British to make people work for their dole

Legs.Eleven · 30-09-2013 11:44AM

Jester252 wrote: »

At least this would be a better scheme than Jobbridge. It would create jobs in companies that would just exploit Jobbridge and make the area a nicer place to live. It works in Spain why not here. Also its worth pointing out that the scheme in the UK is aim at people who have been on the dole for 3 or more years.

What scheme are you talking about in Spain? It doesn't exist here (although like the UK, the right-wing government in power are discussing it).

ThePieintheSky · 30-09-2013 11:46AM

Agricola wrote: »

Im sure there are people long term unemployed who have no desire to work. That was the case during the boom and it is the case now. But would that be the vast majority? Of course not.

Disingenuos.

Whether it's the majority or not is not the point. It shouldn't be allowed to happen regardless that those who have no intention of ever getting work can just stay on the dole.

That just should not be allowed no matter how many there are out there. And we are all aware of people like that.

30-09-2013 11:49AM

I wish they'd just do a % of income and reduce it over a couple years like elsewhere. Keep the whole volunteer thing separate and provide contacts and assistance in applying for them only

SCOOP 64 · 30-09-2013 11:53AM

Compu Global Hyper Meganet wrote: »

It's easy to look at this and point out the parasites leeching off taxpayer money. However, it's worth noting that in the current environment there are plenty of people who have been laid off and have taken it very hard. Psychologically, a lot of people (particularly those who have been working all of their lives) identify with their jobs and their self esteem plummets when they are made redundant. Instances of extreme depression can result.

Remember the guy (I think it was in Cork) who killed himself and his daughter after being let go a few years ago? An extreme example, but it just goes to show the negative impact that this can have. Now, if a scheme was to be introduced which would allow these people to work for their benefits, that would be great. They could hold their heads high in society and the stigma that many associate with the dole would dissipate over time.

Unfortunately, policing such a scheme would prove incredibly difficult and the costs of enforcement would lead to a false economy for the government so I can't see it happening.

I Will have to disagree with you on this abit, so a person will be able to hold their heads up high in society . as the neighbour sees you on the main st,
"theres Joe picking up rubbish, yeah thats him, hes claiming dole so they get him to do it, give him a wave" hi Joe", i say he feels a million dollars now!
but yet if was full time job with a fair days pay,then he could be happy.

Tiddlypeeps · 30-09-2013 11:56AM

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

I Will have to disagree with you on this abit, so a person will be able to hold their heads up high in society . as the neighbour sees you on the main st,
"theres Joe picking up rubbish, yeah thats him, hes claiming dole so they get him to do it, give him a wave" hi Joe", i say he feels a million dollars now!
but yet if was full time job with a fair days pay,then he would be happy.

Do you actually look down on people who clean public places for a living?

SCOOP 64 · 30-09-2013 12:06PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Do you actually look down on people who clean public places for a living?

You Miss quote me, as i said if it were a full time job with a fairdays pay picking up up the rubbish the coverstion would be different,
"theirs joe picking up rubbish, yeah got himself a job with the council after being unemployed a long while. "fair play to him".
He will feel alot better, then people thinking ,the social got him to do it because hes claiming the dole.

Caliden · 30-09-2013 12:16PM

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

You Miss quote me, as i said if it were a full time job with a fairdays pay picking up up the rubbish the coverstion would be different,
"theirs joe picking up rubbish, yeah got himself a job with the council after being unemployed a long while. "fair play to him".
He will feel alot better, then people thinking ,the social got him to do it because hes claiming the dole.

Will he be wearing a sign that says : "On the Dole" and then another when he gets a job that says "Workin' with the Council Yeeeoooww!" ?

As someone mentioned already, volunteer groups could greatly benefit from this and there's no 'slave labour' involved or the risk of taking away someone's paid job.

kylith · 30-09-2013 12:18PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Do you actually look down on people who clean public places for a living?

I don't, but there'll always be some who'll see it as a comeuppance for someone they resented for a perceived slight, or 'He thought he was so important, now he empties the bins, haha.'

And not even looking down on, but pitying. "There's Joe, used to be a manager down in Corliss & Sweeney. Now he picks up rubbish for pittance, poor Joe".

SCOOP 64 · 30-09-2013 12:22PM

Caliden wrote: »

Will he be wearing a sign that says : "On the Dole" and then another when he gets a job that says "Workin' with the Council Yeeeoooww!" ?

As someone mentioned already, volunteer groups could greatly benefit from this and there's no 'slave labour' involved or the risk of taking away someone's paid job.

Didn't know it had all ready been decided, and this will come with guarantees?
Only answer to create full time unskilled work with pay to get them of the dole.
you mention "volunteer" what does this mean?

Stojkovic · 30-09-2013 12:24PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

I think we have a lot of closeted right wing Tories lurking on boards.

No.
Just hard working taxpayers who aren't lazy smelly scrounging dutch gold jonnie blues with 9 lazy smelly scrounging thieving kids.

I agree with the chain gang for prisoners.

Someone mentioned camps ...mmmm....
The Dutch introduced this recently for unruly tenants.

Jester252 · 30-09-2013 12:26PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

What scheme are you talking about in Spain? It doesn't exist here (although like the UK, the right-wing government in power are discussing it).

While not the same the Spanish dole requires you to work for it. You must have worked to be entitled to it so young people are forced to live at home. You only have 15 days after losing your job to apply or you lose all entitlement. You get 70% of your wages for 4 months of dole per year of work. The amount drops to 60% after six months and after your period of dole is up you can claim 6 months of family benfit. (18 if you have a child)

Which scheme is better? One where you might only get 10 months of support or one where you get two years of support regardless of work experience and full support indefinite as long as you do 30 hours of community work or attend a job centre every day

sbsquarepants · 30-09-2013 12:27PM

godtabh wrote: »

should be the way its done. A lot of volunteer groups could benefit from this

Isn't forced volunteering just a nicer way of saying slavery?

My name is URL · 30-09-2013 12:27PM

Will they also be paying for the childcare costs for parents who are being forced to work for £60 odd per week.. or will grandparents have their pensions withheld if they refuse to babysit?!

nxbyveromdwjpg · 30-09-2013 12:33PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Isn't forced volunteering just a nicer way of saying slavery?

Not if they get paid fairly, no. They're not forced either.

Caliden · 30-09-2013 12:36PM

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Didn't know it had all ready been decided, and this will come with guarantees?
Only answer to create full time unskilled work with pay to get them of the dole.

Who is this 'them' you are referring about?

The original article concerned people in Britain on social welfare for 3 or more years.
Now I'm not tarring people (those capable of working of course) who have been out of work for 3+ years with the same brush but if you're 3 years unemployed you should contribute to society in some way, shape or form.

Then there's the very small % of people who are 'lifers' and have no intention of ever working.

Of course the answer is to create jobs....but that doesn't happen overnight.

Investigating social welfare fraud is expensive and instead of trying to 'reinvent the wheel' we should look to our neighbours and see how they deal the issue. This plan Britain could have the effect of doing that while at the same time, give those who are 3+ years on social welfare the opportunity to feel like they are a part of something.

If you've ever done volunteer work it might help you understand but it does help you feel good, both for yourself and the people you are helping.

Legs.Eleven · 30-09-2013 12:38PM

Jester252 wrote: »

While not the same the Spanish dole requires you to work for it. You must have worked to be entitled to it so young people are forced to live at home. You only have 15 days after losing your job to apply or you lose all entitlement. You get 70% of your wages for 4 months of dole per year of work. The amount drops to 60% after six months and after your period of dole is up you can claim 6 months of family benfit. (18 if you have a child)

Which scheme is better? One where you might only get 10 months of support or one where you get two years of support regardless of work experience and full support indefinite as long as you do 30 hours of community work or attend a job centre every day

You're talking about something different though.

I thought you were saying there was a similar scheme where the unemployed to do "volunteer work" for their dole? That's what were talking about here. The unemployed have limited dole depending on how long they worked but they don't have to do volunteer work or any kind of work once they're unemployed (although the black market is booming in Spain).

Edit: What you're talking about is disastrous in Spain and has only encouraged a rise in the already MASSIVE black market (no tax contributions paid, obviously), poverty, parents on tiny pensions supporting their grown children, crime, desperation, mass protests, homelessness, drug addiction etc. The country is going down the ****ter and the reason is there is no social support for the people (2 years dole max and then they're on their own - there's no jobs in the country ffs and people can't emigrate to English-speaking countries with booming economies like we can). If you think Ireland's bad..

tosspot15 · 30-09-2013 12:38PM

I cant see many voluntary groups benefitting from this. No volunteer group wants some randomer thats not dedicated, half assed, and that they dont know.

KyussBishop · 30-09-2013 12:38PM

Next step is to give them proper wages (based on minimum wage - perfect time to boost minimum wage as well), and start introducing more economically beneficial work like infrastructural development (and in general, work which can take advantage of at least some of the unemployed peoples skills, without competing with the private sector), then start boosting the economy through such a jobs program, and offer such a set of jobs to anyone who'd want it.

Unlike most of Europe, caught within the Euro and the crisis with that currency, there is no impediment to the UK doing this and pumping a huge amount of money into the economy to boost demand. If done right (which I'm not convinced this current program is), then this could be very good for the UK.

sbsquarepants · 30-09-2013 12:40PM

nm wrote: »

Not if they get paid fairly, no. They're not forced either.

Sorry, I've only skimmed the thread so this may well have been covered already - but what is getting paid fairly? Surely anything below minimum wage is not fair. And if the streets and parks etc. are to be cleaned by roving bands of dollies, what happens to the people whose jobs it is now to clean the streets and parks? Are they to be put on the dole and told to do their former job anyway, but for their new dole rate?

Bog Standard User · 30-09-2013 12:41PM

matt-dublin wrote: »

I've been saying we should be doing something similar to this for years.

So why haven't we done it? Might actually get some of the long term unemployed who use the system to avoid getting jobs.

i can see this being wide open to abuse. not much different to jobsbridge

SCOOP 64 · 30-09-2013 12:45PM

Caliden wrote: »

Who is this 'them' you are referring about?

The original article concerned people in Britain on social welfare for 3 or more years.
Now I'm not tarring people (those capable of working of course) who have been out of work for 3+ years with the same brush but if you're 3 years unemployed you should contribute to society in some way, shape or form.

Then there's the very small % of people who are 'lifers' and have no intention of ever working.

Of course the answer is to create jobs....but that doesn't happen overnight.

Investigating social welfare fraud is expensive and instead of trying to 'reinvent the wheel' we should look to our neighbours and see how they deal the issue. This plan Britain could have the effect of doing that while at the same time, give those who are 3+ years on social welfare the opportunity to feel like they are a part of something.

If you've ever done volunteer work it might help you understand but it does help you feel good, both for yourself and the people you are helping.

Agreed volunteering to do work, will make people feel better, because its somethink YOU wanted to do. last thing these places need is someone who is only doing it because of being told to do it by social, and have no interest.
maybe keep the volunteering part on it, not compulsory.

,

anncoates · 30-09-2013 12:48PM

I must say I'm quite confused as to why the Tories of all people would try to deceitfully massage unemployment figures downwards while providing state-subsidized slave labour for private business.

sbsquarepants · 30-09-2013 12:54PM

tosspot15 wrote: »

I cant see many voluntary groups benefitting from this. No volunteer group wants some randomer thats not dedicated, half assed, and that they dont know.

Bog Standard User wrote: »

i can see this being wide open to abuse. not much different to jobsbridge

Exactly, if something like this every did go ahead, you can be damn sure that it would be twisted and skewed to bolster the profits of multinationals, not to benefit the citizens of the country in any way.

Legs.Eleven · 30-09-2013 12:58PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Sorry, I've only skimmed the thread so this may well have been covered already - but what is getting paid fairly? Surely anything below minimum wage is not fair. And if the streets and parks etc. are to be cleaned by roving bands of dollies, what happens to the people whose jobs it is now to clean the streets and parks? Are they to be put on the dole and told to do their former job anyway, but for their new dole rate?

As if people have actually thought about the practicalities and logistics of it and engaged their brains a bit before extolling the greatness of the idea. :rolleyes:

Annasopra · 30-09-2013 01:06PM

matt-dublin wrote: »

This can be refused with a decent excuse.: I'm allergic to old people

No it can't - I work in the area and if you turn it down your dole gets cut

Annasopra · 30-09-2013 01:08PM

matt-dublin wrote: »

They only have to prove they're looking for work, I used to know a lad who knew his local spar manager. He used to go to him every few weeks and get a letter off him saying sorry the role you've applied for has been filled.

I know someone else whose payment was cut for doing similar to that

Annasopra · 30-09-2013 01:12PM

tosspot15 wrote: »

I cant see many voluntary groups benefitting from this.

They do already - its called TUS

matt-dublin · 30-09-2013 01:12PM

mango salsa wrote: »

No it can't - I work in the area and if you turn it down your dole gets cut

then why aren't they pushing it more???

sparksfly · 30-09-2013 01:13PM

Mince Pie wrote: »

So how exactly are the same people supposed to look for jobs if they are busy out doing another persons job for nothing?
Ridiculous proposal.

Stupid statement, people in full time jobs are able to change their jobs. This is just another excuse for laziness.

Annasopra · 30-09-2013 01:20PM

matt-dublin wrote: »

then why aren't they pushing it more???

They are doing so - it is being expanded

British to make people work for their dole

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