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Is there an implied xenophobia towards Northerners in Irish society

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  • #212
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    chopper6 wrote: »
    What's this "we" business?

    Are you claiming to speak for everybody or are you hearing voices again?

    Well, I agree with him, there..now there's 2. The aul fella can correctly and justifiably use the plural. God bless his patience.


  • #213
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    I am pie wrote: »
    Well, I agree with him, there..now there's 2. The aul fella can correctly and justifiably use the plural. God bless his patience.

    Please leave him out of it. It was/is all his fault anyway :D


  • #214
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    chopper6 wrote: »
    What's this "we" business?

    Are you claiming to speak for everybody or are you hearing voices again?

    Sigh. And now you resort to the hoary old chestnut that I must have a mental illness. You've been called out on your comments and decided that because some people don't much care for your views those people are "pretending to be pc".

    There's nothing pc about highlighting bigotry.


  • #215
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    old hippy wrote: »
    Sigh. And now you resort to the hoary old chestnut that I must have a mental illness. You've been called out on your comments and decided that because some people don't much care for your views those people are "pretending to be pc".

    There's nothing pc about highlighting bigotry.

    Huh?

    Sorry..i must've nodded off.

    Continue......


  • #216
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    This, possibly, is because of your own prejudice paranoia.

    No its pretty clear the way that you presumed that old hippy who had made clear he grew up the 26 counties was somehow a Paisleyite- no Paisleyite or flegger would pick that screen name. Ulster Scots can be incredibly funny as in witty and are often a lot less puritanical than their Scottish and Welsh brothers. You seem to be suggesting that the complex problems of the north come down to faulty DNA. If only it was that simple....


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  • #217
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    Of course people are different and in general, generalizations are correct. As a kid I used accompany my parents to antique hunts in Belfast staying overnight and returning on Sunday. No motorways in those days. On the way home as we passed village after village the only things that moved were the union jack flags (in the breeze), no children playing in the streets (except those of Nationalist parents). Two years ago I took some American friends to seer Dunluce Castle and Giant's Causeway. We took an off the beaten track route. In rural parts the mentality still lingers. Union jack flags far more obvious than Tricolours. And the dour and surly look in the faces of the few adults that ventured out.
    We stayed in three B&Bs. Two were obviously owned by people that lean towards the Union. While they were good, business-like and very courteous, they did not have the cheery atmosphere of the other which was run by a husband and wife with a very Irish sounding name. They were curious about our trip and were interesting conversationalists.

    If you were going on holidays and you had a choice in picking your travelling companions, who from the group below would you pick?

    Austrians, Northern Germans, Scots Irish, Finns, Southern Baptists

    OR

    Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, Brazilians, Bostonians

    As a person that likes fun and joie de vivre, I know which group I'd pick from.
    Does that make me prejudiced?
    I suppose there's bound to be a fortress mentality in Northern Ireland, given its recent past. But that isn't an accurate indication of what individuals are like.
    Yeh I'd agree there are nationalities that are more "craic" than other nationalities - generally speaking. But I still wouldn't hold that against individuals.


  • #218
    bbm1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 ✭bbm1


    I remember seeing something in the news just before the British Queen came to Ireland, and some older members of the Church of Ireland in Cork I think it was were asked if they were excited for the British Queen coming over. Their response was well why would it make any more difference to them if she came over since they are irish, it was a response i would love to hear from Protestants in the North. More then likely those Church of Ireland people in Cork families came over the same time as those in the North but one set could embrace irish life and become irish while the others clung to some sense of belonging to a British state which doesnt want too much to do with it.


  • #219
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,884 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    johnr1 wrote: »
    Yes, but equally, lots of Northern Irelanders don't like us or respect us very much either.

    I've spent quite a bit of time in all parts of Northern Ireland, I've done business with people from all communities there, and I've dated a gal from there in the past. I have not experienced such discrimination from people anywhere else in Euorope. I've had my car keyed there more than once, I've been blanked in a shop, refused b&b, had to listen to the most bigoted remarks about the "Roman Catholic Free State", and cheated in business deals there.

    I am obliged in my current job to go there multiple times for extended periods. Along with most of my colleagues, I can't stand the place or many of its inhabitants.

    What's your experience of the place been like?

    Would personally dread going there on business as a southerner. I think I'd find a new job before I'd do that. Your experiences are exactly how others I know described. Give me the English any day. On the whole I find them extremely pleasant and straight to deal with.


  • #220
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Some people are watching a bit too much Peaky Blinders! Sam Neill does a great job playing the stereotypical Ulster Protestant have to say, fire and brimstone, screaming about abominations and debauchery. Time stood still in a "Protestant state for a Protestant people" and 50 years later we got Paisley!

    There's a lot in common between both states in that time period, the big difference being COI people weren't seen as a threat to the state here. There was religious bigotry yes, but nothing near the discrimination Catholics got in the North. Gerrymandering in the South was just political parties up to ould tricks, in the North it was based on your religion, status and wealth, the last 2 always tied to the first.

    So you've the Nationalist section who feel they were left on their own by the South, and to a big extent that is true, the vast majority of people in the South didn't care about them between 1921 and 1969, and a large part of ROI dealings since is down to self interest, and not letting the Troubles seep down here. Then you've English people who don't really get Unionists, a bit ashamed of them really, just don't get it.

    I've found when you take the politics out of it, people from the North are like anybody else, all the same worries and hopes as everybody else.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #221
    markomuscle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭markomuscle


    road_high wrote: »
    Would personally dread going there on business as a southerner. I think I'd find a new job before I'd do that. Your experiences are exactly how others I know described. Give me the English any day. On the whole I find them extremely pleasant and straight to deal with.

    Funnily enough the only time i've been verbally abused in the street was when I moved to England, a fellow thought I was a foreigner and said he was going to smash my head in. What you said about leaving your job if you had to do business in NI is absolutely hilarious. If you came on business do you think you would be walking around some dodgy estate or something? you would most likely be in a town or city where you will find no bother.


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  • #222
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,884 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    markomuscle wrote: »
    Funnily enough the only time i've been verbally abused in the street was when I moved to England, a fellow thought I was a foreigner and said he was going to smash my head in. What you said about leaving your job if you had to do business in NI is absolutely hilarious.

    It might be to you but if I swear if I had to go to NI or deal with people from there on a regular basis I'd be gone to another job sharpish. Up there once for a course and it was more than enough. My COI work colleague had the exact same conclusion; cold, ignorant and rude were most of the people we met devoid of any sense of humour.


  • #223
    markomuscle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭markomuscle


    road_high wrote: »
    It might be to you but if I swear if I had to go to NI or deal with people from there on a regular basis I'd be gone to another job sharpish. Up there once for a course and it was more than enough. My COI work colleague had the exact same conclusion; cold, ignorant and rude were most of the people we met devoid of any sense of humour.

    i'm not going to try and get you to change your opinion as you obviously aren't going to, the only come back i have to that is that I know very humorous people in rural and urban northern ireland and as someone who spends most of their time in the place i don't agree with your views.


  • #224
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,884 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    markomuscle wrote: »
    i'm not going to try and get you to change your opinion as you obviously aren't going to, the only come back i have to that is that I know very humorous people in rural and urban northern ireland and as someone who spends most of their time in the place i don't agree with your views.

    I'm sure you're right and I have met many really lovely northerners. Many iof them were living down here though as it happens.
    For me I feel 1000 times more comfortable with work in England and English people compared to people from NI. Growing up in the ROI your connotations of the north are invariably negative so I would admit there is inbuilt bias there on my part. Or fear even...
    In the broad scheme of things I have to say though the north is not on many peoples radars down here at all, bar the odd break away or shopping trip. Other than that it's a curious irrelevance. I'd say most English would have a similar view. Only difference is they're paying for it...


  • #225
    Manassas61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    K-9 wrote: »
    Some people are watching a bit too much Peaky Blinders! Sam Neill does a great job playing the stereotypical Ulster Protestant have to say, fire and brimstone, screaming about abominations and debauchery. Time stood still in a "Protestant state for a Protestant people" and 50 years later we got Paisley!

    There's a lot in common between both states in that time period, the big difference being COI people weren't seen as a threat to the state here. There was religious bigotry yes, but nothing near the discrimination Catholics got in the North. Gerrymandering in the South was just political parties up to ould tricks, in the North it was based on your religion, status and wealth, the last 2 always tied to the first.

    So you've the Nationalist section who feel they were left on their own by the South, and to a big extent that is true, the vast majority of people in the South didn't care about them between 1921 and 1969, and a large part of ROI dealings since is down to self interest, and not letting the Troubles seep down here. Then you've English people who don't really get Unionists, a bit ashamed of them really, just don't get it.

    I've found when you take the politics out of it, people from the North are like anybody else, all the same worries and hopes as everybody else.
    The English politicians don't really believe in anything. Unionist politicians certainly do have strong convictions on different topics. And the English politicians are in no position to be ashamed of anyone with the amount of corruption they get up to and the expenses scandal.


  • #226
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Huh?

    Sorry..i must've nodded off.

    Continue......

    Great debating style. Inspirational. I imagine we'll have the "are you on drugs" retort trotted out next.


  • #227
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    old hippy wrote: »
    Great debating style. Inspirational. I imagine we'll have the "are you on drugs" retort trotted out next.

    Again with the 'we'.



    Anyway I'm not going to engage with you any further and you won't be getting a rise from me.

    Good day sir.


  • #228
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    Unionist politicians certainly do have strong convictions on different topics.

    Stalin had strong convictions too.

    Conservative Unionism can be pretty vile and many of the attitudes held by prominent Unionists, to issues like equality for gay people, are about two hundred years out of date.
    Unionist politicians have defeated a Sinn Féin bid to create marriage equality for gay couples in Northern Ireland. The votes of the Democratic Unionist party and Ulster Unionist party in the Stormont Assembly helped defeat a Sinn Féin motion backed by the SDLP, Alliance and the Green party.

    theguardian.com


  • #229
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Again with the 'we'.



    Anyway I'm not going to engage with you any further and you won't be getting a rise from me.

    Good day sir.

    A pleasure, it's always rewarding to expose bigots and see their argument collapse into a series of insults and finally, a storming off.

    Never let the bigots go unchallenged. Never.


  • #230
    bohsboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭bohsboy


    old hippy wrote: »
    A pleasure, it's always rewarding to expose bigots and see their argument collapse into a series of insults and finally, a storming off.

    Never let the bigots go unchallenged. Never.

    I thought he made some good points.


  • #231
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    bohsboy wrote: »
    I thought he made some good points.

    It's impossible to reason with somebody who has a chip on thier shoulder.


    People who shout about racism and bigotry at the drop of a hat are usually hiding a superiority complex based on egotism.


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  • #232
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I wonder why? :rolleyes:

    Probably because the 26ers sold them out even when they were in places of majority. Just a guess.


  • #233
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    old hippy wrote: »
    A pleasure, it's always rewarding to expose bigots and see their argument collapse into a series of insults and finally, a storming off.

    Never let the bigots go unchallenged. Never.

    Why are you so confrontational? Were you bullied as a child? Or are you just a grumpy old man?


  • #234
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    Why are you so confrontational? Were you bullied as a child? Or are you just a grumpy old man?

    As I said before, irrational hatreds and bigotry I shall always call the perpetrators on it.


  • #235
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    chopper6 wrote: »
    It's impossible to reason with somebody who has a chip on thier shoulder.


    People who shout about racism and bigotry at the drop of a hat are usually hiding a superiority complex based on egotism.

    Fantastic. Every cliche ticked off. The old "chip on the shoulder".

    You made some ignorant comments and got challenged on them. The problem lies with you and nobody else.


  • #236
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    The hippie* should stop assuming to speak for other contributors on this thread.

    (*Hippie is the correct spelling. Hippy means having large hips :-)


  • #237
    muck_raker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 17 ✭muck_raker


    chopper6 wrote: »
    It's impossible to reason with somebody who has a chip on thier shoulder.


    People who shout about racism and bigotry at the drop of a hat are usually hiding a superiority complex based on egotism.


    pointing to bigotry is a quick way - tool to shut down debate on various issues

    bigotry is often - sometimes present but accusations are overdone


  • #238
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    muck_raker wrote: »
    pointing to bigotry is a quick way - tool to shut down debate on various issues

    bigotry is often - sometimes present but accusations are overdone

    Possibly.

    I'd say another tool to dismiss any debate is to accuse people of being pc/having sanity issues/chip on shoulder or yawning at them.


  • #239
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    old hippy wrote: »
    Possibly.

    I'd say another tool to dismiss any debate is to accuse people of being pc/having sanity issues/chip on shoulder or yawning at them.

    Still banging away at the same old drum, I see.


  • #240
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    Still banging away at the same old drum, I see.

    As are you. But you've got form for it, eh?

    Calling me a Paisleyite and now the subtle drum reference. How clever.


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  • #241
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


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