Halloween/racialism

Fr_Dougal · 20-09-2013 09:34PM

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

No, genuinely I would see it as taking the piss out of the Minstrel era rather than being a dig at the coloured race.

Coloured...oooohhhh...

sok2005 · 20-09-2013 10:02PM

Mac from It's Always Sunny. That's the only way to pull it off.

Henlars67 · 20-09-2013 10:18PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Coloured...oooohhhh...

There is actually a 'coloured' race. They're found mainly in South Africa & Zimbabwe.

There is also an association of African Americans in the states which has several hundred thousand members called the 'National Association for the Advancement of Colored People',whose mission statement is

"To ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate racial hatred and racial discrimination."

But of course use of the word 'coloured' is racist

Nodin · 20-09-2013 10:24PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

There is actually a 'coloured' race. They're found mainly in South Africa & Zimbabwe.

It's Mr "Nothing Is Racist".

There's no such thing as "race" scientifically. The "coloured" in Africa are those of (generally) mixed European and African ancestry.

Henlars67 · 20-09-2013 10:27PM

Nodin wrote: »

It's Mr "Nothing Is Racist".

There's no such thing as "race" scientifically. The "coloured" in Africa are those of (generally) mixed European and African ancestry.

It's the likes of you who think everything is racist who lead to real instances of racism not being taken nearly as seriously as they shouldbe.

I am well aware of the origins of the coloured in Africa.

Nodin · 20-09-2013 10:30PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

It's the likes of you who think everything is racist who lead to real instances of racism not being taken nearly as seriously as they shouldbe..

I wasn't aware I thought everything was racist. thanks for informing me.

Henlars67 wrote: »

I am well aware of the origins of the coloured in Africa.

...then why did you call them a "race"?

Links234 · 20-09-2013 10:33PM

http://www.lolbrary.com/content/462/black-hitler-14462.gif

Henlars67 · 20-09-2013 10:34PM

Nodin wrote: »

I wasn't aware I thought everything was racist. thanks for informing me.

...then why did you call them a "race"?

Was I being racist by calling them a race? I apologise, I really should have known. Is there anything I can refer to this particular group of people as that will meet your approval and that you won't deem racist?

Nodin · 20-09-2013 10:50PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

Was I being racist by calling them a race?

No, factually incorrect. If anything, they're an ethnic group.

nlgbbbblth · 20-09-2013 11:18PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

Was I being racist by calling them a race? I apologise, I really should have known. Is there anything I can refer to this particular group of people as that will meet your approval and that you won't deem racist?

Just call them black and stop making a fuss.

:rolleyes:

Henlars67 · 20-09-2013 11:21PM

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Just call them black and stop making a fuss.

:rolleyes:

But they aren't black

nlgbbbblth · 20-09-2013 11:32PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

But they aren't black

My comment was directed more at your

But of course use of the word 'coloured' is racist

Think of James Brown
"Say it loud / I'm black and I'm proud" and you won't go wrong.

Femme_Fatale · 20-09-2013 11:33PM

I think the reason people object to the term "coloured" is: everyone is a colour. I'm not saying it offends me, just saying that's the reason why non white people don't like it.

Killer Wench · 20-09-2013 11:38PM

I'm Black and blackface offends me. As do Native mascots that misappropriate Native culture for commercial gain.

Blackface is done as a way to mock black individuals. People exaggerate their speech, pretend like they are jive-brothas talkin' to other jive-brothas. They pull out watermelon, fried chicken, and other stupid stereotypes in order to make their mimicry funnier. It is not done to honor black folk. It certainly isn't done to pay homage to the generations of oppression that many black communities have suffered through. It is the way of the oppressor to continue to oppress the oppressed. My identity means everything to me, but my identity means a joke to you.

It's buffoonery.

Niall Keane · 20-09-2013 11:38PM

So it's Halloween
And you feel like dancin'
And you feel like shinin'
And you feel like letting loose

Whatcha gonna be
Babe, you better know
And you better plan
Better plan all day

Better plan all week
Better plan all month
Better plan all year

You're dressed up like a clown
Putting on your act
It's the only time all year
You'll ever admit that

I can see your eyes
I can see your brain
Baby, nothing's changed

You're still hiding in a mask
You take your fun seriously
No, don't blow this year's chance
Tomorrow your mold goes back on

After Halloween

You go to work today
You'll go to work tomorrow
****faced tonight
You'll brag about it for months

Remember what I did
Remember what I was
Back on Halloween

But what's in between
Where are your ideas
You sit around and dream
For next Halloween

Why not everyday
Are you so afraid
What will people say

After Halloween

Because your role is planned for you
There's nothing you can do
But stop and think it through
But what will the boss say to you

And what will your girlfriend say to you
And the people out on the street they might glare at you
And whadya know you're pretty self-conscious too

So you run back and stuff yourselves in rigid business costumes
Only at night to score is your leather uniform exhumed
Why don't you take your social regulations
And shove 'em up your ass

(Dead Kennedys)

Femme_Fatale · 20-09-2013 11:39PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Blackface is done as a way to mock black individuals... My identity means everything to me, but my identity means a joke to you.

Even if that's not the intention?

Killer Wench · 20-09-2013 11:42PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Even if that's not the intention?

What gain would one get from putting dark makeup on their face, exaggerating the shape or color of their lips, putting on a nappy haired wig, and then appropriating Black speech patterns?

Would it be for the laugh?

Femme_Fatale · 20-09-2013 11:45PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

What gain would one get from putting dark makeup on their face, exaggerating the shape or color of their lips, putting on a nappy haired wig, and then appropriating Black speech patterns?

Would it be for the laugh?

What if they just want to look like the person they're dressing up as?

Killer Wench · 20-09-2013 11:49PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

What if they just want to look like the person they're dressing up as?

And what is that they admire about this person that they'd want to dress like them?

Femme_Fatale · 20-09-2013 11:50PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

And what is that they admire about this person that they'd want to dress like them?

What is it that anyone admires about anyone when they dress up as them? They just want to dress up as them.

If I wanted to dress up as Marilyn Monroe, I'd need a blonde wig in order to look as close to her as I could - it's just physical resemblance being looked for.

Killer Wench · 20-09-2013 11:56PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

What is it that anyone admires about anyone when they dress up as them? They just want to dress up as them.

If I wanted to dress up as Marilyn Monroe, I'd need a blonde wig in order to look as close to her as I could - it's just physical resemblance being looked for.

Yeah, and if I dressed up like Marilyn Monroe, I would put on a blonde wig and a white dress. I certainly wouldn't WHITEN my skin in order to pull it off.

Look, I'm not going to give you (general) a pass to put black make-up on just so you can have a laugh with friends. If misappropriating an ethnic identity is your thing, go for it. I think it's buffoonery.

Miss Lockhart · 20-09-2013 11:57PM

I don't know. A black person putting on white makeup wouldn't bother me. And English people dressing up as leprechauns in Temple Bar and saying begosh and begorrah doesn't offend me.

I think the intent is important. I can't say I find buffoonery offensive.

Killer Wench · 21-09-2013 12:02AM

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Ridiculous buffoonery in my opinion.

Killer Wench · 21-09-2013 12:10AM

"Why you silly ol' colored person, don't you know you shouldn't be offended when all I mean to do is honor your black ass," she said.

"Well, massa, I guess if you don' mean no harm then I shoz nuff ain't sayin' nuthin. U kno this here negro ain't no my own mine or nuthin'," I said.

"Just as I imagined. If it's just all in good fun, then don't you worry. You have no reason to be offended. Bless your ignorant heart," she said.

"I'z kno it," I said.

Femme_Fatale · 21-09-2013 12:13AM

Finding offence where none is intended is silly.

Killer Wench · 21-09-2013 12:16AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Finding offence where none is intended is silly.

So, by this argument, when a female feels sexually harassed by a male colleague, and his argument is, "I didn't mean any offense", then her feelings mean nothing, right?

Miss Lockhart · 21-09-2013 12:19AM

What's so bad about buffoonery? I thought that's what Halloween was all about really.

I think there are times when doing this would be clearly about making fun of or being derogatory towards black people (minstrels or general fried chicken type references) and there are other times when it would just be about dressing up and looking silly(dressing as a black celebrity). And I think refusing to accept there is a difference and looking to attribute malicious intent or attach cultural guilt to whole races is being deliberately obtuse.

Killer Wench · 21-09-2013 12:20AM

If a woman is sexually harassed and the person who harassed her didn't mean to offend, does that mean she should not be offended?

ETA: As a Black person from the US where there is a long history of minstrel shows mocking my community, I find any instance of ethnic appropriation to be suspect. I do not condone it. I find it pure buffoonery. I'm not changing my opinion on that. I don't give a **** if their intention wasn't to offend because the result is still offensive.

At this point, no altering of your initial question will change my opinion. I'm not going to give you a pass or say that in this narrow instance, it must be okay. You don't have to agree with my opinion. There may be other black folk who might feel different. We are all entitled to our opinion.

Miss Lockhart · 21-09-2013 12:22AM

Killer Wench wrote: »

If a woman is sexually harassed and the person who harassed her didn't mean to offend, does that mean she should not be offended?

If she is harrassed then she is harrassed. Just because she is offended doesn't mean she has been harrassed.

Killer Wench · 21-09-2013 12:26AM

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

If she is harrassed then she is harrassed. Just because she is offended doesn't mean she has been harrassed.

I think you're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, at this point. Next.

Halloween/racialism

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