serving a pregnant woman

Abigayle · 27-09-2013 09:10PM

Henwin wrote: »

half heard a story on the radio today bout a lady who was goin for a quick drink after work with friends, she was heavily pregnant at the time. the bartender refused to serve her. she got the hump and later complained i think. so he had to issue an apology,
what wud you do if you wer a bartender and a pregnant woman came in looking for an alcoholic drink? i wouldnt serve her

I personally would find it hard too. I've never served behind a counter and never could.

Henwin wrote: »

yes she can, but her baby cant.

And this is why. A mother makes choices for her baby.

I actually don't want to hear the "my mother did this that and the other while pregnant with me, but I'm fine" stories, because as far as I'm concerned not everybody is as lucky.

I was born in the 70's to parents where there was not as much awareness of the damaging effects of cigarettes or alcohol, but it is everywhere nowadays. My mother took the very odd drink but she did smoke a few a day throughout her pregnancy. It's unusual for a first child to come on time, normally mothers nowadays go over. I'm one of the examples they talk about when they say your child can be born prematurely on cigarette packages. I was the first of my siblings born a month too early and badly underweight.

As far as I'm concerned, addictive substances should be avoided through pregnancy just to be sure, and because you're chosing for your baby too. It's the least a mother can do for their unborn child.

If the 'crossing the placenta' bit doesn't convince the mother, then the sharp reality of the round the clock feeds with a drink or two on board will swiftly change her tune. Sleep is gold dust when there is a baby in the house.

Battlestar Tlachtga wrote: »

An occasional drink is not going to do either the woman or her baby any harm by the time she'svisibly pregnant - the big danger is drinking excessive alcohol in the first couple of months of pregnancy. If a woman chooses to have a drink when pregnant, it's her own business.

All of the development of the child in the womb is crucial. In the early stages the tiny arm buds and leg buds develop and grow, so I'm going to have to call bollox on the view that it doesn't matter 'till you show'.

You're entirely right in saying that a woman has the right to drink when she is preganant, as it is not illegal. But I think theres nothing nastier than a woman with a drink or a cigarette in her hand, let alone the potential problems I worry about.

Orlaw3136 · 27-09-2013 09:12PM

Itzy wrote: »

Cop on! Seriously!

Yes. Cop on.

Read this (and the footnoted articles and studies if you're actually interested, as opposed to trying to defend a ridiculous point of view which you thought you could support with a wiki article.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/FetalAlcoholSyndrome.html#.UkX4PuDRc3E

And this

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/HealthIssues/20060517111622.html#.UkX4w-DRc3E

"A review of the scientific medical research evidence reveals that:

Fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) occurs only in babies whose mothers habitually consume alcohol during their pregnancy at a rate of 50-60 grams per day. That equals 3.5 to 4.25 U.S. standard drinks per day. Standard drinks are 12 ounces of beer, five ounces of dinner wine or a shot (1.5 ounces) of distilled spirits (vodka, whiskey, rum, and so on).
Factors contributing to FAS include poor nutrition, caffeine, nicotine, age, genetic and other factors.
“At risk” groups in all countries and populations are minority groups with a lower socio-economic status, such as Native Americans, Native Australians, and African Americans.
Standard Drinks
Standard Drinks graphically illustrates information on the equivalence of standard drinks of beer, wine and distilled spirits or liquor. Its accuracy has been established by medical and other health professionals.
The incidence of FAS varies from about one per 10,000 births to about one per 100,000 births."

To be fair, the chap only has a Phd but he's gone to the trouble of citing the relevant studies done by other clever and diligent folk.

L.Jenkins · 27-09-2013 09:14PM

Ten of Swords wrote: »

They probably could, and probably should, but if they don't can you make that decision for them?

This article sets out a rather extreme scenario but I'd be interested to hear your opinion on it.

It seems extreme, but it highlights a case where one woman fails to heed the advice of her Doctor, putting the unborn child at extreme risk. Women need better care, but need to follow it as well.

Sulla Felix · 27-09-2013 09:18PM

What about selling her a hangar?

ThisRegard · 27-09-2013 09:18PM

The study, which found no evidence of harm from having a couple drinks a week during pregnancy, was so well done and its findings so conclusive that it ought to become the final word in the field, said Fred Bookstein, an applied statistician who studies fetal alcohol spectrum disorders at both the University of Washington, Seattle, and the University of Vienna.

"This is such a good study that it should shut down this line of research," said Boostein, who plans to refer people to the paper when they ask him about drinking during pregnancy, and hopes that research dollars can now go towards finding the effects of other, more troublesome chemicals

from http://news.discovery.com/human/health/alcohol-drinking-pregnant-women.htm

Even if the aforementioned study is exaggerated it's still ridiculous for barmen or anyone else refuse a glass of wine to a woman because of some misguided moral compass they have. Refuse to sell cigarettes at least, the evidence there is irrefutable.

Chattastrophe! · 28-09-2013 09:29AM

Abigayle wrote: »

All of the development of the child in the womb is crucial. In the early stages the tiny arm buds and leg buds develop and grow, so I'm going to have to call bollox on the view that it doesn't matter 'till you show'.

You might want to re-read the post you quoted there.

My point was that alcohol is LESS likely to be harmful later on in pregnancy - by the time you're showing. The first trimester is when damage is more likely to be done.

In any case, there's a massive difference between frequent heavy drinking and the occasional drink.

I'm six months pregnant and haven't had a drink since I found out I was pregnant. However if I decided to go to a pub and order a glass of wine as a once-off treat -something that I know my doctor wouldn't have a problem with at this stage of the pregnancy - I'd be disgusted and furious if the barperson took it upon themselves to refuse to serve me.

ceadaoin. · 28-09-2013 09:52AM

Itzy wrote: »

I could have been certain that was drugs, to highlight the fact that what you consume has an effect.

And in the same breath, there's no evidence to suggest the opposite. So why temp fate?

But there is evidence to suggest the opposite? In no study has it been found that fetal alcohol syndrome occurs when a pregnant woman drinks moderately. It clearly says in the article you linked that the threshold seems to be about 15 drinks a week. The vast majority of pregnant women who drink would have maybe one glass a week if even that much, and only after the first trimester.

It's probably more dangerous to the baby for a pregnant woman to drive given that it is statistically more likely for a car accident to occur.

bumper234 · 28-09-2013 10:00AM

Driving could be dangerous to a fetus should mothers expectant women walk everywhere? Oh wait they could fall or get hit by a car maybe they should stay at home. Don't let them take baths or showers because they might fall. No salt or sugar that could harm baby. Stay off your mobile phone there maybe evidence that it causes tumours and until we are positive don't sell them to pregnant women.

Yes i KNOW my examples are off the wall simply because that's how some people are reacting. Some would have pregnant women wrapped in cotton wool and in bed 24/7 for the 9 months. A glass of wine or beer will hurt a child no more than a cup of coffee or packet of salt and vinegar crisps.

matt-dublin · 28-09-2013 10:10AM

Was it not recently disproven that light-moderate drinking doesn't harm the baby?

From what I recall the previous evidence gathered about alcohol resulting in foetal deficiencies was actually a result of cocaine abuse during the trials?

IMO let her have a drink, if she plans on getting hammered then ask the question but really it's not the barmans position to say no.

bumper234 · 28-09-2013 10:19AM

One week beer/wine/chocolate/sugar/salt etc are good for you and the next week a different study (depending on who's agenda) will say they are bad for you. I know people who still won't eat eggs because of scares.

realgirl · 28-09-2013 11:32AM

I think refusing a pregnant woman a drink is ridiculous. If you serve alcohol to any human being, there is the potential for that to negatively effect innocent people. People who have been served a drink might drink and drive, get violent and attack someone, go home and get abusive with their kids etc. I think its just that a pregnant belly makes these issues of the potential dangers associated with alcohol rather more obvious and difficult to ignore. Singling out pregnant women as the only people with potential to cause harm to an innocent person if served a drink is daft, and ignores the bigger picture in my opinion.

Teyla Emmagan · 28-09-2013 11:51AM

I don't think I'd drink at all if I were pregnant, but that doesn't mean I'd pass judgement on another pregnant woman having an odd glass of wine. The cheek of the bartender making decisions for her! I'm not surprised she was raging. Talk about none of your effing business - it's not like she rocked up drunk demanding more. People should keep their pious judgemental cr&p to themselves at times.

If I owned that place I would be really annoyed by my staff taking it upon themselves to act as God.

Legs.Eleven · 28-09-2013 12:05PM

One drink will do nothing.

My sister flew to the US for her sister-in-law's wedding there last year. She hadn't drunk for her whole pregnancy and the doctor said it was alright to have a glass or two of wine at that wedding. One her first glass, she had a barrage of people coming up to her telling her she should be ashamed of herself and totally ruined the day for her.

If I was in her shoes, I would've told them to eff off, friends of the family or not. Some people have some neck.

ncmc · 28-09-2013 12:17PM

I am shocked by some of the attitudes in this thread. I can't believe the judgemental rubbish people come out with. If I were the woman involved, I would be absolutely raging. She was meeting friends for a quick drink after work. That to me implies ONE drink. She wasn't drunk, she wasn't sitting there all night drinking. As others have said, the current thinking is that occasional alcohol is extremely unlikely to be harmful to the baby, especially at the stage the woman in the OP was (if she was noticeably pregnant, she was probably late 2nd or 3rd trimester). In fact there is a school of thought that the relaxing effect of an occasional drink could be beneficial to the baby.

I can't believe so many people would judge a woman for having one drink while pregnant. I nor anyone I know would think nothing of it. I think most pregnant women I know have had the occasional glass of red wine or glass of Guinness.

Pregnancy and having a young baby is a stressful enough time without busy bodies attacking you over every choice you make, be it having the odd drink or breast feeding in public.

suicide_circus · 28-09-2013 12:24PM

sure its only a fetus, who gives a fook?

drkpower · 28-09-2013 12:26PM

ncmc wrote: »

I can't believe so many people would judge a woman .....

Why? It's the internet. All people need is a keyboard and access to Wikipedia. It's so so easy to judge, and sure doesn't it make them feel superior for a short fleeting moment.

Paddy Cow · 28-09-2013 12:29PM

Henwin wrote: »

half heard a story on the radio today bout a lady who was goin for a quick drink after work with friends, she was heavily pregnant at the time. the bartender refused to serve her. she got the hump and later complained i think. so he had to issue an apology,
what wud you do if you wer a bartender and a pregnant woman came in looking for an alcoholic drink? i wouldnt serve her

She was actually out walking with her husband and they stopped for a meal and a small glass of red wine. Story here.

It's absolutely ridiculous that the barman refused to serve her. One small glass of wine with a meal is not going to harm the baby. I love how people get all uppity and judgemental when women are heavily pregnant but don't seem to realise that the most damage is done in the first trimester when women aren't showing at all. I know women who gave up drinking and smoking before they decided to try for a baby but not all pregnancies are planned like this. Many women feel guilty because by the time they find out they are pregnant they have still been out binge drinking.

Should pubs start making women take pregnancy tests before they serve them to make sure that they won't have serving a pregnant woman alcohol on their conscience?

wolfpawnat · 28-09-2013 01:11PM

What I have to laugh at is the judgemental people of a woman enjoying a single glass of wine, then when they see something that is really atrocious, they say nothing!

tara73 · 28-09-2013 01:52PM

Battlestar Tlachtga wrote: »

An occasional drink is not going to do either the woman or her baby any harm by the time she's visibly pregnant - the big danger is drinking excessive alcohol in the first couple of months of pregnancy. If a woman chooses to have a drink when pregnant, it's her own business.

I can't fukcing believe people still spill out this crap in obvious seriousness and how many 'thanks' it got.

it' almost written everywhere these days that even small amounts of alcohol, means even one drink per week, can cause damage in whatever form to an unborn baby.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-374202/Why-tiny-tipple-harm-unborn-baby.html

it takes the baby 10 times more to get rid of the toxic substances than the mother. just read that a few days ago in a reputable article, wasn't from an english source, tried to find an equal good articel from an english source, nothing there....sorry, but speaks for itself.

and fukc, it's exactly not her own business, as she's potentially harming an unborn life!!! do you have the slightest idea what responsibility means?

such damn stupid comments really make my blood boil!

28-09-2013 01:52PM

Do you have anything less scaremongering than the daily mail for that

nikpmup · 28-09-2013 02:05PM

Leaving the rights and wrongs of the barmans actions out of it..... Really, whether or not one drink would do any harm, why bother? I'm 8 months pregnant, and I haven't touched a drop since I got pregnant. I hope to breastfeed, so I won't be drinking after the baby is born either. It's not a hardship or a sacrifice at all, IMO. As far as I'm concerned, my body is not my own until I've given birth and stopped feeding. I'm a host, and it's my job to not take any risk at all no matter how minute. While one drink may not do any harm, you don't NEED it - drink juice or water instead. And yes, I've been to the pub, I've been to meals etc during my pregnancy, and didn't drink. You could argue the ins and outs all day, but the bottom line is - if you don't drink, you eliminate all possibility of risk. It's a very short time in the grand scheme of things.

tara73 · 28-09-2013 02:06PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Do you have anything less scaremongering than the daily mail for that

you are a smart guy...you just confirmed what I wrote in my post before: obviously there's not much up to date information to the danger of alcohol for unborn babies from sources from the UK/Ireland

or how about using your own fingers to google it, I'm very curious for you to back up your statement from a reliable source which says: one drink per week is not harming an unborn child..
on you go!!

gctest50 · 28-09-2013 02:06PM

tara73 wrote: »

I can't fukcing believe people still spill out this crap in obvious seriousness and how many 'thanks' it got.

it' almost written everywhere these days that even small amounts of alcohol, means even one drink per week, can cause damage in whatever form to an unborn baby.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...born-baby.html

it takes the baby 10 times more to get rid of the toxic substances than the mother. just read that a few days ago in a reputable article, wasn't from an english source, tried to find an equal good articel from an english source, nothing there....sorry, but speaks for itself.

and fukc, it's exactly not her own business, as she's potentially harming an unborn life!!! do you have the slightest idea what responsibility means?

such damn stupid comments really make my blood boil!

nearly almost

"Boys born to light drinkers had 40% fewer conduct problems, were 30% less likely to suffer hyperactivity, and received higher scores on tests of vocabulary and of ability to identify colors, shapes, letters and numbers than did those born to abstainers.
Girls born to light drinkers were 30 percent less likely to have emotional symptoms and peer problems compared with those born to abstainers during pregnancy."

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/InTheNews/MedicalReports/GeneralHealth/20090324114942.html

28-09-2013 02:14PM

tara73 wrote: »

you are a smart guy...you just confirmed what I wrote in my post before: obviously there's not much up to date information to the danger of alcohol for unborn babies from sources from the UK/Ireland

or how about using your own fingers to google it, I'm very curious for you to back up your statement from a reliable source which says: one drink per week is not harming an unborn child..
on you go!!

When did I make that statement? Maybe you should back your own statements up

drkpower · 28-09-2013 02:15PM

tara73 wrote: »

you are a smart guy...you just confirmed what I wrote in my post before: obviously there's not much up to date information to the danger of alcohol for unborn babies from sources from the UK/Ireland

or how about using your own fingers to google it, I'm very curious for you to back up your statement from a reliable source which says: one drink per week is not harming an unborn child..
on you go!!

What about NICE guidelines?

The guideline includes recommendations for doctors and midwives on the advice they should give to pregnant women about drinking alcohol. These recommendations are consistent with the advice issued in 2007 by the UK Chief Medical Officers. The NICE recommendations are that:
• Pregnant women and women planning to become pregnant should be advised to avoid drinking alcohol in the first 3 months of pregnancy, because there may be an increased risk of miscarriage.
• Women should be advised that if they choose to drink alcohol while they are pregnant they should drink no more than 1-2 UK units once or twice a week There is uncertainty about how much alcohol is safe to drink in pregnancy, but at this low level there is no evidence of any harm to their unborn baby.
• Women should be advised not get to drunk or binge drink (drinking more than 7.5 UK units of alcohol on a single occasion) while they are pregnant because this can harm their unborn baby.

The Big Smoke · 28-09-2013 02:43PM

I would absolutely serve her, it's no business of mine if she wants to drink when pregnant. You'd have to be some selfish cnut to drink when you're pregnant though. Scary the attitudes shown in this thread but not surprising.

drkpower · 28-09-2013 03:01PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

You'd have to be some selfish cnut to drink when you're pregnant though. Scary the attitudes shown in this thread but not surprising.

Have you looked at the evidence?

The Big Smoke · 28-09-2013 03:03PM

drkpower wrote: »

Have you looked at the evidence?

Have you?

There is uncertainty about how much alcohol is safe to drink in pregnancy

drkpower · 28-09-2013 03:05PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Have you?

What about this bit:

, but at this low level there is no evidence of any harm to their unborn baby.

Oakboy · 28-09-2013 03:10PM

The reactions on this thread are very confusing. On the one hand it's no one elses business if the woman has a drink or two as she is not drinking excessively, which implies that it would be other peoples business if she was drinking excessively. At what point does it stop becoming the woman's choice whether she wants to load up on booze/fags/coke? There is a rank hypocrisy here, which I suppose I shouldn't be all too surprised at

serving a pregnant woman

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