Who are our best 3 and worst 3 Taoiseach ever?

Santa Cruz · 10-10-2013 09:18PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

The tin must have said set up a police state and suspend human and civil rights!

But made sure that the country wasn't taken over by a crowd of murderers who wouldn't know what human rights are

Santa Cruz · 10-10-2013 09:18PM

Turpentine wrote: »

Bertie got to be our worst Taoiseach three times in a row. Does that count.

And what does that say for the people who voted him in?

irishfeen · 10-10-2013 09:19PM

Mark Twain wrote: »

Best:

FitzGerald
Lemass
Bruton

Worst:

Ahern
Lynch
Cowen (more what he did while finance minster than as an ineffectual captain of a sinking ship).

I think the history books are going to look very kindly on Enda Kenny.

Me too but he will have to win a second term to ensure it.

irishfeen · 10-10-2013 09:19PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

And what does that say for the people who voted him in?

Gullible fools.

10-10-2013 09:20PM

Mark Twain wrote: »

Best:

FitzGerald
Lemass
Bruton

Worst:

Ahern
Lynch
Cowen (more what he did while finance minster than as an ineffectual captain of a sinking ship).

I think the history books are going to look very kindly on Enda Kenny.

Agreed. Especially if he only does one term as Taoiseach.

Sam Kade · 10-10-2013 09:23PM

I can't understand why Cowen is getting the rap as gobsh1te Aherne handed his mess over to him.

jjbrien · 10-10-2013 09:23PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

John Bruton?

Seriously?

You obliviously dont know that he was the one of the main architects of the good Friday agreement in the north. The video you showed also was a landmark in Irish British relations this was the first visit by a member of the royal family since we gained independence was a major deal at the time and paved the way for the queen to come here 2 years ago.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/the-prince-of-wales/royal-duties/countries-visited

Continued developments in the Northern Ireland peace process and his attitude to Anglo-Irish relations came to define Bruton's tenure as Taoiseach. In February 1995 he launched the Anglo-Irish 'Framework Document' with the British Prime Minister, John Major. This document outlined new proposed relations between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Many of Bruton's opponents considered him to be too willing to accommodate unionist demands (in one famous accusation, Albert Reynolds referred to him as "John Unionist"). However, he took a strongly critical position on the British Government's reluctance to engage with Sinn Féin during the IRA's 1994–1997 ceasefire. Bruton complained to a local radio reporter in Cork that "I am sick of answering questions about the ****ing peace process", for which he later apologised.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bruton#cite_note-10

onemorechance · 10-10-2013 09:23PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

John Bruton?

Seriously?

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Albert Reynolds doesn't get near enough credit for helping to push the Peace Process forward.

How can you dismiss John Bruton welcoming the Prince of Wales and helping advance relations between Ireland and Britain as a joke, while saying Albert Reynolds should get more credit for his role in the peace process?

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 09:24PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

And what does that say for the people who voted him in?

Communal brain fart? Three times in a row.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 09:28PM

onemorechance wrote: »

How can you dismiss John Bruton welcoming the Prince of Wales and helping advance relations between Ireland and Britain as a joke, while saying Albert Reynolds should get more credit for his role in the peace process?

Many of Bruton's opponents considered him to be too willing to accommodate unionist demands (in one famous accusation, Albert Reynolds referred to him as "John Unionist").

I agree with Reynolds' view as per above. I also find sycophancy over people born into privilege quite stomach churning.

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 09:33PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

I agree with Reynolds' view as per above. I also find sycophancy over people born into privilege quite stomach churning.

It's only sycophancy if you're a subject of theirs, otherwise it's just welcoming a foreign dignitary.

Savoir.Faire · 10-10-2013 09:35PM

I've had an interest in the body politic since I happened to chance upon Garret Fitzgerald signing copies of his book, Reflections on the Irish State in Easons about 10 years ago.

I've read a little on the fractious time in Irish politics when Fitzgerald and Haughey held the reins of power. Fitzgerald was an intellectual of the highest calibre, but not really cut out for the cut and thrust of politics. Like many FG taoisigh, he came into power after the debauched spending orgy of a FF administration. He was the sound and solid pair of hands who wouldn't do anything too stupid.

Haughey was a much more charismatic figure. I've ruminated over this on occasion, and I believe that men like him and Ahern represent a cracked mirror of the broader national psyche. The brigand, cute hoor, wheeler come dealer.

We want the largesse of a good old-fashioned FF rogue, and begrudgingly accept the penance bestowed on us by a FG-Labour government.

onemorechance · 10-10-2013 09:36PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

I agree with Reynolds' view as per above. I also find sycophancy over people born into privilege quite stomach churning.

Any Taoiseach of the day would have done the same, although maybe it was a little obsequious.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 09:36PM

Turpentine wrote: »

It's only sycophancy if you're a subject of theirs, otherwise it's just welcoming a foreign dignitary.

You see welcoming I see fawning, slobbering sycophancy.

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 09:39PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

You see welcoming I see fawning, slobbering sycophancy.

Well then you're seeing it through your own emotional prism rather than as rational international diplomatic relations.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 09:42PM

Turpentine wrote: »

Well then you're seeing it through your own emotional prism rather than as rational international diplomatic relations.

Compare Bruton's fawning over Charlie to Mary McAleese's welcome of his Ma.

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 10:07PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Compare Bruton's fawning over Charlie to Mary McAleese's welcome of his Ma.

Diplomatic relations.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 10-10-2013 10:16PM

I ****ing hate bertie, he's a **** and a piece of ****. :mad:

Nothing more to add.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 10:16PM

Turpentine wrote: »

Diplomatic relations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyOZZ4tZzcs

K-9 · 10-10-2013 10:17PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

John Bruton?

Seriously?

Being one of the best Taoiseach is about a bit more than that, that Government helped create the actual Celtic Tiger. Bruton was lucky in that he inherited an economy that a lot of the hard work was done.

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Albert Reynolds doesn't get near enough credit for helping to push the Peace Process forward.

Shame he threw it all away because of petty spats with O'Malley and then Labour.

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 10:33PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyOZZ4tZzcs

Hah! Martin Riggs for Taoiseach, sugartits.

In fairness though, diplomacy is diplomacy, Bruton was dealing with the first visit of a British monarch since Irish independence. It was a pretty significant symbolic gesture. They may not be voted in at home, but they're still foreign dignitaries to us, and a British royal visit at the time was a significant gesture of reconciliation.

efb · 10-10-2013 10:37PM

irishfeen wrote: »

:eek:

IFSC and other economic policies

The_Kew_Tour · 10-10-2013 10:38PM

Jack Lynch

The Real Taoiseach

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 10:41PM

Turpentine wrote: »

In fairness though, diplomacy is diplomacy, Bruton was dealing with the first visit of a British monarch since Irish independence.

Fair enough. I'll admit I'm biased because I tend to judge former Teeshucks on their work towards ending the troubles and I found JB a little to.. em... pro-British/Unionist.

Mark Twain · 10-10-2013 10:43PM

The usual shower of Shinnerbots descending on the thread and strangling the life out of the place.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 10:45PM

Mark Twain wrote: »

The usual shower of Shinnerbots descending on the thread and strangling the life out of the place.

Oh look, an anti-Nationalist/Republican.

What a surprise.

:yawn:

jjbrien · 10-10-2013 10:48PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Fair enough. I'll admit I'm biased because I tend to judge former Teeshucks on their work towards ending the troubles and I found JB a little to.. em... pro-British/Unionist.

Well he needed to be as how would you get Ian Paisley or the ulster unionists to agree on the good Friday agreement. He is responsible however for getting us to take the territorial claim over the north out of the constitution but saying the that we claim the north as part of the republic wouldn't wash with the unionists and helped a great deal with our relationship with the UK.

The Uk is our biggest partner we need them and they need us so what Bruton did helped us a lot.

His government was also the first government to run a surplus and started off the Celtic tiger. If FF had just kept doing what his government was doing and not went mad over property or handing out them special savings accounts we would not be in the mess we are today. Also his goverment was the one who brought in the 12.5% tax rate and free 3rd level education.

SimonLynch · 10-10-2013 10:56PM

Sorry to be pedantic but isn't the plural of Taoiseach Taoisigh or something such like? (D Leaving Cert Gaeilge 1983).

tayto lover · 10-10-2013 10:58PM

jjbrien wrote: »

Well he needed to be as how would you get Ian Paisley or the ulster unionists to agree on the good Friday agreement. He is responsible however for getting us to take the territorial claim over the north out of the constitution but saying the that we claim the north as part of the republic wouldn't wash with the unionists and helped a great deal with our relationship with the UK.

The Uk is our biggest partner we need them and they need us so what Bruton did helped us a lot.

His government was also the first government to run a surplus and started off the Celtic tiger. If FF had just kept doing what his government was doing and not went mad over property or handing out them special savings accounts we would not be in the mess we are today. Also his goverment was the one who brought in the 12.5% tax rate and free 3rd level education.

"jjbrien has received a gratuity for his part in this Fine Gael advert".

Stained Class · 10-10-2013 11:01PM

SimonLynch wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic but isn't the plural of Taoiseach Taoisigh or something such like? (D Leaving Cert Gaeilge 1983).

No, it's Teashops.

Who are our best 3 and worst 3 Taoiseach ever?

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