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Postcode system predictions

12467

Comments

  • #92
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Knowing this government it will be something long winded and utterly pointless...


  • #93
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Add a geographical code like GPS to your address.

    It's a little more work for you.

    Where would he enter that on most online forms?


  • #94
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,307 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    Why do we need to change something that obviously works quite well?

    It doesn't. It's embarrassingly sh1t.
    If they go forward with this I hope they stick to just 3 letter codes....and something that makes sense.

    Huh? Will that narrow it down? That's the idea of postcodes.


  • #95
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    cerastes wrote: »
    how come the UK manages with 6 characters and we need 8?
    or is the new system something else
    Actually, quite a few places in the UK use 7 characters. :)
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    It's been done to death in other threads

    1. Courier services are begging. In the sense that they want something for nothing. If they shared addresses with each other they could have already have it sorted by now. But it's like a lobster pot nobody wants anyone to have any benefit.

    2. Like I said emergency services can get mobile phone locations from the masts. Or tie AnPost database into emergency services - not rocket science.

    3. Have you heard of the post code lottery ? Everything from the amount of Junk Mail you get to Car Insurance prices will depend on your post code.

    Mobile phone signals are not a reliable indicator. Even here in England where many boardsies think everything is better, I have a friend who cannot get a mobile signal at home no matter what network he is on. Without a postcode he would be fooked if the emergency services were relying on mobile signals.

    Postcodes are extremely valuable and anyone arguing otherwise really doesn't get it.


  • #96
    MBSnr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    Last time I checked I could post a letter to another address in Ireland and it will arrive 1-2 days later.

    Why do we need to change something that obviously works quite well?

    Also...by adding convoluted postcodes that are impossible to remember, it will deter people from using the postal system. I actively avoid sending anything by post to my sister who lives in the UK. Although I can easily remember the house number, street name, city and count, I can never ever remember that damn postal code. It's too much hassle.

    If they go forward with this I hope they stick to just 3 letter codes....and something that makes sense.

    This isn't quite about An Post! Think about the bigger picture. They KNOW where I live without postcodes. But NO ONE else does. See? I have to talk to courier drivers regularly as they cannot find my work office. Also our office address differs from the company's address on the floor above.. Go figure - we get specific permises location based postcodes - resolved for everyone.

    Using 3 letters is pointless. AS I said most rural houses do not have names/numbers or other specific location data. A 3 letter postcode with numbers like the UK won't work unless the houses are numbered which they are not! A GPS system is the only one they should use. If they aren't then they shouldn't bother.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Add a geographical code like GPS to your address.

    It's a little more work for you.

    Or you could insist that the vast majority of us have to go through the hassle of postcodes

    And you'd still have to add a geographical code to your address anyway, so actually it's no extra work for you. It's just extra hassle for the rest of us.

    Really what are you talking about? Work for me? Hassle for you? No extra work for me? Extra hassle for you? :confused:


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  • #97
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    MadsL wrote: »
    Where would he enter that on most online forms?
    on the last line of the address field


    it's like writing "For Collection" or "c/o" or other stuff that people already do


    So the reason we need postcodes is
    - emergency services can locate us, even though eircom already know where almost all the phone lines go for those that don't use mobiles
    - allow couriers to locate addresses, even though there are usually two or three lines to enter text (UK forms are even worse)


    - some people will benefit from the postcode lottery (but there will be just as many losers)

    Like all the recent charges for bins, water, the necessity to get registered (ie went on a course) tradesmen for gas, electricity and probably plumbing soon, BER certs etc etc. there have been a lot of little hidden charges that make life more expensive over the past few years. If anyone mentions safety then wtf weren't they applied during the boom ??

    I can't see the benefits of postcodes except to pigeon hole people.


  • #98
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    Actually, quite a few places in the UK use 7 characters. :)
    And some use as few as 5.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    - some people will benefit from the postcode lottery (but there will be just as many losers)
    No change from what occurs at the present. Lots of areas in the country are worse off than more privileged ones - even within the same local council area. At least it might highlight where those areas are and how the councils are failing
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    I can't see the benefits of postcodes except to pigeon hole people.
    Out of interest, do you feel the same about census data? Having well defined area and road boundaries can have other applications, such as in urban planning.

    Anyway with the current system you can end up having to disseminate more information than you would with a postcode/house number. "...No, the other end of the road you're on - a couple of kms away....the one with the red door, just past the Spar on the left hand side..."


  • #99
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    sorry I should have said pigeonhole people so they can be exploited by marketing droids and worse


  • #100
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    sorry I should have said pigeonhole people so they can be exploited by marketing droids and worse
    Can't say I've noticed any difference between the UK and Ireland, oh other than getting junk mail from eircom and UPC trying to sell me services not available in my area. Yes the same eircom that apparently have knowledge of every single copper line in the country :rolleyes:


  • #101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Can't say I've noticed any difference between the UK and Ireland, oh other than getting junk mail from eircom and UPC trying to sell me services not available in my area. Yes the same eircom that apparently have knowledge of every single copper line in the country :rolleyes:
    Much of the junk mail is just shoved in with the post as an unaddressed leaflet, unless it's addressed to you of course then Eircom should know better.


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  • #102
    clearz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭clearz


    It will be a sha512 hash of your current address. If you have multiple ways of writing your address then you will need to hash each and then concatenate the lot together. This should then be written as a hexadecimal string underneath your normal address.


  • #103
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    clearz wrote: »
    It will be a sha512 hash of your current address. If you have multiple ways of writing your address then you will need to hash each and then concatenate the lot together. This should then be written as a hexadecimal string underneath your normal address.

    What about when a new version of SHA comes out? Do they upgrade to the new version?


  • #104
    clearz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭clearz


    Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »
    What about when a new version of SHA comes out? Do they upgrade to the new version?

    Of course they will, knowing the mass hysteria that would take place over privacy issues with people thinking that the hash could be reversed giving the original address.

    On a more serious note. I would use gps coordinates in base 36. This woulld provide an 8 character alphanumeric string unique to each abode. Of course this could be reduced to 6 characters if only the area is needed.


  • #105
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Fox_In_Socks wrote: »
    I agree wholeheartedly with you.





    -Fox_In_Socks,
    The Three Cornered Field,
    Up pasht Patsy Ted Michaels,
    "Black Pudding Lane"
    Tuornafalla,
    Co Kilimericky

    Gobnait O Lunacy
    2nd Mucky Passage on the left
    Knocknasnot
    Co Cabbage


  • #106
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    USA uses 5 digits for 303 million people so we only need 2 or 3 digits.

    So Dublin City is already sorted.

    The 5 digit zip codes still need the address. For full accuracy, they have 9 digit codes. So I think we need a 15 character alphanumeric code.


  • #107
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    http://www.osi.ie/calculators/converter_index.asp


  • #108
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    The British system or any similar alphanumeric system would probably be best (and likely cheaper to license).

    Two main criteria for any system

    1) Accuracy (to street level at least)
    2) Ease of use. 7 digits/letters is about the maximum for any system.

    One potential problem with using letters in any system is that they can often be mistaken more frequently than numbers (n and m for example), but there's 26 of them which makes it easier to encode more locations.

    Alas knowing our politicians it'll be unwieldy, illogical and no better than the current vague Dublin postcodes. Plus I imagine any system will bend over backwards to incorporate the D4 and D6W :rolleyes: postcode snobs or those with stupid house names instead of numbers.

    For the UK postcode to work -every property needs a property number!
    Expensive database also needed
    UK Postcode is a 1950's pre GPS, GIS, Smartphone, PC and Google technology - not as good as you think;- have a read here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84689595&postcount=1250


  • #109
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/postcodes-introduced-ireland-1098475-Sep2013/

    What system do you think will be picked?

    OpenPostCode? Loc8? A property tax based one? The An Post proprietary system?

    This is a common misconception - there is no competition to design a postcode - just one to find an organisation to implement the code recommended by the National Postcode Board in 2006.

    What is to be impemented is the "ABC 123" Code which based on An Post sorting operations;- where ABC is the post town (not related to actual geographic location of a property - just where mailis sorted) - eg D04 or GAL and the "123" is the postal route.

    This effectively is the UK postcode (an analogue system with issues mentioned earlier) but without the necessary property numbers to make it work. And it was desgned pre Google, SatNavs and Smartphones so it is very old technology!

    There is no competition to design a postcode so the options mentioned above are NOT being considered at all!

    Finally, Minister Rabbitte's deadline for a decision before end September last has now passed, and yet again, without comment. This is the 5th deadline missed since 2008 and it now makes the tender to find the implementer the longest running tender competition ever - almost 3 years ongoing!

    For the record, the current proposals for a postcode in Ireland started 10 years ago - so don't expect anything soon!


  • #110
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    aimhigh wrote: »
    This is a common misconception - there is no competition to design a postcode - just one to find an organisation to implement the code recommended by the National Postcode Board in 2006.

    What is to be impemented is the "ABC 123" Code which based on An Post sorting operations;- where ABC is the post town (not related to actual geographic location of a property - just where mailis sorted) - eg D04 or GAL and the "123" is the postal route.

    This effectively is the UK postcode (an analogue system with issues mentioned earlier) but without the necessary property numbers to make it work. And it was desgned pre Google, SatNavs and Smartphones so it is very old technology!

    There is no competition to design a postcode so the options mentioned above are NOT being considered at all!

    Finally, Minister Rabbitte's deadline for a decision before end September last has now passed, and yet again, without comment. This is the 5th deadline missed since 2008 and it now makes the tender to find the implementer the longest running tender competition ever - almost 3 years ongoing!

    For the record, the current proposals for a postcode in Ireland started 10 years ago - so don't expect anything soon!

    Great post.

    What a truly truly stupid decision. Why on earth would they not choose a SatNav based system. :confused:


  • #111
    SmilingLurker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭SmilingLurker


    I would say they will use the geo areas used for the property tax. The codes will be as close to townland areas, with relative numbering.

    They should use geo co ordinates of a point e.g entrance to a building. I hope they do not use Irish grid.

    Reasons for delay would be postal union objections (speculation, no evidence to support this). People also in transition areas do not like sharing parts of their codes with other areas.


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  • #112
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    SmilingLurker wrote: »
    I would say they will use the geo areas used for the property tax. The codes will be as close to townland areas, with relative numbering.

    They should use geo co ordinates of a point e.g entrance to a building. I hope they do not use Irish grid.

    Reasons for delay would be postal union objections (speculation, no evidence to support this). People also in transition areas do not like sharing parts of their codes with other areas.

    Please read my previous comment - they will be using ABC 123 - the current tender competiion (3 years old) is to implemnet that model. There are no other choices!

    The ABC Model was chosen in 2006 after the Data Commissioner decided that a postcode that indentified individual properties would be a potential invasion of privacy! For that reason all other options were dropped and never considered again!

    No point in any more speculation - these are the facts!


  • #113
    Leonard Shelby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Leonard Shelby


    aimhigh wrote: »
    Please read my previous comment - they will be using ABC 123 - the current tender competiion (3 years old) is to implemnet that model. There are no other choices!

    The ABC Model was chosen in 2006 after the Data Commissioner decided that a postcode that indentified individual properties would be a potential invasion of privacy! For that reason all other options were dropped and never considered again!

    No point in any more speculation - these are the facts!

    This thread was started to ask people to speculate, as none of us know what the final postcode model will be. Based on the recent press speculation I'm expecting a postcode for each individual address. How can you say that "all other options were dropped and never considered again" for a fact? That's quite a "hostage to fortune" you've set up. You might be right, you might be wrong, but please allow for the fact that sometimes when you AIM HIGH you miss the target...


  • #114
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭paulbok


    MadsL wrote: »
    Great post.

    What a truly truly stupid decision. Why on earth would they not choose a SatNav based system. :confused:

    Any post code system can be give to sat nav manufaturers/ map producers and issued in their next update.

    Some on here want a co-ord system to be used, if people think a 6/7 alphanumeris code will be hard to deal with what makes a twice by 8 digit sat nav co-ord easier?

    I work in a company that uses a major international courier to deliver packages to all over Ireland and there is very rarely problems with deliveries in the North of Ireland as they have postcodes. There are regular problems with deliveries in the south as there are many counties with the same town/townland names and neighbouring address can look very different depending on who writes them out. Thats before a courier has to find some remote boreen in the country.
    Even in Dublin there are postal issues, we regurally receive post for a neighbouring company and the address they use (or get set to) looks a lot different at a glance to ours.
    I have also used the NI postcodes on a satnav many times to find clients in rural & urban locations and haven't had any problems. I have had lot's of problems in the sRepublic finding locations based on an address. Industrial estates are particurally difficult as maps will often have every road in it with the same name and the unit numbering in the estates often leave a lot to be desired.

    If whatever system chosen doesn't follow a similiar design as other countries use, then it will be a nightmare when trying to order online and try to enter a postcode that the form can't handle (ever try using a UK or USA site that insists on a post/zip code and checks your address against whatever you enter?).

    For the emergency services, mobile phone locations, ignoring the data protection issues, are not a runner for the simple reason that not everyone will have one on them or have a signal/battery when needed and would only have the alternative of using a landline. So they need to be able to give their address, and a postcode will eliminate the need for longwinded and misleading directions.
    Think directions are fine? get a few of your friends to write out directions from 2 awkward to get to places a few miles apart you all know and see the differences in them.


  • #115
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    Leonard Shelby wrote: »
    This thread was started to ask people to speculate, as none of us know what the final postcode model will be. Based on the recent press speculation I'm expecting a postcode for each individual address. How can you say that "all other options were dropped and never considered again" for a fact? That's quite a "hostage to fortune" you've set up. You might be right, you might be wrong, but please allow for the fact that sometimes when you AIM HIGH you miss the target...

    Sorry for stopping your speculative fun but this has been gone through so many times here and other forums ad infinitum. There are well documented facts to work from!

    There is a tender process running since Jan 2011. That process is to select a Postacode Management Licenese Holder - i.e someone to implement the postcode and manage it for 10 years! The postcode specified for implementation is that as contained in the recommendations of the National Post Code Board in their report of 2006;- they recommended ABC 123 and this is specifically mentioned in the tender document!

    The tender process has not met its deadlines - award of the contract is now 25 months beyond deadline but 3 potential suppliers to implement the ABC 123 postcode have been selected and the process has not been terminated. An Post is one of the preferred suppliers. The Minister frequently refers to the "ongoing" tender in his Dail statements and uses it as a reason why he cannot discuss the details of what exactly is happening.

    That all being the case then, only ABC 123 is on the table and all other options were discarded in the 2006 report as a result of the Data Commissioner's judgement. It was suggested recently that the same Data Commissioner has not since changed his judgement. So nothing to speculate about really except when it might possibly happen!

    It's all in the public domain and here on the Dept Of Communications website if you want to read it:
    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Postal/Postcodes.htm

    To change any of the above and consider any other options, the following would have to happen:

    1. Cancel the tender currennt process (not without issues!)
    2. Establish an independent National Address Agency which will take responsibility for specifications and controlling address creation, structure and maintenance in Ireland henceforth, with public safety as a major consideration.
    3. Revisit the 2006 report and reconsider all the other options and make a new final report
    4. Revisit the cost benefit analysis and consider the wider benefits of a postcode including he benefits to public safety!
    5. Have the Data Commissioner change his judgment or introduce legislation to remove the problem
    6. Change the Postal Act to allow for a precise postcode (currently only allows for a "locality" postcode - and a locality for the recent property tax in the Revenue Commissioners website mapping contained hundreds of properties)
    7. Revisit the liberalisation of the postal market and liberalise An Post's Geodirectory as well. Or at least introduce legislation, as is the case for the equivalanet (PAF) in the UK, to ensure that the Geodirectory must be made available to all who want to use it and at a reasonable price. This to ensure that whoever gets the contract has guaranteed access to it without restrictions which may otherwise dictate that only An Post could get the contract!
    8. Start a new tender process but not for implementation - to select a postcode design first and then run a seperate process afterwards to select those who will implement it and manage it (independent of An Post)

    Then all options can be freely and openly considered and the best for the country and all possible users selected!

    But this has gone on for 10 years now, so if there were to be speculation it might be about how to get the Minister to make up his mind and get on with it!


  • #116
    Leonard Shelby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Leonard Shelby


    aimhigh wrote: »
    Sorry for stopping your speculative fun but this has been gone through so many times here and other forums ad infinitum. There are well documented facts to work from!

    There is a tender process running since Jan 2011. That process is to select a Postacode Management Licenese Holder - i.e someone to implement the postcode and manage it for 10 years! The postcode specified for implementation is that as contained in the recommendations of the National Post Code Board in their report of 2006;- they recommended ABC 123 and this is specifically mentioned in the tender document!

    The tender process has not met its deadlines - award of the contract is now 25 months beyond deadline but 3 potential suppliers to implement the ABC 123 postcode have been selected and the process has not been terminated. An Post is one of the preferred suppliers. The Minister frequently refers to the "ongoing" tender in his Dail statements and uses it as a reason why he cannot discuss the details of what exactly is happening.

    That all being the case then, only ABC 123 is on the table and all other options were discarded in the 2006 report as a result of the Data Commissioner's judgement. It was suggested recently that the same Data Commissioner has not since changed his judgement. So nothing to speculate about really except when it might possibly happen!

    It's all in the public domain and here on the Dept Of Communications website if you want to read it:
    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Postal/Postcodes.htm

    To change any of the above and consider any other options, the following would have to happen:

    1. Cancel the tender currennt process (not without issues!)
    2. Establish an independent National Address Agency which will take responsibility for specifications and controlling address creation, structure and maintenance in Ireland henceforth, with public safety as a major consideration.
    3. Revisit the 2006 report and reconsider all the other options and make a new final report
    4. Revisit the cost benefit analysis and consider the wider benefits of a postcode including he benefits to public safety!
    5. Have the Data Commissioner change his judgment or introduce legislation to remove the problem
    6. Change the Postal Act to allow for a precise postcode (currently only allows for a "locality" postcode - and a locality for the recent property tax in the Revenue Commissioners website mapping contained hundreds of properties)
    7. Revisit the liberalisation of the postal market and liberalise An Post's Geodirectory as well. Or at least introduce legislation, as is the case for the equivalanet (PAF) in the UK, to ensure that the Geodirectory must be made available to all who want to use it and at a reasonable price. This to ensure that whoever gets the contract has guaranteed access to it without restrictions which may otherwise dictate that only An Post could get the contract!
    8. Start a new tender process but not for implementation - to select a postcode design first and then run a seperate process afterwards to select those who will implement it and manage it (independent of An Post)

    Then all options can be freely and openly considered and the best for the country and all possible users selected!

    But this has gone on for 10 years now, so if there were to be speculation it might be about how to get the Minister to make up his mind and get on with it!

    Ok, I gather from "this is specifically mentioned in the tender document" that you've seen the final tender document, in which case you're not speculating.


  • #117
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    Leonard Shelby wrote: »
    Ok, I gather from "this is specifically mentioned in the tender document" that you've seen the final tender document, in which case you're not speculating.

    Sure the tender specification was open for anyone to see and may still be available at etenders (Jan2011) - it's not a secret!

    Anyhow at the link I gave to Dept Of Communications website you will see it also clearly stated there. Here you go again:
    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communicatio.../Postcodes.htm

    There are no secrets here;- it's all in the public domain

    As I said, the only room for speculation is when it might happen. Earlier in the summer, when put under pressure on the topic, the Minister stated that there would be a decision on who was doing the job by the end of September but as we can see that has not happened. However, the first deadline was set for Jan 2008 and we have had many missed deadlines since then.


  • #118
    Leonard Shelby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Leonard Shelby


    aimhigh wrote: »
    Sure the tender specification was open for anyone to see and may still be available at etenders (Jan2011) - it's not a secret!

    Anyhow at the link I gave to Dept Of Communications website you will see it also clearly stated there. Here you go again:
    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communicatio.../Postcodes.htm

    There are no secrets here;- it's all in the public domain

    As I said, the only room for speculation is when it might happen. Earlier in the summer, when put under pressure on the topic, the Minister stated that there would be a decision on who was doing the job by the end of September but as we can see that has not happened. However, the first deadline was set for Jan 2008 and we have had many missed deadlines since then.

    So you haven't seen the final tender. I had a look at that URL and I don't think you've read it properly. In the document they clearly state that there will be a Dialogue Stage and at the end of this

    "Once Candidates solutions have been sufficiently developed, DCENR will close the dialogue stage and issue Candidates with an Invitation to Submit Final Tenders (ITSFT) which will contain updates following the dialogue stage (e.g. updated statement of requirements, contract) and which will be evaluated using the award criteria to identify a preferred Candidate."

    This means that the final tender could be changed. Based on the recent speculation in the press about individual postcodes I think its unwise to assume that nothing has changed. I would respectfully suggest that you are speculating as much as the rest of us. We'll know when the Government gets around to telling us, I don't suppose that will be before the budget, maybe next year.


  • #119
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    Leonard Shelby wrote: »
    So you haven't seen the final tender. I had a look at that URL and I don't think you've read it properly. In the document they clearly state that there will be a Dialogue Stage and at the end of this

    "Once Candidates solutions have been sufficiently developed, DCENR will close the dialogue stage and issue Candidates with an Invitation to Submit Final Tenders (ITSFT) which will contain updates following the dialogue stage (e.g. updated statement of requirements, contract) and which will be evaluated using the award criteria to identify a preferred Candidate."

    This means that the final tender could be changed. Based on the recent speculation in the press about individual postcodes I think its unwise to assume that nothing has changed. I would respectfully suggest that you are speculating as much as the rest of us. We'll know when the Government gets around to telling us, I don't suppose that will be before the budget, maybe next year.

    I think you misunderstand. A qualification tender was issued in Jan 2011 with the material requirements of ABC 123 being those as stated on the website you just read, in all media reports at time and since and in related references in the Dail. It is stated in the context that that is what is recommended in the 2006 report (website you just read) and the qualification tender was to implement as recommedended in the 2006 report.

    Now again there can be no speculation here (seen as it seems you like to do so). If the material specifications of the qualification tender were to change during the process then that fact in itself would render the tender and any conclusion invalid. Why?.... because the initial specification will naturally eliminate some potential suppliers who will opt out as they cannot or will not supply as required. If subsequently, the specification changes, then those who had opted out because of the original requirements will have been unfairly descriminated against! This is well covered in Irish and EU tender Law!

    So rather than proport to speculate (Columbo), I think you should accept what you see in front of you, especially from the horse's mouth itself;- the Department of Communications website (they are responsible for this after all!)

    Furthermore, as I said earlier, there is the matter of the Data Commissioners Judgement (see 2006 report - its in there)

    A joint Oireachtas committee report in 2010 asked the Data Commissioner to justify the legality of that and he never did. Dont forget that it was on that basis that all other options were discounted from consideration in the 2006 report and therefore excluded from the qualification tender!
    I have sighted (not in public domain but you can write to him and ask yourself), a recent letter from the Data Commissioner's Office which confirms that his judgement of 2006 has not changed. This means that no matter what way you speculate/justify or what dialogue takes place or has taken place, as it stands, a postcode cannot identify an individual property! This is backed up by the new postal legislation which as I said earlier defines a postcode as a "locality"!

    So what does all this mean Mr Detective?

    It means that the ever ongoing process is to select a postcode management license holder to implement ABC 123 and manage it for 10 years and nothing else! The dialogue is there to allow for the 3 preferred suppliers to collaborate and possibly form a consortium to deliver as required! Above all it allows for agreement as to how An Post will be compensated for the use of the Geodirectory and for them to dictate their pole position as a result! Nobody could deliver ABC 123 (based on An Post operations) without use of Geodirectory and without An Post being directly and substantially involved!

    If you wish to change that, then my earlier list of 8 steps (at least) would have to be applied.


  • #120
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    aimhigh wrote: »
    For the UK postcode to work -every property needs a property number!
    Expensive database also needed
    UK Postcode is a 1950's pre GPS, GIS, Smartphone, PC and Google technology - not as good as you think;- have a read here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84689595&postcount=1250
    Which was why I argued that property names should be abolished and mandatory numbering should be implemented - you can keep your stupid little Rivendell plaque outside, but the property should have an assigned number.

    I never claimed the UK system was perfect, but it is pretty damn good and works well today for a 1950s system. Certainly better than many other countries.


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  • #121
    aimhigh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭aimhigh


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Which was why I argued that property names should be abolished and mandatory numbering should be implemented - you can keep your stupid little Rivendell plaque outside, but the property should have an assigned number.

    I never claimed the UK system was perfect, but it is pretty damn good and works well today for a 1950s system. Certainly better than many other countries.

    Except in Rural UK!

    And rural (non urban) Ireland is a significantly bigger proportion of Ireland!

    Efforts in rural UK to impose numbers and keep people using them have been less than successful! Northern Ireland is a case in point. Did you read all the link I gave with that post it gives examples to back up my argument?

    Most who quote UK postcodes as a shining example only have experience in cities!


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