Capt'n Midnight wrote: » Add a geographical code like GPS to your address. It's a little more work for you.
CrazyRabbit wrote: » Why do we need to change something that obviously works quite well?
If they go forward with this I hope they stick to just 3 letter codes....and something that makes sense.
cerastes wrote: » how come the UK manages with 6 characters and we need 8? or is the new system something else
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » It's been done to death in other threads 1. Courier services are begging. In the sense that they want something for nothing. If they shared addresses with each other they could have already have it sorted by now. But it's like a lobster pot nobody wants anyone to have any benefit. 2. Like I said emergency services can get mobile phone locations from the masts. Or tie AnPost database into emergency services - not rocket science. 3. Have you heard of the post code lottery ? Everything from the amount of Junk Mail you get to Car Insurance prices will depend on your post code.
CrazyRabbit wrote: » Last time I checked I could post a letter to another address in Ireland and it will arrive 1-2 days later. Why do we need to change something that obviously works quite well? Also...by adding convoluted postcodes that are impossible to remember, it will deter people from using the postal system. I actively avoid sending anything by post to my sister who lives in the UK. Although I can easily remember the house number, street name, city and count, I can never ever remember that damn postal code. It's too much hassle. If they go forward with this I hope they stick to just 3 letter codes....and something that makes sense.
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » Add a geographical code like GPS to your address. It's a little more work for you. Or you could insist that the vast majority of us have to go through the hassle of postcodes And you'd still have to add a geographical code to your address anyway, so actually it's no extra work for you. It's just extra hassle for the rest of us.
MadsL wrote: » Where would he enter that on most online forms?
r3nu4l wrote: » Actually, quite a few places in the UK use 7 characters.
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » - some people will benefit from the postcode lottery (but there will be just as many losers)
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » I can't see the benefits of postcodes except to pigeon hole people.
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » sorry I should have said pigeonhole people so they can be exploited by marketing droids and worse
Jimoslimos wrote: » Can't say I've noticed any difference between the UK and Ireland, oh other than getting junk mail from eircom and UPC trying to sell me services not available in my area. Yes the same eircom that apparently have knowledge of every single copper line in the country :rolleyes:
clearz wrote: » It will be a sha512 hash of your current address. If you have multiple ways of writing your address then you will need to hash each and then concatenate the lot together. This should then be written as a hexadecimal string underneath your normal address.
Sh1tbag OToole wrote: » What about when a new version of SHA comes out? Do they upgrade to the new version?
Fox_In_Socks wrote: » I agree wholeheartedly with you. -Fox_In_Socks, The Three Cornered Field, Up pasht Patsy Ted Michaels, "Black Pudding Lane" Tuornafalla, Co Kilimericky
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » USA uses 5 digits for 303 million people so we only need 2 or 3 digits. So Dublin City is already sorted.
Jimoslimos wrote: » The British system or any similar alphanumeric system would probably be best (and likely cheaper to license). Two main criteria for any system 1) Accuracy (to street level at least) 2) Ease of use. 7 digits/letters is about the maximum for any system. One potential problem with using letters in any system is that they can often be mistaken more frequently than numbers (n and m for example), but there's 26 of them which makes it easier to encode more locations. Alas knowing our politicians it'll be unwieldy, illogical and no better than the current vague Dublin postcodes. Plus I imagine any system will bend over backwards to incorporate the D4 and D6W :rolleyes: postcode snobs or those with stupid house names instead of numbers.
MadsL wrote: » http://www.thejournal.ie/postcodes-introduced-ireland-1098475-Sep2013/ What system do you think will be picked? OpenPostCode? Loc8? A property tax based one? The An Post proprietary system?
aimhigh wrote: » This is a common misconception - there is no competition to design a postcode - just one to find an organisation to implement the code recommended by the National Postcode Board in 2006. What is to be impemented is the "ABC 123" Code which based on An Post sorting operations;- where ABC is the post town (not related to actual geographic location of a property - just where mailis sorted) - eg D04 or GAL and the "123" is the postal route. This effectively is the UK postcode (an analogue system with issues mentioned earlier) but without the necessary property numbers to make it work. And it was desgned pre Google, SatNavs and Smartphones so it is very old technology! There is no competition to design a postcode so the options mentioned above are NOT being considered at all! Finally, Minister Rabbitte's deadline for a decision before end September last has now passed, and yet again, without comment. This is the 5th deadline missed since 2008 and it now makes the tender to find the implementer the longest running tender competition ever - almost 3 years ongoing! For the record, the current proposals for a postcode in Ireland started 10 years ago - so don't expect anything soon!
SmilingLurker wrote: » I would say they will use the geo areas used for the property tax. The codes will be as close to townland areas, with relative numbering. They should use geo co ordinates of a point e.g entrance to a building. I hope they do not use Irish grid. Reasons for delay would be postal union objections (speculation, no evidence to support this). People also in transition areas do not like sharing parts of their codes with other areas.
aimhigh wrote: » Please read my previous comment - they will be using ABC 123 - the current tender competiion (3 years old) is to implemnet that model. There are no other choices! The ABC Model was chosen in 2006 after the Data Commissioner decided that a postcode that indentified individual properties would be a potential invasion of privacy! For that reason all other options were dropped and never considered again! No point in any more speculation - these are the facts!
MadsL wrote: » Great post. What a truly truly stupid decision. Why on earth would they not choose a SatNav based system.
Leonard Shelby wrote: » This thread was started to ask people to speculate, as none of us know what the final postcode model will be. Based on the recent press speculation I'm expecting a postcode for each individual address. How can you say that "all other options were dropped and never considered again" for a fact? That's quite a "hostage to fortune" you've set up. You might be right, you might be wrong, but please allow for the fact that sometimes when you AIM HIGH you miss the target...
aimhigh wrote: » Sorry for stopping your speculative fun but this has been gone through so many times here and other forums ad infinitum. There are well documented facts to work from! There is a tender process running since Jan 2011. That process is to select a Postacode Management Licenese Holder - i.e someone to implement the postcode and manage it for 10 years! The postcode specified for implementation is that as contained in the recommendations of the National Post Code Board in their report of 2006;- they recommended ABC 123 and this is specifically mentioned in the tender document! The tender process has not met its deadlines - award of the contract is now 25 months beyond deadline but 3 potential suppliers to implement the ABC 123 postcode have been selected and the process has not been terminated. An Post is one of the preferred suppliers. The Minister frequently refers to the "ongoing" tender in his Dail statements and uses it as a reason why he cannot discuss the details of what exactly is happening. That all being the case then, only ABC 123 is on the table and all other options were discarded in the 2006 report as a result of the Data Commissioner's judgement. It was suggested recently that the same Data Commissioner has not since changed his judgement. So nothing to speculate about really except when it might possibly happen! It's all in the public domain and here on the Dept Of Communications website if you want to read it:http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Postal/Postcodes.htm To change any of the above and consider any other options, the following would have to happen: 1. Cancel the tender currennt process (not without issues!) 2. Establish an independent National Address Agency which will take responsibility for specifications and controlling address creation, structure and maintenance in Ireland henceforth, with public safety as a major consideration. 3. Revisit the 2006 report and reconsider all the other options and make a new final report 4. Revisit the cost benefit analysis and consider the wider benefits of a postcode including he benefits to public safety! 5. Have the Data Commissioner change his judgment or introduce legislation to remove the problem 6. Change the Postal Act to allow for a precise postcode (currently only allows for a "locality" postcode - and a locality for the recent property tax in the Revenue Commissioners website mapping contained hundreds of properties) 7. Revisit the liberalisation of the postal market and liberalise An Post's Geodirectory as well. Or at least introduce legislation, as is the case for the equivalanet (PAF) in the UK, to ensure that the Geodirectory must be made available to all who want to use it and at a reasonable price. This to ensure that whoever gets the contract has guaranteed access to it without restrictions which may otherwise dictate that only An Post could get the contract! 8. Start a new tender process but not for implementation - to select a postcode design first and then run a seperate process afterwards to select those who will implement it and manage it (independent of An Post) Then all options can be freely and openly considered and the best for the country and all possible users selected! But this has gone on for 10 years now, so if there were to be speculation it might be about how to get the Minister to make up his mind and get on with it!
Leonard Shelby wrote: » Ok, I gather from "this is specifically mentioned in the tender document" that you've seen the final tender document, in which case you're not speculating.
aimhigh wrote: » Sure the tender specification was open for anyone to see and may still be available at etenders (Jan2011) - it's not a secret! Anyhow at the link I gave to Dept Of Communications website you will see it also clearly stated there. Here you go again:http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communicatio.../Postcodes.htm There are no secrets here;- it's all in the public domain As I said, the only room for speculation is when it might happen. Earlier in the summer, when put under pressure on the topic, the Minister stated that there would be a decision on who was doing the job by the end of September but as we can see that has not happened. However, the first deadline was set for Jan 2008 and we have had many missed deadlines since then.
Leonard Shelby wrote: » So you haven't seen the final tender. I had a look at that URL and I don't think you've read it properly. In the document they clearly state that there will be a Dialogue Stage and at the end of this "Once Candidates solutions have been sufficiently developed, DCENR will close the dialogue stage and issue Candidates with an Invitation to Submit Final Tenders (ITSFT) which will contain updates following the dialogue stage (e.g. updated statement of requirements, contract) and which will be evaluated using the award criteria to identify a preferred Candidate." This means that the final tender could be changed. Based on the recent speculation in the press about individual postcodes I think its unwise to assume that nothing has changed. I would respectfully suggest that you are speculating as much as the rest of us. We'll know when the Government gets around to telling us, I don't suppose that will be before the budget, maybe next year.
aimhigh wrote: » For the UK postcode to work -every property needs a property number! Expensive database also needed UK Postcode is a 1950's pre GPS, GIS, Smartphone, PC and Google technology - not as good as you think;- have a read here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84689595&postcount=1250
Jimoslimos wrote: » Which was why I argued that property names should be abolished and mandatory numbering should be implemented - you can keep your stupid little Rivendell plaque outside, but the property should have an assigned number. I never claimed the UK system was perfect, but it is pretty damn good and works well today for a 1950s system. Certainly better than many other countries.
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