Protein Absorption-moved from OT thread

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 12:42PM #1

The human body is only capable of digesting 7 grams of protein per hour fact

Will Heffernan · 17-09-2013 12:46PM

JJayoo wrote: »

The human body is only capable of digesting 7 grams of protein per hour fact

I've read that a lot on the internet so it must be true. At least now when I argue it I will be able to quote this research and send them a link to your post.

thegreatiam · 17-09-2013 12:51PM

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-how-much-protein-can-you-absorb-and-use-from-one-meal/#axzz2f9KsM2Fw

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 12:58PM

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I've read that a lot on the internet so it must be true. At least now when I argue it I will be able to quote this research and send them a link to your post.

I heard it this morning on Pat kenny's radio show which has one of the highest audiences on Irish radio. So it has to be true.

runawaybishop · 17-09-2013 01:01PM

JJayoo wrote: »

I heard it this morning on Pat kenny's radio show which has one of the highest audiences on Irish radio. So it has to be true.

Will has been away from Ireland for a while and is probably unaware of Pat Kennys' new venture into the world of competitive body building.

Will Heffernan · 17-09-2013 01:02PM

JJayoo wrote: »

I heard it this morning on Pat kenny's radio show which has one of the highest audiences on Irish radio. So it has to be true.

Seems pretty sound. If some person was on this Pat Kenny show you speak of and they were talking all sorts of rubbish and misleading people are other people allowed to call in and point out the fact? I would of done that if I was there...RTE would probably just shut the whole thing down though

Will Heffernan · 17-09-2013 01:04PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

Will has been away from Ireland for a while and is probably unaware of Pat Kennys' new venture into the world of competitive body building.

Probably just took it up last year and is now Mr Olympia. That happens heaps in Ireland now. It is all about overnight success and instant awesomeness.

runawaybishop · 17-09-2013 01:05PM

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Probably just took it up last year and is now Mr Olympia. That happens heaps in Ireland now. It is all about overnight success and instant awesomeness.

You should see his before and after pics on his blog.

Will Heffernan · 17-09-2013 01:14PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

You should see his before and after pics on his blog.

Don't be a hater.

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 01:16PM

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Seems pretty sound. If some person was on this Pat Kenny show you speak of and they were talking all sorts of rubbish and misleading people are other people allowed to call in and point out the fact? I would of done that if I was there...RTE would probably just shut the whole thing down though

This is pretty much my point, no one ever contradicts this rubbish.

Will Heffernan · 17-09-2013 01:18PM

JJayoo wrote: »

This is pretty much my point, no one ever contradicts this rubbish.

That sort of censorship happens a lot in Ireland in fairness.

amazingemmet · 17-09-2013 01:21PM

JJayoo wrote: »

This is pretty much my point, no one ever contradicts this rubbish.

Thing is if you called up and gave a perfectly backed up arguement no one would believe you and you'd probably be accused of being a creatine dealer.

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 01:21PM

But it's not censorship, it's just no one's arsed to make a counter argument.

Will Heffernan · 17-09-2013 01:25PM

amazingemmet wrote: »

Thing is if you called up and gave a perfectly backed up arguement no one would believe you and you'd probably be accused of being a creatine dealer.

That's true.

You could be expressing the truth and put across a balanced and well constructed argument. Even if no one was putting up a counter argument or refuting the facts that were self evident....even when the indefensible wasn't even attempting to be defended....a lot of the time the powers that be either shut down the debate or it is just easier for the masses just to go along with the status quo.

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 01:50PM

So instead of trying to refute poor information why not offer basic information to the general public. Most national newspapers would be happy to publish a 500 word article with each of their newspapers, well as long as they were getting it for free. Build up a series of basic articles and any exercises described could be demonstrated on an accompanying youtube channel.

Maybe boards.ie would contribute. Pick a few registered users to write basic articles and boards would get a bit of publicity by being mentioned in a widely circulated newspaper.

kevpants · 17-09-2013 04:09PM

JJayoo wrote: »

I heard it this morning on Pat kenny's radio show which has one of the highest audiences on Irish radio. So it has to be true.

I heard it too and the lady in question was pretty well balanced I have to say. Of course the first thought I had was that someone from the Internet would hear that silly microbiologist and come here to make an example of them because lol gainz YOLO.

She made the following points which are all debatable but i tended to agree on most of them.

- Isotonic drinks do exactly what they say, re-hydrate immediately but there is no need for them inside the first 90 mins (ish) of exercise and the majority of these drinks have far too many calories per serving for the standard casual gym goer or five a side player.

- Protein requirements way overstated by recovery drink manufacturers. 70g a day enough for most people. We can only absorb roughly 7g per hour in her view and that the way the body processes excess protein puts increased load on the kidneys. Roughly 20% of people, according to X University research, have a predisposition towards or increased risk of kidney disease. In her view placing this increased load on your kidneys at a young age not knowing if you are predisposed to kidney faiure is not wise.

- Chocolate milk cheapest way of hitting the macros associated with recovery.

I massively agree on the protein requirements thing. I don't know enough to prove you don't need 2xBW to push your swole profile over the gainz precipice but I don't buy it.

TL:DR So called experts, pfffft, gainz4life, #whatsinyourstackbrah

Brian? · 17-09-2013 04:19PM

I'd have to agree with Señor Pants.

I only heard the first few minutes, but what she said held up well. Her point on protein supplements was that most people don't need them, she's right. What people need when trying to add muscle is more food. Her exact words were: "you need more calories to add muscle". Nothing wrong with that.

She then went on to champion chocolate milk over post workout supplements, again I agree. Most post workout supplements are whey and fancy sugar. Completely over priced. Chocolate milk had a 4:1 carb to protein ratio, near enough, which is what most PWO shakes have.

I do have issues with the 7g thing and the kidney harm thing, as far as I'm aware there's no proof of either.

kevpants · 17-09-2013 04:30PM

Brian? wrote: »

I do have issues with the 7g thing and the kidney harm thing, as far as I'm aware there's no proof of either.

I don't think there's massive proof anyway that's for sure.

But bear in mind on the 7g an hour thing she never said the remaining protein would be immediately excreted, just that it's absorbed slowly so a massive dose of 80g of protein in a 250ml drink is probably going to result in an excess.

The kidney thing is mentioned enough by old school bodybuilders and some scientists to think it's worth bearing in mind. Clearly it's not gospel but the thing about kidneys is you get one set, they don't recover. You mess them up and it's dialysis. There is proof that the kidneys have to work harder to excrete excess protein AFAIK.

Also bear in mind the whole thing was spoken from the point of view of parents worrying about their 13 or 14 year old kids. When you look at it from that perspective I think it's totally reasonable to raise these points. Caffeine got an honourable mention in there too as it appears in a lot of these drinks and the amount kids get needs to be monitored which is also totally reasonable.

I personally wouldn't let my teenager use protein supplements while they were still under my guardianship. I'm probably pretty unique amongst powerlifters from that perspective. I'm also a massive hypocrite who wouldn't let my kids do half the stupid stuff I do.

Zombienosh · 17-09-2013 04:36PM

I fully support Chocolate milk and or Strawberry milk.

amazingemmet · 17-09-2013 04:38PM

kevpants wrote: »

I massively agree on the protein requirements thing. I don't know enough to prove you don't need 2xBW to push your swole profile over the gainz precipice but I don't buy it.

I won't try and change your mind but get a copy of "the protein book" by lyle mcdonald and it'll give you all the info you need to make a decision one way or another.

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 04:43PM

kevpants wrote: »

I heard it too and the lady in question was pretty well balanced I have to say. Of course the first thought I had was that someone from the Internet would hear that silly microbiologist and come here to make an example of them because lol gainz YOLO.

She made the following points which are all debatable but i tended to agree on most of them.

- Isotonic drinks do exactly what they say, re-hydrate immediately but there is no need for them inside the first 90 mins (ish) of exercise and the majority of these drinks have far too many calories per serving for the standard casual gym goer or five a side player.

- Protein requirements way overstated by recovery drink manufacturers. 70g a day enough for most people. We can only absorb roughly 7g per hour in her view and that the way the body processes excess protein puts increased load on the kidneys. Roughly 20% of people, according to X University research, have a predisposition towards or increased risk of kidney disease. In her view placing this increased load on your kidneys at a young age not knowing if you are predisposed to kidney faiure is not wise.

- Chocolate milk cheapest way of hitting the macros associated with recovery.

I massively agree on the protein requirements thing. I don't know enough to prove you don't need 2xBW to push your swole profile over the gainz precipice but I don't buy it.

TL:DR So called experts, pfffft, gainz4life, #whatsinyourstackbrah

What are you trying to say? because she stated one thing that is true it cancels out a false statement? is that how it works? :rolleyes:

Her 7g statement, the only part of the interview that was mentioned on this thread, is based on the her belief that the human body can't process more than 160g of protein per day, so divide that day into 24 hours and you get 7g per hour.

So by saying "to add muscle/strength you need to eat extra calories" it makes the above statement true?

kevpants · 17-09-2013 04:55PM

amazingemmet wrote: »

I won't try and change your mind but get a copy of "the protein book" by lyle mcdonald and it'll give you all the info you need to make a decision one way or another.

Cheers. Does he spend much of it calling people "punk-ass bitch" and the like? Find it hard to absorb anything he writes (maybe less than 7g an hour... boom boom!) because I read it in this whiny, overly aggressive American twang. It's unfortunate the guy who appears to be one of the foremost authorities on nutrition also happens to be a facebook troll.

JJayoo wrote: »

What are you trying to say? because she stated one thing that is true it cancels out a false statement? is that how it works? :rolleyes:

Her 7g statement, the only part of the interview that was mentioned on this thread, is based on the her belief that the human body can't process more than 160g of protein per day, so divide that day into 24 hours and you get 7g per hour.

So by saying "to add muscle/strength you need to eat extra calories" it makes the above statement true?

What? Sorry my post seems directed at you. It kinds was but only because you happened to be the guy calling out the latest radio interview with a so called expert.

I don't really get the question but I think what you mean is that I'm saying what she said was flawless. I'm not. If you got 5 reputable fitness or nutrition people to talk uninterupted for 20 mins they'd probably all say loads of things I think sound like sense and loads that don't. She said more sensical things than most.

To open up the debate, do you think it's ludicrous to suggest we can only absorb a certain amount of protein per day/per hour or do you just think she's low balled the figure?

I hope I'm not coming across as some kind of self professed expert. I find nutrition quite boring but I feel my disinterested state makes me better able to detect bullshit.

amazingemmet · 17-09-2013 05:03PM

kevpants wrote: »

Cheers. Does he spend much of it calling people "punk-ass bitch" and the like? Find it hard to absorb anything he writes (maybe less than 7g an hour... boom boom!) because I read it in this whiny, overly aggressive American twang. It's unfortunate the guy who appears to be one of the foremost authorities on nutrition also happens to be a facebook troll.

All his books are fine, well written as these types of things go. I recommend them all.

RidleyRider · 17-09-2013 05:07PM

They don't come often enough, but when these types of discussions come they're a brilliant read!

JJayoo · 17-09-2013 05:08PM

kevpants wrote: »

To open up the debate, do you think it's ludicrous to suggest we can only absorb a certain amount of protein per day/per hour or do you just think she's low balled the figure?

I hope I'm not coming across as some kind of self professed expert. I find nutrition quite boring but I feel my disinterested state makes me better able to detect bullshit.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/13240/4141/17th_September_2013_-_The_Pat_Kenny_Show_Part_2

48:11 mark if anyone wants to listen to it.

She gave some good/basic advice but it doesn't detract from her 7g statement.

Maybe the problem is that she doesn't make it clear which portion of the population she is speaking about. She mentions elite athletes/bodybuilders early in her interview but finishes speaking about 13/14 year olds.

But if she believes that a person regardless of age/weight can only absorb 7g per hour then she is way off.

She also said that the average person doesn't need anymore than 70g per day, so does she expect them to divide that 70g into 10 servings throughout the day.

It's just this one point that I found off.

kevpants · 17-09-2013 05:15PM

JJayoo wrote: »

She also said that the average person doesn't need anymore than 70g per day, so does she expect them to divide that 70g into 10 servings throughout the day.

It's just this one point that I found off.

Maths and stuff.

Like I said above she didn't say the 1 hour time scale was a cut off or a countdown timer after which the meal is ejected. The implication is that protein is absorbed slowly. At least I don't think she meant it that way.

The way I understood it was that a meal containing 28g of protein would take roughly 4 hours before all of it was absorbed. You don't have an hour to get all your absorbtion in.

Inspector Coptoor · 17-09-2013 10:45PM

When I'm teaching the chapter on food in 2nd year science, & when I'm teaching a TY module in biology, my mantra for teenagers as a teacher & rugby coach is:
Eat real food
&
Earn your treats.

As 50-70kg teenager, these kids don't need supplements apart from maybe a multi-vit & a fish oil or two.

I give them sample meals, outline overly high carb tendencies & promote eating some protein with every meal as well as bringing carbs to a 40-50% level as posed to 65% plus.

I tell them to eat a bit more on training days & that after training is the perfect time to have a chocolate milky a banana & some chocolate - earn your treats.

I also then get them to design a 5 meal diet for a day when they are training consisting of breakfast, lunch & dinner aswell as pre & post workout/training snack.

They then critically assess each others work & try to assess if the meal is balanced and if it's too low in protein &/or too high in carbs.

I go I to more detail with the TY students.

7g an hour for protein mightn't be that low a figure for a 13/14 year old, I would take issue with that figure for a fully grown 80-110kg man however.

Orla K · 17-09-2013 10:55PM

She also said that any protein over 168g and we just expel it. Don't know where she got that exact figure came from.

Inspector Coptoor · 17-09-2013 10:58PM

Exactly.
For what age person?
What weight?
If we're talking about teenagers?
Are they going through PHV?

Real lack of specific info there

kevpants · 17-09-2013 11:03PM

Orla K wrote: »

She also said that any protein over 168g and we just expel it. Don't know where she got that exact figure came from.

Yeah I don't think it's possible to have a perfect 15 minute interview on supplements that doesn't throw out a few head scratchers but for a show like Pat Kenny's with his listenership I was pretty happy it was so refreshingly free of facepalm moments. I could imagine a similar conversation on Liveline getting completely out of hand for example. As usual Pat had done his research and didn't ask any stupid questions, knew the whey drinks were for recovery, that isotonic drinks were about rehydration. Easier to get decent info across when not being interviewed by a moron.

Inspector Coptoor · 17-09-2013 11:06PM

kevpants wrote: »

Yeah I don't think it's possible to have a perfect 15 minute interview on supplements that doesn't throw out a few head scratchers but for a show like Pat Kenny's with his listenership I was pretty happy it was so refreshingly free of facepalm moments. I could imagine a similar conversation on Liveline getting completely out of hand for example. As usual Pat had done his research and didn't ask any stupid questions, knew the whey drinks were for recovery, that isotonic drinks were about rehydration. Easier to get decent info across when not being interviewed by a moron.

Yeah, you're bang on there Kev.
He may be Pat the Plank, but his analytical mind was honed from his training while doing the PhD in Chem Eng.

He is a good interviewer

Protein Absorption-moved from OT thread

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