Not again - Mass shooting in Chicago - MOD WARNING Post #1

up for anything

It's reported now that 11 people are injured including a young child. No word on the shooter(s) yet.

A Chicago police spokesman says several people have been shot in a park located in a neighbourhood in the southwest of the city.

It is thought the shooting happened on the city's South Side at 10.15pm on Thursday night.

An officer with Chicago Police News Affairs told CBS "multiple people" had sustained gunshot wounds and were taken to hospitals in the area.

The ages and victims and extent of injuries weren't immediately available.

CNN reported that a child and 10 adults were hit by the gunfire.

No one is in custody.

FBI figures have shown that Chicago has become the murder capital of the US with 500 deaths in the last year.

edited to correct wrong info.

Sky News


MOD NOTE - This thread is about a shooting in Chicago. It is NOT a thread about gun laws, about any gripes you have about America or anything other than the shooting in Chicago. So stick to the topic.

jeepers101

That report says ten people have been shot. Doesn't say they're dead.

dobman88

jeepers101 wrote: »

That report says ten people have been shot. Doesn't say they're dead.

So it is okay for someone to shoot people, just don't kill them??? :rolleyes:

jeepers101

dobman88 wrote: »

So it is okay for someone to shoot people, just don't kill them??? :rolleyes:

Seriously? What part of my post implied that? I was merely adding info to the first post that stated eleven people were dead.

seanie_c

This is terrible tragedy, no doubt there.

What I don't understand is why gun related deaths get more exposure from the mainstream media than other issues.

500,000 people die every year from cigarettes in the US, 10% of those from second hand smoke.

100,000 people die every year from hospital infections in the US.

80,000 deaths per year attributed to alcohol consumption.

38,000 suicides in 2011 for America.

32,000 homicides involving guns.

8 million people worldwide die of starvation every year, or about 25,000 per day.

You could go on and on...guns are not the only thing killing people out there.

dobman88

jeepers101 wrote: »

Seriously? What part of my post implied that? I was merely adding info to the first post that stated eleven people were dead.

If adding info was your reason then fair enough. Your 1st post just sounded like it was ok to shoot people but don't kill them.

Tristram

dobman88 wrote: »

If adding info was your reason then fair enough. Your 1st post just sounded like it was ok to shoot people but don't kill them.

Don't know where you got that from.

up for anything

jeepers101 wrote: »

That report says ten people have been shot. Doesn't say they're dead.

Apologies. You're correct. I was listening to the news report on the tv rather than reading it and I suppose in my head shooting is synonymous with dead.

up for anything

Twelve people, including a 3-year-old child, were shot at a Chicago park in the Back of the Yards neighborhood Thursday night, authorities said.

Ten adults and the 3-year-old were transported by Fire Department ambulances after in the attack in the 1800 block of West 51st Street in the Back of the Yards neighborhood, said Fire Department Deputy District Chief James Mungovan. A 12th victim was believed to have driven himself to Little Company of Mary Hospital in Evergreen Park, a source said, citing preliminary information.

Three of the victims, including the child, were taken to local hospitals in serious-to-critical condition, according to the Fire Department's news office. Four were in fair-to-serious condition, and four were in good-to-fair condition, according to the Fire Department. Victims were taken to hospitals including Northwestern Memorial Hospital, John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital, and Mount Sinai, Holy Cross and St. Anthony hospitals.

A witness at the scene said three police officers carried the child to an ambulance.

"I didn't hear no sounds," from the child, he said.

The attack took place about about 10:15 p.m. and fire officials called an Emergency Medical Services Plan II, sending at least 10 ambulances to the scene.

A total of at least 11 people were shot, including the 3-year-old, who was shot in the face, according to a source.

As of 11 p.m., Police News Affairs could only confirm that multiple people were shot at the location.

More here - Chicago Tribune

pale blue dot cotton

Where they predominantly white or black? White and this will be an 'awful tragedy'. Black and it'll be forgotten before Monday.

Harsh facts of crime in Chicago.

massdebater

seanie_c wrote: »

This is terrible tragedy, no doubt there.

What I don't understand is why gun related deaths get more exposure from the mainstream media than other issues.

500,000 people die every year from cigarettes in the US, 10% of those from second hand smoke.

100,000 people die every year from hospital infections in the US.

80,000 deaths per year attributed to alcohol consumption.

38,000 suicides in 2011 for America.

32,000 homicides involving guns.

8 million people worldwide die of starvation every year, or about 25,000 per day.

You could go on and on...guns are not the only thing killing people out there.

You should start a thread about those other things. This thread is about guns.

Sinfonia

pale blue dot cotton wrote: »

Where they predominantly white or black? White and this will be an 'awful tragedy'. Black and it'll be forgotten before Monday.

Harsh facts of crime in Chicago.

Black.

massdebater wrote: »

You should start a thread about those other things. This thread is about guns.

It is?? I thought it was about people.

massdebater

Sinfonia wrote: »

It is?? I thought it was about people.

It's about gun-related injuries/deaths. The previous poster was going way off on a tangent, talking about smoking, alcohol consumption, starvation etc. I simply suggested they start their own thread on those things instead of dragging this one off-topic.

ronan45

Sooo is there gonna be a thread EVERYTIME takes out their side piece and does a turkey shoot :rolleyes:

up for anything

ronan45 wrote: »

Sooo is there gonna be a thread EVERYTIME takes out their side piece and does a turkey shoot :rolleyes:

Because threads are like conversations in real life the answer to your question is most likely yes. People speak about all sorts of things and just because they are a regular occurrence it doesn't mean they won't get mentioned.

Sinfonia

massdebater wrote: »

It's about gun-related injuries/deaths. The previous poster was going way off on a tangent, talking about smoking, alcohol consumption, starvation etc. I simply suggested they start their own thread on those things instead of dragging this one off-topic.

My point was that this thread/story is about a f*ck-of-a-lot more than just guns, and to focus specifically on that one aspect of it is - as always - ridiculous.

CiDeRmAn

It says something when people become dismissive of the attempted murder of 12 people.
And it says something about a country that is more protective of its constitution and the right to bear arms than those citizens who are suffering because of it.

CiDeRmAn

Sinfonia wrote: »

My point was that this thread/story is about a f*ck-of-a-lot more than just guns, and to focus specifically on that one aspect of it is - as always - ridiculous.

The story is about 12 people who were indiscriminatedly shot in an American neighbourhood, including a child.
I reckon a focus on gun ownership and crime, in light of another recent shooting spree is perfectly reasonable.
To divert off the op by taking of all the other things killing people in the world is just trolling.

Sinfonia

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

The story is about 12 people who were indiscriminatedly shot in an American neighbourhood, including a child.
I reckon a focus on gun ownership and crime, in light of another recent shooting spree is perfectly reasonable.
To divert off the op by taking of all the other things killing people in the world is just trolling.

I'm not saying that seanie_c was right to immediately jump in and (sort of) defend guns either.
But - as can be seen in the Washington shootings thread - the conversation has squarely revolved around guns, with not much talk of other factors.

In other words, a post about a stabbing wouldn't result in a thread about knives, but a post about a shooting seems to always result in a thread about guns.

Overflow

dobman88 wrote: »

So it is okay for someone to shoot people, just don't kill them??? :rolleyes:

WHAT...Where the hell did you pull that from, clearly your arse !

CiDeRmAn

Sinfonia wrote: »

In other words, a post about a stabbing wouldn't result in a thread about knives, but a post about a shooting seems to always result in a thread about guns.

Actually, if I saw an article detailing murders committed by a wielder of knives I'd probably expect a focus on the availability of certain kinds of knives, principally hunting knives, to the under age, in fact I seem to remember that exact thing coming up after a murder a number of years ago.

Yes, a discussion on a mass shooting has far more things to debate than just the gun question, but in the US, coming hot on the heels of another mass shooting, it's not unexpected for the spotlight to be shone on this one feature.
There are questions about the value of life, the society that accepts the injury of so many of its citizens of a certain economic class and so on.

CiDeRmAn

Overflow wrote: »

WHAT...Where the hell did you pull that from, clearly your arse !

Yeah, I was wondering where that was pulled from

seanie_c

CiDeRmAn wrote:

It's about gun-related injuries/deaths. The previous poster was going way off on a tangent, talking about smoking, alcohol consumption, starvation etc. I simply suggested they start their own thread on those things instead of dragging this one off-topic.

Ah okay, so what's your solution to the problem then?
Ban guns?

It's idealistic but impractical to enforce.

Gangs acquire guns from the shadow economy, how would that be dealt with?

Chicago police were making no information about what happened public, except to say that the shooting appeared to be gang-related.

You can buy any kind of guns in America if you have the money and know the right people.

Anyone that indiscriminately fires a gun on people obviously has a screw lose and shouldn't be walking around freely in the first place.

Maybe they should have sent the man to Iraq or Afghanistan?
Then he'd return a hero and awarded medals for bravery, killing women and children over there instead...

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

It says something when people become dismissive of the attempted murder of 12 people.
And it says something about a country that is more protective of its constitution and the right to bear arms than those citizens who are suffering because of it.

Spare me your disingenuous concern for human life when an average of 25,000 people around the world die every day from starvation.

Any needless loss of life is terrible but you imply gun related deaths are more important...how strange.

If you're that concerned about Americans dying from guns, why not join a Gun Control Advocacy group?

Penny Dreadful

seanie_c wrote: »

Ah okay, so what's your solution to the problem then?
Ban guns?

It's idealistic but impractical to enforce.

Gangs acquire guns from the shadow economy, how would that be dealt with?



You can buy any kind of guns in America if you have the money and know the right people.

Anyone that indiscriminately fires a gun on people obviously has a screw lose and shouldn't be walking around freely in the first place.

Maybe they should have sent the man to Iraq or Afghanistan?
Then he'd return a hero and awarded medals for bravery, killing women and children over there instead...



Spare me your disingenuous concern for human life when an average of 25,000 people around the world die every day from starvation.


Any needless loss of life is terrible but you imply gun related deaths are more important...how strange.If you're that concerned about Americans dying from guns, why not join a Gun Control Advocacy group?

The loss of life through needless starvation is shocking and the attitude towards the people who suffer it is too.
The gun related deaths in the USA hit home/ hit harder for a few reasons. Some of these I think are that people can identify more readily with people in the USA rather than Senegal and so have empathy more easily/readily. Also it is puzzling to me (and I imagine other Irish people) how and why people in America can guns, so many guns, and despite the horrific shootings in schools, playgrounds, etc people still won't give them or even some of them up.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

I blame GTA V

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but it's nothing like the way people die in car accidents and refuse to give up their cars, or drown in swimming pools and refuse to make pools illegal, or so many people have peanut allergies but peanuts are still allowed in our stores

****ing americans

CiDeRmAn

seanie_c wrote: »

Ah okay, so what's your solution to the problem then?
Ban guns?

It's idealistic but impractical to enforce.

Gangs acquire guns from the shadow economy, how would that be dealt with?

Don't over simplify.
The issue of an armed populace is implicit in the American constitution, so the rot is there.
The idea that a common group, be it on a family level or that of a community, should deal with threat by arming itself is foolish.
European populations don't require a gun in a cabinet to sleep well at night.
Armed gangs?
We have people committing common crimes and arming themselves to do it, at least in the American example.
It's a vicious circle, of ever more weaponised people, those who would use guns to defend themselves and those who use guns to take what's not theirs.

You can buy any kind of guns in America if you have the money and know the right people.

What the hell has that got to do with anything,
you can buy a gun here if you know the "right kind of people"
But here crime involving guns is relatively low, and deaths as result of gun crime is also very low.
the position of Ireland and firearms, including statistics on gun crime

Anyone that indiscriminately fires a gun on people obviously has a screw lose and shouldn't be walking around freely in the first place.

True, but how do you determine if someone is so mentally unhinged that a mass shooting is a solution to their problem?
How, if your society puts few demands on the vendor of guns, are you to prohibit the sale of weapons to those kinds of people without infringing on the constitutional rights of them also?

Maybe they should have sent the man to Iraq or Afghanistan?
Then he'd return a hero and awarded medals for bravery, killing women and children over there instead...

And now you've gone off on one.
No one is seriously considering a trained army, operating under a government mandate, are the equivalent of a man opening fire on a group of unarmed civilians in domestic territory?
Sure, we have seen some terrible acts committed by armed forces overseas, I'm not an apologist for them, and these people must be seen to face justice, but, given the 12 year long nature of the engagement, we have seen much care in preventing civilian casualties while the troops themselves are put in danger.
The rights and wrongs of the US and the Coalition of the Willing and the United Nations Security Council, their presence in Afghanistan in the first place, and the rest, are really not the purpose of this thread.
You were being deliberately inflammatory in even bringing it up.

Spare me your disingenuous concern for human life when an average of 25,000 people around the world die every day from starvation.

Any needless loss of life is terrible but you imply gun related deaths are more important...how strange.

And now you are reading some post but obviously not mine.
You don't know me.
You don't know what my feelings on the numbers of people dying world wide from preventable diseases are, people dying from dirty water, from hunger and so on.
I made it clear that my comments were on the OP, which was the gun fire on a random group of people resulting in many serious injuries, including that of a child.
I didn't raise the matter, someone else did, the OP, and I simply commented on it.
If you want a discussion of the greater issue of all preventable deaths, or deal with it topic by topic, fire away, could be a good debate there, but spare me this utter nonsense assuming I feel gun related deaths are more important, what utter drivel.

If you're that concerned about Americans dying from guns, why not join a Gun Control Advocacy group?

Why would I?
I'm not an American citizen.
If I was I'm sure I would join such a group, but I'm not.
I'm an Irish citizen and this is my home, so I have no need to worry as, and it's pointed out in the link above, my home country has tight gun control laws and a mature approach to gun ownership and their legitimate use.

But as a reader of the news and with an interest in history I would of course have an opinion on the subject of guns, anyone in fact is entitled to have an opinion on anything.

It is such a pity then that some people seek to undermine threads to inflict their ill-informed opinions on everyone else.

CiDeRmAn

Apologies to the mod for the above post, I was responding to some blatant flaming and personal abuse, but the shooting of 12 innocents in Chicago remains tragic and the increase in Chicago guncrime a worrying feature for the cities nearly 3 million population.

Bog Standard User

guns dont kill people... its the idiots that are using them that do.

GalwayGuy2

And it says something about a country that is more protective of its constitution and the right to bear arms than those citizens who are suffering because of it.

...Abortion?

Oh bringing the two most controversial issues in after hours together.

This will sound awful, but I hope it's gang related. I actually find it more worrying where a person goes on a killing spree.

Fukuyama

This won't change a thing in the US.

They love their guns so much they'll live in fear of others owning them.

A firearm belongs in the hand of two kinds of people. Trained professionals and justified revolutionaries.

There is simply no need for a gun among average, urban citizens.

Amerika

And yet Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws??? Go figure!!! Gang activity using illegally obtained guns is the best bet. Perhaps Chicago should look harder at what has worked well in New York City with "stop and frisk."

CiDeRmAn

Dean0088 wrote: »

This won't change a thing in the US.

They love their guns so much they'll live in fear of others owning them.

A firearm belongs in the hand of two kinds of people. Trained professionals and justified revolutionaries.

There is simply no need for a gun among average, urban citizens.

And yet we have the Canadian experience to contrast with that of the US.
Yes, they have gun crime, they have also, unfortunately, have had mass shootings of their own, but they appear to be thankfully few Spree_shootings_in_Canada
Canada is only across the border from the US, they share language and land mass yet gun ownership in the US is 94.3 per 100 people while in Canada it's 30.8 guns per 100 of the population.
Ireland is in at 8.6 guns per 100 people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Rented Mule

pale blue dot cotton wrote: »

Where they predominantly white or black? White and this will be an 'awful tragedy'. Black and it'll be forgotten before Monday.

Harsh facts of crime in Chicago.

It's a harsh fact because it is so common in the 'black' neighborhoods. The funny thing is that you don't see the media whores (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) running to these neighborhoods to draw attention to shootings/murders because they are being done by 'black people'.

I know Cornell Square Park very well. I grew up less than 10 minutes from there. Once the neighborhood 'changed', it wasn't worth the effort going there, just like the majority (and I do mean majority)of other Chicago Park District parks. This is coming from someone who worked in the CPD for ten years.

Rented Mule

Amerika wrote: »

And yet Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws??? Go figure!!! Gang activity using illegally obtained guns is the best bet. Perhaps Chicago should look harder at what has worked well in New York City with "stop and frisk."

These laws are in the process of being changed. The Illinois legislature has been forced by the appellate courts to allow 'conceal carry' in the State of Illinois. As far as I know, they are still in the process of getting the licensing process together.

Marcus Halberstram

Nothing new for Chicago. On the 4th of July weekend past, 72 people were shot in Chicago.

Not a blip in the media about it.


Just google "People shot in Chicago this weekend" and look at the results.

Unbelievable.

crockholm

Good ol'south and westside Chicago-how I miss you. Truth is,as long as Rahm and the CPD keep the thugs out of downtown and in their own neighbourhoods,I don't really care what they do.I'm even surprised this shooting made the news, worse has happened in the city(fatalities wise) already this year-see Jonylah Watkins for instance.Mindless.

Amerika

Rented Mule wrote: »

These laws are in the process of being changed. The Illinois legislature has been forced by the appellate courts to allow 'conceal carry' in the State of Illinois. As far as I know, they are still in the process of getting the licensing process together.

It will be interesting to see what happens when it does... perhaps we will see the rate in the murder capital of the US go down. But I doubt there will be any significant change, excpet that the law abiding innocents will have a way to protect themselves, if Chicago continues to allow rampant gang activity to run amok.

StinkyMunkey

And the cycle continues.

Its a pity that people are so against reforming the gun laws in the states, i think a happy medium could be found so everyone is happy (and no i dont know what that happy medium is, but then again i dont live in a country with a gun culture).

crockholm

Rented Mule wrote: »

It's a harsh fact because it is so common in the 'black' neighborhoods. The funny thing is that you don't see the media whores (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) running to these neighborhoods to draw attention to shootings/murders because they are being done by 'black people'.

I know Cornell Square Park very well. I grew up less than 10 minutes from there. Once the neighborhood 'changed', it wasn't worth the effort going there, just like the majority (and I do mean majority)of other Chicago Park District parks. This is coming from someone who worked in the CPD for ten years.

I think Jesse's hands might be full looking after junior at the moment;):D

Rented Mule

crockholm wrote: »

Good ol'south and westside Chicago-how I miss you. Truth is,as long as Rahm and the CPD keep the thugs out of downtown and in their own neighbourhoods,I don't really care what they do.I'm even surprised this shooting made the news, worse has happened in the city(fatalities wise) already this year-see Jonylah Watkins for instance.Mindless.

The problem is that they have been covering the crimes committed on the Mag Mile for a decade now. There are roaming bands of ghetto rats that have been robbing mobile phones for years. It has only started making the news.

The other thing that is not reported are the 'flash mobs' of these same ghetto rats robbing the stores on Michigan Avenue. Security guards are tazered and then it's a mad frenzy to grab everything and get back to the subway/el. Not a word in the media about it.

Rented Mule

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

And the cycle continues.

Its a pity that people are so against reforming the gun laws in the states, i think a happy medium could be found so everyone is happy (and no i dont know what that happy medium is, but then again i dont live in a country with a gun culture).

Do you think that the person who did this shooting acquired the gun legally ? Do you think that the person who did this shooting cares about gun reform ?

There are over 223 million guns in the United States. You're never going to get them off of the streets. You'd be facing a full on revolution if you tried to take guns off of law abiding citizens.

crockholm

Rented Mule wrote: »

The problem is that they have been covering the crimes committed on the Mag Mile for a decade now. There are roaming bands of ghetto rats that have been robbing mobile phones for years. It has only started making the news.

The other thing that is not reported are the 'flash mobs' of these same ghetto rats robbing the stores on Michigan Avenue. Security guards are tazered and then it's a mad frenzy to grab everything and get back to the subway/el. Not a word in the media about it.

Well aware of it,anything near the red line is a target.It really is a sad state when you check "Flash mob" from New York and Chicago,one is performance art and the other is tourists robbed of their phones and cash.

It is a problem for Rahm alright.But hopefully those rats will be chalked up in Englewood sooner rather than later.

Sunglasses Ron

Amerika wrote: »

And yet Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws??? Go figure!!! Gang activity using illegally obtained guns is the best bet. Perhaps Chicago should look harder at what has worked well in New York City with "stop and frisk."

Aren't most gun crimes committed with formerly legally held handguns obtained during burglaries?

Work that one out "Amerika" :pac: (the fact you likely voted for Romney and the Palin VP ticket makes me...well, you know)

StinkyMunkey

Rented Mule wrote: »

Do you think that the person who did this shooting acquired the gun legally ? Do you think that the person who did this shooting cares about gun reform ?

There are over 223 million guns in the United States. You're never going to get them off of the streets. You'd be facing a full on revolution if you tried to take guns off of law abiding citizens.

Fact is there was another senseless mass shooting. Ask yourself, if there was stricter gun controls, could that person have gotten a gun as easily, or for that fact would there be as many black market guns out there.

Who said anything about taking guns off anyone?? Are you talking about banning guns? And thats a very good point, yes the general populace would rather wage war or revolution on the authorities if they tried to take away their precious right to have an arsenal in their homes.

Amerika

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Aren't most gun crimes committed with formerly legally held handguns obtained during burglaries?

Work that one out "Amerika" :pac:

Well, estimates are there are about 300 million guns in America. Do you propose ignoring the US Constitution and confiscating all the guns for the good of the people? With that type of thinking next you’ll be calling for the exportation of blacks and hispanics, as when you take them out of the equation the US would be on par with Belgium on gun deaths… for the good of the people of course.

Better law enforcement on existing laws, targeting gang activity with a vengeance, and not putting criminals with extensive rap sheets back on the streets in record breaking times might be the better path.

(the fact you likely voted for Romney and the Palin VP ticket makes me...well, you know)

... Hopeful???

Sunglasses Ron

Amerika wrote: »

Well, estimates are there are about 300 million guns in America. Do you propose ignoring the US Constitution and confiscating all the guns for the good of the people?

Apart from hunting weapons, yes, within 40 years of passing such a law the US might be a more rational society.

With that type of thinking next you’ll be calling for the exportation of blacks and hispanics, as when you take them out of the equation the US would be on par with Belgium on gun deaths… for the good of the people of course.

Ireland has one of the biggest gun problems in Europe. The vast majority of which involve a small amount of smuggled weapons from the Balkans. If every second burglary in Ireland yielded a cache of handguns do you reckon we might have a higher rate of gun crime? For all this talk of the right to personal protection relatively few burglars seem to regularly get killed in the US.

Witcher

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Apart from hunting weapons, yes, within 40 years of passing such a law the US might be a more rational society.

Define 'hunting weapon'.

theGEM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Ireland has one of the biggest gun problems in Europe. The vast majority of which involve a small amount of smuggled weapons from the Balkans. If every second burglary in Ireland yielded a cache of handguns do you reckon we might have a higher rate of gun crime? For all this talk of the right to personal protection relatively few burglars seem to regularly get killed in the US.

c. 260 every year

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

crockholm

I used to live in the southside of Chicago,a community area(one of 77 in Chicago city) called Mount Greenwood.It is the last of the blue-collar Irish/white neighbourhoods in the south side(cabbagetown being no collar). The place is top heavy with guns,partly due to many police,firemen and armed forces personnel in the area.NRA signs and bumper stickers are plentiful.
Yet looking at records,starting on Jan 1st 2007 to today, there have been 0 homicides in that community area. What Irish town of 20,000 inhabitants has had 0 homicides over the same period?

19543261

You know the executive branches priority will never be to reduce any death in the states.

This is a major thorn in their side. How can American politicians actually feign about caring about this gun thing all the while doing absolutely nothing? A true challenge, it must be.