Price Of Drink In Pubs

Leroy42 · 31-08-2013 08:04PM

minidazzler wrote: »

Groups of bars would do that. Fitzgeralds in Dublin and Reardens on Cork do. But the small rural pubs just can't and other independent pubs in cities would need to hire someone to co-ordinate orders anyway which could kill the profit in it. Never mind the need for storage.

So it could be done, but because of the hassle the pubs won't bother and then cry about customers picking a cheaper option?

If the publican cannot get the product at the right price, simply move to another product. If they feel that their customers only want that type of product then they need to look at other areas. They need to differentiate themselves from purely drink, it's like comparing steak bought in a butchers to a restaurant. same thing but you are paying for the experience and talent of the chef. However, taking a bottle from a fridge and taking the top off does not equate to an additional 300% charge.

rubadub · 03-09-2013 01:00PM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

If a supermarket can sell a case of beer for €24, or €1 per unit that means even if they are only breaking even they are paying only 81.3c per unit once it's de-vated @ 23%. Yet publicans pay cq. €150 for a keg (ex. vat), i.e. €1.70 per pint from a 50L keg.

My mate works in a bar and they get all the heineken bottles in the local tesco or centra. There is no way I believe a centra is selling below cost, it doesn't fit the "weekly shop" model. Distributors rip off the publicans, and then this overpaying morons scream "below cost"

If I owned a pub I would shun overpriced kegs, I would also sell cans. I can never get my head around why more pubs do not sell cans as an alternative, or alongside them. Some have weird notions about them, they would NEVER drink a can in a pub, yet at home or at a friends BBQ no problem, they are also less choosy.

I was in one pub in enniscorthy which only had cans. In another they had cans at a gig going on, possibly to not have to give out glasses or crappy plastic cups, made perfect sense to me.

Leroy42 · 03-09-2013 01:06PM

rubadub wrote: »

My mate works in a bar and they get all the heineken bottles in the local tesco or centra. There is no way I believe a centra is selling below cost, it doesn't fit the "weekly shop" model. Distributors rip off the publicans, and then this overpaying morons scream "below cost"

If I owned a pub I would shun overpriced kegs, I would also sell cans. I can never get my head around why more pubs do not sell cans as an alternative, or alongside them. Some have weird notions about them, they would NEVER drink a can in a pub, yet at home or at a friends BBQ no problem, they are also less choosy.

I was in one pub in enniscorthy which only had cans. In another they had cans at a gig going on, possibly to not have to give out glasses or crappy plastic cups, made perfect sense to me.

Thats a very interesting idea. The publican could continue to offer draught pints at €5, alongside a chilled can poured into a glass for (let allow the pub to make money here) €2. I know if I was offered that choice which I'd go for.

For those you rate the draught pint as superior then the option is still there, but no doubt the €2 would attract lots of people back in as the extra cost over the home option is worth it for the night out.

Many restuarants do a version of this by allowing people to bring their own wine. Yes they loose out on the wine profits, but they make money ona table that would probably be empty.

Heroditas · 03-09-2013 01:19PM

Kennys in Lucan now allow you buy wine in their attached off-licence and for a modest corkage charge, you can then drink it in the pub.
what's even more impressive is if you ring ahead and pick a red wine, they'll uncork it and decant it or let it breathe so it's ready for you when you arrive.

Sometimes it's the simple things and the small touches!

bladespin · 03-09-2013 01:21PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Thats a very interesting idea. The publican could continue to offer draught pints at €5, alongside a chilled can poured into a glass for (let allow the pub to make money here) €2. I know if I was offered that choice which I'd go for.

My local does something like that, they don't have Carlsberg on draft so sell the cans to anyone who wants it, €4.20 a can lol.

my friend · 03-09-2013 01:27PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Thats a very interesting idea. The publican could continue to offer draught pints at €5, alongside a chilled can poured into a glass for (let allow the pub to make money here) €2. I know if I was offered that choice which I'd go for.

For those you rate the draught pint as superior then the option is still there, but no doubt the €2 would attract lots of people back in as the extra cost over the home option is worth it for the night out.

Many restuarants do a version of this by allowing people to bring their own wine. Yes they loose out on the wine profits, but they make money ona table that would probably be empty.

Believe it or not the party wouldn't last long, note what happened most of the pubs that went down the €3 pint road a few years ago.

Lucena · 03-09-2013 01:39PM

my friend wrote: »

Believe it or not the party wouldn't last long, note what happened most of the pubs that went down the €3 pint road a few years ago.

What happened? Scummier elements turning up? Or normal customers getting sh1t-faced?

rubadub · 03-09-2013 01:49PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

draught pints at €5, alongside a chilled can poured into a glass for (let allow the pub to make money here) €2.

I would have them at the same profit per ml in my pub, so not huge difference, I would think about having a notice up displaying this. I am not sure if kegs or bottles cost more to pubs, e.g. storage, maintenance of lines, getting rid of bottles (if not bought through distributors)

Lucena wrote: »

What happened?

Thats what I wonder, any barmen I talked to said it was a great success. I know lads in their 50's who changed from being strict bud drinkers to tuborg or tennants.

Leroy42 · 03-09-2013 02:21PM

rubadub wrote: »

I would have them at the same profit per ml in my pub, so not huge difference, I would think about having a notice up displaying this. I am not sure if kegs or bottles cost more to pubs, e.g. storage, maintenance of lines, getting rid of bottles (if not bought through distributors)

Of course there would be a difference. This whole thread is based on the OP assertion that the pubs are effectively being charged extra for their kegs than the multiples for their bottles/cans.

If I can buy a can for €1.50 from my local Centra you can be sure that a pub shifting a few hundred/thousand a week will get better pricing.

And forget about the same profit per ML, that's the sort of thinking that has the pub trade i the mess they claim they are in. Unwilling to shirt their business model in the face of additional competition and changing customer habits.

rubadub · 03-09-2013 02:42PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course there would be a difference.

I am saying the price of serving and cleaning up after a drink will be different between cans/bottles/pints. So this must be factored in, and I am just not sure which costs pubs more.

You are suggesting a €3 difference, I cannot see it being that much if they are working off the same margins.

And forget about the same profit per ML, that's the sort of thinking that has the pub trade i the mess they claim they are in.

what happened to the pubs? do you know of some who priced on a per ml basis? or what?

Leroy42 · 03-09-2013 04:21PM

I'm not suggesting a €3 difference, the market conditions are. Of course the publican is entitled to charge for clean-up, premises etc in the same way a restaurant or cafe does, but selling a can for €5 which can be bought in your local Centra of €1.5/€2 is not going to fool anyone.

Pubs are saying that trade is falling away, smoking ban/drink driving crackdown and now below cost selling. All I'm saying is that the pub can continue on thinking that it is somehow a protected species but in truth many will be forced to close as they cling on to a model based on pretty much them having the only real access to the market.

Remember that alcohol used to be much harder to get in prior years. No local Centra, no late night shopping etc. The market for their product has changed. It is now much easier to get and much cheaper. Why pay €5 for a pint in a bar when you can have a few of them at home for the same amount. That is the reality whether they like it or not and customers are not concerned with how much it costs to run the place.

The pubs in my area seem to be doing little to counteract the new market. They seem to think that simply sitting there will be enough to bring the punters in. Can't do drink deals, do free food, free cordials, quiz nights etc.

The pubs I have worked in/for don't price per ML put rather on number of pints per keg and GM%. So Keg costs x amount / by number fo pints expected from it (usually a good barmen will get a few more) and get price per pint. Then check against other pubs and viola.

Big Nasty · 03-09-2013 06:26PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

If I can buy a can for €1.50 from my local Centra you can be sure that a pub shifting a few hundred/thousand a week will get better pricing.

They're not though.

minidazzler · 03-09-2013 09:28PM

This is actually something I've been really thinking about for a while now. I don't see why all pubs have taps, there is less profit in them and upkeep of them costs more. Why are there no bottle and shot only bars in Ireland? No draft, just bottles, shots, wine and maybe cocktails. Simple and inexpensive.....

I'm trying to put together some sort of business plan where I could open a bar for 20 odd thousand and run it on the principal of simplicity. No fcuking about with getting keg lines installed. Just the above mentioned. I'd imagine if it's legal to sell drink bought in Tesco and all on the up and up, a single man operation could turn a decent profit quickly at €3.50 a bottle.

The two main issues I can see with it are finding a suitable location and fighting off the breweries looking to give you a few free kegs so you install taps.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2013 08:57AM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

They're not though.

They're not though what?

They aren't getting better pricing? Well that is their problem really. They need to move away from direct buying from breweries. Many don't because they fear what will happen, but sitting around leaving things as they are are seeing many pubs have to close, I know which avenue I would go down.

Pubs have had it so easy for so long that many owners simply do not know what to do when faced with a changing market.

The success of micro brewery pubs prove that there is a market out there for beers other than the usual. I'm not saying get rid of the other usuals but also offer alternatives at better pricing. Many will stick with the usual and pay the premium, I would hazard that many would be inclined to at least try the cheaper alternatives.

Geuze · 04-09-2013 12:00PM

minidazzler wrote: »

I'm trying to put together some sort of business plan where I could open a bar for 20 odd thousand and run it on the principal of simplicity. No fcuking about with getting keg lines installed. Just the above mentioned. I'd imagine if it's legal to sell drink bought in Tesco and all on the up and up, a single man operation could turn a decent profit quickly at €3.50 a bottle.

The two main issues I can see with it are finding a suitable location and fighting off the breweries looking to give you a few free kegs so you install taps.

33cl bottle at 3.50 = 6 euro per pint.

I pay 4.00-4.50 per pint for Guinness, Galway Hooker PA, Guinness ES bottles, etc.

Why would I pay 6 euro per pint for the same beer, in a bottle??

Unless you mean 50cl bottles??

Geuze · 04-09-2013 12:02PM

minidazzler wrote: »

This is actually something I've been really thinking about for a while now. I don't see why all pubs have taps, there is less profit in them and upkeep of them costs more. Why are there no bottle and shot only bars in Ireland? No draft, just bottles, shots, wine and maybe cocktails. Simple and inexpensive.....

Guinness draught isn't packaged in bottles, is it?

You can get 33cl and 50cl cans of Guinness draught, ok.

techdiver · 04-09-2013 12:07PM

If the breweries are the issue, why do micro brewery operations such as "The Porter House" charge so much for their own beers? Surely the fact that they are not reliant on Heineken etc means that their own product should be sold cheaper, but it's not. In fact it's as high if not higher than what is charged for mainstream beers in ordinary pubs.

Lucena · 04-09-2013 12:24PM

techdiver wrote: »

If the breweries are the issue, why do micro brewery operations such as "The Porter House" charge so much for their own beers? Surely the fact that they are not reliant on Heineken etc means that their own product should be sold cheaper, but it's not. In fact it's as high if not higher than what is charged for mainstream beers in ordinary pubs.

Because there's a demand for high-end beers, and very few outlets in Ireland. Any time I'm in Dublin, I'll try to go to the Porter House, and as it's at most once every year, I don't mind paying a little extra.

Also their central location may mean they have to keep their prices up.

However if more pubs did this, prices might come down a bit, as the Porter House would no longer be unique.

Duiske · 04-09-2013 12:42PM

bladespin wrote: »

My local does something like that, they don't have Carlsberg on draft so sell the cans to anyone who wants it, €4.20 a can lol.

In my area I don't know a pub that does not sell cans. Bud and Heineken seem to be most popular canned beers, though obviously far outsold by draught.
Bulmer's cans though, at a guess, appear to outsell draught and bottles by about 3/1. Prices vary from €3 to €3.50 for beers and roughly €3.50 to €4 for cider. I'd prefer draught Bulmers myself, but with the popularity of cans very few pubs bothered with pumps, and some got rid.

irish_goat · 04-09-2013 12:54PM

techdiver wrote: »

If the breweries are the issue, why do micro brewery operations such as "The Porter House" charge so much for their own beers? Surely the fact that they are not reliant on Heineken etc means that their own product should be sold cheaper, but it's not. In fact it's as high if not higher than what is charged for mainstream beers in ordinary pubs.

Porterhouse is cheaper, it's about €4.90 for a pint of lager in the their Temple Bar pub, surely cheaper than most nearby places.

Micros also can't make beer anywhere near as cheaply as the big boys can.

sasta le · 04-09-2013 08:45PM

How can Diceys in Dublin Harcourt street do drinks at 2.2.50, etc on different think 4 is the dearest ive seen adverised

Geuze · 04-09-2013 10:52PM

techdiver wrote: »

If the breweries are the issue, why do micro brewery operations such as "The Porter House" charge so much for their own beers? Surely the fact that they are not reliant on Heineken etc means that their own product should be sold cheaper, but it's not. In fact it's as high if not higher than what is charged for mainstream beers in ordinary pubs.

Large brewers with huge scale, and massive brews/tanks/production runs can make millions of litres per day, and so drive down cost per unit.

The large brewers don't pass on these economies of scale to pubs.

Tube · 04-09-2013 11:31PM

techdiver wrote: »

If the breweries are the issue, why do micro brewery operations such as "The Porter House" charge so much for their own beers? Surely the fact that they are not reliant on Heineken etc means that their own product should be sold cheaper, but it's not. In fact it's as high if not higher than what is charged for mainstream beers in ordinary pubs.

I think it is a little cheaper. But they don't have the same distribution costs.

Also, anyone in business will charge what people will pay, regardless of how much it costs to make the product.

Losty Dublin · 05-09-2013 12:56PM

sasta le wrote: »

How can Diceys in Dublin Harcourt street do drinks at 2.2.50, etc on different think 4 is the dearest ive seen adverised

Three reasons how they can may go like this.

The massive volumes that they'd sell would allow them to tick over far easier. If they make 10 cent of a margin on a drink and say they sell 10,000 drinks, that's a grand. The place is busy most days and nights and several bars on the go at any one time so you can let your crayons do the guess sums.
I've worked in that said hotel in the past; they are a low cost business and they do not like to spend on wages, services, fitments etc.
They more than make up for the low prices when they charge you thrice the price during the rest of the week, charging for fuctions, hotel rooms, meals and from income on rental and door fees from their nightclubs

yer man! · 05-09-2013 01:16PM

I was really supised to see the price of many craft beers on taps in bars in New England reaching for the $6.50 mark for a 16oz (473mL) pint. They taste amazing but I found them to be very expensive... The only cheap stuff is the bud and miller which is about $7 for a pitcher in a crappy bar.

rubadub · 05-09-2013 01:58PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'm not suggesting a €3 difference, the market conditions are. Of course the publican is entitled to charge for clean-up, premises etc in the same way a restaurant or cafe does, but selling a can for €5 which can be bought in your local Centra of €1.5/€2 is not going to fool anyone.

Dunno how you come up with this notion. Pubs are full of people paying €5-5.50 for bottles of heineken/bud which can be got for 75cent at times. These are the current market conditions, why would cans be so wildly different. People are already being "fooled".

My idea was to be making the same profit per ml including all costs, and highlighting the reason to the customer, shaming the breweries and not being bothered which the customer chooses. I am sick of seeing the end retailer getting the blame, when often its the manufacturer setting prices.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Remember that alcohol used to be much harder to get in prior years. No local Centra, no late night shopping etc. The market for their product has changed. It is now much easier to get and much cheaper. Why pay €5 for a pint in a bar when you can have a few of them at home for the same amount.

I never found any hassle getting drink 20 years ago. The price differential is huge though. Many do not acknowledge the off licence drinks have just remained the same or got cheaper, many just never copped it. 20 years ago the cheapo cans were £1, €1.27. I think bottles of bud or heineken were about £1.19.

You can see the guinness price index shows there was no wild increase in pint prices relative to "average weekly wage". People do not appreciate what good deals they get in off licences.
http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm

Geuze wrote: »

33cl bottle at 3.50 = 6 euro per pint.

Why would I pay 6 euro per pint for the same beer, in a bottle??

You might not, loads do, and pay far more than €6 per pint. A guy I know was slagging/commenting on me buying "posh fancy beer" as though people just do it to be "different". His bottle of corona was 5.30 or so and I was pointing out it was about €9 per pint. Instead of taking this in and questioning it he was saying stuff like "what?!? its a bottle, not a pint", -thats just how some people think, they don't question the status quo.

Takeaway pizza places have ridiculous margins compared to other takeaways, and likewise many have just grown up with this crazy difference and do not question it. Emporer's new clothes stuff. Spirits are the same.

A few I know were amazed when the calculations on longnecks is realized. I came in late to a pub and some of my fiends were getting 5x heineken longnecks for €17, came in a bucket of ice as a deal, and the lads were all amazed thinking it was great value. I got a 500ml of budvar, €5, which is cheaper per ml, stronger (more ingredients) and nicer, and not forced to buy 5.

techdiver wrote: »

Surely the fact that they are not reliant on Heineken etc means that their own product should be sold cheaper, but it's not.

Surely you do not expect them to base their prices solely what it costs them. They charge what the market will bear and what will maximise their profits. If I was a publican and found a magic bottle with free beer I would not give it away free.

Price Of Drink In Pubs

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