Not again - Mass shooting in Chicago - MOD WARNING Post #1

Amerika · 20-09-2013 11:57AM

And yet Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws??? Go figure!!! Gang activity using illegally obtained guns is the best bet. Perhaps Chicago should look harder at what has worked well in New York City with "stop and frisk."

CiDeRmAn · 20-09-2013 12:15PM

Dean0088 wrote: »

This won't change a thing in the US.

They love their guns so much they'll live in fear of others owning them.

A firearm belongs in the hand of two kinds of people. Trained professionals and justified revolutionaries.

There is simply no need for a gun among average, urban citizens.

And yet we have the Canadian experience to contrast with that of the US.
Yes, they have gun crime, they have also, unfortunately, have had mass shootings of their own, but they appear to be thankfully few Spree_shootings_in_Canada
Canada is only across the border from the US, they share language and land mass yet gun ownership in the US is 94.3 per 100 people while in Canada it's 30.8 guns per 100 of the population.
Ireland is in at 8.6 guns per 100 people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Rented Mule · 20-09-2013 12:18PM

pale blue dot cotton wrote: »

Where they predominantly white or black? White and this will be an 'awful tragedy'. Black and it'll be forgotten before Monday.

Harsh facts of crime in Chicago.

It's a harsh fact because it is so common in the 'black' neighborhoods. The funny thing is that you don't see the media whores (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) running to these neighborhoods to draw attention to shootings/murders because they are being done by 'black people'.

I know Cornell Square Park very well. I grew up less than 10 minutes from there. Once the neighborhood 'changed', it wasn't worth the effort going there, just like the majority (and I do mean majority)of other Chicago Park District parks. This is coming from someone who worked in the CPD for ten years.

Rented Mule · 20-09-2013 12:21PM

Amerika wrote: »

And yet Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws??? Go figure!!! Gang activity using illegally obtained guns is the best bet. Perhaps Chicago should look harder at what has worked well in New York City with "stop and frisk."

These laws are in the process of being changed. The Illinois legislature has been forced by the appellate courts to allow 'conceal carry' in the State of Illinois. As far as I know, they are still in the process of getting the licensing process together.

Marcus Halberstram · 20-09-2013 12:25PM

Nothing new for Chicago. On the 4th of July weekend past, 72 people were shot in Chicago.

Not a blip in the media about it.

Just google "People shot in Chicago this weekend" and look at the results.

Unbelievable.

crockholm · 20-09-2013 01:10PM

Good ol'south and westside Chicago-how I miss you. Truth is,as long as Rahm and the CPD keep the thugs out of downtown and in their own neighbourhoods,I don't really care what they do.I'm even surprised this shooting made the news, worse has happened in the city(fatalities wise) already this year-see Jonylah Watkins for instance.Mindless.

Amerika · 20-09-2013 01:18PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

These laws are in the process of being changed. The Illinois legislature has been forced by the appellate courts to allow 'conceal carry' in the State of Illinois. As far as I know, they are still in the process of getting the licensing process together.

It will be interesting to see what happens when it does... perhaps we will see the rate in the murder capital of the US go down. But I doubt there will be any significant change, excpet that the law abiding innocents will have a way to protect themselves, if Chicago continues to allow rampant gang activity to run amok.

StinkyMunkey · 20-09-2013 01:24PM

And the cycle continues.

Its a pity that people are so against reforming the gun laws in the states, i think a happy medium could be found so everyone is happy (and no i dont know what that happy medium is, but then again i dont live in a country with a gun culture).

crockholm · 20-09-2013 01:31PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

It's a harsh fact because it is so common in the 'black' neighborhoods. The funny thing is that you don't see the media whores (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) running to these neighborhoods to draw attention to shootings/murders because they are being done by 'black people'.

I know Cornell Square Park very well. I grew up less than 10 minutes from there. Once the neighborhood 'changed', it wasn't worth the effort going there, just like the majority (and I do mean majority)of other Chicago Park District parks. This is coming from someone who worked in the CPD for ten years.

I think Jesse's hands might be full looking after junior at the moment;):D

Rented Mule · 20-09-2013 01:39PM

crockholm wrote: »

Good ol'south and westside Chicago-how I miss you. Truth is,as long as Rahm and the CPD keep the thugs out of downtown and in their own neighbourhoods,I don't really care what they do.I'm even surprised this shooting made the news, worse has happened in the city(fatalities wise) already this year-see Jonylah Watkins for instance.Mindless.

The problem is that they have been covering the crimes committed on the Mag Mile for a decade now. There are roaming bands of ghetto rats that have been robbing mobile phones for years. It has only started making the news.

The other thing that is not reported are the 'flash mobs' of these same ghetto rats robbing the stores on Michigan Avenue. Security guards are tazered and then it's a mad frenzy to grab everything and get back to the subway/el. Not a word in the media about it.

Rented Mule · 20-09-2013 01:43PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

And the cycle continues.

Its a pity that people are so against reforming the gun laws in the states, i think a happy medium could be found so everyone is happy (and no i dont know what that happy medium is, but then again i dont live in a country with a gun culture).

Do you think that the person who did this shooting acquired the gun legally ? Do you think that the person who did this shooting cares about gun reform ?

There are over 223 million guns in the United States. You're never going to get them off of the streets. You'd be facing a full on revolution if you tried to take guns off of law abiding citizens.

crockholm · 20-09-2013 01:48PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

The problem is that they have been covering the crimes committed on the Mag Mile for a decade now. There are roaming bands of ghetto rats that have been robbing mobile phones for years. It has only started making the news.

The other thing that is not reported are the 'flash mobs' of these same ghetto rats robbing the stores on Michigan Avenue. Security guards are tazered and then it's a mad frenzy to grab everything and get back to the subway/el. Not a word in the media about it.

Well aware of it,anything near the red line is a target.It really is a sad state when you check "Flash mob" from New York and Chicago,one is performance art and the other is tourists robbed of their phones and cash.

It is a problem for Rahm alright.But hopefully those rats will be chalked up in Englewood sooner rather than later.

Sunglasses Ron · 20-09-2013 01:49PM

Amerika wrote: »

And yet Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws??? Go figure!!! Gang activity using illegally obtained guns is the best bet. Perhaps Chicago should look harder at what has worked well in New York City with "stop and frisk."

Aren't most gun crimes committed with formerly legally held handguns obtained during burglaries?

Work that one out "Amerika" :pac: (the fact you likely voted for Romney and the Palin VP ticket makes me...well, you know)

StinkyMunkey · 20-09-2013 02:04PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

Do you think that the person who did this shooting acquired the gun legally ? Do you think that the person who did this shooting cares about gun reform ?

There are over 223 million guns in the United States. You're never going to get them off of the streets. You'd be facing a full on revolution if you tried to take guns off of law abiding citizens.

Fact is there was another senseless mass shooting. Ask yourself, if there was stricter gun controls, could that person have gotten a gun as easily, or for that fact would there be as many black market guns out there.

Who said anything about taking guns off anyone?? Are you talking about banning guns? And thats a very good point, yes the general populace would rather wage war or revolution on the authorities if they tried to take away their precious right to have an arsenal in their homes.

Amerika · 20-09-2013 02:10PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Aren't most gun crimes committed with formerly legally held handguns obtained during burglaries?

Work that one out "Amerika" :pac:

Well, estimates are there are about 300 million guns in America. Do you propose ignoring the US Constitution and confiscating all the guns for the good of the people? With that type of thinking next you’ll be calling for the exportation of blacks and hispanics, as when you take them out of the equation the US would be on par with Belgium on gun deaths… for the good of the people of course.

Better law enforcement on existing laws, targeting gang activity with a vengeance, and not putting criminals with extensive rap sheets back on the streets in record breaking times might be the better path.

(the fact you likely voted for Romney and the Palin VP ticket makes me...well, you know)

... Hopeful???

Sunglasses Ron · 20-09-2013 02:18PM

Amerika wrote: »

Well, estimates are there are about 300 million guns in America. Do you propose ignoring the US Constitution and confiscating all the guns for the good of the people?

Apart from hunting weapons, yes, within 40 years of passing such a law the US might be a more rational society.

With that type of thinking next you’ll be calling for the exportation of blacks and hispanics, as when you take them out of the equation the US would be on par with Belgium on gun deaths… for the good of the people of course.

Ireland has one of the biggest gun problems in Europe. The vast majority of which involve a small amount of smuggled weapons from the Balkans. If every second burglary in Ireland yielded a cache of handguns do you reckon we might have a higher rate of gun crime? For all this talk of the right to personal protection relatively few burglars seem to regularly get killed in the US.

Witcher · 20-09-2013 02:20PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Apart from hunting weapons, yes, within 40 years of passing such a law the US might be a more rational society.

Define 'hunting weapon'.

theGEM · 20-09-2013 02:21PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Ireland has one of the biggest gun problems in Europe. The vast majority of which involve a small amount of smuggled weapons from the Balkans. If every second burglary in Ireland yielded a cache of handguns do you reckon we might have a higher rate of gun crime? For all this talk of the right to personal protection relatively few burglars seem to regularly get killed in the US.

c. 260 every year

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

crockholm · 20-09-2013 02:29PM

I used to live in the southside of Chicago,a community area(one of 77 in Chicago city) called Mount Greenwood.It is the last of the blue-collar Irish/white neighbourhoods in the south side(cabbagetown being no collar). The place is top heavy with guns,partly due to many police,firemen and armed forces personnel in the area.NRA signs and bumper stickers are plentiful.
Yet looking at records,starting on Jan 1st 2007 to today, there have been 0 homicides in that community area. What Irish town of 20,000 inhabitants has had 0 homicides over the same period?

20-09-2013 02:30PM

You know the executive branches priority will never be to reduce any death in the states.

This is a major thorn in their side. How can American politicians actually feign about caring about this gun thing all the while doing absolutely nothing? A true challenge, it must be.

Sunglasses Ron · 20-09-2013 02:48PM

theGEM wrote: »

c. 260 every year

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

So less than one in a million adults.

With a prison population the size it is I reckon a large amount of American citizens commit burglaries every year, yet only 250 die? Far from protecting one's castle it would seem most burglars strike during the empty house working day and take the guns with them.

Out of curiousity how many regular citizens are murdered during burglaries per year? I am willing to bet the number is less than the amount of law abiding citizens who died at Aurora and Sandy Hook in the same period.

Amerika · 20-09-2013 02:49PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Apart from hunting weapons, yes, within 40 years of passing such a law the US might be a more rational society.

Hmmm... Since we are deciding what best be done (and ignoring ones rights), based simply on stereotypical images of Americans, how about we turn the tables and institute prohibition in Ireland in an attempt to produce a more rational society? :pac:

GalwayGuy2 · 20-09-2013 02:53PM

Um, nobody knows what happened there.

I have no idea why people are talking like it's a school shooting with a legally bought gun.

ScumLord · 20-09-2013 03:19PM

seanie_c wrote: »

This is terrible tragedy, no doubt there.

What I don't understand is why gun related deaths get more exposure from the mainstream media than other issues.

500,000 people die every year from cigarettes in the US, 10% of those from second hand smoke.

100,000 people die every year from hospital infections in the US.

80,000 deaths per year attributed to alcohol consumption.

38,000 suicides in 2011 for America.

32,000 homicides involving guns.

8 million people worldwide die of starvation every year, or about 25,000 per day.

You could go on and on...guns are not the only thing killing people out there.

Pretty much all those things are natural deaths caused from lifestyle choices though. People are going to die from things, that's accepted but people having their lives cut short by someone with a gun and a personal issue is something that can be prevented simply by not having access to a gun.

If Ireland had the same access to guns as the Americans do, it's likely we'd have as many if not more shootings. A person can change their mind on a goods night sleep, guns make it to easy to kill someone in an instant. No ordinary person needs that kind of power.

Rented Mule · 20-09-2013 03:29PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Um, nobody knows what happened there.

I have no idea why people are talking like it's a school shooting with a legally bought gun.

Well we do know that the perpetrator is not suspected to be 'white' (or even Hispanic). If this weren't the case, there would be people lining up in the streets calling for 'justice'. Apparently, this is just another case of 'black on black' crime, so it will pass quite unremarkably with all of the other shootings/murders in the Chicago ghettos.

I am pie · 20-09-2013 03:35PM

Reap what you sow, the guns are out there and they aren't coming back in. An armed society will have a much higher rate gun crime. All the laws and reforms in the world wouldn't have changed what happened today.

Manic Moran · 20-09-2013 05:48PM

Amerika wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what happens when it does... perhaps we will see the rate in the murder capital of the US go down. But I doubt there will be any significant change, excpet that the law abiding innocents will have a way to protect themselves, if Chicago continues to allow rampant gang activity to run amok.

The 7th Circuit suggested that heavy restrictions may well pass muster (They referenced New York, which is as close to 'you're not going to get a license to carry' as it's possible to get), just that the utter, complete ban that Illinois had was not going to fly.

Incidently, the Illinois Supreme Court judged last week that a conviction on carrying a weapon had to be reversed as the ban was so comprehensive as to be unconstitutional. (The legislation he was charged under has since been changed as a result of the 7th Circuit opinion).

In any case, we all expect that despite the legal fictions, Chicago is still going to be, in effect, a 'no guns allowed' city, much like where I am here in California.

MadsL · 20-09-2013 06:09PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

And the cycle continues.

Its a pity that people are so against reforming the gun laws in the states, i think a happy medium could be found so everyone is happy (and no i dont know what that happy medium is, but then again i dont live in a country with a gun culture).

You do. A quick look at a couple of forums in Rec will confirm that. 233,120 firearms certificates are active in Ireland.

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Fact is there was another senseless mass shooting. Ask yourself, if there was stricter gun controls, could that person have gotten a gun as easily, or for that fact would there be as many black market guns out there.

Given that Chicago has very tough laws on handguns, and then this happens, what does it say about the effectiveness of such controls?

StinkyMunkey · 20-09-2013 08:40PM

MadsL wrote: »

You do. A quick look at a couple of forums in Rec will confirm that. 233,120 firearms certificates are active in Ireland.

Given that Chicago has very tough laws on handguns, and then this happens, what does it say about the effectiveness of such controls?

So very wrong, Ireland does not have a gun culture. An exercise in proving this would be to ask anyone on the street where is the nearest gun shop is! Another good exercise would be to ask your typical civilian to explain various different types of guns or ammo. Your constant reminder to various posters on boards telling them they don't know what thier talking about when coming to guns also confirms the lack of gun culture in Ireland.

Good for you and your stats, yes thier is a lot of shot guns owned by farmers in Ireland. Now ask the average person how many people they know own "military style weapons". Or for that fact how many people owns firearms. Do those stats include military and police firearms?

More guns = more guns deaths
More cars = more car crashes
More beans = more farts

Witcher · 20-09-2013 08:51PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Good for you and your stats, yes thier is a lot of shot guns owned by farmers in Ireland.

There are a lot more firearms available in Ireland than shotguns. Even the famous 'military grade, high powered, rapid fire assault weapon' known as the AR-15 and its derivatives.

Not again - Mass shooting in Chicago - MOD WARNING Post #1

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