I pay taxes for that

Uriel. · 03-10-2013 12:03PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The rich are the most voiceless?

Wow. That's a new one.

This is topical.

IRS at 100: How Income Taxation Built The Middle Class

How much of the population is "rich" and how much is not?

jackal · 03-10-2013 12:07PM

Maliyah Young Wilderness wrote: »

Why does it make you sick?

Because I personally know people, members of my extended family, that have made a lifestyle choice to live off the handouts given out by the state. One of them is a family with multiple children where the husband left a job so that he could spend more time at home for much the same money as he was getting working 40 hours a week.

That choice absorbs the taxes of 5 or so people who are paying tax. It annoys me. If less people were on the take, the taxes could go to more worthy causes than allowing people to hang around at home. Debt could be paid off quicker, cuts in essential services could be reduced, taxes could be rolled back.

There are always people that need the dole and genuinely are seeking work, but when you see how much it takes to support just one person for a year, it annoys me that our system is so soft that its a viable option for someone to just decide they may as well not work.

On the pensions side, my father worked for a branch of government many years ago, he did his 20 years, and has been working in the private sector full time since then for another 20 years, all the while getting an index linked, government pension of about the average industrial wage. Sweet deal for him, but something is wrong in our state with the long term benefits that are handed out like candy.

Jester252 · 03-10-2013 12:26PM

jackal wrote: »

Because I personally know people, members of my extended family, that have made a lifestyle choice to live off the handouts given out by the state. One of them is a family with multiple children where the husband left a job so that he could spend more time at home for much the same money as he was getting working 40 hours a week.

That choice absorbs the taxes of 5 or so people who are paying tax. It annoys me. If less people were on the take, the taxes could go to more worthy causes than allowing people to hang around at home. Debt could be paid off quicker, cuts in essential services could be reduced, taxes could be rolled back.

There are always people that need the dole and genuinely are seeking work, but when you see how much it takes to support just one person for a year, it annoys me that our system is so soft that its a viable option for someone to just decide they may as well not work.

On the pensions side, my father worked for a branch of government many years ago, he did his 20 years, and has been working in the private sector full time since then for another 20 years, all the while getting an index linked, government pension of about the average industrial wage. Sweet deal for him, but something is wrong in our state with the long term benefits that are handed out like candy.

Just to point out that it would be more than 5 people supporting one person on the dole. Who pays for their gardas, medical card, heating, public services (i.e waste treatment, water etc.), teachers, TDs, and so on. What you said reminded me of a call on liveline. A mother was complaining about cuts to one of her allowances and how she couldn't take her children to kickboxing and dancing anymore. Only from another working mother to call in and complain that she had no time with her kids as she was too busy working to try and keep a roof over their heads.
It just says something about this country that their are people working that have more money problem than unemployed people.

.jacksparrow. · 03-10-2013 12:33PM

I was lynched on boards a while back for suggesting to a poster who was struggling to pay bills to get rid of their broadband.

Straightaway people came sayin that people would go insane without broadband and everyone needs it.

One poster even trawled through my posts from last year to see I had broadband and commented about my mb connection and how lucky I am.

Entitled that's the word I always hear in this country, I'm entitled to this and that.

Noone is entitled to anything but its the attitude of this country, they think the world owes them something.

srsly78 · 03-10-2013 12:39PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I was lynched on boards a while back for suggesting to a poster who was struggling to pay bills to get rid of their broadband.

Straightaway people came sayin that people would go insane without broadband and everyone needs it.

One poster even trawled through my posts from last year to see I had broadband and commented about my mb connection and how lucky I am.

Entitled that's the word I always hear in this country, I'm entitled to this and that.

Noone is entitled to anything but its the attitude of this country, they think the world owes them something.

In this modern world of 2013 jobhunting etc are done via the internet. If you have to pay for stamps and envelopes + drive to post office you would quickly exceed the monthly cost of broadband.

jackal · 03-10-2013 12:39PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Just to point out that it would be more than 5 people supporting one person on the dole. Who pays for their gardas, medical card, heating, public services (i.e waste treatment, water etc.), teachers, TDs, and so on. What you said reminded me of a call on liveline. A mother was complaining about cuts to one of her allowances and how she couldn't take her children to kickboxing and dancing anymore. Only from another working mother to call in and complain that she had no time with her kids as she was too busy working to try and keep a roof over their heads.
It just says something about this country that their are people working that have more money problem than unemployed people.

I understand that yeah, but I would say that the figures are built in there that my share of money that goes towards the guards includes the shortfall from those that are not contributing taxes.

Yeah the liveline lady sounds like them to be honest. They manage a trip to Euro Disney or Florida every year, yet find plenty of time to harp on about the government hurting the working class by reducing benefits etc... Annoying.

jackal · 03-10-2013 12:40PM

srsly78 wrote: »

In this modern world of 2013 jobhunting etc are done via the internet. If you have to pay for stamps and envelopes + drive to post office you would quickly exceed the monthly cost of broadband.

go to the Library.

srsly78 · 03-10-2013 12:40PM

jackal wrote: »

go to the Library.

Travelling to the library might cost money. Broadband is very cheap.

martingriff · 03-10-2013 12:41PM

vitani wrote: »

Over €450 to debt repayments. Only 35c to libraries, 31c to the Fire Service and 7c to the Secret Service...

...we have a Secret Service?

Yep there called the Rangers and are meant to be one is not the best in the world. They have trained Mossad in a few things like diffusing bombs. They also come in under budget each years. They do training exercises in the wicklow mountains and Dublin mountains

.jacksparrow. · 03-10-2013 12:44PM

srsly78 wrote: »

In this modern world of 2013 jobhunting etc are done via the internet. If you have to pay for stamps and envelopes + drive to post office you would quickly exceed the monthly cost of broadband.

I'm sorry but not all jobhunting is done via the internet, that's a bizarre statement.

srsly78 · 03-10-2013 12:51PM

So you are saying the internet is no good for job hunting? Snail mail is making a comeback?

.jacksparrow. · 03-10-2013 12:54PM

srsly78 wrote: »

So you are saying the internet is no good for job hunting? Snail mail is making a comeback?

No I'm saying its not the only way to get a job.

Lets say the internet suddenly shutdown tomorrow, the world of getting jobs wouldn't suddenly cease to exist.

srsly78 · 03-10-2013 01:00PM

No but it would become a lot more expensive from the job applicant in terms of time and money.

Cormac OSullivan · 03-10-2013 01:02PM

I created the app, so I might be able to answer some of your questions.

Keno wrote: »

What if you earn more than €150,000?

You can afford to pay me to find out where it goes. :P

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Nice try grubberment!

Like I'm going to click into a state sponsored website and tell them how much I'm earning.

:rolleyes:

We are totally independent of government, and we don't collect any information from you about from this app. You can find out more about who we are and what we do here: http://www.publicpolicy.ie/about-us/

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Is there any source for the data used or any evidence at all that is accurate and not biased?

The vast bulk of the data comes from the Revised Estimates of Public Spending, 2013. I took some data from the HSE as well as they had a better breakdown of health spending.

kowloon wrote: »

I didn't see the Senate in there, would have been interesting.

An easy way to calculate it is to look at how much you spend on the secret service or the centenarians' bounty. We spend about €1 million a year on each. So if you believe the FG numbers of €20 million, just multiply what you spend on the secret service or centenarians' bounty by 20. For someone on €20K, that gives a figure for the cost of the Seanad of 16c a year.

For those interested in the income distribution (as I see a few of you are), I have another app called Where Do You Fit In that you might find informative: http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-do-you-fit-in/

jackal · 03-10-2013 01:03PM

srsly78 wrote: »

Travelling to the library might cost money. Broadband is very cheap.

Yeah, broadband can be very cheap, but if you are struggling to pay your bills, every penny counts, and every fixed-cost non-essential item should be examined. Its available for free in many places, its not an essential. To me it reads like another example of the entitlement attitude of expecting a job to come knocking on your door instead of getting up and out and spending quality time looking for one.

I bet having broadband at home when you are jobseeking is actually a massive distraction. A cursory look at the irish job websites followed by 5 hours of boards, reddit, newspapers etc and boom, the day is gone.

.jacksparrow. · 03-10-2013 01:11PM

srsly78 wrote: »

No but it would become a lot more expensive from the job applicant in terms of time and money.

I was in a shop the other day and a girl came in and dropped her cv in, I thought fair play to her showing her face and making the effort, what's wrong with that?

Anyway the said poster wasn't looking for a job her boyfriend had one but they were struggling to pay bills. So why couldn't she cut out the internet?

MadYaker · 03-10-2013 01:23PM

Basically it just demonstrates that the middle class earners are carrying this country. Nothing new there.

srsly78 · 03-10-2013 01:28PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I was in a shop the other day and a girl came in and dropped her cv in, I thought fair play to her showing her face and making the effort, what's wrong with that?

Anyway the said poster wasn't looking for a job her boyfriend had one but they were struggling to pay bills. So why couldn't she cut out the internet?

Well if all they use the internet for is facebook then yes they should indeed cut it out. For many people however it is also an important tool for work and the finding thereof.

.jacksparrow. · 03-10-2013 01:33PM

srsly78 wrote: »

Well if all they use the internet for is facebook then yes they should indeed cut it out. For many people however it is also an important tool for work and the finding thereof.

We should probably give broadband free of charge to the unemployed, sounds like a great idea the government would think of.

KyussBishop · 03-10-2013 01:34PM

bluewolf wrote: »

It's the general sentiment I hear: we don't like rich people being rich because they have too much money and power and it's not fair

Yes, because: Money grants legal/political power (among other kinds of power) over other people and society in general.

Pointing to the government is just whataboutery, as nobody says nothing should be done about government corruption/abuses; the potential power (i.e. money) of the wealthy needs to be restricted too.

Friend Computer wrote: »

So the solution--as I've heard before--is to remove power from one set of people who are at least some way accountable to the public and basically give it to another who have no accountability.

Exactly. That is the crux of a most free-market types desiring small-government: Removing power from government, in order to provide it to those who control large amounts of money (not just in personal wealth either, as controlling the flow of money is enormous power).

The economics they use to back it all (to try and pretend there are legitimate aims, and that it is not all about power), is all theory (easily falsifiable theory at that), and they like to overtake all economic discussion on boards (and well...all over the Internet) with discussion of their theory :pac:

srsly78 · 03-10-2013 01:36PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

We should probably give broadband free of charge to the unemployed, sounds like a great idea the government would think of.

They can already go to the CWO to get help with household bills. It's down to the cwos discretion I think.

vitani · 03-10-2013 02:00PM

Cormac OSullivan wrote: »

For those interested in the income distribution (as I see a few of you are), I have another app called Where Do You Fit In that you might find informative: http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-do-you-fit-in/

That second app is fascinating. I feel strangely reassured now.

KwackerJack · 03-10-2013 06:28PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It's G2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G2_(Republic_of_Ireland)

Ranger wing is more like the SAS, and G2 is like MI5

True but G2 is run by Ranger Wing members

I wonder do they worry about taxes

AnonoBoy · 03-10-2013 09:06PM

Cormac OSullivan wrote: »

We are totally independent of government, and we don't collect any information from you about from this app. You can find out more about who we are and what we do here: http://www.publicpolicy.ie/about-us/

Thanks dude.

Although on After Hours you can take most things that are said with a pinch (dollop) of salt!

Sh1tbag OToole · 03-10-2013 09:32PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

We should probably give broadband free of charge to the unemployed, sounds like a great idea the government would think of.

Great idea, then as soon as you get a job they take it away again along with all the other things they take away when you get a job. Then you're left wondering what the point of getting a job was.

I pay taxes for that

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