Ireland v England Sept 3

Lovely Bloke · 03-09-2013 5:53pm

...and well done England.

Richard Hillman · 03-09-2013 5:59pm

Well that ended in a damp squib. Great partnership from Bopara and Morgan. The 2 quality players stood out

riffmongous · 03-09-2013 6:15pm

Yeah Eoin great job, you did Irish cricket a great favour today :rolleyes:

Tredwell bowled really for England too, 35-2 off of his 10 overs compared to the poor showing by Stirling and Dockrell, 36 off 5 overs and 73 off 10 overs respectively

Lovely Bloke · 03-09-2013 6:23pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah Eoin great job, you did Irish cricket a great favour today :rolleyes:

Jesus christ, get over it - what was he supposed to do? bat to score no runs?:rolleyes:

Dozen Wicked Words · 03-09-2013 6:29pm

Ground looked fantastic the few minutes I caught. Excellent, international class venue.

Think Morgan was on a bit of a hiding to nothing, damned if he smacked it around the park, damned if he didn't.

England looked to be in control after the early wobble. Still think David Willey should have been in the team though!

riffmongous · 03-09-2013 6:31pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Jesus christ, get over it - what was he supposed to do? bat to score no runs?:rolleyes:

He shouldn't be there in the first place. If he wants to play tests for England, great, let him, but why is he playing ODIs for England? If he gets to play tests for England it will be based on his 4 day county game. Yes he is subject to the 4 year rule now but Morgan has never come out against that rule, and if he wants to say what he does is great for Irish cricket then people can complain about him.

Every game we play now has a big effect on the future of Irish cricket and losing to an England B+ team due in a large part to the performances of two former Irish players does not help us in anyway

wicorthered · 03-09-2013 6:57pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Or maybe England play Anderson, Broad, Pietersen, Swann, Cook, Trott, Bell et al instead?? It's frustrating yes, but we could be facing a lot worse than Rankin/Morgan

I'd much prefer a stronger English team over. It would help promote the game here. It'd be very exciting for an an Irish crowd to see KP live in action.

That doesn't take away from the fact that as an Irish cricket fan I feel depressed our best players play for England. Prior to the game Morgan spoke about Stirling being next. We have the talent in the country to progress, just not the structure. With our best players leaving all the time it's hard to put the structure in place. So it a vicious circle!

I have no animosity for Morgan, Rankin etc. They're professionals who want to reach the top of their sports, who can blame them. I'd imagine they'd prefer to do it for Ireland but we're unable to offer them the chance!

All that said, Irish cricket is on the up. Inter-pros were fantastic, both full members that visited got an almighty fright we qualified for another world cup and todays game again highlighted the increasing popularity of the game here.

riffmongous · 03-09-2013 7:15pm

What were the attendances like at the Inter-pros Wicorthered out of interest?

decies · 03-09-2013 7:21pm

riffmongous wrote: »

He shouldn't be there in the first place. If he wants to play tests for England, great, let him, but why is he playing ODIs for England? If he gets to play tests for England it will be based on his 4 day county game. Yes he is subject to the 4 year rule now but Morgan has never come out against that rule, and if he wants to say what he does is great for Irish cricket then people can complain about him.

Every game we play now has a big effect on the future of Irish cricket and losing to an England B+ team due in a large part to the performances of two former Irish players does not help us in anyway

I agree losing this game wont do us any favours , not withstanding our bowling attack this is a game we really should be winning we have gone way past the moral victories in irish sport.Well done on the irish cricket union finding a lovely venue and attracting a big crowd,onwards and upwards. Now its back supporting my second favourite team the aussies in the ODI,s and the ashes in the winter.Good luck to ireland in their remaining fixtures this year.

wicorthered · 03-09-2013 7:33pm

riffmongous wrote: »

What were the attendances like at the Inter-pros Wicorthered out of interest?

I wouldn't be to sure, from what I read the attendances weren't great. I went to one day of a three day game and the attendance wasn't great, less than 100 people. The cricket played was very good though. Some potential new internationals such as Richardson and Dougherty impressed!

riffmongous · 03-09-2013 7:37pm

decies wrote: »

I agree losing this game wont do us any favours , not withstanding our bowling attack this is a game we really should be winning we have gone way past the moral victories in irish sport.Well done on the irish cricket union finding a lovely venue and attracting a big crowd,onwards and upwards. Now its back supporting my second favourite team the aussies in the ODI,s and the ashes in the winter.

Indeed and I think the Irish cricket team itself has really moved beyond moral victories for a few years now and I think every supporter of Irish cricket owes it to them to treat them so. We played 3 ODIs against full members this year and we got into a great position in everyone of them but came away with nothing in the end, winning at least one of them would have raised the profile of cricket both at home and internationally a huge amount.

The inter-pros have been set up, the ground looked really fantastic today and the guys off the pitch are doing a fantastic job and public interest is high. But if we continue to only play a few games a year and our best players and constantly drained away then it wont last for ever, Ireland has a great opportunity here and I hope it doesnt fade away.

riffmongous · 03-09-2013 7:47pm

wicorthered wrote: »

I wouldn't be to sure, from what I read the attendances weren't great. I went to one day of a three day game and the attendance wasn't great, less than 100 people. The cricket played was very good though. Some potential new internationals such as Richardson and Dougherty impressed!

It's actually higher than what I would have guessed and sure 4 day cricket in England doesn't really bring them in either. It sounds like its serving its purpose though, I wonder if they would give anymore thought to including a Dutch and Scottish team? Try to make it like the Magners league, maybe play a 20-20 on the 4th day or something. Deutrom seems to be doing an excellent job anyway

y0ssar1an22 · 03-09-2013 7:47pm

Atherton's interview afterwards...'so we'll see you again in a few years time'. They need to be playing ODIs against test nations a lot more frequently than this.
Do they have to pay these nations to come over or how does that side of things work?

Rascasse · 03-09-2013 7:50pm

I thought it was a good match. The result wasn't unexpected. Ireland in no way embarrassed themselves and once again showed they're a cut above the other associates (contrast with Scotland today). Plenty of boundaries to keep the crowds entertained, perfect weather, etc

Once they get that outfield sorted (I assume it's a problem with tree roots?) and the pavilion built it will be a decent ground that should be able to attract more big matches.

Only disappointing thing was the booing of Rankin.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-09-2013 9:08pm

Is there not a large degree of pointlessness in Ireland competing in international Cricket when England can just snap up their best players as they choose.How in the name of God are the team ever likely to improve and how is the game going to get much credibility in Ireland when people see the country's best players line out for England.Surely if anything the smaller countries like Ireland should be allowed to benefit more from having foreigners play for them and not the established nations like England.

Larbre34 · 03-09-2013 9:47pm

It is utterly pointless and ridiculous of course. Discriminating between test and short form games regarding selection and nationality is daft. At the very least the rugby union protocol should apply - once you qualify and represent a nation other than your birth/heritage, then that change applies for life, no flip flopping.

Lovely Bloke · 04-09-2013 9:02am

But they can't play Test for Ireland, so if there was such a stipulation then we'd be WORSE off, where kids with potential are told to not play for Ireland if they want any shot at Test. It would be ludicrous.

I think as it is is probably the fairest way it can be, for associate nations. Players can take a stab at getting into a Test squad, but if they don't make it then they can come back. Why should they be denied the opportunity to play at the very pinnacle of their sport?

Eoin Morgan is a very good example. He gets better exposure as an occasional ODI performer for England than he can get for Ireland, earns more, has more earning potential in future and has represented England at the highest level. We should be PROUD that we produced a player of that calibre.

And now Rankin is trying his hand at it. Fair play to him I say. We should be encouraging these guys, not booing them or disparaging them.

Larbre34 · 04-09-2013 10:19am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

But they can't play Test for Ireland, so if there was such a stipulation then we'd be WORSE off, where kids with potential are told to not play for Ireland if they want any shot at Test. It would be ludicrous.

I think as it is is probably the fairest way it can be, for associate nations. Players can take a stab at getting into a Test squad, but if they don't make it then they can come back. Why should they be denied the opportunity to play at the very pinnacle of their sport?

Eoin Morgan is a very good example. He gets better exposure as an occasional ODI performer for England than he can get for Ireland, earns more, has more earning potential in future and has represented England at the highest level. We should be PROUD that we produced a player of that calibre.

And now Rankin is trying his hand at it. Fair play to him I say. We should be encouraging these guys, not booing them or disparaging them.

Because it devalues the nationality of the man and of both countries. If he goes to England, he should stay gone, in a Cricket sense. The sight of Ed Joyce returning to play for Ireland now hes on the England scrapheap is galling.

I am very proud to see players of the calibre of Morgan, Rankin et al coming from Irish clubs and traditions, and as Ive said before I hope they flourish in the big leagues and make an excellent living from their talent - but this flag of convenience stuff between Test and Associate play is rotten.

I was watching the highlights of the ODI last night, my wife stayed watching the first bit of cricket I think she ever watched and was enjoying it, until the nationality matter arose and I explained the prevailing situation to her. After asking me a few times if she understood me right, even she who has little interest in sport was able to cite George Best and Ryan Giggs as examples of legendary players who stuck with their home nations even though it denied them a shot at the international stage. This week we see the worlds most 'valuable' player in football moving to a top club, but knowing with almost certainty that he will never appear at a Euros or World Cup.

djimi · 04-09-2013 10:27am

Larbre34 wrote: »

I was watching the highlights of the ODI last night, my wife stayed watching the first bit of cricket I think she ever watched and was enjoying it, until the nationality matter arose and I explained the prevailing situation to her. After asking me a few times if she understood me right, even she who has little interest in sport was able to cite George Best and Ryan Giggs as examples of legendary players who stuck with their home nations even though it denied them a shot at the international stage. This week we see the worlds most 'valuable' player in football moving to a top club, but knowing with almost certainty that he will never appear at a Euros or World Cup.

Its a bit different in football though. The likes of Bale or Giggs could still play at a world cup even it is unlikely that Wales wouls quality. They will still play a lot of games at the highest level against the best opposition in qualifiers etc.

And its not unheard of in football for players to choose bigger countries over the country of their birth.

Gambas · 04-09-2013 10:52am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ryan Giggs

Probably not the best example, as he played at underage level for England before switching to Wales.

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-09-2013 10:52am

Watching highlights, apart from odd bit of booing, thought the crowd were extremely generous, lot of warm applause for boundaries and 50s etc.

Larbre34 · 04-09-2013 11:29am

Gambas wrote: »

Probably not the best example, as he played at underage level for England before switching to Wales.

Fair enough, and a good few ROI players are in the same position having played underage with NI, England etc. The difference is, once they get to representative level, there is no going back.

d'Oracle · 04-09-2013 1:45pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Fair enough, and a good few ROI players are in the same position having played underage with NI, England etc. The difference is, once they get to representative level, there is no going back.

A difference is.

Look I don't want to sound obnoxious here folks, but comparing this situation with Football is just silly. They are not only different sports but completely different structures.

Football is easy, if you play full international for Ireland, you have played at the top of your sport. You get your shot to compete for the right to go to the Euros and the WC.

There is nothing comparable to Test cricket in football. There is nothing comparable to the ICC member structure in football.

Test cricket is largely why this happens. Money is a factor as someone has pointed out, but the money is only really better if you are good enough to play Test.

I was fairly cut up yesterday, but when you think about it, England put a lot into our players and probably deserve to take them if they see fit. Morgan probably thinks he is being diplomatic but I think he just needs to STFU now and again. I understand he is doing well for himself and part of me is happy he had a strong knock yesterday, because I don't want to see players leave us in vain, but he needs to be aware that his comments kind of piss all over the Irish fans now and again.

Rankin I feel is a different story. I have said before that ECB are the villains in the piece, its probably a bit too emotive of me, but in this case I think its warranted. I don't think Boyd is good enough to play Test cricket for England, (barring an injury apocalypse) and I'm not convinced that the ECB do either. Now you couldn't expect him to believe that, so I place that one firmly at their feet. My worst fear is that Stirling will go, play an ODI or two and not get a look because he is "too much of a one-day player".

I disagree with whoever said that its galling to have Joyce back. I think its great that he could come back and contribute, even if he did do riverdance on his stumps. I'm only sorry he had to wait 4 years after, which is why the new 2 years rule is a gift.

StephenHendry · 04-09-2013 2:00pm

good effort by us yesterday against an england b team but anyway we can only improve and for a while yesterday, england were struggling. ourselves and scotland can only benefit from these games against the stronger sides. i'm not sure whether we can be competing in test series for a good while yet but we've made great progress in a short space of time. i think welsh cricket fans would love to have an international side of their own but for alot of different reasons this may/may not happen

riffmongous · 04-09-2013 2:06pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

....

I was pretty critical of Rankin when he first turned but while we'll probably never know what really happened it certainly seems like he was put under a lot of pressure to retire from Irish cricket. And what galls me is that while I have no problem with Rankin or Morgan playing test cricket for England since they have no other choice, the path to test cricket should not being through playing ODIs for England.

djimi · 04-09-2013 2:14pm

riffmongous wrote: »

the path to test cricket should not being through playing ODIs for England.

England have a history of bringing test players through the ODI side though. So for players like Morgan and Rankin who have not come up through the English system and who have comparatively little county experience, its probably the most straightforward way for them to stake their claim in the test side. The reality for those players is that they probably wouldnt get much of a look in at test level without starting in the ODI side first.

riffmongous · 04-09-2013 2:30pm

djimi wrote: »

England have a history of bringing test players through the ODI side though. So for players like Morgan and Rankin who have not come up through the English system and who have comparatively little county experience, its probably the most straightforward way for them to stake their claim in the test side. The reality for those players is that they probably wouldnt get much of a look in at test level without starting in the ODI side first.

I think England have started to move away from that system recently though right? I havent followed the english squad very much the last years but I thought the big differences between the odi,20/20 and test squads pointed towards a change in selection. Plus Morgan and Rankin have been playing country cricket for a few years now iirc. Morgan's first class average this season was only 32, incidentally Joyce average 70. Rankin averaged 24 in bowling, Murtagh ironically 19.

To put it one way, if Irish players want to play test cricket for England, then great, that actually helps the cause of Irish cricket. But there needs to be a better system for it, what we can't tolerate is a situation where England uses the carrot of test cricket to get themselves a few handy odi players. Morgan was talking in an interview just before the game about helping Stirling to qualify for England in a year, dockwell will also realistically get an odi chance within a few years

d'Oracle · 04-09-2013 2:52pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I think England have started to move away from that system recently though right? I havent followed the english squad very much the last years but I thought the big differences between the odi,20/20 and test squads pointed towards a change in selection. Plus Morgan and Rankin have been playing country cricket for a few years now iirc. Morgan's first class average this season was only 32, incidentally Joyce average 70. Rankin averaged 24 in bowling, Murtagh ironically 19.

Bout right. Joyce is so much better suited to the long format, yet he got dropped on the back of a few ODI's.

riffmongous · 04-09-2013 2:59pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

Bout right. Joyce is so much better suited to the long format, yet he got dropped on the back of a few ODI's.

Joyce was treated very unfairly I thought, more or less he was the scapegoat for a poor world cup

Ireland v England Sept 3

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