The NOT TV licence thread

MadsL

RTÉ received €183.6 million in TV Licence revenue in 2011. As a result of an estimated 10%-15% evasion in the licence fee, RTÉ have sucessfully lobbied for a 'poll' tax style system.

Would you support such taxation if such revenue could only be spend on:

1. TV Broadcasts of national importance. Political events, State events and State sports events coverage. NO OTHER TV subsidies and all RTÉ output would be sold off as commercial enterprise.

2. RTÉ would continue to broadcast RTÉ Radio 1, 2, Lyric and RnG.

3. A greater percentage of the fee than present (7%) say 10% would go to the BCI to give production grants for Irish independant film-making and broadcasting.

4. RTÉ Performing groups to be rebranded simply National and funded as before:

• RTÉ National Symphony Orchestra
• RTÉ National Concert Orchestra
• RTÉ National Vanbrugh Quartet
• RTÉ National Philharmonic Choir
• RTÉ Cór na nÓg (National Youth Choir)

5. RTÉ Publishing to continue as now (it is self funded)

6. RTÉ News to produce a free 24 hour Irish news channel and web presence broadcast via web streaming media/iTunes/Roku/SmartTV.


In this format, would you support a Media Tax - if so would €100 a household be acceptable?

Vinz Mesrine

I will never support any kind of entertainment tax, especially for a pathetic institution like RTE who are completely incapable of making a decent TV or Radio show.

Because of this i am in court in December and still have no intention of paying a TV licence or the ridiculous fine they will try to serve on me.

fl4pj4ck

I would pay a Radio license if there was one as I only listen to the radio from time to time.

MadsL

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I will never support any kind of entertainment tax, especially for a pathetic institution like RTE who are completely incapable of making a decent TV or Radio show.

Because of this i am in court in December and still have no intention of paying a TV licence or the ridiculous fine they will try to serve on me.

What becomes of the other arts? Independent film-making and music for instance?

MadYaker

MadsL wrote: »

What becomes of the other arts? Independent film-making and music for instance?

Fúck em.

Or come up with another way to fund them that doesn't involve RTE. I would like to see RTE privatised.

MadsL

MadYaker wrote: »

Fúck em.

Why, should Irish tax payers not support the arts? Film-making is a significant competitive advantage that Ireland has to bring jobs and investment income into the country.

"Feck em" seems a bit counter-productive?

Savoir.Faire

I believe in a state owned public service broadcaster, and I think RTE does a middling to reasonable job considering the circumstances. Lots of the ranting about RTE is the usual poor mouth stuff that some Irish people do for a living.

MadYaker

Yeah you re right, I should have thought before posting. I edited my original post.

I just really don't like RTE. I haven't ever paid for a TV license but this broadcasting charge will be unavoidable despite that fact that there is no TV in my house and I never listen to any of the muck RTE broadcast on the radio.

The RTE symphony orchestra are good though, Id pay to support them alright. But not all the idiot broadcasters in RTE on 6 figure salaries. Its a joke.

Vinz Mesrine

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

I believe in a state owned public service broadcaster, and I think RTE does a middling to reasonable job considering the circumstances. Lots of the ranting about RTE is the usual poor mouth stuff that some Irish people do for a living.

What circumstances?

They get millions upon millions a year through TV licence fees and advertising and as i already stated, are completely incapable of producing a decent show(apart from maybe Love/Hate). The Late Late Show? The Saturday Night Show? No thanks, id rather keep the money in my pocket instead of financing that garbage.

WilyCoyote

MadsL wrote: »

Why, should Irish tax payers not support the arts? Film-making is a significant competitive advantage that Ireland has to bring jobs and investment income into the country.

"Feck em" seems a bit counter-productive?

Could you please specify if it is a small F or large one in "arts".

MadsL

MadYaker wrote: »

I would like to see RTE privatised.

Isn't that what I am proposing above?

MadYaker

MadsL wrote: »

Isn't that what I am proposing above?

Almost.

I doubt there'd be much interest in a 24 hour irish news channel. Though. Does anybody actually watch those? Most of the time there is nothing newsworthy happening so they end up reporting rubbish.

Son Of A Vidic

MadYaker wrote: »

Fúck em.

I would like to support that motion.

Savoir.Faire

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

What circumstances?

They get millions upon millions a year through TV licence fees and advertising and as i already stated, are completely incapable of producing a decent show(apart from maybe Love/Hate). The Late Late Show? The Saturday Night Show? No thanks, id rather keep the money in my pocket instead of financing that garbage.

So you'd suggest they operate strictly using advertising revenue. What would be onus on them to produce things like Nationwide, The Documentary on One radio series, Art Lives and so forth?

It would end up like TV3 - Paul William's Celebrity Scumbag Lives. Where Paul goes undercover with Amanda Brunker and Gerald Kean to investigate what our celebrities get up to once the cameras are off. Episode one shows Brian Ormond scratching his ass and throwing a cigarette butt out the window of his car.

Tabnabs

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I would like to support that motion.

Seconded.

mikom

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

So you'd suggest they operate strictly using advertising revenue. What would be onus on them to produce things like Nationwide, The Documentary on One radio series, Art Lives and so forth?

It would end up like TV3 - Paul William's Celebrity Scumbag Lives. Where Paul goes undercover with Amanda Brunker and Gerald Kean to investigate what our celebrities get up to once the cameras are off. Episode one shows Brian Ormond scratching his ass and throwing a cigarette butt out the window of his car.

Brian Ormond is on the RTE books, so if he is scratching his ass then it will be a public funded scratch.

There was no culture or arts in Ireland before RTE............ or so they would have you believe.
When the Late Late show is showing multiple youtube clips like it did last Friday night, it's easy to see that creativity there is dead.

SEPT 23 1989

Give us something that resembles the standard of the BBC and we might have less of a problem paying it

Vinz Mesrine

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

So you'd suggest they operate strictly using advertising revenue. What would be onus on them to produce things like Nationwide, The Documentary on One radio series, Art Lives and so forth?

It would end up like TV3 - Paul William's Celebrity Scumbag Lives. Where Paul goes undercover with Amanda Brunker and Gerald Kean to investigate what our celebrities get up to once the cameras are off. Episode one shows Brian Ormond scratching his ass and throwing a cigarette butt out the window of his car.

Is that any less entertaining than what they show already?

sbsquarepants

MadYaker wrote: »

.

The RTE symphony orchestra are good though, Id pay to support them alright. But not all the idiot broadcasters in RTE on 6 figure salaries. Its a joke.

Not so good as they don't loose something like 20grand a week or something crazy like that - if they were all that great they'd be able to make money at it surely?
Why should tax payers subsidise that, but not hip hop, or dance music? It's elitist bolloxology is all it is.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

Isn't that what I am proposing above?

A tax is not privatisation no

Ush1

No since if you don't avail of a service you shouldn't have to pay for it. No taxation without representation. Spend some of their money on better means of detecting evasion.

MadsL

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Could you please specify if it is a small F or large one in "arts".

You have no support for Irish independent film productions like Intermission, Once, Adam & Paul, Agnes Brown, Breakfast on Pluto and the like??

Could you specify if I should insert an F for these acclaimed films?

Savoir.Faire

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Give us something that resembles the standard of the BBC and we might have less of a problem paying it

The Republic has about the population of Greater Manchester. It's unfair to make comparisons like that.

MadsL

Ush1 wrote: »

No taxation without representation.

The phrase is taxation without representation is tyranny, and certainly doesn't apply here.

Fratton Fred

MadsL wrote: »

Why, should Irish tax payers not support the arts? Film-making is a significant competitive advantage that Ireland has to bring jobs and investment income into the country.

"Feck em" seems a bit counter-productive?

I believe we should support the arts, but some weird dancing band of New age alternative shaven headed albinos who would rather pretend their artists than get a proper job?

**** em.

MadsL

bluewolf wrote: »

A tax is not privatisation no

I'm proposing splitting the funding, and only funding National events as TV production, plus a web news function.

The commercial aspects of RTE being sold off.

Ush1

MadsL wrote: »

The phrase is taxation without representation is tyranny, and certainly doesn't apply here.

No the phrase is what I said before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation

And why doesn't it apply? If I don't have a means of receiving the service I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Am I taxed? Yes. Does RTE represent me? No.

Savoir.Faire

mikom wrote: »

Brian Ormond is on the RTE books, so if he is scratching his ass then it will be a public funded scratch.

There was no culture or arts in Ireland before RTE............ or so they would have you believe.
When the Late Late show is showing multiple youtube clips like it did last Friday night, it's easy to see that creativity there is dead.

Apart from an occasional nod by Newstalk (generously funded by Denis O'Brien) none of the independents dedicate much time to contemporary Irish History, art or the Irish language. When I see Spin 103 create a meticulously researched and produced 3 part radio series on the 1913 lockout then I might reappraise my decision.

MadsL

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I believe we should support the arts, but some weird dancing band of New age alternative shaven headed albinos who would rather pretend their artists than get a proper job?

**** em.

Which "weird dancing band of New age alternative shaven headed albinos" got TV licencing funding last year, I must have missed that show. Shame, sounds interesting

MadsL

Ush1 wrote: »

No the phrase is what I said before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation

Stand corrected.

And why doesn't it apply? If I don't have a means of receiving the service I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Because it isn't a TV licence tax, but a Support National Media and Arts tax.
You are capable of attending the National Concert Hall, or seeing an Irish independent film I assume?

Am I taxed? Yes. Does RTE represent me? No.

I have disbanded RTE above - your taxes are managed by elected representives, so no, your phrase does not apply in the case I'm proposing.

SEPT 23 1989

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

The Republic has about the population of Greater Manchester. It's unfair to make comparisons like that.

Amazing how much great TV and radio has come out of Manchester over the years

population size was never the problem its the lack of real talent feeding at the Montrose trough

Ush1

MadsL wrote: »

Because it isn't a TV licence tax, but a Support National Media and Arts tax.
You are capable of attending the National Concert Hall, or seeing an Irish independent film I assume?

Isn't three public shows already included per year at the NCH already with the current TV license?
I might not be capable or might not care for it.

MadsL wrote: »

I have disbanded RTE above - your taxes are managed by elected representives, so no, your phrase does not apply in the case I'm proposing.

I think you've cracked the whip too much. Only state interests would be an extremely limited scope, how much of that do RTE cover currently? There is also already a 24 hour news station.

I think RTE could be made more efficient in lots of ways under what ever banner name you like, but not by just taxing everyone.

MadsL

Ush1 wrote: »

Isn't three public shows already included per year at the NCH already with the current TV license?
I might not be capable or might not care for it.



I think you've cracked the whip too much. Only state interests would be an extremely limited scope, how much of that do RTE cover currently? There is also already a 24 hour news station.

I think RTE could be made more efficient in lots of ways under what ever banner name you like, but not by just taxing everyone.

The problem is that currently the law abiding are subsidising those leeching. The "I don't have a TV argument" doesn't stand up when people end up watching on line anyway.

Selling off RTE manages the objection about silly salaries, whilst retaining some good radio talent.

Surely each household should contribute to a National Arts output as described above?

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

The problem is that currently the law abiding are subsidising those leeching.

Terrible way to speak about those at Montrose.........

Ps. Lottie Ryan needs a new handbag.

120_Minutes

No, i do not support the broadcasting tax in any shape or form as i believe it to be a smokscreen to cover the fact that it is a tax on the internet. both the government and RTE know they're losing revenue to those that choose to ditch their TV and stream both legally and illegally.

It's unfair in its proposed state, and they're only doing it as a kneejerk reaction that along with the rollout of saorview has exposed an old loophole.

I propose the following for it to be fair.

non sky customers, with saorview - pay the tax (and have it priced fairly)
sky customers, with no saorview - no tax (they're already paying sky)
if you have broadband and you're paying the tax, then no VAT on your broadband bill.

If you've none of the above - no tax

I'm not going to pay VAT on my broadband bill AND a broadcasting charge, if i've no TV or no sky...just on the off chance i MIGHT use my broadband to stream domestic output.

I want the option to opt-out.

Notice the latest TV licence ads? there's not one TV in them....

Dont piss up my back and tell me it's raining.

MadsL

120_Minutes wrote: »

No, i do not support the broadcasting tax in any shape or form as i believe it to be a smokscreen to cover the fact that it is a tax on the internet. both the government and RTE know they're losing revenue to those that choose to ditch their TV and stream both legally and illegally.

It's unfair in its proposed state, and they're only doing it as a kneejerk reaction that along with the rollout of saorview has exposed an old loophole.

I propose the following for it to be fair.

non sky customers, with saorview - pay the tax (and have it priced fairly)
sky customers, with no saorview - no tax (they're already paying sky)
if you have broadband and you're paying the tax, then no VAT on your broadband bill.

If you've none of the above - no tax

I'm not going to pay VAT on my broadband bill AND a broadcasting charge, if i've no TV or no sky...just on the off chance i MIGHT use my broadband to stream domestic output.

I want the option to opt-out.

Notice the latest TV licence ads? there's not one TV in them....

Dont piss up my back and tell me it's raining.

Will Sky subsidise national event coverage?

Capt'n Midnight

RTÉ received €183.6 million in TV Licence revenue in 2011. As a result of an estimated 10%-15% evasion in the licence fee, RTÉ have sucessfully lobbied for a 'poll' tax style system.

Don't forget the slice that goes to AnPost even though TV ownership was up to 99% before dropping to 95% with the availability of broadband.

License fee breakdown - lots of fingers in the pie
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/this-is-exactly-how-your-tv-licence-fee-is-used-542836-Aug2012/

RTÉ One – €58.01
RTÉ Two – €31.21
RTÉ Radio One – €13.40
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta – €8.33
RTÉ Lyric FM – €4.79
RTÉ Performing Groups – €9.26
RTÉ Support for TG4 – €6.39
Broadcasting Authority of Ireland levy – €1.75
TG4 Deduction – €6.71
BCI Sound and Vision fund – €10.53
Collection Costs from An Post/Communications and Social Protection Departments – €9.62

Getting past the 18% evasion would save €28.8 http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coalition-hopes-160-fee-will-stop-tv-licence-freeloaders-29429484.html
Bypassing AnPost would save another €9.62
BCI can also take a hike - €10.53

we're up to €48.95 saved - that's €111 per household. And that's even before you trim the fat in RTE



And TV flippin' 3 can stop with the poor mouth, if ye want money just make some public service programs.

MadsL

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

BCI can also take a hike - €10.53

Someone needs to police the airwaves, no?

They also fund "high quality programmes on Irish culture, heritage and experience, and programmes to improve adult literacy."

As well as independent film funding, helping with industry sector training initiatives and the good practice in archiving broadcasts.

They seem good value to me.

Capt'n Midnight

120_Minutes wrote: »

I propose the following for it to be fair.

non sky customers, with saorview - pay the tax (and have it priced fairly)
sky customers, with no saorview - no tax (they're already paying sky)
if you have broadband and you're paying the tax, then no VAT on your broadband bill.

SKY would agree with you about the no tax seeing as how they don't pay any here. If they did instead of offshoreing it then the TV license would be less.


TV license is on the receiver, not the viewing.
It's like commercial rates or motor tax or car insurance, you still have to pay on the days you aren't using it


As for the no VAT on broadband , do you remember the M50 toll bridge. The EU funded the £300m road that led to the £30m bridge. Then we well paid for it in tolls. The we the taxpayers paid to buy it out, and paid for the tolling system and then paid the companies that collect the tolls and we still have to pay the tolls. Oh yeah because it's owned by the government businesses can no longer claim back the VAT or get bulk discount on the levy.

So dream on.


It's like the bin charges, and water charges, and household charge, and all the other charges for stuff that used to be free, it is a stealth tax. No ifs or buts about it.

And it's an equitable tax since rich and poor pay the same :mad::mad::mad:

NuckingFacker

RTE is shyte and I never watch it. If Discovery channel wants €100 I'll send it on. RTE can ask me hole. And "the Arts" can fack off and support itself. They never send me a cheque when I go to work and I'm a philestine anyway, so I care less if they starve or not.

MadsL

NuckingFacker wrote: »

RTE is shyte and I never watch it. If Discovery channel wants €100 I'll send it on. RTE can ask me hole. And "the Arts" can fack off and support itself. They never send me a cheque when I go to work and I'm a philestine anyway, so I care less if they starve or not.

"The Arts" create wealth through tourism, inward investment and jobs. Will we tell wealth, tourists, and jobs to fack off too?

Doc Ruby

MadsL wrote: »

Why, should Irish tax payers not support the arts? Film-making is a significant competitive advantage that Ireland has to bring jobs and investment income into the country.

Just do what they do in Germany, give big tax breaks to film makers. How do you think that talentless hack Uwe Boll keeps making movies.

Bipolar Joe

I'd like to see RTE either make it's revenue from advertising alone, or from the television license alone, not both. Advertising is NOT to the benefit of the public. It's extra revenue they can throw at already over paid Irish faces.

I do want to support the arts, given that I do think there's talent here in Ireland, but I would like to see some of the outrageous amount of cash given to those in RTE being given to small film makers, entertainment start ups, local music (Not just fiddle-dee-idle-dee bullshit, Ireland makes more than just that) and so on. I wouldn't go so far as to say the license is a scam, but you're DEFINITELY not getting your moneys worth out of it. When we have our national broadcaster repeatedly just making stuff up for their "Documentaries," I don't think I should have to give them shit. I don't watch RTE produced material, although I do listen to the radio a lot. Many, many things need to change for me to even consider paying up. Until then, they can get bent.

Mike 1972

Why do people keep referring to RTE as "the national broadcaster" ?

Other national broadcasters are available.

jjbrien

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

The Republic has about the population of Greater Manchester. It's unfair to make comparisons like that.

Well BBC Northern Ireland makes some very good content and theres only 1.8 million people up there so it can be done.

RTE makes me cringe. They should really just sell it off would help with the national debt.

ScumLord

I just don't think RTE is worth the money and I despise being forced to pay for a service I don't use.

I would love to have a state broadcaster like the BBC that least put in the effort and didn't just pander to the lowest possible denominator. There's no art in RTEs content, it has no substance and really is no better than TV3 once you take away their budget for foreign programs.

I want a good state broadcaster, I don't think RTE have it in them though.

Jonny Blaze

I pretty much only watch bbc news 24.

Most of everything else on tv is rubbish and if I do have something to watch I watch it online.

Only really put the telly on when I eat my dinner and turn it off after.

Would have no interest in an irish news channel though.

MadYaker wrote: »

Almost.

I doubt there'd be much interest in a 24 hour irish news channel. Though. Does anybody actually watch those? Most of the time there is nothing newsworthy happening so they end up reporting rubbish.

Capt'n Midnight

MadsL wrote: »

Someone needs to police the airwaves, no?

They also fund "high quality programmes on Irish culture, heritage and experience, and programmes to improve adult literacy."

As well as independent film funding, helping with industry sector training initiatives and the good practice in archiving broadcasts.

They seem good value to me.

They have no control over SKY who are installed in 53% of homes.

You may have heard of Aifric ?
lists http://www.bai.ie/?page_id=1701

About 1/3 of the funding goes to programs only available if you have subscription to SKY (Setanta) or UPC ( DCTV / CCTV )

Roll the clock back and there was the mess over handing out radio licenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting_Authority_of_Ireland

In the case of the radio service, Century Radio, it went bankrupt within months, issues surround the then Minister for Justice and Communications Ray Burke were also raised as he sought to deregulate the system. In 1997 Radio Ireland won the contract for Ireland's commercial national Radio service, now Today FM. Meanwhile the selected contractor for the television service TV3, took eight years to find a backer before it finally went on air.

re TV3 taking 8 years, at that stage UTV got 30% of it's advertising from down south.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight

When PBS was up against the ropes in the US in '69
They had this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q

Transcript here but it's worth looking at the video
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fredrogerssenatetestimonypbs.htm

and more recently it was Big Bird vs. Mitt Romney

PBS survived because it had very high profile programs that could justify the rest. I just don't see that from the BCI stuff

MadsL

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

When PBS was up against the ropes in the US in '69
They had this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q

Transcript here but it's worth looking at the video
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fredrogerssenatetestimonypbs.htm

and more recently it was Big Bird vs. Mitt Romney

PBS survived because it had very high profile programs that could justify the rest. I just don't see that from the BCI stuff

PBS also privately fund raise...many donate because it about the only 'liberal' media going, and that's a god thing and bad thing. It can be relentlessly liberal in outlook, sometimes compromising balance.