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Season 5, Episode 16: Felina

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    #1142
    doozer16
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭doozer16


    Well worth a read, points out some pretty cool stuff

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/18-fun-easter-eggs-in-the-breaking-bad-series-finale


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    #1143
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    Zyzz wrote: »
    Walter White is dead though :pac:

    And Better Call Saul is a prequel though 😀


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    #1144
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    This scene was problematic for me. I knew as soon as WW told the Nazis about the money, they were going to kill Hank and take the money anyway. I was surprised WW told them where it was. Even Hank knew they decided ten minutes ago to kill Hank.

    However, the reason I think WW would be capable of killing Hank of he had to is because he poisoned a ten year old and he menacingly threatened Skylers life over the phone and kidnapped the baby He does what needs to be done, according to his own set of rules.

    You really don't get BB, do you?

    Walt didn't poison a 10 year old and he never threatened Skylers life.


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    #1145
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

    A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......

    Wasn't as daft as Fring walking out of the room with half his head blown off at the end of season 4. Both instances of damn good TV regardless imo.


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    #1146
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    doozer16 wrote: »
    Expectations too high? Wasn't everyones expectations for it to be good?

    I didn't expect it to be great, I'm a big fan and Ozymandias was one of the best hours of TV I've witnessed but the ending for me was poor, the shoot out was RIDICULOUS, the fact Lydia meets Todd at same time same seat - RIDICULOUS, to name but a few.
    The main plot of this show is great but the sub plots are very poor and never backed up sufficiently.
    For it to be uttered in the same breath as the Sopranos is criminal.


    There was also a glaring mistake 2 episodes ago where Todd tells L that the Meth is 92% then ten minutes later he's telling someone else that it's 96% (Maybe there's a reason for that, I don't know)

    Not a mistake. Two different cooks, months apart. You think Jessie only did one cook in 4 months?


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    #1147
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    doozer16 wrote: »
    Really? I just heard there was a spin off nothing more.
    Makes sense, I presume it will be 30 min sitcom style? Can't see it working although I do love the character/actor.

    It's mentioned like a 100 times on this thread alone.


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    #1148
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    Mike making a cameo would be great, even a really brief one.

    He could conceivably have a big part in the show, although I suppose it depends how much the producers want to connect it to BB.

    Mike was Sauls PI so it would be very plausible for him to be in it, especially as he was such a well liked character.


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    #1149
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Gaaargh! This word predictable!

    In a game of chess, there's only so many moves you can make to get to checkmate.
    So many theories for the finale have been floating about, it's inevitable the ending would be one or more of them. Honestly, how many more twists and turns could this series realistically take?

    I guess you can never please everyone, but my hat goes off to Vince Gilligan for making an outstanding piece of television and for me personally, I couldn't imagine a more fitting end for the characters he created.

    Totally agree. It's amazing how many posters on here think they are better writers than Vince!


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    #1150
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    IvaBigWun wrote: »
    I need to watch it again without all those ad breaks but I think it needed a much darker ending.

    My thoughts on first viewing:

    There was no need for the Grey Matter duo, giving them the money felt forced.

    Skyler and the kids should have been murdered by the Nazis, Walt is left with nothing to lose and all to avenge.

    Ridiculous A Team gun aside (Walt seems to be the fastest learner of how an M60 gun works ever) it was the only option the writers had left themselves for killing the Nazis. So as silly as it is lets say the bad guys go out that way and we still have Walt and Jesse at the end, Jesse refuses to kill Mr White because he realises that was part of his problem, taking orders from Heisenberg.

    Walt tells Jesse where his money is stashed, Jesse speeds off into the sunset and Walt dies in the lab, a completely broken man because his family were killed by Jack & Co.



    Vince Giligan: "Its like Walt says 'everybody dies in this movie"

    well too many people lived for my liking Vince. It almost feels like the AMC executives got involved with the ending, it will leak out eventually if they did.

    Over a third of IMDB users have awarded this episode a one out of ten http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2301455/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

    Thats a bit harsh, it was (on first viewing) a 5, which isnt good enough for a 10/10 show

    Where in the episode does Walt tells Jesse where his money is stashed?

    Kinda hard to do considering Walt killed Jack before he told him where the money was.

    IMDB rating is 9.9. That says it all.


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    #1151
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    m0ynihan wrote: »
    Does anyone else remember Brock or is it just me? Shouldn't we have got some idea of what happened to him after Andrea was killed? The ending was solid enough though, but there were a few poor enough parts imo, that ridiculous gun for example (I know it was necessary but still). I'd give it a seven out of ten, probably the poorest of this half of the series though. That song at the end was absolutely brutal!

    Brock was a minor character. What was there to wrap up? Orphaned, he would have been taken into care or taken in by his grandmother. Part of what I liked about BB was that it was not always necessary to spell everything out because Vince knew the audience was clever enough to work things out (like Walts call to Skyler)


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    #1152
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    John Dodger wrote: »
    You really don't get BB, do you?

    Walt didn't poison a 10 year old and he never threatened Skylers life.

    Brock.

    Yes he did threaten Skylers life.

    Anyway, as you chose to get personal, you'll be on my ignore list. Don't expect a reply.


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    #1153
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Brock.

    Yes he did threaten Skylers life.

    Anyway, as you chose to get personal, you'll be on my ignore list. Don't expect a reply.

    He knew the poison he gave Brock wouldn't be enough to kill him, he did poison him though yeah.

    The phone call threat to Skyler though, it was spelled out pretty clearly by Saul that that was a trick to get Skyler off the hook by making her look more like a victim than she actually was. That's why he returned the baby straight away after he did it.


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    #1154
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    He knew the poison he gave Brock wouldn't be enough to kill him, he did poison him though yeah.

    The phone call threat to Skyler though, it was spelled out pretty clearly by Saul that that was a trick to get Skyler off the hook by making her look more like a victim than she actually was. That's why he returned the baby straight away after he did it.

    As I said poisoned.

    He threatened her.

    Saul is his lawyer. It's his job to put the spin on. WW threatened. Saul interpreted.


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    #1155
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    Sudden Valley wrote: »
    So Lydia's daughter ends up an orpan. How sad. or can you survive ricin poisoning?

    Ever heard of Google? Or try reading this thread where that question is asked and answered several times.

    Oh, and I guess Walt figured it was better than Holly & Flynn being orphaned.


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    #1156
    FearDark
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,425 ✭✭✭FearDark


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    As I said poisoned.

    He threatened her.

    Saul is his lawyer. It's his job to put the spin on. WW threatened. Saul interpreted.

    You have this so so wrong...


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    #1157
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    This isn't real life.

    In real life Jesse would have been killed 4 seasons ago.

    Indeed. Real life is rarely as interesting as fiction.


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    #1158
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    John Dodger wrote: »
    Mike was Sauls PI so it would be very plausible for him to be in it, especially as he was such a well liked character.

    No, Mike was the "Head of Corporate Security" at Los Pollos Hermanos and Gus' enforcer. He only came to help Saul on matters where Gus' interests were concerned.


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    #1159
    Big Game
    Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Big Game


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

    A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......

    Much more implausible than a wheelchair bomb that gets set off by its occupant ringing a bell alright.....


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    #1160
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    As I said poisoned.

    He threatened her.

    Saul is his lawyer. It's his job to put the spin on. WW threatened. Saul interpreted.

    Yeah he did poison Brock (but didnt try to kill him) but the film makers pretty much went out of their way to show the threat towards Skylar wasn't genuine. Not just Saul's remark (who was very much not his lawyer at this point) but the fact there were tears streaming down Walt's face as he did it. The threat was for the police to hear so they wouldn't see Skylar as a partner in the crime business. So no he didn't really threaten Skylar I'm afraid.


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    #1161
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Yeah he did poison Brock (but didnt try to kill him) but the film makers pretty much went out of their way to show the threat towards Skylar wasn't genuine. Not just Saul's remark (who was very much not his lawyer at this point) but the fact there were tears streaming down Walt's face as he did it. The threat was for the police to hear so they wouldn't see Skylar as a partner in the crime business. So no he didn't really threaten Skylar I'm afraid.

    He did threaten her. There are just several ways of interpreting that threat. That's what makes it compelling writing.

    As for Brock, we don't actually know what his intentions were. We just know what he tells Jesse, and considering how much he manipulates Jesse, he hasn't much credibility there. We won't ever know what is intentions are.

    See I stopped believing anything out of his mouth back in Season 2.


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    #1162
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    look
    there is literally no way in hell walt was actually threatening skyler in that scene

    just.. no way. impossible. it would make more sense for walt to suddenly be abducted by aliens and the show to end right there, focused on a half eaten plate of mashed potatos.

    just, no.


    there's no second interpretation, there's no way around it.. he knew the police were there so he was trying to dig skyler out from the mountain of **** he'd dumped on top of her


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    #1163
    hurling_lad
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭hurling_lad


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

    A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......
    It's something that you'd expect to see in the climactic scene of a run-of-the-mill A-Team episode. I thought that it was a very lazy way of resolving things.


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    #1164
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    As I said poisoned.

    He threatened her.

    Saul is his lawyer. It's his job to put the spin on. WW threatened. Saul interpreted.

    It was made very obvious even during the phonecall itself that he knew the police were listening and was acting like that so that Skyler could portray herself as the poor threatened wife. Then the writers went out of their way to reinforce the idea with the Saul line in the next episode just in case anybody didn't get it. So there really is no other way to interpret it. I really don't know how that is even in question?

    Also there is no way earth he would have killed Hank. He would have turned himself in before doing that.


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    #1165
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    He did threaten her. There are just several ways of interpreting that threat. That's what makes it compelling writing.

    As for Brock, we don't actually know what his intentions were. We just know what he tells Jesse, and considering how much he manipulates Jesse, he hasn't much credibility there. We won't ever know what is intentions are.

    See I stopped believing anything out of his mouth back in Season 2.

    It is more of a grey area with Brock I admit, but there's no room for interpretation with the phone call. There may as well have been giant neon letters on screen saying it wasn't genuine. Even Skylar knew Walt didn't mean it, you really think she would have heard him out in the final episode otherwise?

    Walt's a ruthless bastard but when it came to family he's been fairly consistent through the whole series, Hank was the only person i thought he might do in at one point but in the end even Hank's death devastated him.

    This reminds me a bit of the way lots of people thought the ending of the last Batman film was all a dream even though the film went out of it's way to show it wasn't.


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    #1166
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,570 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Big Game wrote: »
    Much more implausible than a wheelchair bomb that gets set off by its occupant ringing a bell alright.....


    Yes, far more implausible. Spot on.


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    #1167
    Ernest
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭Ernest


    While not wishing to detract from the overall excellence of the series, I always had difficulty seeing Walt as "bad". Even to the end he remained to me the "hero" figure who did what he felt he had to do to survive and provide for his (ungrateful) family.


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    #1168
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    It is more of a grey area with Brock I admit, but there's no room for interpretation with the phone call. There may as well have been giant neon letters on screen saying it wasn't genuine. Even Skylar knew Walt didn't mean it, you really think she would have heard him out in the final episode otherwise?

    Walt's a ruthless bastard but when it came to family he's been fairly consistent through the whole series, Hank was the only person i thought he might do in at one point but in the end even Hank's death devastated him.

    This reminds me a bit of the way lots of people thought the ending of the last Batman film was all a dream even though the film went out of it's way to show it wasn't.

    It's interesting that we never actually see the possibility of that line getting crossed, whether WW would kill one of his own family so he could stay in control of the end of his life.

    At one point it looked like he considered Jesse family, after he was talking to Janes dad in the bar, and he rescued Jesse from his addiction and sent him to rehab. But when Jesse turned on him and was going to spoil his fun and report to the DEA, he ordered his kill.


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    #1169
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,570 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Another uber TV cliche was that Walt was shot by the machine gun, but he doesnt shot it but we dont realise it until the very end because our hero, despite being shot and despite being heavily medicated for advanced cancer, was able to get back up and hold a conversation with Jesse and then wander about the meth lab......before opening his jacket, Jesus like, to show his wounds.....

    A supposedly fatal wound, that allows him wander about as per normal for half an hour before collapsing in a heap.

    .


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    #1170
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Another uber TV cliche was that Walt was shot by the machine gun, but he doesnt shot it but we dont realise it until the very end because our hero, despite being shot and despite being heavily medicated for advanced cancer, was able to get back up and hold a conversation with Jesse and then wander about the meth lab......before opening his jacket, Jesus like, to show his wounds.....

    A supposedly fatal wound, that allows him wander about as per normal for half an hour before collapsing in a heap.

    .

    It showed him reacting to being shot and it showed the blood when he got up. And it showed Jesse noticing the wound. Pay attention!


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    #1171
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    It's interesting that we never actually see the possibility of that line getting crossed, whether WW would kill one of his own family so he could stay in control of the end of his life.

    At one point it looked like he considered Jesse family, after he was talking to Janes dad in the bar, and he rescued Jesse from his addiction and sent him to rehab. But when Jesse turned on him and was going to spoil his fun and report to the DEA, he ordered his kill.

    We did see that possibility in the desert in To'hajiilee. He had the chance to have Hank killed in order to maintain his freedom and remove the last person who might see him in jail. But he chose not to. He very specifically chose to hand himself over to the rest of his life in prison rather than kill him.

    He only ordered the hit on Jessie as he believed Jessie was going to kill him. Only when the point came where he believed Jessie was actively out to kill him, did he reluctantly give the go-ahead despite huge pressure to do so previously. Then, afterwards, he decided not to reprieve Jessie as he blamed him for Hank's death.


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