Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

Howard Juneau · 26-09-2013 05:53PM

19543261 wrote: »

So what happens now.

We break for tea & meet back here at say..7ish?

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 05:54PM

rrpc wrote: »

It's not a massive disparity currently. According to your figures, the current dole out is 48% for England and France and 52% for Ire/Wal/Ita/Sco.

On current participation that's 48% for 12 teams and 52% for 10 (not counting the winners).

What has me confused about this is the bonus payments. That's supposed to be 15% to all the knockout/winners/runners up. How does that fit in?

its the figures for the for ERC.

So 48% for 26 teams and 52% for 12

Winters · 26-09-2013 06:09PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

its the figures for the for ERC.

So 48% for 26 teams and 52% for 12

Correction 52% for 16 teams.

The split is based on the participation in the Heineken Cup though because that is where most of the revenue comes from which makes sense.

It's an interesting theory though that there is a threshold in spectator sports whereby the match attending fan becomes marginalised when the revenue from TV exceeds the gate receipts.

Soccer in England has certainly broken that threshold in my opinion and thus the TV companies and the people controlling the purse strings have more say than the fan.

You really have to admire the likes of the Bundesliga 50+1 rule, the Green Bay Packers, Athletic Bilbao, IRFU, SRU and other fan orientated sports teams and leagues who have resisted the pull of privitisation in sport.

Who said socialism in sport isn't dead?

padser · 26-09-2013 08:05PM

Eponymous wrote: »

This has become, quite possibly, the worst thread on this forum ever - and I'd include the Leinster/Munster schiesse threads of old.

Agreed, the problem is though that it's such an important topic that you have to keep coming back to it......

Could I make a proposal. We start a new thread (this can continue as is) but limit posts by any individual to 2 posts / 24 hrs. We ask a mod to ban anyone posting on it more than that....

Eponymous · 26-09-2013 09:10PM

padser wrote: »

Agreed, the problem is though that it's such an important topic that you have to keep coming back to it......

Could I make a proposal. We start a new thread (this can continue as is) but limit posts by any individual to 2 posts / 24 hrs. We ask a mod to ban anyone posting on it more than that....

I know where you're coming from. What we have are press releases and opinions. Even some of the press releases are little more than opinions. As such all that's happened for days is point and counterpoint with no development, only two sides becoming more and more entrenched.

I keep looking in expecting to see developments and end up with the boards version of this:

Rob C · 26-09-2013 10:57PM

Have a look at the comment beneath GT's article in the IT....The article is from Tuesdays edition but the comment was posted an hour ago about the leaked BT Premiership rugby deal. If true, it's huge as the T's and C's are incredibly prohibitive as dictated by BT Sport.

It explains the desperation from the English Clubs.

The BT deal has been leaked and it's not nice reading if you're an English rugby fan. Apparently, unless 4 or more tier 1 unions sign up to the new competition (which looks increasingly unlikely) the PRL get next to nothing, just the travel costs for the teams involved.. Also, the deal for Premiership games is contingent on the new comp being formed, again with four or more tier 1 nations signed up, otherwise the rights for the league games will be worth less than they were when SKY had them. There is a bonus to be paid every year for the new competition, but this is again conditional on the four or more tier 1 unions being involved. So again, less than four and they get zero. So, the PRL has played it's hand and lost. The BT deal is predicated on the European Cup continuing as it was but under new management. The PRL have so alienated the other clubs through their mouthpieces on the BBC and on ESPNScrum, ( ESPN are FoxSports main rivals in America and Fox is of course owned by 21st Century Fox, formerly News International, who of course also own SKY, so they have a vested interest in destroying the ERC), that this is now highly unlikely. The IRFU, WRU, SRU and FIR have all stated that none of their teams will be playing in this new tournament. Who else would be included? The South Africans are tied into the Super 15 until 2015. Do the English teams have that much time?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/anglo-french-club-alliance-means-war-over-future-of-european-rugby-1.1537664

McCBrian · 26-09-2013 10:59PM

IBF is Allan Robson :eek:

"the Aviva Premiership and Top 14 clubs receive 24 percent of the distribution, while the Pro 12 receives 52 percent."

http://www.northamptonsaints.co.uk/News/TabId/90/ArtMID/526/ArticleID/2170/Robson-clubs-should-run-club-competitions.aspx

The exact same mis-representaion of the %'s

Plus more guff from Paul Rees (PRL's mouthpiece) in the Grauniad

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/26/premiership-french-erc-heineken-cup-rugby

McCBrian · 26-09-2013 11:03PM

Rob C wrote: »

Have a look at the comment beneath GT's article in the IT....The article is from Tuesdays edition but the comment was posted an hour ago about the leaked BT Premiership rugby deal. If true, it's huge as the T's and C's are incredibly prohibitive as dictated by BT Sport.

It explains the desperation from the English Clubs.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/anglo-french-club-alliance-means-war-over-future-of-european-rugby-1.1537664

Rob think that is a copy and paste job of a hypothetical situation from someones blog

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 11:04PM

How important is it that the statements of the Unions today didn't mention the ERC?

McCBrian · 26-09-2013 11:06PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How important is it that the statements of the Unions today didn't mention the ERC?

Very, as the Unions are keeping all their options open, unlike PRL who are heading at 100kph down a cul-de-sac

Hagz · 26-09-2013 11:07PM

This sucks so god-damn much.

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 11:09PM

McCBrian wrote: »

Very, as the Unions are keeping all their options open, unlike PRL who are heading at 100kph down a cul-de-sac

They are. But there won't be a European competition without them. So its either that or nothing it seems.

McCBrian · 26-09-2013 11:13PM

Also received a text from a friend that PRL are trying to wind up ERC, even though they are not directors of the company;)

thomond2006 is the man for this I think. I have no further details as just off a flight and jetlagged

padser · 26-09-2013 11:14PM

Hagz wrote: »

This sucks so god-damn much.

It does.

Nonetheless, it does appear that PRL is FFUUU-CKED

Majorly.

And that in itself is lovely to see, even if it does suck that they might take others down with them....

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 11:16PM

padser wrote: »

It does.

Nonetheless, it does appear that PRL is FFUUU-CKED

Majorly.

And that in itself is lovely to see, even if it does suck that they might take others down with them....

What have I missed?

McCBrian · 26-09-2013 11:16PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They are. But there won't be a European competition without them. So its either that or nothing it seems.

To what other Unions keeping their options open or PRL driving down the cul-de-sac:)

Who?

Cork24 · 26-09-2013 11:16PM

The IRB will slap them back into place they are like two little spoiled kids in a toy shop

padser · 26-09-2013 11:26PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What have I missed?

The IRB saying they wouldn't sanction the competition and the release of the bt deal which shows Anglo-French not a runner without other nations.

The entire PRL negotiating position is based around the notion they are in a stronger position then the Celtic nations. They are not.

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 11:36PM

McCBrian wrote: »

To what other Unions keeping their options open or PRL driving down the cul-de-sac:)

Who?

Oh sorry, just on my phone on the way home from work. The clubs are forcing things down a cul de sac!

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 11:39PM

padser wrote: »

The IRB saying they wouldn't sanction the competition and the release of the bt deal which shows Anglo-French not a runner without other nations.

The entire PRL negotiating position is based around the notion they are in a stronger position then the Celtic nations. They are not.

The IRB didn't say they wouldn't sanction the competition. They said they wouldn't like to see an Anglo-French competition. If the FFR and RFU sanction it though they won't step in. Can't see them sanctioning an Anglo-French competition though. And the BT deal was not released.

For a minute there I thought I'd missed some news.

You'd hope though an Anglo-French or even a 4 Union competition will never come to pass.

irishbucsfan · 26-09-2013 11:45PM

McCafferty said "5-10" Pro 12 clubs have expressed an interest. What a ridiculous thing to say!

lotmc · 26-09-2013 11:51PM

Beginning to remind me of this.........

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/W09ghiWskUk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W09ghiWskUk

McCBrian · 27-09-2013 12:10AM

From my rudimentary French it just got more laughable, not only do they want clubs/provinces/franchises to be involved in the Really Crap Cup but PRL think the Cheetahs, Western Force and an unnamed NZ Franchise along with NATIONAL repesentative teams from the PI's (Samoa, Tonga and Fiji) and Georgia, Portugal, Russia, Romania and Spain to join them in this super dooper competition:rolleyes:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/La-rcc-ouvre-les-portes/404362

See they are getting short on numbers when the FFR don't approve it, so lets make up some other tournament where 11 of the proposed teams are not CLUB sides.

Ergo 0% of IRB approval imho:D

Mal-Adjusted · 27-09-2013 12:16AM

The news of the BT deal would seem to be a game changer, but i'm a bit skeptical to believe it, at least until it's more that just some guy posting it on the Irish Times comment section.

edit. McCbrian, would that not make it at least 23 teams? that'd undermine one of their original demands.

irishbucsfan · 27-09-2013 12:20AM

McCBrian wrote: »

From my rudimentary French it just got more laughable, not only do they want clubs/provinces/franchises to be involved in the Really Crap Cup but PRL think the Cheetahs, Western Force and an unnamed NZ Franchise along with NATIONAL repesentative teams from the PI's (Samoa, Tonga and Fiji) and Georgia, Portugal, Russia, Romania and Spain to join them in this super dooper competition:rolleyes:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/La-rcc-ouvre-les-portes/404362

See they are getting short on numbers when the FFR don't approve it, so lets make up some other tournament where 11 of the proposed teams are not CLUB sides.

Ergo 0% of IRB approval imho:D

Given it's the French press I would be very wary of it, is there any direct quote in the article?

McCBrian · 27-09-2013 12:30AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Given it's the French press I would be very wary of it, is there any direct quote in the article?

So in your opinion because it is a French article it is to be dismissed out of hand yet you seem to accept the press releases in the UK media promulgating PRL's stance unquestionably:cool:

irishbucsfan · 27-09-2013 12:34AM

McCBrian wrote: »

So in your opinion because it is a French article it is to be dismissed out of hand yet you seem to accept the press releases in the UK media promulgating PRL's stance unquestionably:cool:

Well I would dismiss any article without a decent source. But the French press have a dire record, remember 2007 World Cup?

Obviously if it's true it sounds awful.

McCBrian · 27-09-2013 12:49AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I would dismiss any article without a decent source. But the French press have a dire record, remember 2007 World Cup?

Obviously if it's true it sounds awful.

I tend to digest all media sources Irish/UK/French (although my French is not that great it gets better each time I go there to watch my team in the ERC controlled games) and base my suppositions after reading all views rather than taking as read the agitprop and presumptions spouted by the the UK 'journalists' kowtowing to PRL

irishbucsfan · 27-09-2013 12:59AM

McCBrian wrote: »

I tend to digest all media sources Irish/UK/French (although my French is not that great it gets better each time I go there to watch my team in the ERC controlled games) and base my suppositions after reading all views rather than taking as read the agitprop and presumptions spouted by the the UK 'journalists' kowtowing to PRL

I speak a bit of French as well, don't worry. And French media is notorious, as I'm sure you know!

Until I see a decent source for it I'm not going to pay it much mind. It could just be them expanding on Lorenzetti's comments.

Madworld · 27-09-2013 03:04AM

Interesting to note the co-ordinated Premiership Rugby P.R. offensive over the last few days.

Newcastle: http://tyneandwear.sky.com/rugby/video/82975/newcastle-falcons-excited-to-be-part-of-new-european-champions
Northampton: http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/northampton-saints/saints-chief-executive-robson-urges-clubs-to-seize-power-in-european-rugby-row-1-5533742
Gloucester: http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Heineken-Cup-row-Gloucester-Rugby-CEO-hits/story-19848283-detail/story.html

Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

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