beef price tracker

bob charles · 20-09-2013 02:07AM

kevthegaff wrote: »

i have 2 bulls fr around 28 months old, id say 340-360 deadweight, any ideas what ill get and should i hold them for another month. Theyre aitin 10kg each per day

theyre a mart job, let someone else worry about them. they will come into more than your able to make of them at slaughter

manjou · 20-09-2013 05:47AM

rancher wrote: »

You have to admit that 200 farmers marching through the Tesco lingerie dept is good crack
or where's your sense of humour

Sounds like father ted episode

rancher · 20-09-2013 07:44AM

manjou wrote: »

Sounds like father ted episode

As I said good crack.
The journal photographer was going ahead of us taking photographs,
When he turned one corner, he ran into three security guys, they started jostling him and trying to take the camera off him, I tell you the look on their faces when 200 farmers came round the corner after him was definitely a Father Ted moment

rancher · 21-09-2013 09:12AM

rancher wrote: »

As I said good crack.
The journal photographer was going ahead of us taking photographs,
When he turned one corner, he ran into three security guys, they started jostling him and trying to take the camera off him, I tell you the look on their faces when 200 farmers came round the corner after him was definitely a Father Ted moment

English factories giving over €5/kg for beef........Probably owned buy the same people that are trying to pull the price under €4 here wtf

bob charles · 21-09-2013 09:47AM

rancher wrote: »

English factories giving over €5/kg for beef........Probably owned buy the same people that are trying to pull the price under €4 here wtf

Typical populist IFA crap. If you dont compare like with like anyone with one jot of sense wont bother listening.

Heifers are 60c/kilo more in UK - Ire 30c under EU ave
Steers are 80c/kilo more in UK - Ire 6c under EU ave
Y bulls are 45c/kilo more in UK - Ire 20c over EU ave
Cows are 12c/kilo more in UK - Ire 8c over EU ave

so on average across all cattle there is a difference of 50c a kilo. All UK meat is used in the UK whereas of 90% surplus meat in Ireland doesnt all go to the UK (around 50%)so the other 50% goes to poor performing markets as Uk is top of the EU price at the moment. Will knock of 25c a kilo for the above. There is harder trimming in UK so say 5c a kilo maybe less. And I cant account for the final 20c a kilo. Factories would want 10c a kilo for there pocket to stay in business.

Those are the facts, yes I would love a higher price so everyone down along the line could get more pie, but lets be realistic

I was listening to the IFA flash protest on countrywide this morning. They didnt seem to have an objectives to their campaign, when asked about prices from 2 years ago they did know. Whats more, reading the IFJ I see the president talking about meeting the Meat processing Industry over the next few months to discuss such problems. I know they are busy but I would expect him to have said they are meeting the Processors in the next few days. Sure coming up to Xmas soon so they might as well leave it till after the Xmas holidays till they meet up. :rolleyes:. Anyway should they now be protesting with the meat factories who we are selling our product to and not 2 links up in the chain. Tesco et al dont give Jack ****e if a few spluttering farmers come into the store during mid afternoon as long as they don't distract the yummie mommies

rancher · 21-09-2013 11:11AM

bob charles wrote: »

Typical populist IFA crap. If you dont compare like with like anyone with one jot of sense wont bother listening.

Heifers are 60c/kilo more in UK - Ire 30c under EU ave
Steers are 80c/kilo more in UK - Ire 6c under EU ave
Y bulls are 45c/kilo more in UK - Ire 20c over EU ave
Cows are 12c/kilo more in UK - Ire 8c over EU ave

so on average across all cattle there is a difference of 50c a kilo. All UK meat is used in the UK whereas of 90% surplus meat in Ireland doesnt all go to the UK (around 50%)so the other 50% goes to poor performing markets as Uk is top of the EU price at the moment. Will knock of 25c a kilo for the above. There is harder trimming in UK so say 5c a kilo maybe less. And I cant account for the final 20c a kilo. Factories would want 10c a kilo for there pocket to stay in business.

Those are the facts, yes I would love a higher price so everyone down along the line could get more pie, but lets be realistic

I was listening to the IFA flash protest on countrywide this morning. They didnt seem to have an objectives to their campaign, when asked about prices from 2 years ago they did know. Whats more, reading the IFJ I see the president talking about meeting the Meat processing Industry over the next few months to discuss such problems. I know they are busy but I would expect him to have said they are meeting the Processors in the next few days. Sure coming up to Xmas soon so they might as well leave it till after the Xmas holidays till they meet up. :rolleyes:. Anyway should they now be protesting with the meat factories who we are selling our product to and not 2 links up in the chain. Tesco et al dont give Jack ****e if a few spluttering farmers come into the store during mid afternoon as long as they don't distract the yummie mommies

So the text I got saying beef in england is €5/kg is wrong.
We met the local factories a few weeks ago, so they were well warned, and we'll be meeting them again soon.
we had to follow through.
The guys on the national commitees were well mandated to make the decision to protest, having been elected from local branches all around the country on to local county execs and from there on to national commitees,
and the pressure was on them to do something.
I know you don't agree with protests and that's fine too, it would be a dull world if everyone was the same

bob charles · 21-09-2013 12:05PM

rancher wrote: »

So the text I got saying beef in england is €5/kg is wrong.
We met the local factories a few weeks ago, so they were well warned, and we'll be meeting them again soon.
we had to follow through.
The guys on the national commitees were well mandated to make the decision to protest, having been elected from local branches all around the country on to local county execs and from there on to national commitees,
and the pressure was on them to do something.
I know you don't agree with protests and that's fine too, it would be a dull world if everyone was the same

I have no problem with well taught out protests, not a lynch mob of headless chickens organizing a protest this morning for the afternoon. How many members even knew about the protest, what were the aims of the protest in Aldi,supervalue and tesco considering these three retail about 5% of all the meat produced in Ireland. To be chasing the 5% is looking for cheap unwanted publicity that you can use next week at the ploughing to sing to the crowd. What I heard on the radio today seemed like a shambles and most there didnt know what the aim of the protest was. What was the aim as I dont understand why you would target this approach either.

If the IFA were in talks with the meat processors how come at the top of near ever beef price sheet on the IFA website they says that prices should be higher when if talking to the processors you would know full well what way prices are going for the following few weeks and the market returns that are available.

What did the IFA warn the factories off over a few weeks ago, seems they take the organisation serious aswell, as since this "warning" prices have fallen another 15 to 20c. Anyone thats one of my best paymasters I assure I dont warn and actually lick their asses to stay in there good books. I would be a fool not too.

just do it · 21-09-2013 12:59PM

I'm with Bob on this one. The IFA are extremely poor at getting a consistent plausible argument across to the public. The boy that cried wolf comes to mind as each year it's the same old waffle from them.

rancher · 21-09-2013 01:58PM

bob charles wrote: »

I have no problem with well taught out protests, not a lynch mob of headless chickens organizing a protest this morning for the afternoon. How many members even knew about the protest, what were the aims of the protest in Aldi,supervalue and tesco considering these three retail about 5% of all the meat produced in Ireland. To be chasing the 5% is looking for cheap unwanted publicity that you can use next week at the ploughing to sing to the crowd. What I heard on the radio today seemed like a shambles and most there didnt know what the aim of the protest was. What was the aim as I dont understand why you would target this approach either.

If the IFA were in talks with the meat processors how come at the top of near ever beef price sheet on the IFA website they says that prices should be higher when if talking to the processors you would know full well what way prices are going for the following few weeks and the market returns that are available.

What did the IFA warn the factories off over a few weeks ago, seems they take the organisation serious aswell, as since this "warning" prices have fallen another 15 to 20c. Anyone thats one of my best paymasters I assure I dont warn and actually lick their asses to stay in there good books. I would be a fool not too.

You don't agree with the action of the livestock and sheep committee and I do and we're definitely not going to sort it here.
I can't say to farmers what you have just said here or I'd be told I'm in the factories pockets.....of course they told me what you're telling me but I don't believe them, There is no reason to pull prices at the moment

manjou · 21-09-2013 02:49PM

rancher wrote: »

You don't agree with the action of the livestock and sheep committee and I do and we're definitely not going to sort it here.
I can't say to farmers what you have just said here or I'd be told I'm in the factories pockets.....of course they told me what you're telling me but I don't believe them, There is no reason to pull prices at the moment

The reason the factories are dropping their is because they can.Any factory buyer will tell you the fastest way to fill lairages is to drop price and they have being doing this since forever.And vice versa if they want to lower kill.Protesting at supermarkets only gives them free puplicity and makes no difference to prices.If the ifa want to sit down with factories then find out what they want and come up with a way to market irish cattle to get best price.

severeoversteer · 21-09-2013 07:25PM

bob charles wrote: »

. There is harder trimming in UK so say 5c a kilo maybe less.

I reckon bob over the years that its closer to 25 or 30 cent per kilo as my kill out up the north and in factories in the south owned by uk factories is 52-55% in my bullocks,

whereas its between 56-59 % in my local factories

on the occasion that there is 40 cent a kilo difference in the price offered I go to the north buts its only once a year it tend to be that way

bob charles · 21-09-2013 08:13PM

severeoversteer wrote: »

I reckon bob over the years that its closer to 25 or 30 cent per kilo as my kill out up the north and in factories in the south owned by uk factories is 52-55% in my bullocks,

whereas its between 56-59 % in my local factories

on the occasion that there is 40 cent a kilo difference in the price offered I go to the north buts its only once a year it tend to be that way

never taught it was that much of a difference, I have never slaughtered any number worth while in the North so I cant say.

So your saying the price difference would have to be 40c kilo before you would consider it?

I hear stores are an absolute rob in the north at the moment.

severeoversteer · 21-09-2013 09:25PM

the thing that annoys me is the price of weanlings, all the half decent continental weanlings are destined for 16 month bull beef it seems

but anyway, the differance would want to be 40 cent but im taking into account transport weight loss aswell, another issue i had with north is payment, and that you load them - they go to dublin for the rest of the day and night - they loaded up and brought to north to a yard owned by factory,

they wait until they have gb cattle killed before they kill the republic cattle and they bring the lorry of irish cattle to whichever factory had a low kill that day

had cattle loaded for tyrone , turned out they were killed in derry

for local factory the way its done now is i have a small field beside the yard, i go out at bout 5 in morn round them up into pen loaded by 6 and killed by 7 or half 7 and driver calls in with cheque as early as 9 or 10 or before lunch anyway. cant beat it i think

bob charles · 21-09-2013 09:41PM

severeoversteer wrote: »

the thing that annoys me is the price of weanlings, all the half decent continental weanlings are destined for 16 month bull beef it seems

but anyway, the differance would want to be 40 cent but im taking into account transport weight loss aswell, another issue i had with north is payment, and that you load them - they go to dublin for the rest of the day and night - they loaded up and brought to north to a yard owned by factory,

they wait until they have gb cattle killed before they kill the republic cattle and they bring the lorry of irish cattle to whichever factory had a low kill that day

had cattle loaded for tyrone , turned out they were killed in derry

for local factory the way its done now is i have a small field beside the yard, i go out at bout 5 in morn round them up into pen loaded by 6 and killed by 7 or half 7 and driver calls in with cheque as early as 9 or 10 or before lunch anyway. cant beat it i think

that all sounds a bit dodge about the waiting for where to send the truck, I presume they wouldnt be too happy if you wanted to watch your animals being killed:).

Fresh kill in my view is also worth 5c kg at min. Im the same as you round up and drop in the cattle either around midnight or early in the morning, killed by 10am and no problem with payment. Its not that many years ago we were getting bank drafts and told run to the bank and hope for the best:eek:, some change around

rancher · 22-09-2013 08:14AM

severeoversteer wrote: »

the thing that annoys me is the price of weanlings, all the half decent continental weanlings are destined for 16 month bull beef it seems

but anyway, the differance would want to be 40 cent but im taking into account transport weight loss aswell, another issue i had with north is payment, and that you load them - they go to dublin for the rest of the day and night - they loaded up and brought to north to a yard owned by factory,

they wait until they have gb cattle killed before they kill the republic cattle and they bring the lorry of irish cattle to whichever factory had a low kill that day

had cattle loaded for tyrone , turned out they were killed in derry

for local factory the way its done now is i have a small field beside the yard, i go out at bout 5 in morn round them up into pen loaded by 6 and killed by 7 or half 7 and driver calls in with cheque as early as 9 or 10 or before lunch anyway. cant beat it i think

Well done, everyone should insist on getting the cheque on the day their cattle are killed.

just do it · 22-09-2013 08:47AM

rancher wrote: »

Well done, everyone should insist on getting the cheque on the day their cattle are killed.

Bull, I've prefer an extra 40c/kg 3-7 days later rather than the cheque on the day. The cheque on the day is only a red herring.

rancher · 22-09-2013 09:33AM

just do it wrote: »

Bull, I've prefer an extra 40c/kg 3-7 days later rather than the cheque on the day. The cheque on the day is only a red herring.

That's because you've never been caught out, It amazed me how many farmers had cheques 3 or 4 weeks old or even months in one case,
40c/kg is a great help on a cheque that bounces

bob charles · 22-09-2013 09:50AM

just do it wrote: »

Bull, I've prefer an extra 40c/kg 3-7 days later rather than the cheque on the day. The cheque on the day is only a red herring.

There isnt that much of a price difference between the payers and slow payers. I would deal with a fast payer for 5c less anyday

severeoversteer · 22-09-2013 11:17AM

just do it wrote: »

Bull, I've prefer an extra 40c/kg 3-7 days later rather than the cheque on the day. The cheque on the day is only a red herring.

what I have found is that all the factories be they 10 or 20 cent higher or lower than each other, you end up getting the same money because think about it if one lad is trimming and animal in one factory and another in another who trims the same or who trims the most ?

Answer = beef animals destined for England or owned by uk factorys are trimmed the most, uk factories remove brisket and flank fat on a carcase

I have found through painstakingly weighing cattle before factory that the kill out in certain factories varies considerably

northern kill out = 53.5%

local factory killout = 57% (averages)

on a 700kg bullock 53.5% = 374.5kg carcase
57% = 399 kg carcase

if local factory is paying 4 a kilo then

399-374.5 = 24.5 kg x €4 = €98

so then if you divide that money by the uk weight 98/374.5=0.26 cent

so on an average animal the price would want to be 26 cent more in the hard trimming factories and up the north and uk

then you add on transport and you are closer to 30 cent

last animals I sent to uk factory was waiting 3 weeks for cheque:mad:

just do it · 22-09-2013 12:29PM

rancher wrote: »

That's because you've never been caught out, It amazed me how many farmers had cheques 3 or 4 weeks old or even months in one case,
40c/kg is a great help on a cheque that bounces

A cheque received on the day is as likely to bounce as a cheque received a week later.

just do it · 22-09-2013 12:40PM

bob charles wrote: »

There isnt that much of a price difference between the payers and slow payers. I would deal with a fast payer for 5c less anyday

5cent less on a 400kg carcase is €20. At €4/kg that's €20 on €1,600 for 7 days. That works out at an annual interest rate of 65%. Lets say you're willing to wait a month for that payment it is still an attractive interest rate of 15%.

bob charles · 22-09-2013 12:53PM

just do it wrote: »

5cent less on a 400kg carcase is €20. At €4/kg that's €20 on €1,600 for 7 days. That works out at an annual interest rate of 65%. Lets say you're willing to wait a month for that payment it is still an attractive interest rate of 15%.

I would be out of business if I was waiting for a full months cattle. it would be €15 less on the average animal. The longer you are waiting for a cheque the greater the risk of default on payment. If payment is forthcoming after a month you have didly squat in challenging any weight or grade that maybe wrong. Just my view, give me a local processor where I can view animals slaughtered and know who I am dealing with anyday and I will deal with these guys at a deduction of 5c less. Going around the country looking for quotes is a fruitless waste of time, if you always deal with the one processor you will be on a preferred list if you need to get animals slaughter at short notice,casualty etc.

severeoversteer · 22-09-2013 02:35PM

just do it wrote: »

5cent less on a 400kg carcase is €20. QUOTE]

you don't get me, what im saying is if you could kill the same bullock twice in two factories

1 up the north and 1 down the road

if the bullock weighed 700 kg he would be a heavier carcase in the local factory and a lighter carcase up the north because they trim them to uk spec

the price of €4 local is the exact same as getting €4.30 far away up north

just do it · 22-09-2013 07:01PM

We're all arguing different points here. 5c/kg for guaranteed payment is a different argument to delayed, but guaranteed, payment. When I've sent the odd cull cow I was able to get how she killed out over the phone that evening or following morning. I agree completely with sticking with the one processor. Relationship building and repeat business is important in every business.

Severeoversteer. I wasn't challenging your point at all and it points out like isn't being compared with like. Interestingly I got the british farmers weekly magazine last week and the UK prices quoted I thought weren't as high as those quoted by the IFA.

My argument is against that of the IFA. Surely they should insist factories are bonded in order to ensure farmers are guaranteed payment. From what Bob is saying this appears to be a problem. Also forward contacts would be beneficial. Substantial changes like this would mean guaranteeing payment on the day wouldn't be such a big issue?

Muckit · 22-09-2013 08:27PM

Anyone get any prices for heifers this week?

TUBBY · 22-09-2013 08:40PM

E4 on grid for underage butcher type heifers along with QA bonus.

Neighbour got 4.08 up east this week but I had deal done so no stir

rancher · 22-09-2013 09:56PM

just do it wrote: »

A cheque received on the day is as likely to bounce as a cheque received a week later.

And in the meantime there is another weeks kill not paid for.
The sooner you find out that the daily kill is not being paid for, the less farmers that get caught out

Muckit · 23-09-2013 02:47PM

Is the day of trying to sell 28-29mth old cattle in the mart (ie that have less than 70 days for QA left) a waste of time now?

Anyone care to comment?

bob charles · 23-09-2013 03:40PM

Muckit wrote: »

Is the day of trying to sell 28-29mth old cattle in the mart (ie that have less than 70 days for QA left) a waste of time now?

Anyone care to comment?

Nope, I dont think so, I personally dont take allot of notice when an animal enters the ring if they are QA qualifying. Often let cattle with good potential, run over 30 months as there potential gain could be allot more than the 12c. When QA was 6c it was a waste of time

Muckit · 23-09-2013 04:03PM

bob charles wrote: »

Nope, I dont think so, I personally dont take allot of notice when an animal enters the ring if they are QA qualifying. Often let cattle with good potential, run over 30 months as there potential gain could be allot more than the 12c. When QA was 6c it was a waste of time

Well I'm surprised with that Bob, but sure I suppose if they can be fed into a U- as opposed to grading an R=

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