Ask permission before posting to Social Media?

MadsL · 29-08-2013 07:56PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd never have thought you so naïve MadsL...

Once you're in a public place you're fair game for photographers, professional or otherwise.

Is it naïve to ask for some courtesy?

We have seen where fair game gets us, it is too much to ask others to cop on?

Howard Juneau · 29-08-2013 07:57PM

YouTube is not your friend

freshpopcorn · 29-08-2013 08:04PM

gizmo555 wrote: »

The European Court of Human Rights (von Hannover-v-Germany) disagrees with you:

'The general public did not have a legitimate interest in knowing the Applicant’s [Princess Caroline of Monaco's] whereabouts or how she behaved generally in her private life even if she appeared in places that were not private. Everyone, including celebrities, had a “legitimate expectation” that his or her private life would be protected.'

Of course, we don't all have access to the same resources to vindicate our rights as the Princess does . . .

I only posted that because its just what I believe, I grew up in a small enough town and I was in my teenage years in the mid 2000's. Very few people had camera phones then. I came from a family who was well respected in the area and my siblings who were in their mid twenties and had jobs that would be effected my scandal. I knew if I did anything such as get drunk/take my top/pant off/ have underage sex/take drugs. It would have an effect on my family as well as myself because people will gossip about it. As I got older people started getting camera phones and social media began. I had the same attitude with this, I knew if I did anything embarrassing it could effect a lot of people. I still can go out have a drink/dance in a club/go to a camping music festival. All I do is behave and relies my actions do have consequences. This applies with and without photographic proof of the event taking place.

xzanti · 29-08-2013 08:06PM

"Evening english.. you do you mind terribly if I post on my Facebook this here snap of you blowing chunks all over yourself in the dance tent?"

Yep, it's failsafe.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:06PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Don’t see what the issue is, if you’re out in public, at a festival/night out, you could easily run into someone you work for/with or a mutual acquaintance. If no one took photos it would lower the risk a bit but isn’t going to remove it, so if you’re that worried about doing something that could get you in trouble just don’t do it.

I'm not too bothered about people taking photos for their own use, but I just don't get the "I must share this with the whole world" thing, especially without permission.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:14PM

I have to say though, I'm suprised no one has suggested I adopt a burqa

Foxtrol · 29-08-2013 08:17PM

MadsL wrote: »

I'm not too bothered about people taking photos for their own use, but I just don't get the "I must share this with the whole world" thing, especially without permission.

So you’re pretty much saying you’re ok for people to see you doing something (take a pic) but not going round telling other people (post it on facebook).

Taking your topless bathing analogy, even without pic would you be happy if your friend/colleague went back and told everyone in the office how you were mad for topless sunbathing and couldn’t keep your tits in?

I think it’s about picking and choosing when and who you’re with you do things that you mightn’t want other to find out about/see. Posting pictures is just the evolution of gossip however it's even easier to avoid because you actually have to have done the thing.

Howard Juneau · 29-08-2013 08:21PM

MadsL wrote: »

I have to say though, I'm suprised no one has suggested I adopt a burqa

Adoption process is too long, the Burquese don't like farming their kids out to western heathens

longhalloween · 29-08-2013 08:22PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If you behave yourself and show a bit of self respect for yourself you should have no problem.

But thats not always the case. one of my parents is a teacher and on an organised staff night out they were dancing in a local hotel. A parent (presumably) stood by the edge of the dance floor and started videoing them.

If that had of been me I would have taken his phone and cracked it of his head.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:24PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you’re pretty much saying you’re ok for people to see you doing something (take a pic) but not going round telling other people (post it on facebook).

Taking your topless bathing analogy, even without pic would you be happy if your friend/colleague went back and told everyone in the office how you were mad for topless sunbathing and couldn’t keep your tits in?

I think it’s about picking and choosing when and who you’re with you do things that you mightn’t want other to find out about/see. Posting pictures is just the evolution of gossip however it's even easier to avoid because you actually have to have done the thing.

I chose to do something in a particular social setting. That something eg: nudity might be entirely appropriate in that social setting. What I object to is the fact that the social setting boundaries are catapulted out into the wider world by social media and unthinking "look at me and my friends and other randomers" into a social setting where that might be inappropriate eg: work.

Social media is a sledgehammer breaking down the social boundary walls with which we quite sanely compartmentalise our lives. In the worst cases this causes stress, people to lose their jobs and even suicide.

Years back you would have been upset if the chemist had handed your holiday snaps to someone else to look at, now without a blink they are shared for all the world to see.

Howard Juneau · 29-08-2013 08:25PM

longhalloween wrote: »

But thats not always the case. one of my parents is a teacher and on an organised staff night out they were dancing in a local hotel. A parent (presumably) stood by the edge of the dance floor and started videoing them.

If that had of been me I would have taken his phone and cracked it of his head.

Probably wanted to show their kids that teachers can have fun too?

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:30PM

A few years ago (well more than I care to remember) I was a teacher.

There was a snow day, and the kids who had turned up to school were sent home.

A couple of younger teachers got a bollocking from the Head for walking home an having a snowball fight. A parent who recognised them complained to the Head.

These days, they would have been filmed and 'shamed' on social media.

Maximus Alexander · 29-08-2013 08:33PM

If you don't do things you are ashamed of in public, there's no problem.

Social media might end up making people think twice before they do stupid things, and that can't really be a bad thing.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:37PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If you don't do things you are ashamed of in public, there's no problem.

Social media might end up making people think twice before they do stupid things, and that can't really be a bad thing.

The point I'm making is that you end up having to defend a set of actions that are completely right in one social context, but that are then 'outed' to a more conservative social context.

For example, a person may have no problem attending a Fetish ball, but may not want photos of themselves in a fabulous outfit splashed across the workplace social media gossip circle.

Sad to say, that could end someone's professional career. they may not be ashamed of it, but having to deal with forcible outing imho is wrong.

P_1 · 29-08-2013 08:41PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If you don't do things you are ashamed of in public, there's no problem.

Social media might end up making people think twice before they do stupid things, and that can't really be a bad thing.

That's one side to the coin, the other side to it is that it can give complete strangers an unwanted view into your business.

For example, it seems nearly every pub/club/local rag employs somebody solely to walk about the place snapping photos to post on Facebook. Are you happy with having your face splashed all about the place when you're out for the evening?

Maximus Alexander · 29-08-2013 08:42PM

MadsL wrote: »

The point I'm making is that you end up having to defend a set of actions that are completely right in one social context, but that are then 'outed' to a more conservative social context.

For example, a person may have no problem attending a Fetish ball, but may not want photos of themselves in a fabulous outfit splashed across the workplace social media gossip circle.

Sad to say, that could end someone's professional career. they may not be ashamed of it, but having to deal with forcible outing imho is wrong.

I would agree that in some contexts people shouldn't do it. I think a fetish ball would be one of those, and I would assume that other attendees would all be in agreement on that. I'm not sure you could call that public though.

On the other hand, I don't think you should have any expectation of privacy in the street, or a pub, at a concert or in a field, for example. And that includes having your photo splashed across the internet if you do something stupid.

P_1 wrote: »

That's one side to the coin, the other side to it is that it can give complete strangers an unwanted view into your business.

For example, it seems nearly every pub/club/local rag employs somebody solely to walk about the place snapping photos to post on Facebook. Are you happy with having your face splashed all about the place when you're out for the evening?

Honestly? I'd be kind of flattered that I was interesting enough to have randomers photographing me. I don't really do anything in pubs that I'm ashamed of.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:47PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I would agree that in some contexts people shouldn't do it. I think a fetish ball would be one of those, and I would assume that other attendees would all be in agreement on that. I'm not sure you could call that public though.
On the other hand, I don't think you should have any expectation of privacy in the street, or a pub, at a concert or in a field, for example. And that includes having your photo splashed across the internet if you do something stupid.

Fetish events are often held in pubs.

Maximus Alexander · 29-08-2013 08:48PM

MadsL wrote: »

Fetish events are often held in pubs.

Well you probably shouldn't go to those ones then if you want to keep your fetish secret.

Surely that's common sense though, even before social media?

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:51PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Honestly? I'd be kind of flattered that I was interesting enough to have randomers photographing me. I don't really do anything in pubs that I'm ashamed of.

We keep hearing this word ashamed. There are many many counter-cultures that would blow most mainstream people's minds, never mind morals.

I'm a bit disappointed to find that they have no expectation of privacy at the point at which counter-culture touches the mainstream.

Does that make sense?

kerry4sam · 29-08-2013 08:52PM

MadsL wrote: »

Is this too much to ask? Without dwelling on any particular recent incidents and mindful of EP this weekend; why is it that people think they can post pictures of you to social media without your permission?

Could I make a plea that if your are at a party, gig, event, rave or festival and you see someone in an awesome outfit, or getting into a 'scrape', PLEASE ask their permission before posting to social media. Some people have professional lives outside of partying, and you may cause them great difficulty by posting without permission.

I remember a time when you used to ask people before taking a photo, now it seems that anyone is fair game if out in public.

Is it too much to ask to be thoughtful and just ASK?

I completely agree with this. Their was a video once posted of me up on youtube and the guy who filmed it was in Australia when it was brought to my attention (uploaded by someone here) & what a damn nuisance to get it taken down off youtube.

Happened/Uploaded during a time of background checks of me for a voluntary position here in the public sector. Crikey! Never mentioned to me so persume all okay, nothing shamful like, just pure messing but annoying to have it up there!

As said, nothing shameful but was uploaded without permission really ticked me off. Down now & Wiped but permission should be acquired before a stunt like that (ie uploading a video without permission)!

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:53PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Well you probably shouldn't go to those ones then if you want to keep your fetish secret. Surely that's common sense though, even before social media?

Hang on. If say, a teacher was photographed arriving at such an event, and the press went public with it, has he no expectation of privacy?

Maximus Alexander · 29-08-2013 08:55PM

MadsL wrote: »

We keep hearing this word ashamed. There are many many counter-cultures that would blow most mainstream people's minds, never mind morals.

I'm a bit disappointed to find that they have no expectation of privacy at the point at which counter-culture touches the mainstream.

Does that make sense?

Well you can replace "ashamed of" with "embarrassed about", "concerned about", "want to keep hidden" for the same effect.

It doesn't make sense to me, honestly, no. It is pretty clear that if you do something in a public arena, people can and will find out about it, talk about it, photograph it etc. This has always been the case and social media didn't make it that way. It just makes it more visual, pervasive and permanent.

I would absolutely maintain that if you are in public, and you do something that you feel could have negative effects on your life in the event that certain people found out, that is and has always been a bad plan.

Foxtrol · 29-08-2013 08:58PM

MadsL wrote: »

I chose to do something in a particular social setting. That something eg: nudity might be entirely appropriate in that social setting. What I object to is the fact that the social setting boundaries are catapulted out into the wider world by social media and unthinking "look at me and my friends and other randomers" into a social setting where that might be inappropriate eg: work.

Social media is a sledgehammer breaking down the social boundary walls with which we quite sanely compartmentalise our lives. In the worst cases this causes stress, people to lose their jobs and even suicide.

Years back you would have been upset if the chemist had handed your holiday snaps to someone else to look at, now without a blink they are shared for all the world to see.

You’ve totally ignored my points in relation to pics just being an extension of what was previously gossip.

In this situation you’ve clearly chosen the wrong social setting to do it in if what you’ve done manages to get back to your work colleagues, be it by picture or story. Once you do it in front of that friend/colleague then you’ve no control over what they do with that information, you’ve just got to hope that you’ve assessed the situation correctly which in that example you haven’t.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 08:58PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Well you can replace "ashamed of" with "embarrassed about", "concerned about", "want to keep hidden" for the same effect.

It doesn't make sense to me, honestly, no. It is pretty clear that if you do something in a public arena, people can and will find out about it, talk about it, photograph it etc. This has always been the case and social media didn't make it that way. It just makes it more visual, pervasive and permanent.

I would absolutely maintain that if you are in public, and you do something that you feel could have negative effects on your life in the event that certain people found out, that is and has always been a bad plan.

Remember when you were at school and the teacher used to say "Don't tell tales on people" - I think this kind of applies.

If you were to spot your male colleague who is not out at work kissing a guy outside Dragon, you'd be a complete douche to out him at work, wouldn't you?

Or is he fair game?

Maximus Alexander · 29-08-2013 09:03PM

MadsL wrote: »

Remember when you were at school and the teacher used to say "Don't tell tales on people" - I think this kind of applies.

If you were to spot your male colleague who is not out at work kissing a guy outside Dragon, you'd be a complete douche to out him at work, wouldn't you?

Or is he fair game?

I would be a douche to do that, yes, and I wouldn't do it.

But plenty of people are douches. Also, gossip exists. Do you think it is reasonable for him to expect that he can kiss guys outside Dragon and nobody will ever find out?

He is fair game in the sense that, if you're a douche, you have every right to photograph him or tell people all about what you saw. We are all aware of this though aren't we? So if you want to keep the fact that you kiss guys secret, don't do in public?

Foxtrol · 29-08-2013 09:04PM

MadsL wrote: »

The point I'm making is that you end up having to defend a set of actions that are completely right in one social context, but that are then 'outed' to a more conservative social context.

For example, a person may have no problem attending a Fetish ball, but may not want photos of themselves in a fabulous outfit splashed across the workplace social media gossip circle.

Sad to say, that could end someone's professional career. they may not be ashamed of it, but having to deal with forcible outing imho is wrong.

What happens if the son of the boss is working behind the bar at the event and tells him or a colleague is walking by as they’re going in? You’re blaming pictures like this is a new sort of peril of being found out even though your example with the teachers snowball fight shows the risk is already there.

MadsL · 29-08-2013 09:05PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

You’ve totally ignored my points in relation to pics just being an extension of what was previously gossip.

In this situation you’ve clearly chosen the wrong social setting to do it in if what you’ve done manages to get back to your work colleagues, be it by picture or story. Once you do it in front of that friend/colleague then you’ve no control over what they do with that information, you’ve just got to hope that you’ve assessed the situation correctly which in that example you haven’t.

Gossip isn't morally neutral in our society though is it? Sharing pictures doesn't have the same 'bitchy' element attached to it. In my view, sharing pics without someone's knowledge is just as bad as gossiping about them, yet at the moment we don't frown on it. I think we should.

P_1 · 29-08-2013 09:08PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I would be a douche to do that, yes, and I wouldn't do it.

But plenty of people are douches. Also, gossip exists. Do you think it is reasonable for him to expect that he can kiss guys outside Dragon and nobody will ever find out?

He is fair game in the sense that, if you're a douche, you have every right to photograph him or tell people all about what you saw. We are all aware of this though aren't we? So if you want to keep the fact that you kiss guys secret, don't do in public?

Sadly lots of people seem to enjoy fixating themselves on the comings and goings of others and I agree with you that gossip has moved and indeed mutated on social media. The reactions to some recent incidents involving young women and them committing 'immoral' acts illustrate that.

Normally I can't stand things that John Waters writes but I think he hit the nail fairly well with this effort.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-valley-of-the-squinting-windows-is-still-with-us-but-now-it-operates-on-social-media-1.1482109

Maximus Alexander · 29-08-2013 09:10PM

MadsL wrote: »

Gossip isn't morally neutral in our society though is it? Sharing pictures doesn't have the same 'bitchy' element attached to it. In my view, sharing pics without someone's knowledge is just as bad as gossiping about them, yet at the moment we don't frown on it. I think we should.

You are attaching a 'bitchy' element to something that in most cases is completely innocent though. Some people may deliberately put up photos of others that they know are embarrassing, but in most cases people are just putting up photos saying "Hey, look at our great night out".

These people may not realise that something you are doing in the photo is something you don't want publicised. They may not have the same hang-ups or fears about the same activity. And I think they may reasonably assume that if you were doing it in public, you don't mind people seeing it.

Foxtrol · 29-08-2013 09:16PM

MadsL wrote: »

Gossip isn't morally neutral in our society though is it? Sharing pictures doesn't have the same 'bitchy' element attached to it. In my view, sharing pics without someone's knowledge is just as bad as gossiping about them, yet at the moment we don't frown on it. I think we should.

Sharing pictures in a malicious way does have the same ‘bitchy’ element to it as malicious gossip, if I heard someone going round telling everyone in work how one of our colleagues was so smashed last night I might initially laugh like I probably also would if I saw a messy picture of them pop up on facebook but in both cases I’d judge the person who was sharing the info, especially if it’s in an indiscriminate manner, and be more careful around them in future.

Ask permission before posting to Social Media?

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