Is there an implied xenophobia towards Northerners in Irish society

K-9 · 26-09-2013 12:41AM

Really you're talking about a country whose sense of community is how much is my neighbours house worth, how does it benefit me

darced · 26-09-2013 12:41AM

This post has been deleted.

I am pie · 26-09-2013 01:11AM

bohsboy wrote: »

Says the Argentinian. :pac:

If you are going to try and be smart, which seems to be beyond you in fairness. Two things:

I am Irish.

It is Argentine.

markomuscle · 26-09-2013 01:22AM

johnr1 wrote: »

Why? - so they can be avoided/ignored like the ones I provided?

you didn't give much detail in your examples so it's hard for anyone to comment on your experiences.
The first ever time I was in Dublin I witnessed someone getting mugged, there's scumbags everywhere unfortunately, regardless of borders.

Jim van Morrison · 26-09-2013 01:41AM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

... Run along now.

Isn't anyone who puts this in a post automatically a cunt?

WilyCoyote · 26-09-2013 02:19AM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Our crowd moved from the NW to the SW as kids and, unfortunately there was no Soda Bread or Potato Bread this far south for years until, I think, M&S started bring it in when they arrived here.

We had to have the poor-man's 'Irish Fry' instead of the connoisseur's choice Ulster one.

Another thing we used to get in the chippy where we came from, up north, was that delicacy of all chipper delicacies the Scotch Egg. Ne'er to be seen this far south unfortunately.

Au contraire კარლო - old bean. Was home in November last and picked up a few packets of four at Tescos in either Wicklow or Gorey. One or two of the posters on this thread could have been a Scotch egg before gestation. It is perhaps what gives them the jittery finger on the panic button :P

[-0-] · 26-09-2013 05:31AM

Some horrible comments in this thread.

On a more lighter note, pasties are the best food in the world.

Karl Stein · 26-09-2013 06:06AM

Jim van Morrison wrote: »

Isn't anyone who puts this in a post automatically a cunt?

I only ever get cuntish when someone is being cuntish with me. Now run along sweetpea.

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Au contraire კარლო - old bean.

Oh you'll see the lesser-spotted Scotch Egg in the deep south - just not winking at you from the menu of any chipper I've been to here.

Feisar · 26-09-2013 07:36AM

Oh I'll bite.

From Westmeath, spent two years in Belfast working. Lived on the Ormeau Road and on the Castlereagh Road, specifically Castlereagh Place, right across from the Rangers supporters club.

Two examples of ignorance stick out.

One from a Catholic who asked, "do ye have any Protestants down South?" When I said we dd surely her asked, "so what do ye do with them?"
I'm like:eek:

:eek:

The other was on the Castlereagh Road, we were having a house party. Some lad heard my accent and asked was I from down South. Well of course I am I said. At this stage you'd think he was looking at a leper. He hoped up said "I'm away" and bolted for the door!?!?

And then the lads across the street singing songs about killing Fenians and something about going to the place the Fenians don't go.

Other than that I found most people to be bang on and just trying to get by in life same as everybody else in any corner of the world.
On the confrontational thing I did find working class people to be a tad more so than at home, didn't notice it with professionals.
Its my own view that conflicts are usually a working class/non working class thing, it's always in the poorer areas that violence/sectarianism thrives.

FTA69 · 26-09-2013 11:27AM

enda1 wrote: »

I think it's rather factually accurate to say there are more commonalities between a Kerry and Donegal man than a Kerry and Derry man. So from that point of view it's understandable.

But similarly someone from Donegal will have a lot more in common with someone from Derry than they will with someone in Kerry. Someone in rural Kerry will have infinitely more in common with someone from rural Tyrone than either of them ever would with someone from inner-city Dublin. Ireland as a nation is littered with slight regional differences as well as a rural/urban divide. In the border area itself there is no difference at all between the two and communities, relationships etc exist flawlessly across the border without the slightest sense of "difference".

In London I have a large group of Irish friends and there is no lack of commonality between people from Mayo, Derry, Belfast, Down, Galway or anywhere else in our group.

To be honest (and I'm not necessarily talking about you here), I find attempts to portray northerners and southerners as some sort of vastly different nationality a bit strained and generally a bit thick to be honest. Mostly people going on about this mythical "difference" have very little experience with the north or the border area.

crockholm · 26-09-2013 11:43AM

When I used to do doorwork,in my experience,the northerners were always the most difficult/troublesome.We had to deal with criminal families from Cork,and compared to nordies,they were gents.Of course everyone knows that there's always rotten apples,but from my experience(from bouncing,anyway),Northerners and Travellers are the most difficult to deal with.

FTA69 · 26-09-2013 11:55AM

crockholm wrote: »

When I used to do doorwork,in my experience,the northerners were always the most difficult/troublesome.We had to deal with criminal families from Cork,and compared to nordies,they were gents.Of course everyone knows that there's always rotten apples,but from my experience(from bouncing,anyway),Northerners and Travellers are the most difficult to deal with.

I did the door for years and I can categorically say that c*nts have no specific region or class.

johnr1 · 26-09-2013 12:10PM

FTA69 wrote: »

But similarly someone from Donegal will have a lot more in common with someone from in Derry than they will with someone in Kerry. Someone in rural Kerry will have infinitely more in common with someone from rural Tyrone than either of them ever would with someone from inner-city Dublin. Ireland as a nation is littered with slight regional differences as well as a rural/urban divide. In the border area itself there is no difference at all between the two and communities, relationships etc exist flawlessly across the border without the slightest sense of "difference".

In London I have a large group of Irish friends and there is no lack of commonality between people from Mayo, Derry, Belfast, Down, Galway or anywhere else in our group.

To be honest (and I'm not necessarily talking about you here), I find attempts to portray northerners and southerners as some sort of vastly different nationality a bit strained and generally a bit thick to be honest. Mostly people going on about this mythical "difference" have very little experience with the north or the border area.

As someone from rural Kerry, who has spent a lot of time in NI over the past 20 years and who now lives in Dublin, I can tell you that you are completely wrong in my experience.

Whats your experience of NI been apart from meeting them away from home in London?

awec · 26-09-2013 12:18PM

johnr1 wrote: »

As someone from rural Kerry, who has spent a lot of time in NI over the past 20 years and who now lives in Dublin, I can tell you that you are completely wrong in my experience.

Whats your experience of NI been apart from meeting them away from home in London?

I'm pretty surprised by your experiences / views john (not in the patronising "I 'm surprised at you" way).

Some places are worse than others. Generally the more working class an area is the more likely to be confrontational it will be.

johnr1 · 26-09-2013 12:22PM

awec wrote: »

I'm pretty surprised by your experiences / views john (not in the patronising "I 'm surprised at you" way).

Some places are worse than others. Generally the more working class an area is the more likely to be confrontational it will be.

I don't mean to cause offence to decent people Awec, but unfortunately this view of the place is born of repeatedly bad experiences with the place over a long time. Having said that, I have some friends from there who are absolute salt of the earth.

old hippy · 26-09-2013 12:24PM

markomuscle wrote: »

out of interest, what towns/cities do you stay in? i grew up going to the hardcore loyalist town of ballymena on the weekends and i never received any form of abuse, though it would be impossible for anyone to know you're a nationalist

Small world, that's where I used to visit family. I only rarely encountered bigotry. Once when a kid called me a taig/tadgh whatever it is and at my Uncle's funeral when one of his drunkern colleagues told us to piss off back to the south

Aside from such unpleasantness I always enjoyed my trips up there.

old hippy · 26-09-2013 12:25PM

Manassas61 wrote: »

It's a different place. Different history and a large amount of people from a different ethnic background in the Protestants.

My ancestors were Scottish presbyterians and it hasn't done me any harm

FTA69 · 26-09-2013 12:27PM

johnr1 wrote: »

As someone from rural Kerry, who has spent a lot of time in NI over the past 20 years and who now lives in Dublin, I can tell you that you are completely wrong in my experience.

So life in rural Kerry is more similar to life in urban Dublin that it would be in rural Tyrone? B*llocks. The same dynamics largely exist in rural Ireland wherever you go. You have small towns, smaller villages, parochial rivalry, the GAA, the Catholic Church, similar interests and similar occupations all in an often agricultural context. My old doll's best friend over here is from Bellaghy in rural Derry and they're upbringing was pretty much the same despite her being from a small village in Cork.

Whats your experience of NI been apart from meeting them away from home in London?

My old man's from bang on the border. I've been there countless times for a variety of different reasons. I've encountered them in a social, political, sporting and work context. Half of my family still live in the border counties (Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Louth). In a similar vein I've also mixed with people from the "Wesht" or Dublin or any other distinct parts of Ireland. There's no massive difference between us and them like, or at least none greater than you'd find between someone from Galway and someone from Dublin or the myriad of other differences we have in Ireland.

timthumbni · 26-09-2013 12:31PM

I would say there is a certain xenophobia in all countries about other countries, even those bordering them like Northern Ireland does in this case.

Any time I've been down to the republic I've met a mixed bunch just like you would anywhere. Most fine but a few a bit less friendly when they found out I wasn't a nationalist,republican,gAA man. Was another few who informed me they didn't like nordie unionists, but not to worry as they hated the nordie Provo types even more.

I would say the vast majority of Northern Irish people don't really have a clue how the republic or its politicians work. This includes even the republican types up here. I could name the Irish prime minister and I know that the president down there is that oul boy but aside from that wouldn't have a clue, nor really care.

old hippy · 26-09-2013 12:33PM

chopper6 wrote: »

Don't hate anybody..i did say however that i largely disliked nordies and gave my reasons for that.

Anybody who pretends to be free from prejudice is a liar..it's the same all over the world,man will always hate man.

You demonstrated your intolerance straight away just then...you leapt in with "prejudice" and "haters"...you felt the need to pigeonhole me based on a couple of sentences i uttered on a discussion board.

As for me being "exposed" isnt this a bit smug of you? You're obviously content to sit at your PC dishing out ladlefulls of social justice whilst congratulating yourself on your enlightenment.

As i said...my honesty versus PC platitudes to collect thanks...

"Pretending to be PC to collect thanks" that's how you see genuine people, is it?

But good of you to be honest about your prejudices, mind.

markomuscle · 26-09-2013 12:34PM

FTA69 wrote: »

johnr1 wrote: »

So life in rural Kerry is more similar to life in urban Dublin that it would be in rural Tyrone? B*llocks. The same dynamics largely exist in rural Ireland wherever you go. You have small towns, smaller villages, parochial rivalry, the GAA, the Catholic Church, similar interests and similar occupations all in an often agricultural context. My old doll's best friend over here is from Bellaghy in rural Derry and they're upbringing was pretty much the same despite her being from a small village in Cork.

My old man's from bang on the border. I've been there countless times for a variety of different reasons. I've encountered them in a social, political, sporting and work context. Half of my family still live in the border counties (Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Louth). In a similar vein I've also mixed with people from the "Wesht" or Dublin or any other distinct parts of Ireland. There's no massive difference between us and them like, or at least none greater than you'd find between someone from Galway and someone from Dublin or the myriad of other differences we have in Ireland.

I have family in Bellaghy, rural Derry is very like the old tv show Killinaskully, I have very little in common with someone from Derry City apart from the obvious things like currency to be honest.

FTA69 · 26-09-2013 01:07PM

markomuscle wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

I have family in Bellaghy, rural Derry is very like the old tv show Killinaskully, I have very little in common with someone from Derry City apart from the obvious things like currency to be honest.

Which is largely my point. The biggest division in Ireland is arguably urban/rural and not north/south.

WilyCoyote · 26-09-2013 01:26PM

old hippy wrote: »

Small world, that's where I used to visit family. I only rarely encountered bigotry. Once when a kid called me a taig/tadgh whatever it is and at my Uncle's funeral when one of his drunkern colleagues told us to piss off back to the south

Aside from such unpleasantness I always enjoyed my trips up there.

Salt of the earth Ulster Irish

old hippy wrote: »

My ancestors were Scottish presbyterians and it hasn't done me any harm

That's why you're such a happy and non confrontational human being? You didn't need to flee to the mainland. After all the Good Friday Agreement said that ye were, "part of the cultural wealth of the island of Ireland"

old hippy wrote: »

"Pretending to be PC to collect thanks" that's how you see genuine people, is it?

..............................................................................................

Sounds like something that the Rev Ian would say!

Duchas. Or in Scots Gaelic, Am mac mar an t-athair.

johnr1 · 26-09-2013 02:02PM

markomuscle wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

I have family in Bellaghy, rural Derry is very like the old tv show Killinaskully, I have very little in common with someone from Derry City apart from the obvious things like currency to be honest.

Oh I have no doubt you're seeing valid differences between rural NI and the cities. I see those myself.
I still think however that having shared the same educational system, tv shows, sports, govt departments, tacation system, health system, welfare system, politics etc makes me more similar to someone in Dublin than in Tyrone.

Aside, you have quoted me above incorrectly. Please edit that.

old hippy · 26-09-2013 02:12PM

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Salt of the earth Ulster Irish

That's why you're such a happy and non confrontational human being? You didn't need to flee to the mainland. After all the Good Friday Agreement said that ye were, "part of the cultural wealth of the island of Ireland"

Sounds like something that the Rev Ian would say!

Duchas. Or in Scots Gaelic, Am mac mar an t-athair.

Aw bless. Good try. I'm Irish born and bred. So whatever you're hinting at, I'm not interested.

old hippy · 26-09-2013 02:19PM

docile_drinker wrote: »

not really a people I would associate with hippys

Who? Scottish Presbyterians or hippies?

Madam · 26-09-2013 02:56PM

docile_drinker wrote: »

I meant hippys and Scottish Presbyterians appear very different to me

Is that because they happen to be Scottish or Presbyterians?

old hippy · 26-09-2013 02:57PM

docile_drinker wrote: »

I meant hippys and Scottish Presbyterians appear very different to me

Do they have three eyes or something? Or is it their outlandish garb?

SoulandForm · 26-09-2013 04:21PM

old hippy wrote: »

Aw bless. Good try. I'm Irish born and bred. So whatever you're hinting at, I'm not interested.

Im Ulster Scot too and would consider myself Irish as well. In my experience Ulster Scots in often less than complimentary ways have a lot more in common with the rest of the Irish (think of the similarities between the DUP and FF) than we do with the actual Scots.

Madam · 26-09-2013 04:28PM

SoulandForm wrote: »

Im Ulster Scot too and would consider myself Irish as well. In my experience Ulster Scots in often less than complimentary ways have a lot more in common with the rest of the Irish (think of the similarities between the DUP and FF) than we do with the actual Scots.

Rubbish - I live in Scotland and you wouldn't believe how similar we are to the Scots - especially the people from around Ayrshire and the West coast!

Is there an implied xenophobia towards Northerners in Irish society

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