Who are our best 3 and worst 3 Taoiseach ever?

Reality_Check1

list to choose from:

WT Cosgrave
Éamon de Valera
John A. Costello
Seán Lemass
Jack Lynch
Liam Cosgrave
Charles Haughey
Garret FitzGerald
Albert Reynolds
John Bruton
Bertie Ahern
Brian Cowen
Enda Kenny

The Backwards Man

Best.

Fitzgerald
Liam Cosgrave
Kenny

Worst.
De Valera
Haughey
Ahern


*I'm not a FG supporter, I swear.

Dave!

Merkel


Someone was going to post that, it might as well be me...

Best: Costello, Lemass, Fitzgerald

Worst: de Valera, Reynolds, Cowen

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Best: Lemass
Ok ish :Fitzgerald

The rest were or are either corrupt, inept, or semi-dictators.

jim_jones

well we haven't had one real good one yet but in a case of least worse

1 . Cosgrave ( the first one )
2. lemass
3. Kenny

worst

1 . cowen
2 . aherne
3 . jack lynch

Howard Juneau

They're all barstewards who deserve to be dipped in shìt, burned at the stake & their ashes force fed to the rest of those useless knobs in the dáil

Mr.Micro

The worst


Haughey, De Valera, Ahern and Cowen, all equally the worst.



Kenny is doing OK IMO, a tough job, so too early to rate him.

Hedgemeister

Albert couldn't remember his own name (allegedly) when asked to give evidence in the High Court, but wrote his life story a few weeks later!
You couldn't make it up!

tayto lover

Haughey.
Aherne.
Cowan.

All the above ruined the country and had very dubious incomes and properties.

As for Kenny being mentioned as one of the best ..... ha ha ha refer to recent referendum.

FloatingVoter

Best
Dev (I lump him rather than like him but he was genuine)
Lemass (rebelled against the above and was undermined by the criminal Haughey).
Reynolds (starts the Peace process along with the equally under-rated John Major)
Honourable Mention : Garret the Good - just not cut out for politics


Worst
Haughey - a criminal and a thief.
Bertie Ahern - a criminal and a thief. Sue me and show me the dockets of the winning horses while you do, Bert.
Brian Cowen - a small town accountant - you don't belong with the other pair but your predecessor put you there.

Don't Know
WT Cosgrave
John A. Costello

The rest are non-entities who won't even make footnotes.

Riddle101

Best: WT Cosgrave and Sean Lemass

Worst: Charles Haughey and Bertie Aherne

K-9

Best:
1. Lemass
2. Bruton
3. WT Cosgrave

Lemass had a lot of luck on his side and in many ways was the right man at the right time, Bruton similar.

Worst:
1. Aherne
2. Cowen
3. Liam Cosgrave

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Don't Know
WT Cosgrave
John A. Costello

The rest are non-entities who won't even make footnotes.

WT Cosgrave helped establish the state which was no mean feat, the main criticism seems to be conservative values and influence of the Church. Hard to know about Costello, 2 fractious Governments and he did bow to the Church in the Mother and child scheme, but on his side he appointed Whittaker as head of the Dept. of Finance and the start of the economic plans, which Lemass benefitted from.

hansfrei

I'm thinking none of them are as bad as O'Bama.

Cody Pomeray

3 best

Éamon de Valera
Charles Haughey
Garret FitzGerald

3 worst

Éamon de Valera
Charles Haughey
Garret FitzGerald

The rest were pure filler.

people think cosgrave was a good leader? wt..f?

TeddyTedson

1. Lemass (Although wasn't it the sectary of the Department of Finance that had a lot to do with the IDA.
2. Cosgrave
3. Jack Lynch


1. Cowen
2. BBertie
3. DeValera

Santa Cruz

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Best.

Fitzgerald
Liam Cosgrave
Kenny

Worst.
De Valera
Haughey
Ahern


*I'm not a FG supporter, I swear.

Fitzgerald, Loans wiped out by his pals in Allied Irish Banks. Anyone else and the media would have hung them out.
Kenny YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

Liam Cosgrave OK He did what it says on the tin.


Anyone who nominates De Valera obviously have never read history and are relying on stereotype.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Fitzgerald, Loans wiped out by his pals in Allied Irish Banks. Anyone else and the media would have hung them out.
Kenny YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

Liam Cosgrave OK He did what it says on the tin.


Anyone who nominates De Valera obviously have never read history and are relying on stereotype.

The tin must have said set up a police state and suspend human and civil rights!

FloatingVoter

TeddyTedson wrote: »

1. Lemass (Although wasn't it the sectary of the Department of Finance that had a lot to do with the IDA.

TK Whitaker - still with us at nearly 100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._K._Whitaker). Basically a founding father of some of the good bits of modern Ireland.

jjbrien

Best

Fitzgerald
Bruton
Lemass

If I had an option id put Michael Collins but her never made it that far but without him we would still be in the UK today

Worst
Dev
Bertie (A nice guy but enjoyed the good life too much and didnt run the country)
Cowen

irishfeen

Best:

Lemass- FF
Fitzgearld - FG
Lynch - FF


Worst:
Haughey (Corrupt Bastard) - FF
Ahern (Corrupt Bastard) - FF
DeValera (His heart was in the right place but as a leader kicking on from partition he was a failure and made the country very backward) - FF

padd b1975

Best.

Lemass.

Fitzgerald.

Kenny.


Worst.

Cowen.

Bertie.

Haughey.



Best Taoiseach we never had- Donogh O' Malley.

onemorechance

K-9 wrote: »

Best:
1. Lemass
2. Bruton
3. WT Cosgrave

Lemass had a lot of luck on his side and in many ways was the right man at the right time, Bruton similar.

Worst:
1. Aherne
2. Cowen
3. Liam Cosgrave

John Bruton is one of the most under-appreciated I think. Fine Gael deposing him with Michael Noonan was one of the worst moves in the history of party politics.

tayto lover

How can anyone put Kenny as a great Taoiseach?

The man wouldn't even debate his own Referendum proposal and is surrounded and protected in order to prevent him making a clown of himself in public.
He is afraid of his life of Vincent Browne too.

Mark Twain

Best:

FitzGerald
Lemass
Bruton

Worst:

Ahern
Lynch
Cowen (more what he did while finance minster than as an ineffectual captain of a sinking ship).

I think the history books are going to look very kindly on Enda Kenny.

Karl Stein

John Bruton?

Seriously?

efb

Lemass best by a country mile.

Reynolds and Fitzgerald after


Worst:

Ahern
Cowen
Bruton

I am divided on Haughey

Eight Ball

Cant really say any have had the nations interest at heart before their own. Ahern and Kenny are joint top for being the worst with Kenny maybe ahead by a nose. It's the fact he's a terrible coward who wont discuss anything that disgusts me.

Karl Stein

Albert Reynolds doesn't get near enough credit for helping to push the Peace Process forward.

irishfeen

efb wrote: »

Lemass best by a country mile.

Reynolds and Fitzgerald after


Worst:

Ahern
Cowen
Bruton

I am divided on Haughey

:eek:

Turpentine

Bertie got to be our worst Taoiseach three times in a row. Does that count.

Santa Cruz

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

The tin must have said set up a police state and suspend human and civil rights!

But made sure that the country wasn't taken over by a crowd of murderers who wouldn't know what human rights are

Santa Cruz

Turpentine wrote: »

Bertie got to be our worst Taoiseach three times in a row. Does that count.

And what does that say for the people who voted him in?

irishfeen

Mark Twain wrote: »

Best:

FitzGerald
Lemass
Bruton

Worst:

Ahern
Lynch
Cowen (more what he did while finance minster than as an ineffectual captain of a sinking ship).

I think the history books are going to look very kindly on Enda Kenny.

Me too but he will have to win a second term to ensure it.

irishfeen

Santa Cruz wrote: »

And what does that say for the people who voted him in?

Gullible fools.

Mark Twain

Mark Twain wrote: »

Best:

FitzGerald
Lemass
Bruton

Worst:

Ahern
Lynch
Cowen (more what he did while finance minster than as an ineffectual captain of a sinking ship).

I think the history books are going to look very kindly on Enda Kenny.

Agreed. Especially if he only does one term as Taoiseach.

Sam Kade

I can't understand why Cowen is getting the rap as gobsh1te Aherne handed his mess over to him.

jjbrien

Charlie Rock wrote: »

John Bruton?

Seriously?

You obliviously dont know that he was the one of the main architects of the good Friday agreement in the north. The video you showed also was a landmark in Irish British relations this was the first visit by a member of the royal family since we gained independence was a major deal at the time and paved the way for the queen to come here 2 years ago.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/the-prince-of-wales/royal-duties/countries-visited

Continued developments in the Northern Ireland peace process and his attitude to Anglo-Irish relations came to define Bruton's tenure as Taoiseach. In February 1995 he launched the Anglo-Irish 'Framework Document' with the British Prime Minister, John Major. This document outlined new proposed relations between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Many of Bruton's opponents considered him to be too willing to accommodate unionist demands (in one famous accusation, Albert Reynolds referred to him as "John Unionist"). However, he took a strongly critical position on the British Government's reluctance to engage with Sinn Féin during the IRA's 1994–1997 ceasefire. Bruton complained to a local radio reporter in Cork that "I am sick of answering questions about the ****ing peace process", for which he later apologised.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bruton#cite_note-10

onemorechance

Charlie Rock wrote: »

John Bruton?

Seriously?

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Albert Reynolds doesn't get near enough credit for helping to push the Peace Process forward.

How can you dismiss John Bruton welcoming the Prince of Wales and helping advance relations between Ireland and Britain as a joke, while saying Albert Reynolds should get more credit for his role in the peace process?

Turpentine

Santa Cruz wrote: »

And what does that say for the people who voted him in?

Communal brain fart? Three times in a row.

Karl Stein

onemorechance wrote: »

How can you dismiss John Bruton welcoming the Prince of Wales and helping advance relations between Ireland and Britain as a joke, while saying Albert Reynolds should get more credit for his role in the peace process?

Many of Bruton's opponents considered him to be too willing to accommodate unionist demands (in one famous accusation, Albert Reynolds referred to him as "John Unionist").

I agree with Reynolds' view as per above. I also find sycophancy over people born into privilege quite stomach churning.

Turpentine

Charlie Rock wrote: »

I agree with Reynolds' view as per above. I also find sycophancy over people born into privilege quite stomach churning.

It's only sycophancy if you're a subject of theirs, otherwise it's just welcoming a foreign dignitary.

Savoir.Faire

I've had an interest in the body politic since I happened to chance upon Garret Fitzgerald signing copies of his book, Reflections on the Irish State in Easons about 10 years ago.

I've read a little on the fractious time in Irish politics when Fitzgerald and Haughey held the reins of power. Fitzgerald was an intellectual of the highest calibre, but not really cut out for the cut and thrust of politics. Like many FG taoisigh, he came into power after the debauched spending orgy of a FF administration. He was the sound and solid pair of hands who wouldn't do anything too stupid.

Haughey was a much more charismatic figure. I've ruminated over this on occasion, and I believe that men like him and Ahern represent a cracked mirror of the broader national psyche. The brigand, cute hoor, wheeler come dealer.

We want the largesse of a good old-fashioned FF rogue, and begrudgingly accept the penance bestowed on us by a FG-Labour government.

onemorechance

Charlie Rock wrote: »

I agree with Reynolds' view as per above. I also find sycophancy over people born into privilege quite stomach churning.

Any Taoiseach of the day would have done the same, although maybe it was a little obsequious.

Karl Stein

Turpentine wrote: »

It's only sycophancy if you're a subject of theirs, otherwise it's just welcoming a foreign dignitary.

You see welcoming I see fawning, slobbering sycophancy.

Turpentine

Charlie Rock wrote: »

You see welcoming I see fawning, slobbering sycophancy.

Well then you're seeing it through your own emotional prism rather than as rational international diplomatic relations.

Karl Stein

Turpentine wrote: »

Well then you're seeing it through your own emotional prism rather than as rational international diplomatic relations.

Compare Bruton's fawning over Charlie to Mary McAleese's welcome of his Ma.

Turpentine

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Compare Bruton's fawning over Charlie to Mary McAleese's welcome of his Ma.

Diplomatic relations.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I ****ing hate bertie, he's a **** and a piece of ****. :mad:

Nothing more to add.

Karl Stein

Turpentine wrote: »

Diplomatic relations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyOZZ4tZzcs

K-9

Charlie Rock wrote: »

John Bruton?

Seriously?

Being one of the best Taoiseach is about a bit more than that, that Government helped create the actual Celtic Tiger. Bruton was lucky in that he inherited an economy that a lot of the hard work was done.

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Albert Reynolds doesn't get near enough credit for helping to push the Peace Process forward.

Shame he threw it all away because of petty spats with O'Malley and then Labour.