Romas hit the headlines again

WilyCoyote · 03-10-2013 01:18AM

Seaneh wrote: »

So much fail in this article.

I assume the Mail understand the basic concept of freedom of movement for EU citizens? They can't actually be this clueless, surely/

BillyMitchel wrote: »

The Daily Mail discriminating, never thought I see the day.

And your take on The Guardian story?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/30/roma-families-court-children-crime-france

World news
France
Roma families in court accused of forcing their children into life of crime
Twenty-seven people charged with ordering young relatives to carry out burglaries across France and neighbouring countries
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The trial comes at a sensitive time in France, with the interior minister criticised for the dismantling of illegal Roma camps, including this one in Roubaix on Friday. Photograph: Michel Spingler/AP
The trial of 27 members of three Roma families accused of forcing their children into lives of crime has opened in the French city of Nancy.

The defendants were charged with ordering the children, most aged 11, to carry out a series of burglaries across France and neighbouring countries.

The parents, aged between 19 and 55, were said to have educated their children to steal from a young age often "loaning" them to relatives for €100,000 (£84,000) each. The children were expected to bring in around €5,000 a month.

Before the trial, one of the defence lawyers said, in an attempt to "explain not to justify", that the community was "operating from the middle ages".

The trial, described by the public prosecutor as "emblematic", comes at a sensitive time in France's relations with the European Roma that have settled on its territory.

The interior minister, Manuel Valls, has been criticised for dismantling illegal Roma camps, and was accused of racism when he suggested two days ago that "only a minority wished to integrate" into French society. Valls added that their way of life was in direct confrontation with those of local populations where illegal camps had been established.

The 27 are members of three extended families from Slavonski Brod in Croatia, who had settled in north-east France. They are accused of "association with criminals and complicity to theft", concerning around 100 thefts allegedly carried out by their children in France, Belgium and Germany and netting several million euros in cash and valuables.

All have denied the charges. If found guilty, they could be jailed for up to 10 years.

Grégory Weil, the prosecutor in charge of the case, said the children were "educated from a very young age uniquely to steal. They have never known any other school than that."

Prosecutors say the families formed a "well-practised pyramid organisation" in which children were put to work at 11. Police with international search warrants discovered the families lived in homes "of high quality, sometimes entirely in marble", and drove luxury cars back in Croatia.

Investigations in Croatia also led police to the suspected head of the crime network, a 66-year-old woman. The woman, who was not named, was arrested under an international warrant in July the day after Croatia joined the EU, and extradited to France. She is expected to be tried separately.

Alain Behr, lawyer for one of the accused, said he was concerned about the Roma getting a fair trial in the current political climate. He said they should be judged for what "they do and not what they are". He said he intended to explain without necessarily justifying the situation of the travelling people who were by and large unable to read and write and led a miserable existence, since the opening of European frontiers.

"We are judging with all the legal tools of the 21-century, behaviour which remains from a community operating from the middle ages," Behr added.

In total 200 gendarmes were mobilised for several months tracking the network leading to a wave of arrests in September 2011 in Alsace and Lorraine.

The trial is expected to last two weeks.

WilyCoyote · 04-10-2013 03:59AM

A historical point of view from The Daily Mail Telegraph:

European Roma descended from Indian 'untouchables', genetic study shows

Roma gypsies in Britain and Europe are descended from "dalits" or low caste "untouchables" who migrated from the Indian sub-continent 1,400 years ago, a genetic study has suggested.

Women and children from the Roma community stand in front of a former gendarmerie barrack that has been requisitioned by a group of associations and citizens to house them in Marseille, Southern France Photo: GETTY

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi

2:53PM GMT 03 Dec 2012

Gypsies have long believed they have origins in India, citing common Sanskrit words in their languages and photographs of darker-skinned ancestors in South Asian clothes, while earlier research has offered some scientific support for their suspicions.

Now a study led by Indian and Estonian academics, including Dr Toomas Kivisild of Cambridge University, has confirmed their origins in the Indian sub-continent, and even identified the location and social background from which they emerged.

The findings have been welcomed by Britain's Gypsy Council, which said it would help to promote understanding of Roma people throughout Europe. "We are Britain's first Non-Resident Indian community," said council spokesman Joseph Jones.

The study, which was published this month in the journal Nature, examined Y chromosomes in DNA samples to compare the genetic signatures of European Roma men with those of thousands of Indians from throughout the sub-continent.

Scientists from Hyderabad's Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology collaborated with colleagues in Estonia and Switzerland to compare more than 10,000 samples, including from members of 214 different Indian ethnic groups. They were analysed to match a South Asian Y chromosome type known as "haplogroup H1a1a-M82", which passes down male bloodlines, with samples from Roma men in Europe.

Life in a Roma ghetto
28 Feb 2013

While there were matches with samples from men throughout the Indian sub-continent, the closest match and the least genetic variation occurred with those from north-west India.
When the researchers overlaid the closest matches onto a genetic map of India, the highest density was in areas dominated by India's "doma", "scheduled tribes and castes" – the low caste dalits or untouchables who suffer widespread and generational discrimination and usually do society's dirtiest jobs.
The researchers believe the descendants of today's Roma gypsies in Europe began their westward exodus first to fight in wars in what is today Punjab between 1001 and 1026 on the promise of a promotion in caste status.
Later, they left to flee the fall of Hindu kingdoms in what is today Pakistan, with many setting off from near Gilgit.
The exodus to North Africa and Europe suggested they may have been early refugees from the spread of Islam into the Indian sub-continent. Dr Kivisild said the study had provided "evidence for the further interpretation of history of what kind of processes were triggerimg these movements".
Gypsy groups in Britain trace their own roots back first to Egypt – where they believe the name "gypsy" comes from – and beyond that to India. Joseph Jones of the Gypsy Council said early photographs show British gypsies with Indian facial features and styles of dress until 100 years ago.
He said the new study was helpful because it had scientifically confirmed the Indian origin of Britain and Europe's Roma community and that their common heritage should be accepted now by newer Indian communities in Britain. "We're not outcasts here. I don't care if we are associated with dalits – I don't live in a community where caste exists. I do feel a bit Indian, I've always felt an affinity with Indians," he said.
Gypsies were first noticed in Britain in around 1500 and acquired a reputation as itinerant craftsmen, traders and horse dealers.

foggy_lad · 04-10-2013 04:25AM

There used to be a gang of about a dozen roma women working the city centre area in groups of 4-5 picking pockets and begging. They used to pick out men and folow them begging then surround them while one would try to get any wallet that they would have spotted. A real nasty bunch of scumbags who were well organised and got dropped off in the city centre and collected later.

I am assuming they were either caught or have moved on to some other area as I have not seen them in some months around abbey street.

WilyCoyote · 04-10-2013 02:13PM

They probably have joined the Scientologists in their hall in Abbey St. Same MO ......... take peoples' money

animaal · 04-10-2013 03:16PM

wildlifeboy wrote: »

I agree with the bloke who was banned.

Mod: also banned

I agree with the mod who banned the bloke who agreed with the bloke who was banned.

Hang on, am I banned?

keithclancy · 09-10-2013 10:49AM

Theres a few articles in Netherlands at the moment saying that a large amount of pickpocketing (actually they say most) in the Netherlands are carried out by Roma from Eastern Europe organised by Eastern European gangs.

The gangs target the poor and destitute.

The organise in advance 300-400 people to target specific events such as Gay Pride, Queens Day (Kings day now) and so on.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nieuws.nl%2Falgemeen%2F20130918%2FZakkenrollers-zijn-bijna-allemaal-Roma

Its not the Roma, Irish, English, Dutch Travellers or Itinerants that are living in the Netherlands and have a life that are the problem. Its the ones that travel for criminal economic gain run by gangs in the countries they are from are the problem.

Difficult to address, because every country has its ghettos, France has some of the worst !

periodictable · 25-10-2013 11:27PM

Here's a recent New York Times article on the Roma-how did we miss it here?
While one cannot generalize, questions have to be asked.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/sunday-review/are-the-roma-primitive-or-just-poor.html?WT.mc_id=AD-D-E-OTB-HPGLOB-1009&WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_c=__CAMP_UID__&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1381809600000&bicmet=1385787600000&_r=0

Cee-Jay-Cee · 26-10-2013 12:13AM

If the Roma are so poverty stricken how were they able to afford flights for themsves and their 14 children. I used to live next door to a Roma family and being honest I had I problem with them, they pretty much kept to themselves (all 9 of them in a 3 bedroom house), they were a bit noisy at times in that they shouted at each other rather than speaking In normal tones but that was about it. I spoke to them now and then and I was fine with them as neighbours. I have moved from that area now and have since learned that they were/are a major criminal family involved in all sorts of scams and distraction thefts.

I have yet to hear one positive story about a Roma person or family. I have never heard of one working honestly or integrating into irish society. There are a Roma clan operating a car wash in my town. The council have tried to shut them down as they have no planning permission and do not pay rates but still they remain in operation. If it were an irish person doing the same thing they'd have been before the courts already and be out of operation but as usual authorities pander to these people for fear of being accused of being discriminatory.

Red21 · 26-10-2013 01:36AM

CJC999 wrote: »

If the Roma are so poverty stricken how were they able to afford flights for themsves and their 14 children. I used to live next door to a Roma family and being honest I had I problem with them, they pretty much kept to themselves (all 9 of them in a 3 bedroom house), they were a bit noisy at times in that they shouted at each other rather than speaking In normal tones but that was about it. I spoke to them now and then and I was fine with them as neighbours. I have moved from that area now and have since learned that they were/are a major criminal family involved in all sorts of scams and distraction thefts.

I have yet to hear one positive story about a Roma person or family. I have never heard of one working honestly or integrating into irish society. There are a Roma clan operating a car wash in my town. The council have tried to shut them down as they have no planning permission and do not pay rates but still they remain in operation. If it were an irish person doing the same thing they'd have been before the courts already and be out of operation but as usual authorities pander to these people for fear of being accused of being discriminatory.

So you found actually dealing with Roma fine but later learned some really bad **** about them... so now you're gonna base your opinions on what you've learned.
How did you learn about the criminality?
Also, if you wanna hear something positive about the Roma why don't you read the first paragraph of you own post.

Romas hit the headlines again

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