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DCM 2013: Mentored Novices Thread......Take 2

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Comments

  • #2042
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    well done shortstuff! love the report. You ran a great race:) How did you find running with the pacers? Did it makes sense to run even paced miles for the whole thing? I'd worry about this for DCM (running uphill and downhill at the very same pace). I'm still on the shelf about running my own race and pacing myself...

    Can't believe there's only a handful of lsrs left! I'm going to really miss this aspect of marathon training after DCM as I love nothing more on a Saturday morning than heading off for a proper long one. I guess there's no point in running any more than a 15 lrs if not training for a marathon. Lots of new targets to think about after dcm:D Exciting times ahead.

    Hope everyones training is going well!


  • #2043
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Ososlo wrote: »
    I'd worry about this for DCM (running uphill and downhill at the very same pace). I'm still on the shelf about running my own race and pacing myself...

    I pace a lot of races including DCM and this is a common misconception. I'd definitely slow down a little on uphills and naturally speed up a bit on downhills. Over a marathon distance there is no harm having some miles a little slower than others. As a pacer the last thing I want to go is burn off the pacees on an uphill, key thing is to keep an even effort. Great thing about DCM is that hills are very short, so even slowing a little on the uphills doesn't mean that any particular mile is slower than any other...


  • #2044
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    menoscemo wrote: »
    I pace a lot of races including DCM and this is a common misconception. I'd definitely slow down a little on uphills and naturally speed up a bit on downhills. Over a marathon distance there is no harm having some miles a little slower than others. As a pacer the last thing I want to go is burn off the pacees on an uphill, key thing is to keep an even effort. Great thing about DCM is that hills are very short, so even slowing a little on the uphills doesn't mean that any particular mile is slower than any other...

    appreciate that. Didn't know what way it worked so that kind of changes my mind about it. Thanks!


  • #2045
    patsypantaloni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭patsypantaloni


    Good to know meno, thanks for that. I'm in the same boat as ososlo, am tempted to run with a pacer but have never run with one before so wasn't sure what to expect

    I've been struggling a bit, have a bit of PF in my left foot so I'm trying to manage it as best I can. Did my longest Lsr to date of sixteen miles today, felt really comfortable up to eleven miles but struggled the last five. Feel like it'll stand to me though, I gritted the teeth and ground out the last few miles. Feeling it in the legs now, but as tough as I found it, I could have kept going if I had to (which I will come oct 28!)

    I live in crumlin so planned to do the second half of the marathon route and then home along the canal but got lost in rathgar, I missed the turn for Orwell park and eventually ended up at windy arbour Luas stop! I figured the miles were more important today than the route, so wasn't too bothered, but eventually popped out at the very bottom of clonskeagh road so made my way back up to run "heartbreak hill" as I really wanted to see how bad it was. Found it no bother tbh, it's probably more the fact that it comes at mile 19 that's unpleasant, but for anyone running the marathon who might be worried about it, I think it's important not to build it into something it's not, so fingers crossed we'll be grand!


  • #2046
    SamforMayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭SamforMayo


    Hi I have been reading here for a long time and find all the advice really useful. Hoping to do my second 20 miler this week and like you future guy I find my motivation is lagging, not sure why! I have rotten head cold at the moment and have just returned to work after a year off. This week is supposed to be my longest mileage week of the whole plan, as long as I get my long run done is it ok to carry some over till next week if that makes sense?


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  • #2047
    martyboy48
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭martyboy48


    skeleton_boy wrote: »
    First 20 miler down. Very windy out (got a brier blown into my neck for good measure) there but could be the same on DCM day. Found the final 2-3 miles tough but my legs felt relatively good after. Now to tuck into an enormous Sunday dinner :o

    Ahh, a real annoyance for me the briers.... I understand how you can't cut back some plants/shrubs at certain times of the year, but surely planners/councillors should make sure they are not planted right beside the footpath !!!!!
    shortstuff! wrote: »
    Ok have never done one of these before so bear with me!

    The Prep
    On the usual great advise from C_M, I tested 2miles at my quite optimistic half race pace on Tuesday to get a feel for the pace. It felt tough & I wouldn't have managed a third mile but convinced myself with my planned mini taper I might just pull it off. Got a rub down Tuesday evening, loosened out calves & IT band, ouch! & focused on stretching & foam rolling for the rest of the week... Mini taper madness brought the start of a dreaded cold so dossed myself in lemsip & vitamins -not looking forward to full blown taper madness, may cause vitamin overdose:pac:

    Pre-race
    Up at 7am to have porridge, had slept surprisingly well. Weather was perfect, no wind, dry... Clear sky's so thought it best to bring my water belt in case it got hot. Arrived in athlone at 10:15, parked & registered in 10mins flat! The usual long que for the loo though so only a brief warm up to the car & back to drop off my race top. Found the sign for the 2hr pacer, quick race brief & we were walked the back section of the start line. I was about 5 rows behind the pacers. Didn't realise it would take so long to get gps signal & left it late:( Oh well I still have my pacers... And we're off

    Mile 1
    By the time I crossed the start line I had somehow lost the pacers, and still no gps signal. It's ok though I thought I know what the pace feels like from my Tuesday tester session:) Eventually spotted the pacers about 100meters ahead, it was really congested so decided to just hold the gap & keep an eye on them. Garmin picked up signed about .6mile in- delighted to see I was right in pace! Lapped it when I saw the 1mile marker

    Mile 2-4
    Really congested on the narrow country roads, as runners slowed down ahead of me I tried overtake without exerting too much energy & staying as close to 9min miles as I could. I was comfortable, feeling strong, & slowly creeping up on the pacers. Reached them just before the first water station... Didn't need water here as I had my trusty water belt! Grabbed a gel at mile 4, hadn't intented on using it but everyonelse was so thought why not, had previously used them so wasn't worried. Pacers were great carrying extra gels, water for us pacees.

    Mile 5-9
    Miles were ticking away nicely. I couldnt get over how hot it was, actually got burnt a bit! Picked up a bottle at the second water station, poured a bit over my head & wrists to cool myself down.. Roads stayed narrow with a few turns a minor incline or two. Only part I didn't like was a section with a really bad camber, (Thought it was just me, that and the fact it wasn't obvious at times with the congestion at times made it worse), was terrified of going over my ankle, I didn't though! Still felt good at this stage & confident of holding the pace for the remaining miles. Pacers mentioned that we were ahead of pace, heading for 1:59.

    Mile 10
    On the main road for a mile, first time during the race that I felt I had proper space! The pace started to feel like work somewhere around here though, still right on the pacers tails though, just had to hang on! Nice bit of banter in the group at this stage which past the time but I was silently conserving energy. Felt a little sick here-probably too much water but it past, phew!

    Mile 11-12
    Back on narrow country roads, suddenly found myself drifting behind the pacers, tried not to stress as pace per watch was still ok... Ended up with a gap of 20meters & felt like I was running on my own. Just wanted to get back to them so quickened pace slightly catching them before the 13mile marker:D

    The finish
    Worked hard for the final mile to keep the pace up, the pacer was great here keeping us going. Was great to see the town again, right definitely going to make it under 2hrs. Passed a couple people coming back into the town. Pacer told us to sprint once we got around the corner so that's what I tried to do, past 3 people in the final stretch to the finish line! Clock said 2:00:20 as I finished so wasn't sure if I made it or not! Took an age to get my breath back, but was worth it to see 1:59:20 chip time:D 11seconds short of a 15min PB:D

    Went to Lough Ennell afterwards, standing in the lake for 20mins, So, you're the one standing hip deep in water after every race :):D ..felt fine all of yesterday but regretting not doing a proper cool down, legs in bits today. Also have blisters for the first time:(

    Thanks to the organisers, marshells, pacers- all did a superb job!


  • #2048
    AlsoRan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 50 ✭✭AlsoRan


    Great running shortstuff, you're giving me some hope as we had similar PBs. I'm seriously thinking about trying to keep up with the 2 hour pacers on Saturday. When I've tried before, I just didn't have the legs in me and got annoyed at myself as I couldn't keep up with them. I'll have to see what I'm like on the day. It would be nice to run near a group to while away the miles after so many solo lsrs.

    Interesting reading the comments here as a few of us seem to have had a bit of a dip around now. After last week's tumble, I then got a bad head cold. I have kept running or cross training bar one day, but I've only been able to crawl along, which hasn't done much for my confidence, you know sometimes you feel like you're going one step forwards, two back. I did my lsr early yesterday morning in the wind and it was wearying. I'm hoping a few days rest before Saturday and I'll be ready for the half. Best of luck with everyone's training.


  • #2049
    ooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭ooter


    digger2d2 wrote: »
    I see a lot of talk about McMillan calculators on here. If it's your first marathon then be conservative..... Just remember that there's a big difference between a 10 miler or HM and a 26.1 - You will only ever have one first marathon but lots of others for better times/pb's

    What's the general rule of thumb with mcmillan and first time marathon runners,if you run say 1:45 in the HM next Saturday what time should you be realistically aiming for in DCM?


  • #2050
    jmcc99_98
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭jmcc99_98


    Athlone HM was an excellent race, the organisation was superb. There was virtually no queue for registration and all else seemed to go seamlessly.

    My previous PB for half marathon was 1:56 is Connemara so had decided I would try to breach the 1:50 mark for this flatter surface. I went off very quick and with each mile I felt I was getting stronger, my mile times were dropping all the way up to 7miles. Including a few miles around the 7:40 mark and all the rest at around 8:00 - 8:15. I thought this was fine as I was feeling strong and thought that the time I had made up would allow me compensate near the end if I slowed up.

    I slowed up in the last two miles spectacularly - around the 8:40 mark. I didnt feel particularly slow but my garmin was telling me different. I also think that seeing the slowing time added to my feeling of tiredness because I found the last mile incredibly difficult. Usually when I see the finish line I can muster up a burst of energy but even that wasnt possible.

    I finished just over 1:49 (Whoop Whoop, over 7 minutes off my PB) but I felt disappointed with my poor "strategy" and it was a valuable lesson in consistent pacing.

    Anyway I am still delighted and barring injury the hope of a sub 4hr for DCM is not looking unrealistic.

    The race itself was excellent - great marshalling, plenty of waterstops (Great o be given sports bottles instead of cups) and the local residents were very supportive. The surface was a bit rough at times and I found myself concentrating on my footing more than on my actual running if that makes sense. But it certainly wasnt enough to take away from the race.

    Also the Erdinger "Beer" at the end was lovely and went down a treat. I managed to do a 3 mile warm down about 20 minutes later so was happy to have gotten that under my belt too.

    I think that the Athlone HM is going to be a stayer and go from strength to strength. The organisers, in my opinion need to change very very little, if anything at all.

    Well done to all of us one here that ran it also.

    Oh and Sunburn!! I got sunburn in middle of September!


  • #2051
    KillianByrne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭KillianByrne


    If anyone is wondering about the experience of running with a pacer, I wouldnt be too concerned. Pacers bring much more to a race than just keeping the runners speed up - they create a great atmosphere, many will carry extra water for you, they're great for a chat and most of all, their experience is something you cant buy, their knowledge of a course will provide novices with valuable assistance.

    While I finished 15minutes behind them, MarthaStew, Kurt (I think) & the other lad I cant remember his name who paced 4.15 in last years DCM dragged my sorry ass most of the way around the course and I couldn't thank them enough. When your spirits are flagging, they will take notice and provide really valuable help.


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  • #2052
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    Ososlo wrote: »
    well done shortstuff! love the report. You ran a great race:) How did you find running with the pacers? Did it makes sense to run even paced miles for the whole thing? I'd worry about this for DCM (running uphill and downhill at the very same pace). I'm still on the shelf about running my own race and pacing myself...
    KillianByrne wrote: »
    If anyone is wondering about the experience of running with a pacer, I wouldnt be too concerned. Pacers bring much more to a race than just keeping the runners speed up - they create a great atmosphere, many will carry extra water for you, they're great for a chat and most of all, their experience is something you cant buy, their knowledge of a course will provide novices with valuable assistance.

    While I finished 15minutes behind them, MarthaStew, Kurt (I think) & the other lad I cant remember his name who paced 4.15 in last years DCM dragged my sorry ass most of the way around the course and I couldn't thank them enough. When your spirits are flagging, they will take notice and provide really valuable help.

    I agree Pacers add alot more to a race than you might think. The only downside is that it'll always be more crowded around them so if you like your space it could take getting use to. If your considering running with a pacer for DCM maybe try run with one for the half mara this weekend if theres one around your time? At least youll know then if your comfortable following someonelses race plan, running with a large group etc.

    Ill definately follow one for DCM, havent fully decided whether to follow to 4:20 pacers & try to hold on or 4:30 & speed up for the last couple miles if the legs allow... decisions decisions!!


  • #2053
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    ooter wrote: »
    What's the general rule of thumb with mcmillan and first time marathon runners,if you run say 1:45 in the HM next Saturday what time should you be realistically aiming for in DCM?

    I think the rule is double your half time & add 10% so that would give 4:09 based on 1:45 half


  • #2054
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    shortstuff! wrote: »
    I think the rule is double your half time & add 10% so that would give 4:09 based on 1:45 half

    105 x 2= 210 x 1.1 = 231 (3hrs 51minutes).

    This rule of thumb may be very optimistic or in fact very pessimistic. It totally depends on the individual runner and their strenghts and weaknesses. That said most runners (even novices) who can run a 1:45 half should break 4hrs with the right amount of training and long runs done.


  • #2055
    jmcc99_98
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭jmcc99_98


    shortstuff! wrote: »
    I think the rule is double your half time & add 10% so that would give 4:09 based on 1:45 half


    Would that not give you a time of 3:51?

    Double 1:45 is 3:30, and ten percent of that would be 21 mins? so 3:30 + 21mins = 3:51?

    Are my maths all wrong here?


    EDIT: Sorry - already been answered


  • #2056
    crisco10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,357 ✭✭✭crisco10


    Just a quick word to say well done all! and hope all injuries clear up or stay away! Been training "incognito" (i.e. not telling anyone) since June for DCM, then just as I admit it to my gf, I get injured at the Frank Duffy! Only been allowed to cycle for the last 3 weeks. :-(

    At this stage, if I do enter (a decision i will need to make soon!), it will be a "just finish" effort and won't be targetting a time aggressively or anything. But hopefully the ITB clears up so I can at least do it and put the first marathon in the bank.

    This thread is keeping me hopeful and entertained in my cross training frustration, thanks guys!

    PS: Cycling, although more gentle on the knees, is soooooooo boring!


  • #2057
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    shortstuff! wrote: »
    I agree Pacers add alot more to a race than you might think. The only downside is that it'll always be more crowded around them so if you like your space it could take getting use to. If your considering running with a pacer for DCM maybe try run with one for the half mara this weekend if theres one around your time? At least youll know then if your comfortable following someonelses race plan, running with a large group etc.

    Ill definately follow one for DCM, havent fully decided whether to follow to 4:20 pacers & try to hold on or 4:30 & speed up for the last couple miles if the legs allow... decisions decisions!!
    Thanks shortstuff! No there's no suitable group for me to follow for the half as I'll be aiming for a time between pace groups. I'll think about it further for DCM but am veering towards following a pacing group now due to what's been said above by pacers and pacees. cheers!


  • #2058
    dcorcaigh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭dcorcaigh


    crisco10 wrote: »
    PS: Cycling, although more gentle on the knees, is soooooooo boring!

    couldnt agree more :D


  • #2059
    fruit pastille
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭fruit pastille


    Well done to those who completed the Athlone HM at the weekend. Shortstuff - great race report.

    5 miles yesterday felt like 50 miles - legs tired after long run on Friday. Was supposed to be doing hill training tonight but can't shake this head cold so decided to just have the night off. Feel guilty. Going to take it easy enough this week as I want fresh legs for Saturday.


  • #2060
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    menoscemo wrote: »
    105 x 2= 210 x 1.1 = 231 (3hrs 51minutes).

    This rule of thumb may be very optimistic or in fact very pessimistic. It totally depends on the individual runner and their strenghts and weaknesses. That said most runners (even novices) who can run a 1:45 half should break 4hrs with the right amount of training and long runs done.

    Oops! Sorry & to think I work with numbers!!


  • #2061
    donnacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭donnacha


    If I make it to DCM then I'm looking forward to wearing my boards singlet :)

    got your orders in folks...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86558290

    :)


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  • #2062
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    donnacha wrote: »
    If I make it to DCM then I'm looking forward to wearing my boards singlet :)

    got your orders in folks...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86558290

    :)
    Brilliant thanks for he heads up!! My custom t shirt arrived yesterday, love it!! "Boards DCM Novice" on the back so you guys have no excuse not to say hello if you happen to be behind me - slim chance with all the speedsters around here ha:D Can wear the boards one to the pub:)

    Have a really bad cold since Sunday so won't be running tonight just in case I make it worse:( Don't want to miss/screw up this weekends 20miler. So annoying as I had only missed about 2miles of training up until the half at the weekend!


  • #2063
    rob w
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭rob w


    Just getting a chance to catch up with this thread now!

    Well done to short stuff and jmcc99_98...... That's amazing to be able to knock such a sizeable chunk off your HM pb's. Inspiring stuff, as I'm hoping to follow in your footsteps and do the same myself in Dublin this weekend! Think I'll be doing athlone instead of Dublin next year though, it sounds like a brilliant race.

    A few people talking of lack of motivation in here at the moment. It's getting tougher now alright, feel the same way myself sometimes, but just got to keep the ultimate goal of DCM at the forefront of our mind, Try and make it to a group LSR if you can too, great boost for motivation if your used to training solo!!

     We're almost over the peak now anyway and then an easy downhill to the start line! ;) 

    So who's up for Dublin HM at the weekend, there's a few of us in here I think isn't there?


  • #2064
    quinlivan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭quinlivan


    Quick Question: I have a wedding Friday & a local 8K run on Sunday so don't think I'll get a chance to squeeze in my 20miler...

    Can I break it into 2 smaller runs? Or should I swop it with next weekend?


  • #2065
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Apart from some tightness in my achilles, I feel great after the 20-miler. No major stiffness in my muscles and no real niggles. Surprisingly, I feel really good.

    Now I still haven't registered for the DCM. I was hoping to get two 19-20 mile runs before completely committing.

    There's no danger of it selling out is there?


  • #2066
    scriba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 875 ✭✭✭scriba


    quinlivan wrote: »
    Quick Question: I have a wedding Friday & a local 8K run on Sunday so don't think I'll get a chance to squeeze in my 20miler...

    Can I break it into 2 smaller runs? Or should I swop it with next weekend?

    No, you really need to do it all in one go, so in essence, you need to find another time to run it. It's a key session of your marathon training programme.

    You could always take it handy at the race on Sunday, and add 14-15 miles onto your 8k, straight after, if that was possible?


  • #2067
    career_move
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    quinlivan wrote: »
    Quick Question: I have a wedding Friday & a local 8K run on Sunday so don't think I'll get a chance to squeeze in my 20miler...

    Can I break it into 2 smaller runs? Or should I swop it with next weekend?
    No that would be a waste of time because you need the stimulus from running 20m nonstop. Maybe do like scriba says or else just concentrate on the 20 miler. At this stage it's far more important


  • #2068
    Bulmers74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭Bulmers74


    rob w wrote: »

    So who's up for Dublin HM at the weekend, there's a few of us in here I think isn't there?

    Plan to be there alright & looking forward to it. Trying to work out a strategy to give me best possible time.
    Booked my first sports massage for tomorrow which will be the first of 2 rest days. Thankfully no niggles but am hoping it will be of some benefit come Saturday. The thought of rest days for me seem to be ok beforehand but I'm not great during them, so tomorrow evening when I'm twiddling my thumbs I can say to myself you went for the massage thats better than any 4 miles easy pace. How do the more experienced heads deal with rest days & taper in general?


  • #2069
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Bulmers74 wrote: »
    Plan to be there alright & looking forward to it. Trying to work out a strategy to give me best possible time.
    Booked my first sports massage for tomorrow which will be the first of 2 rest days. Thankfully no niggles but am hoping it will be of some benefit come Saturday. The thought of rest days for me seem to be ok beforehand but I'm not great during them, so tomorrow evening when I'm twiddling my thumbs I can say to myself you went for the massage thats better than any 4 miles easy pace. How do the more experienced heads deal with rest days & taper in general?

    got my first sports massage yesterday Bulmers. Boy did it hurt but I only verbalised the pain once with a little whimper! Didn't want to come across as a wuss but when she was getting no reaction she just went at me harder I think... She kept asking "is it hurting yet?" I'm all bruised today so think I'll wear my longer running tights rather than my shorts as I look like some kind of abuse victim:o Enjoy:D


  • #2070
    sca21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45 ✭sca21


    I also got my first sports massage yesterday. My calfs were very tight. He did a great job at loosening them out and also gave some great advice on stretches. Turns out I wasn't doing my stretches properly. He laughed when I showed him the stretches I was doing and said I was lucky to get this far without injury. Anways, lesson learned and feel much better today after it. Well worth the investment.


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  • #2071
    quinlivan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭quinlivan


    career_move wrote: »
    No that would be a waste of time because you need the stimulus from running 20m nonstop. Maybe do like scriba says or else just concentrate on the 20 miler. At this stage it's far more important

    Thanks guys! I will find a way to make this work... Even if it means not being able to dance at the wedding Friday (I could do out Friday morning)


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