Cyclists on a Backroad

ThisRegard · 12-04-2013 10:11AM

It's like people just see, oh look, a cyclist thread. Let me post some ill informed rubbish about insurance, tax, cycle lanes and other such nonsense as obviously it couldn't have posted already in 40+ pages.

looking_around · 12-04-2013 12:13PM

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm ok then, I usually just stick to the paths:D

You've kind of undermined your own point - drivers are licensed and they still do idiotic things - it's enforcement that keeps things relatively organised on the road for the motorist, therefore licensing cyclists won't do anything except create a bureaucratic nightmare, but better enforcement would help greatly. In that regard the application of fixed penalty notices to cyclists who ignore the rules of the road can't come quick enough - I reckon that it'll sort a lot out, assuming the Guards use them.

The safety of one road user (or category of road user) shouldn't be compromised for the convenience of another - the laws are fine as they are, people just need to cop on.

The license would help make sure people ACTUALLY learned the rules of the road. There are many countries with cycling licenses, Portugal for example. It just make sure that they know what the signs mean.

As for the terrible drivers. There are still drivers on the road who never had to take the theory test and actually understand the rules. And I think thats part of the problem.

IM0 · 12-04-2013 12:59PM

has to seen to be believed

Jawgap · 12-04-2013 01:14PM

looking_around wrote: »

The license would help make sure people ACTUALLY learned the rules of the road. There are many countries with cycling licenses, Portugal for example. It just make sure that they know what the signs mean.
.

....and at what age should the requirement to obtain a licence apply?

It's funny, I've cycled twice in Portugal (for a week at a time in both cases) and that's the first I've heard I need a licence!

looking_around wrote: »

As for the terrible drivers. There are still drivers on the road who never had to take the theory test and actually understand the rules. And I think thats part of the problem.

So licensing is not wholly effective for drivers, but it will be for cyclists

looking_around · 12-04-2013 01:23PM

Jawgap wrote: »

....and at what age should the requirement to obtain a licence apply?

14/15?

Jawgap wrote: »

.
It's funny, I've cycled twice in Portugal (for a week at a time in both cases) and that's the first I've heard I need a licence!

Half my family is Portuguese.

Jawgap wrote: »

.
So licensing is not wholly effective for drivers, but it will be for cyclists

It's not effective, because they gave licenses to drivers who had been driving before the rules&laws were brought in. These drivers never had to learn.

I'm not saying it's the answer to everything, but I believe it would lessen the amount of people who don't understand the rules.
I know quite a few cyclists who don't drive and actually don't understand alot of road signs. I believe the licenses would help. It would force more people to actually learn the rules& the law.

kylith · 12-04-2013 01:30PM

The driving Theory Test should be taught in schools. It wouldn't do much for people already on the road, but it would help ensure that in the future neither cyclists, motorists, nor pedestrians could say that they don't know what the signs mean, or that they're unaware of the rules of the road.

Jawgap · 12-04-2013 01:49PM

looking_around wrote: »

14/15?

.

So a kid would have to wait until their Junior Cert before they could ride a bike?? That's a bit mad, Ted.

looking_around wrote: »

Half my family is Portuguese.

.

...and your point is?

Maybe you could link to a site that describes the requirements for cyclists to be licensed in Portugal?

A lot of cyclists do have UCI licences issued through their national federations, but you don't have to have one to throw your leg over a bike.

looking_around wrote: »

It's not effective, because they gave licenses to drivers who had been driving before the rules&laws were brought in. These drivers never had to learn.

I'm not saying it's the answer to everything, but I believe it would lessen the amount of people who don't understand the rules.
I know quite a few cyclists who don't drive and actually don't understand alot of road signs. I believe the licenses would help. It would force more people to actually learn the rules& the law.

Some of the worst examples of driving you'll see on the road are perpetrated by dickheads young men - they've done their compulsory lessons, their theory test and passed their driving test, but their immaturity still leads them to drive like knobheads. In their minds, according to RSA research, driving a bit fast or accelerating through an orange light was acceptable if you considered yourself to be a good driver.

The same RSA study also found that this group of drivers (under 25) thought their skills were such that they could easily meet the challenge of driving fast.

The stats also show that they, unfortunately, are over-represented in terms of numbers of drivers killed (33 out of 65 in 2010).

looking_around · 12-04-2013 02:14PM

at the 14/15, I did state to cycle on the road. There are many parents aho'd allow kids younger than that on the road anyway

Grandpa Hassan · 12-04-2013 02:34PM

looking_around wrote: »

at the 14/15, I did state to cycle on the road. There are many parents aho'd allow kids younger than that on the road anyway

I see plenty of kids younger than that from the local estate cycling around on the roads. Are you going to suggest that they should be criminalised? I'd suggest that some of them are already alienated enough. Licencing was tried in Toronto....and one of the reasons it was discontinued was because young children at an impressionable age were having unnecessary run-ins with the police, damaging relationships.

"Licensing in the nineties has been most often discussed in response to concerns for pedestrian safety on sidewalks, where incidents of collisions, near misses, and a lack of courtesy have made many pedestrians, including seniors feel insecure.

Each time the City has rejected licensing as a solution to the problem under discussion.

The major reasons why licensing has been rejected are:

The difficulty in keeping a database complete and current
The difficulty in licensing children, given that they ride bikes too
Licensing in and of itself does not change the behaviour of cyclists who are disobeying traffic laws. "

And this is one reasonably sophisticated city. What chances of Ireland being able to pull it off!

Other administrative reasons are outlined here

http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/safety/licensing/issues.htm

There is plenty of scope under existing legilsation to improve behaviour. Why not a garda at every traffic light handing out spot fines to red light breakers. If there is appetite to do anything, that would be easier and cheaper than an expensive and inefficient licensing system

Corkfeen · 12-04-2013 02:47PM

looking_around wrote: »

at the 14/15, I did state to cycle on the road. There are many parents aho'd allow kids younger than that on the road anyway

I haven't seen any proof that you need a license. There's tons of bike rental companies in Portugal yet they don't refer for a need to have a license. So proof, please....

Darkglasses · 12-04-2013 05:46PM

Can't find any reference to needing a cycling licence in Portugal. No mention here

http://www.portugalbestcycling.com/

or here

http://www.portugalproperty.com/guide-to-portugal/portugal-lifestyle-resources/cycling-in-portugal/

Deedsie · 12-04-2013 06:11PM

looking_around wrote: »

at the 14/15, I did state to cycle on the road. There are many parents aho'd allow kids younger than that on the road anyway

What about all the rent a bikes in Dublin? Will tourists have to produce a licence before hiring a bike? If so, who do they present the licence to on a Sunday evening in the summer? Will tourists who travel to Ireland on cycling holidays be required to get a licence before heading out on the road?

opti0nal · 12-04-2013 08:38PM

kylith wrote: »

The driving Theory Test should be taught in schools. ...it would help ensure that in the future neither cyclists, motorists, nor pedestrians could say that they don't know what the signs mean, or that they're unaware of the rules of the road.

The 78% of drivers who break speed limits - is this because they don't know the RoTR?

Forget education, these drivers will find a way to excuse themselves from obeying the rules...we need more enforcement and heavier penalties. That will teach them.

Cantona's Collars · 02-10-2013 12:55PM

Cars are expected to stop at level crossings,so what about cyclists? The barrier is down for a reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDdYqHO3dqk

shuffles88 · 02-10-2013 01:03PM

El Inho wrote: »

also cyclists who dont use the cycle lanes grind my gears too...

I don't understand this either, I've just started driving through a town on my commute with really good cycle lanes and I've seen so many people cycling on the footpath and one particular numpty in all his lycra (or whatever it is) cycling into the traffic on a busy road beside the bike lane.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 01:30PM

shuffles88 wrote: »

I don't understand this either, I've just started driving through a town on my commute with really good cycle lanes and I've seen so many people cycling on the footpath and one particular numpty in all his lycra (or whatever it is) cycling into the traffic on a busy road beside the bike lane.

There are very few 'really good cycle' lanes in Ireland - and loads and loads of poorly designed, badly constructed and woefully neglected ones. Cycle a few kilometers on them and you'll get the picture.

At this time of year, apart from the usual detritus that you find in them, along with the drain covers, gullies and potholes, you get the added excitement of leaf mulch just to keep you on your toes.

Also, there's no law requiring a cyclist to use a cycle lane - it was abolished last year

seamus · 02-10-2013 01:32PM

zerks wrote: »

Cars are expected to stop at level crossings,so what about cyclists? The barrier is down for a reason.

There's no accounting for idiots
http://media.smh.com.au/news/national-news/man-fails-to-see-train-4756591.html

kylith · 02-10-2013 01:35PM

shuffles88 wrote: »

I don't understand this either, I've just started driving through a town on my commute with really good cycle lanes and I've seen so many people cycling on the footpath and one particular numpty in all his lycra (or whatever it is) cycling into the traffic on a busy road beside the bike lane.

I used to cycle a fair bit, and I have to say that the condition of cycle lanes in this country is abysmal. Many of them are simply not fit for purpose, are too narrow, are full of broken glass and other detritus, are broken by potholes and drains, and are obstructed by pedestrians and by cars, both parked and otherwise.

By no means am I excusing people who don't use perfectly good cycle lanes, but too many in this country are ill thought out and potentially dangerous.

07Lapierre · 02-10-2013 01:37PM

zerks wrote: »

Cars are expected to stop at level crossings,so what about cyclists? The barrier is down for a reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDdYqHO3dqk

Cyclists? Motorists, Pedestrians...there all at it!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8313704/Network-Rail-release-CCTV-of-level-crossing-near-misses.html#

Grandpa Hassan · 02-10-2013 01:38PM

shuffles88 wrote: »

I don't understand this either, I've just started driving through a town on my commute with really good cycle lanes and I've seen so many people cycling on the footpath and one particular numpty in all his lycra (or whatever it is) cycling into the traffic on a busy road beside the bike lane.

To echo Jawgap, I often come across workmen, street sweepers, or even policement after a fender bender, just sweepeng all the broken glass, stones etc into the cycle lane. Monday mornings are often not great after a weekend of drinking and broken pint glasses and bottles. And right now, thats exactly where the leaves build up

If the cycle lane is just a stripe at the edge of the road, you will find me cycling at the very outside of it, out of the way of the detritus and the drain covers. And I make no apologies for cycling in the road to avoid that mess where necessary, along with avoiding other obstructions (which regularly involve illegally parked cars, incidentally).

shuffles88 · 02-10-2013 02:05PM

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

April O Neill · 02-10-2013 02:09PM

El Inho wrote: »

I can't be the only person whose head is absolutely melted by the sheer quantity of people in clothes which are far too tight, with tortoises on their head taking up the roads of Ireland on their bikes...

I have nothing against cycling. Its a fantastic form of transport, but these people are taking up room, and are an accident waiting to happen. When cycling for fitness instead of practicality can you not please bring your bikes to a main road where there is space?

Main roads down the country are terrifying to cycle on.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 02:10PM

the "off-road" cycle paths tend to be covered in the rubbish I mentioned earlier as well as plenty of these.....

April O Neill · 02-10-2013 02:12PM

El Inho wrote: »

the roads were developed for motorists...and there is no such thing as a bike tax..so cyclists are free loaders in the roads in my view.

Which causes more damage to roads, cars or bikes?

Hence motor tax.

The roads weren't just developed for cars, and cars damage them much more.

Jawgap · 02-10-2013 02:19PM

April O Neill wrote: »

Which causes more damage to roads, cars or bikes?

Hence motor tax.

The roads weren't just developed for cars, and cars damage them much more.

Motoring must be the stupidest activity we let ourselves do.

I have a car or two - I pay tax on them. I work and pay tax on my income - then I take what's left of my income and use some of that to put diesel in my car(s), giving the government another 50% of my money.......money that they've already taxed once!

As a cyclist I may freeload when I'm on the bike, but at least every kilometre I do on the bike doesn't send more of my hard earned cash into the seemingly bottomless pit of government spending........

humbert · 02-10-2013 02:20PM

shuffles88 wrote: »

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

Cycle lanes on footpaths often make junctions a nightmare.

maniac2000 · 02-10-2013 02:30PM

El Inho wrote: »

the roads were developed for motorists...and there is no such thing as a bike tax..so cyclists are free loaders in the roads in my view.

also cyclists who dont use the cycle lanes grind my gears too...

its all fun and games lads, but at the end of the day no matter what happens, you clip a stupid cyclist and no matter whose fault it is its the driver. its nonsense.

"the roads were developed for motorists" where in this world does it say this explicitly? A road is a road and anyone can use it cyclist/moped/motorbike/car! Cyclists are entitled to use the road as much as the next user. As far as im aware (it was in another thread on here but can't find it) cyclists are not always required to use bike lanes where provided they are provided for convenience to the cyclist. Most bike lanes are covered in glass and etc and where the cycle lane is off road generally you get random walkers and joggers in your path so this removes the possibility of using the cycle lane safely! Im a cyclist(who obeys traffic rules etc)and I drive so I see this from both sides. If I come across a cyclist I do what everyone else should do and wait until the road is clear to overtake. What else can you do. When a tractor is in your way it's the same procedure. Cyclists don't mean to cause delays (well most of them) but I notice when cycling a lot of the time a car could easily overtake me safely leaving enough room for the oncoming traffic to pass bye but instead they think they are overtaking a bus and delay the people behind!

Grandpa Hassan · 02-10-2013 02:32PM

shuffles88 wrote: »

The cycle lanes I'm referring to are the ones that are on wide footpaths not the ones squeezed into the road if you know what I mean. These are the ones that I can't fathom the people cycling on the footpath instead. We'll never agree I'm sure because this is After Hours after all but I'd be more than happy to use these ones rather than the ones in my town which are for all intents and purposes p!ss poor.

Oh, I don't use those. They're bl**dy death traps. Pedestrians are oblivious to them. And they are a nightmare when you come to junctions as they generally just force you into the road.

I use the road instead. You don't know when a pedestrian is going to wander into them when you have some speed up. Or indeed just walk in them anyway, oblivious to the fact that they are a cycle lane. I'd rather cycle in the road than risk hitting a mum with a buggy when I'm cycling at 25kph+.

Mint Sauce · 02-10-2013 02:33PM

shedweller wrote: »

Its painful enough in fairness. Lots of them go two abreast as well. That limits overtaking opportunities.

Perfectly within the law. This also forces drivers to actually overtake rather than trying to squeze between the cyclist and centre line.

Maximus Alexander · 02-10-2013 02:36PM

El Inho wrote: »

Well I do not object to cyclists using the road. By cyclists I mean people who do no drive, and this is their form of transport to get from a to b. But there are hundreds if not thousands of enthusiasts who are taking over the roads and making them notably more dangerous.

Automobiles have far more right to the road as we are the ones who pay the taxes for the upkeep (however crap it is) of said roads. All I'm saying is, it wouldn't kill the sports cyclists to move to a ring road or road with large shoulders, while keeping on the back roads unfortunately could kill them.

This is rubbish, tax doesn't work like this in Ireland. Anyone who pays income tax in Ireland pays for the upkeep of the roads. You pay motor tax for your car (and so do I for that matter), not road tax, and it is not specifically earmarked for spending on land transport infrastructure.

Everyone has an equal right to use the roads, you're not special. If you want to drive, drive. But do so respecting other road users, whatever mode of transport they might be using. Plan ahead, leave enough time for your journey and you won't be so frustrated and irrational.

Cyclists on a Backroad

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