Mural in East Belfast of George Best to be replaced by UVF gunman

anncoates · 06-09-2013 11:10AM

The UVF obviously misunderstood the brief when they heard a mural was required for a British-based, heavy drinking East Belfast man with a propensity for wild shooting.

The Golden Miller · 06-09-2013 03:32PM

awec wrote: »

This is a real shame IMO. This lot are a bunch of scumbags. This is territory marking - no doubt about it and I am sure the people of the area don't want it. Maybe they want another few quid thrown at them.

But there's no point sitting here pretending that it's only part of one community who view these sort of scumbags as heroes - there are sections of the nationalist community who are more than happy to see IRA parades and whip out the old misty eyed poetic tripe when speaking about their "heroes".

For every goon who views Michael Stone as a hero there's another goon who views Brendan McFarlane as the same. For every Billy Wright idoliser there's a Sean Kelly idoliser (and I don't mean the cyclist!). Ultimately this is the problem, I think it's a mindset thing and I'm not sure how you fix it.

That said, comments like "there is a lot of support for paramilitaries in East Belfast" and that loyalists don't like George Best cause he wanted a UI football team are baseless and nonsense. A more cynical person may even label such statements differently.

ah the old sly dig at the irish nationalists bit again, in something completely unrelated to them. yet the irish people would never dream of throwing any sly digs at loyalists in an irish nationalist related thread, except bash their own even more. we wouldnt want to come accross as "sectarian to the other side". and these people say they are objective ha. pathetic. dont worry avec, you've shown yourself to be more enlightened and matured on the situation, by coming at it from the british perspective, with a thinly veiled british apologist post "its not just them, its us too", and im just a celtic jersey wearing, barstool republican for pointing it out. good lad

The Golden Miller · 06-09-2013 03:36PM

awec wrote: »

One would have to ask why you have such an issue with someone putting things into perspective. Would you prefer the thread just continue in a misleading manner, and we can all get in a bit of generic unionist bashing?

when does unionist bashing ever happen? like ever? i think your getting it mixed up with nationalist bashing, which happens all the time on here. why not read through the forum and see for yourself

06-09-2013 03:40PM

Wasn't George best an alcoholic wife beater anyway

replacing him with a gunman?
Wrong direction guys...

I am pie · 06-09-2013 03:48PM

awec wrote: »

This is a real shame IMO. This lot are a bunch of scumbags. This is territory marking - no doubt about it and I am sure the people of the area don't want it. Maybe they want another few quid thrown at them.

But there's no point sitting here pretending that it's only part of one community who view these sort of scumbags as heroes - there are sections of the nationalist community who are more than happy to see IRA parades and whip out the old misty eyed poetic tripe when speaking about their "heroes".

For every goon who views Michael Stone as a hero there's another goon who views Brendan McFarlane as the same. For every Billy Wright idoliser there's a Sean Kelly idoliser (and I don't mean the cyclist!). Ultimately this is the problem, I think it's a mindset thing and I'm not sure how you fix it.

That said, comments like "there is a lot of support for paramilitaries in East Belfast" and that loyalists don't like George Best cause he wanted a UI football team are baseless and nonsense. A more cynical person may even label such statements differently.

Good post, I get a ban everytime I use the appropriate words to express my disgust at these pathetic fools. It is an embarassment to every decent person from the North, however to suggest that people in East Belfast don't like George Best is completely and utterly idiotic.

As for the the English Celtic comments....words fail me, completely made up and inaccurate. Norman Whiteside from the Shankill played for United, as did Sammy McIlroy. They are extremely well supported in NI, as are Liverpool in both communities

Gulliver · 06-09-2013 04:00PM

The new painting shows a UVF gunman, along with a Martin Luther King quote, which states: 'Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed'.

Stupid question about that quote - who are the Loyalists gaining freedom from if they are loyal to the Crown/Country who control the area and Southern Ireland had no control over the area? Did I take it up wrong?

Genuine question, by the away.

BlatentCheek · 06-09-2013 04:10PM

The change of the mural reflects loyalist extremist groups consolidating their control over working class protestant areas - control which most mainstream unionists are too gutless to challenge.

The MLK quote is a ham-fisted attempt to copy the very smooth and effective PIRA method of hijacking progressive narratives from around the world to whitewash their own murder campaign

Capt'n Midnight · 07-09-2013 01:44AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-offence-to-george-best-but-loyalists-could-be-doing-with-a-few-more-heroes-1.1518776

it's the IT so probably can't quote it but the article compares Unionists in the Maze getting misspelt tattoos and doing weights with Republicans doing degrees and boning up on the law

Highflyer13 · 07-09-2013 02:11AM

Lol Loyalists. They take down a mural of a legend who represented them well to replace it with a gunman. Words fail me.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 07-09-2013 05:16AM

Best was raised in a staunch Unionist family, his father was a member of the Orange Order and a young George also took part in marches during his youth. As an adult he tried to keep out of the whole political scene in his footballing career, I think when he raised the point of having a United Ireland soccer team some of the hardliners went off him, Pathetic really when you think about. He was their hero at one point, as the line goes 'Georgie, Georgie they call you the Belfast boy.'

ardle1 · 07-09-2013 05:44AM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

http://www.u.tv/News/Best-mural-replaced-with-UVF-gunman/c05eac9c-0729-4e41-be20-bf70dc6aa5de

So another non-sectarian mural is being replaced by a masked UVF gunman in east Belfast. I'm not getting the Martin Luther King quote though, why place a man who dedicated his life to peace and who believed in non-violent protest next man holding a machine gun?

Anyway although a senior PUP man has condemned it, there appears to be a lot of support for it on loyalist forums and facebook pages. Apparantly it represents 'the tension' and 'current mood' that is felt in east belfast regarding the flag protests. Anger basically.

There's a lot of support for paramilitaries in East Belfast still, people who are regarded as heroes to the local community. Did the UVF actually kill many IRA men? I guess if they did that would have been fair game but I get the impression most of the time they just killed random drunk taigs and entering pubs and shooting innocent catholics watching football matches. :rolleyes:

Oh and George Best isn't that popular with some loyalists on forums of course because he famously wanted a UI football team and played for the so called "English Celtic".

Awh right seriously, no s#*t, anyway back to the Coronation St Thread:rolleyes:

Son Of A Vidic · 07-09-2013 06:23AM

awec wrote: »

But there's no point sitting here pretending that it's only part of one community who view these sort of scumbags as heroes - there are sections of the nationalist community who are more than happy to see IRA parades and whip out the old misty eyed poetic tripe when speaking about their "heroes".

Of course this conveniently overlooks the fact, that the catholic community viewed itself as the oppressed during the war. As opposed to Loyalism, which fought to maintain it's perched position of dominance and subjugation over the catholic community. Thankfully the days of sectarian rule and the orange statelet are long dead and consigned to history.

iDave · 07-09-2013 07:54AM

The cheek of them to compare themselves to the oppressed African American communities. Ulster Loyalism is a byword for discrimination and hatred and they have no right to ever view themselves as oppressed. NI post partition fitted every sensible definition of an apartheid state run by the same ideology that pretends to be discriminated against. Pathetic.

0ph0rce0 · 07-09-2013 08:14AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Best was raised in a staunch Unionist family, his father was a member of the Orange Order and a young George also took part in marches during his youth. As an adult he tried to keep out of the whole political scene in his footballing career, I think when he raised the point of having a United Ireland soccer team some of the hardliners went off him, Pathetic really when you think about. He was their hero at one point, as the line goes 'Georgie, Georgie they call you the Belfast boy.'

Probably the same UVF scum that shot up the pub in Down in the 90's because they were watching the REPUBLIC of Ireland match and said to themselves they must be Catholics :rolleyes:

bbam · 07-09-2013 08:20AM

Feck them and their murals.
Couldn't care less if they painted their mas asses on the walls.
Leave them and their petty paintings and parades.

crazygeryy · 07-09-2013 08:27AM

george who?

Duck's hoop · 07-09-2013 08:38AM

K-9 wrote: »

it's a narrative that does seem to get more traction in Loyalist discussions for obvious reasons. A section of that society who enjoyed a supremacy background, now feel threatened...

It's been like this in Derry for many years. The murals evoking comparisons between Derry Protestants and West Bank Palestinians always raise a wry smile.

I'm sure they're taking the p1ss.

I also think it serves as a stark reminder how fecking complicated the whole 'Ulster' thing is, that Loyalists would identify so strongly with Cuchullain, the Cattle Raid, Red Hand and all the rest.

bobbysands81 · 07-09-2013 09:13AM

awec wrote: »

This is a real shame IMO. This lot are a bunch of scumbags. This is territory marking - no doubt about it and I am sure the people of the area don't want it. Maybe they want another few quid thrown at them.

But there's no point sitting here pretending that it's only part of one community who view these sort of scumbags as heroes - there are sections of the nationalist community who are more than happy to see IRA parades and whip out the old misty eyed poetic tripe when speaking about their "heroes".

For every goon who views Michael Stone as a hero there's another goon who views Brendan McFarlane as the same. For every Billy Wright idoliser there's a Sean Kelly idoliser (and I don't mean the cyclist!). Ultimately this is the problem, I think it's a mindset thing and I'm not sure how you fix it.

That said, comments like "there is a lot of support for paramilitaries in East Belfast" and that loyalists don't like George Best cause he wanted a UI football team are baseless and nonsense. A more cynical person may even label such statements differently.

Classic whataboutary and just about every generalisation that you could have when it comes to the north. Why bother?

.jacksparrow. · 07-09-2013 09:24AM

Its the young generation who don't remember the troubles in east Belfast who are stirring this up again.

Mostly teenagers where there is massive unemployment etc.

Senior loyalist politicians have no control or sway over these as evident from the flag issues.

Saab Ed · 07-09-2013 09:25AM

BIg digger, large trench, bye bye. Since our earliest written history its always been the most troublesome part of the island. Different people's these days I'm afraid, might as well be Welsh or Bretons. One shared past but not much in common today. I rue the day the metal barricade border crossings came down.

Duck's hoop · 07-09-2013 09:35AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

BIg digger, large trench, bye bye. Since our earliest written history its always been the most troublesome part of the island. Different people's these days I'm afraid, might as well be Welsh or Bretons. One shared past but not much in common today. I rue the day the metal barricade border crossings came down.

This post is too stupid for words.

bobbysands81 · 07-09-2013 09:48AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

BIg digger, large trench, bye bye. Since our earliest written history its always been the most troublesome part of the island. Different people's these days I'm afraid, might as well be Welsh or Bretons. One shared past but not much in common today. I rue the day the metal barricade border crossings came down.

You're talking about Cork yeah?

.jacksparrow. · 07-09-2013 09:50AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

BIg digger, large trench, bye bye. Since our earliest written history its always been the most troublesome part of the island. Different people's these days I'm afraid, might as well be Welsh or Bretons. One shared past but not much in common today. I rue the day the metal barricade border crossings came down.

Excellent contribution.

insignia33 · 07-09-2013 10:06AM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I'm not getting the Martin Luther King quote though, why place a man who dedicated his life to peace and who believed in non-violent protest next man holding a machine gun?

I dont think MLK was as peaceful as some people say. I know its not the most reliable source in the world but I remember during a communications class one of the girls gave a 15 minute presentation on MLK and Mother Teresa saying they are both idolised and held up as shining examples but both have a darker side thats always swept under the carpet.

c_man · 07-09-2013 10:45AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

It's been like this in Derry for many years. The murals evoking comparisons between Derry Protestants and West Bank Palestinians always raise a wry smile.

:eek: You don't have a link or anything? I find that equally shocking and hilarious.

07-09-2013 11:21AM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Classic whataboutary and just about every generalisation that you could have when it comes to the north. Why bother?

Says a guy called 'bobbysands81'. The irony is lost, I'm sure.

mad muffin · 07-09-2013 11:25AM

Serious question.

I'm planing to go up to Victoria Square in Belfast in a few weeks when the new iPhone comes out.

Is it safe to do so? I've gone up in 2010 and 2011 without a seconds thought but there has been a lot of **** kicked up of late, no?

Duck's hoop · 07-09-2013 11:48AM

c_man wrote: »

:eek: You don't have a link or anything? I find that equally shocking and hilarious.

A simple google of Derry Murals will see you right.

bobbysands81 · 07-09-2013 12:16PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Says a guy called 'bobbysands81'. The irony is lost, I'm sure.

The irony is completely lost on me, care to explain it?

.jacksparrow. · 07-09-2013 12:28PM

The red hand defenders has issued a threat to 3 catholic schools its in the Irish news today.

Loyalist military threat to pupils

A loyalist para-military group threatened to take action against children attending 3 catholic schools in North Belfast. A man claiming to represent the Red Hand Defenders issued the threat using a codeword. The group formed in 1998, is not believed to believed to have been active in recent years. In 1999 it admitted responsibility for the murder of human rights solicitor Rosemary Nelson after a bomb exploded under her carnear her home in Lurgan,Co. Armagh.
In a statement to the Irish News the group said

It have " re-activated in response to attacks on the Protestant Unionist Loyalist community in recent and would would target 3 schools in greater Belfast. " Parents, pupils and staff who go to those schools are no longer welcome at the three schools " it read. Those 3 schools are in protestant unionist and loyalist areas and as our parades and people are not welcome in nationalist areas therefore { anything } to do with those schools will now become legitimate targets " The group said it wanted the schools to be made aware of the threat, adding " If this message is not taken on board by the community then trouble will commence on Monday morning and military action will also commence on Monday morning

Mural in East Belfast of George Best to be replaced by UVF gunman

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