The NOT TV licence thread

Ush1 · 30-09-2013 05:03PM

MadsL wrote: »

Because it isn't a TV licence tax, but a Support National Media and Arts tax.
You are capable of attending the National Concert Hall, or seeing an Irish independent film I assume?

Isn't three public shows already included per year at the NCH already with the current TV license?
I might not be capable or might not care for it.

MadsL wrote: »

I have disbanded RTE above - your taxes are managed by elected representives, so no, your phrase does not apply in the case I'm proposing.

I think you've cracked the whip too much. Only state interests would be an extremely limited scope, how much of that do RTE cover currently? There is also already a 24 hour news station.

I think RTE could be made more efficient in lots of ways under what ever banner name you like, but not by just taxing everyone.

MadsL · 30-09-2013 05:17PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Isn't three public shows already included per year at the NCH already with the current TV license?
I might not be capable or might not care for it.

I think you've cracked the whip too much. Only state interests would be an extremely limited scope, how much of that do RTE cover currently? There is also already a 24 hour news station.

I think RTE could be made more efficient in lots of ways under what ever banner name you like, but not by just taxing everyone.

The problem is that currently the law abiding are subsidising those leeching. The "I don't have a TV argument" doesn't stand up when people end up watching on line anyway.

Selling off RTE manages the objection about silly salaries, whilst retaining some good radio talent.

Surely each household should contribute to a National Arts output as described above?

mikom · 30-09-2013 05:24PM

MadsL wrote: »

The problem is that currently the law abiding are subsidising those leeching.

Terrible way to speak about those at Montrose.........

Ps. Lottie Ryan needs a new handbag.

120_Minutes · 30-09-2013 05:28PM

No, i do not support the broadcasting tax in any shape or form as i believe it to be a smokscreen to cover the fact that it is a tax on the internet. both the government and RTE know they're losing revenue to those that choose to ditch their TV and stream both legally and illegally.

It's unfair in its proposed state, and they're only doing it as a kneejerk reaction that along with the rollout of saorview has exposed an old loophole.

I propose the following for it to be fair.

non sky customers, with saorview - pay the tax (and have it priced fairly)
sky customers, with no saorview - no tax (they're already paying sky)
if you have broadband and you're paying the tax, then no VAT on your broadband bill.

If you've none of the above - no tax

I'm not going to pay VAT on my broadband bill AND a broadcasting charge, if i've no TV or no sky...just on the off chance i MIGHT use my broadband to stream domestic output.

I want the option to opt-out.

Notice the latest TV licence ads? there's not one TV in them....

Dont piss up my back and tell me it's raining.

MadsL · 30-09-2013 05:47PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

No, i do not support the broadcasting tax in any shape or form as i believe it to be a smokscreen to cover the fact that it is a tax on the internet. both the government and RTE know they're losing revenue to those that choose to ditch their TV and stream both legally and illegally.

It's unfair in its proposed state, and they're only doing it as a kneejerk reaction that along with the rollout of saorview has exposed an old loophole.

I propose the following for it to be fair.

non sky customers, with saorview - pay the tax (and have it priced fairly)
sky customers, with no saorview - no tax (they're already paying sky)
if you have broadband and you're paying the tax, then no VAT on your broadband bill.

If you've none of the above - no tax

I'm not going to pay VAT on my broadband bill AND a broadcasting charge, if i've no TV or no sky...just on the off chance i MIGHT use my broadband to stream domestic output.

I want the option to opt-out.

Notice the latest TV licence ads? there's not one TV in them....

Dont piss up my back and tell me it's raining.

Will Sky subsidise national event coverage?

Capt'n Midnight · 30-09-2013 05:48PM

RTÉ received €183.6 million in TV Licence revenue in 2011. As a result of an estimated 10%-15% evasion in the licence fee, RTÉ have sucessfully lobbied for a 'poll' tax style system.

Don't forget the slice that goes to AnPost even though TV ownership was up to 99% before dropping to 95% with the availability of broadband.

License fee breakdown - lots of fingers in the pie
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/this-is-exactly-how-your-tv-licence-fee-is-used-542836-Aug2012/

RTÉ One – €58.01
RTÉ Two – €31.21
RTÉ Radio One – €13.40
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta – €8.33
RTÉ Lyric FM – €4.79
RTÉ Performing Groups – €9.26
RTÉ Support for TG4 – €6.39
Broadcasting Authority of Ireland levy – €1.75
TG4 Deduction – €6.71
BCI Sound and Vision fund – €10.53
Collection Costs from An Post/Communications and Social Protection Departments – €9.62

Getting past the 18% evasion would save €28.8 http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coalition-hopes-160-fee-will-stop-tv-licence-freeloaders-29429484.html
Bypassing AnPost would save another €9.62
BCI can also take a hike - €10.53

we're up to €48.95 saved - that's €111 per household. And that's even before you trim the fat in RTE

And TV flippin' 3 can stop with the poor mouth, if ye want money just make some public service programs.

MadsL · 30-09-2013 05:53PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

BCI can also take a hike - €10.53

Someone needs to police the airwaves, no?

They also fund "high quality programmes on Irish culture, heritage and experience, and programmes to improve adult literacy."

As well as independent film funding, helping with industry sector training initiatives and the good practice in archiving broadcasts.

They seem good value to me.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-09-2013 05:58PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

I propose the following for it to be fair.

non sky customers, with saorview - pay the tax (and have it priced fairly)
sky customers, with no saorview - no tax (they're already paying sky)
if you have broadband and you're paying the tax, then no VAT on your broadband bill.

SKY would agree with you about the no tax seeing as how they don't pay any here. If they did instead of offshoreing it then the TV license would be less.

TV license is on the receiver, not the viewing.
It's like commercial rates or motor tax or car insurance, you still have to pay on the days you aren't using it

As for the no VAT on broadband , do you remember the M50 toll bridge. The EU funded the £300m road that led to the £30m bridge. Then we well paid for it in tolls. The we the taxpayers paid to buy it out, and paid for the tolling system and then paid the companies that collect the tolls and we still have to pay the tolls. Oh yeah because it's owned by the government businesses can no longer claim back the VAT or get bulk discount on the levy.

So dream on.

It's like the bin charges, and water charges, and household charge, and all the other charges for stuff that used to be free, it is a stealth tax. No ifs or buts about it.

And it's an equitable tax since rich and poor pay the same :mad::mad::mad:

NuckingFacker · 30-09-2013 06:01PM

RTE is shyte and I never watch it. If Discovery channel wants €100 I'll send it on. RTE can ask me hole. And "the Arts" can fack off and support itself. They never send me a cheque when I go to work and I'm a philestine anyway, so I care less if they starve or not.

MadsL · 30-09-2013 06:11PM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

RTE is shyte and I never watch it. If Discovery channel wants €100 I'll send it on. RTE can ask me hole. And "the Arts" can fack off and support itself. They never send me a cheque when I go to work and I'm a philestine anyway, so I care less if they starve or not.

"The Arts" create wealth through tourism, inward investment and jobs. Will we tell wealth, tourists, and jobs to fack off too?

Doc Ruby · 30-09-2013 06:18PM

MadsL wrote: »

Why, should Irish tax payers not support the arts? Film-making is a significant competitive advantage that Ireland has to bring jobs and investment income into the country.

Just do what they do in Germany, give big tax breaks to film makers. How do you think that talentless hack Uwe Boll keeps making movies.

Bipolar Joe · 30-09-2013 06:34PM

I'd like to see RTE either make it's revenue from advertising alone, or from the television license alone, not both. Advertising is NOT to the benefit of the public. It's extra revenue they can throw at already over paid Irish faces.

I do want to support the arts, given that I do think there's talent here in Ireland, but I would like to see some of the outrageous amount of cash given to those in RTE being given to small film makers, entertainment start ups, local music (Not just fiddle-dee-idle-dee bullshit, Ireland makes more than just that) and so on. I wouldn't go so far as to say the license is a scam, but you're DEFINITELY not getting your moneys worth out of it. When we have our national broadcaster repeatedly just making stuff up for their "Documentaries," I don't think I should have to give them shit. I don't watch RTE produced material, although I do listen to the radio a lot. Many, many things need to change for me to even consider paying up. Until then, they can get bent.

Mike 1972 · 30-09-2013 06:40PM

Why do people keep referring to RTE as "the national broadcaster" ?

Other national broadcasters are available.

jjbrien · 30-09-2013 07:01PM

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

The Republic has about the population of Greater Manchester. It's unfair to make comparisons like that.

Well BBC Northern Ireland makes some very good content and theres only 1.8 million people up there so it can be done.

RTE makes me cringe. They should really just sell it off would help with the national debt.

ScumLord · 30-09-2013 07:04PM

I just don't think RTE is worth the money and I despise being forced to pay for a service I don't use.

I would love to have a state broadcaster like the BBC that least put in the effort and didn't just pander to the lowest possible denominator. There's no art in RTEs content, it has no substance and really is no better than TV3 once you take away their budget for foreign programs.

I want a good state broadcaster, I don't think RTE have it in them though.

Jonny Blaze · 30-09-2013 07:07PM

I pretty much only watch bbc news 24.

Most of everything else on tv is rubbish and if I do have something to watch I watch it online.

Only really put the telly on when I eat my dinner and turn it off after.

Would have no interest in an irish news channel though.

MadYaker wrote: »

Almost.

I doubt there'd be much interest in a 24 hour irish news channel. Though. Does anybody actually watch those? Most of the time there is nothing newsworthy happening so they end up reporting rubbish.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-09-2013 09:25PM

MadsL wrote: »

Someone needs to police the airwaves, no?

They also fund "high quality programmes on Irish culture, heritage and experience, and programmes to improve adult literacy."

As well as independent film funding, helping with industry sector training initiatives and the good practice in archiving broadcasts.

They seem good value to me.

They have no control over SKY who are installed in 53% of homes.

You may have heard of Aifric ?
lists http://www.bai.ie/?page_id=1701

About 1/3 of the funding goes to programs only available if you have subscription to SKY (Setanta) or UPC ( DCTV / CCTV )

Roll the clock back and there was the mess over handing out radio licenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting_Authority_of_Ireland

In the case of the radio service, Century Radio, it went bankrupt within months, issues surround the then Minister for Justice and Communications Ray Burke were also raised as he sought to deregulate the system. In 1997 Radio Ireland won the contract for Ireland's commercial national Radio service, now Today FM. Meanwhile the selected contractor for the television service TV3, took eight years to find a backer before it finally went on air.

re TV3 taking 8 years, at that stage UTV got 30% of it's advertising from down south.

Fred Swanson · 30-09-2013 09:34PM

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-09-2013 09:37PM

When PBS was up against the ropes in the US in '69
They had this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q

Transcript here but it's worth looking at the video
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fredrogerssenatetestimonypbs.htm

and more recently it was Big Bird vs. Mitt Romney

PBS survived because it had very high profile programs that could justify the rest. I just don't see that from the BCI stuff

MadsL · 30-09-2013 09:41PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

When PBS was up against the ropes in the US in '69
They had this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q

Transcript here but it's worth looking at the video
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fredrogerssenatetestimonypbs.htm

and more recently it was Big Bird vs. Mitt Romney

PBS survived because it had very high profile programs that could justify the rest. I just don't see that from the BCI stuff

PBS also privately fund raise...many donate because it about the only 'liberal' media going, and that's a god thing and bad thing. It can be relentlessly liberal in outlook, sometimes compromising balance.

Mike 1972 · 30-09-2013 10:30PM

jjbrien wrote: »

They should really just sell it off would help with the national debt.

Would anyone want to buy it ?

Potatoeman · 30-09-2013 10:37PM

160 is pricey for what they supply. The TV licence should not be more than 100.

MadsL · 30-09-2013 10:39PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Would anyone want to buy it ?

Commercial Revenue 2011 €167.3 million (advertising etc)

shruikan2553 · 30-09-2013 10:55PM

MadsL wrote: »

The problem is that currently the law abiding are subsidising those leeching. The "I don't have a TV argument" doesn't stand up when people end up watching on line anyway.

Do we have any numbers suggesting those of us without a TV have a secret love of fair city?

The RTE player has ads anyway so that produces some income. I prefer paying 84 euro a year and getting netflix.

NuckingFacker · 01-10-2013 12:55AM

MadsL wrote: »

"The Arts" create wealth through tourism, inward investment and jobs. Will we tell wealth, tourists, and jobs to fack off too?

If they create wealth, why do they want a bit of mine? Go create so, knock yerselves out. I don't expect Graham Knuttle to send me a fiver every time I get the desire to build somthing..

MadsL · 01-10-2013 01:53AM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

If they create wealth, why do they want a bit of mine? Go create so, knock yerselves out. I don't expect Graham Knuttle to send me a fiver every time I get the desire to build somthing..

Do we need to do the whole explaining how economics works thing?

Culture creates jobs by fueling tourism and jobs within the sector, this boosts businesses, you indirectly benefit because the economy is improved, therefore you should be taxed on this economic benefit in order to fuel the cycle once more.

NuckingFacker · 01-10-2013 08:08AM

MadsL wrote: »

Do we need to do the whole explaining how economics works thing?

Culture creates jobs by fueling tourism and jobs within the sector, this boosts businesses, you indirectly benefit because the economy is improved, therefore you should be taxed on this economic benefit in order to fuel the cycle once more.

I doubt "we" do, but as I've said, this is a TV licence to support RTE, who I don't support... BTW, Mr Intelligence, you do realise the only arts they support are those within their circle of friends....if you are an artist outside that circle, tough titties..

Bacchus · 01-10-2013 09:07AM

You know what pisses me off, the RTE website. Take a look at the BBC news website and the RTE one. RTE is full of ads, taking up more screen space than actual content. This BIG MUSIC WEEK tripe is taking up another large chunk of space, leaving the actual news content as pretty much a footer in my browser. In the news section on the main page, they are squeezing in two headlines. Yes, RTE cannot compete with BBC in terms of production budgets for shows but even as simple a thing as a website, they c*ck it up. Either they want to be publically funded by this tax or they are a private organisation that relys on adverts. They shouldn't be both.

ScumLord · 01-10-2013 03:34PM

MadsL wrote: »

Do we need to do the whole explaining how economics works thing?

Culture creates jobs by fueling tourism and jobs within the sector, this boosts businesses, you indirectly benefit because the economy is improved, therefore you should be taxed on this economic benefit in order to fuel the cycle once more.

I wouldn't have thought anyone was coming to Ireland for the modern arts. Tourists come to Ireland to see beautiful scenery, drink a pint of guinness and see some ancient stuff in museums. Anyone in those upper classes that go to the likes of opera or orchestras aren't longing to go to Ireland to listen to some small Island orchestra to try and do it like the big boys on the continent.

Irelands art scene is pretty flaccid because you've nowhere to progress too, if your cutting edge enough to be a global success you'll scare RTE away, so you'll have to leave for a country that can appreciate your work. What's happening now in Ireland is content production, it's just making art for sale rather than an artist expressing themselves.

Wompa1 · 01-10-2013 04:02PM

MadsL wrote: »

PBS also privately fund raise...many donate because it about the only 'liberal' media going, and that's a god thing and bad thing. It can be relentlessly liberal in outlook, sometimes compromising balance.

Mmmmm...MSNBC?

There's also others who are more left of center than right.

In regards to RTE. Make it fair, charge a slight fee for radio to keep a method for emergency broadcasts and national interest stories. This should be minimal cost compared to today.

RTE should be subscription based. If it was me, I'd like to see TG4 supported by the tax payer.

On your whole supporting Indepedent movies, meh. When there's a will, there's a way. From what I can see RTE is a bit of an old boys club, if you want to get a job you go through certain agencies. After having worked with them for a short while (not acting or anything like that) it would have bolstered my opinion that they should be shut down!

The NOT TV licence thread

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