2013 Bord Gais U21Hurling Championship.

Ompala · 28-08-2013 03:49PM

Would it be possible to play the Under 21 in the same format as the minor championship?

Indie. · 28-08-2013 04:08PM

Ompala wrote: »

Would it be possible to play the Under 21 in the same format as the minor championship?

The minor championship is a disaster already. Also don't think it would be feasible to add more games to the u21 schedule.

28-08-2013 04:11PM

premierstone wrote: »

Seen the article in question and quite frankly Kevin Ryan is making a complete tit of himself, the decision to play all u21 hurling finals in Thurles was taken at congress in 2009, and Antrim like Galway who complained in 2010 they voted in favour of the concept, Galway actually spoke very positively of it at the time.

They had no problem coming to Thurles for the semi, so whats the difference now?? If they boycott the final I hope they're fcuked out for the forseeable future although from reading the artice this seems to be Ryan going off on a solo and there does'nt seem to be any one else in Antrim calling for the same.

Its like Kerry refusing to play Dublin in Croker the weekend it makes zero sense.

Galway had good reason to complain in 2010, if Tipp make the final they shouldn't get home advantage and even a semi involving them should be moved to an alternative venue.
Antrim complaining about playing Clare there is down right ridicules and is in no way similar.

It's nothing like Dublin and Croke Park.

For starters they let Dublin play in Croker in Leinster because of the crowds, a million in the county means playing games at Parnell or elsewhere would cost the organisation millions.
There's also the fact that Dublin don't use Croke Park for league games nor do they have free reign to train in HQ.

Tipp are based on Thurles and can use the pitch whenever they want, playing a U21 final involving Tipp in Thurles is just down right ludicrous and any county would have complained in 2010.

If Thurles was HQ and Tipp had to use an alternative venue for league and training then I don't think anyone would have much issue with them playing there in an AI semi final(as Dublin will in Croke Park).

Clare's only advantage in Thurles is the commute compared to Antrim but those are the breaks, it's hardly being played in Ennis and comparable to 2010.

premierstone · 28-08-2013 04:33PM

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Galway had good reason to complain in 2010, if Tipp make the final they shouldn't get home advantage and even a semi involving them should be moved to an alternative venue.
Antrim complaining about playing Clare there is down right ridicules and is in no way similar.

It's nothing like Dublin and Croke Park.

For starters they let Dublin play in Croker in Leinster because of the crowds, a million in the county means playing games at Parnell or elsewhere would cost the organisation millions.
There's also the fact that Dublin don't use Croke Park for league games nor do they have free reign to train in HQ.

Tipp are based on Thurles and can use the pitch whenever they want, playing a U21 final involving Tipp in Thurles is just down right ludicrous and any county would have complained in 2010.

If Thurles was HQ and Tipp had to use an alternative venue for league and training then I don't think anyone would have much issue with them playing there in an AI semi final(as Dublin will in Croke Park).

Clare's only advantage in Thurles is the commute compared to Antrim but those are the breaks, it's hardly being played in Ennis and comparable to 2010.

Why did every single county at congress vote in favour of using Thurles as the home of the U21 final?? Surely all those 'concerns' Galway had 10 months later were valid then??

And if you want to talk about ludicrous advantages all you have to do is look at the provincial make up of the Minor, U21, and Intermediate championships, also I don't recall Antrim jumping to Galways support in 2010?? But now suddenly they are in a final its a huge problem?

Tipperary can not use Semple Stadium whenever they like btw and their training field is Dr Morris Park but this isn't about Tipp anyway.

premierstone · 28-08-2013 04:36PM

Ompala wrote: »

Would it be possible to play the Under 21 in the same format as the minor championship?

If any changes need to be made it is to reduce the no of games in the minor. Minor and U21 grades are a little outdated IMO, too much of an overlap between U21 and senior panels presently as players are being promoted to senior at a younger age.

Ompala · 28-08-2013 06:22PM

Indie. wrote: »

The minor championship is a disaster already. Also don't think it would be feasible to add more games to the u21 schedule.

premierstone wrote: »

If any changes need to be made it is to reduce the no of games in the minor. Minor and U21 grades are a little outdated IMO, too much of an overlap between U21 and senior panels presently as players are being promoted to senior at a younger age.

Is there really too many games in the minor championship? Guess I'm only thinking from a Munster perspective. Only advantage I can think with doing it would be to give beaten provincial finalists a second chance, think they do something like this for schools/colleges hurling e.g Harty Cup? Main issue I guess really is burnout as others mentioned already

Browney7 · 28-08-2013 07:22PM

Read years ago a guy saying that minor should be raised to under 19 and to get rid of under 21. Thought it was mad at the time but now with the fairly large overlap between senior and under 21 teams this might have some merit at intercounty level at least.

I think a lot of clubs struggle to fill under 21 teams now as there seems to be a large drop off when lads leave to go to college etc.

sasol · 28-08-2013 08:22PM

I really don't understand these sporadic calls to get rid of U21 or raise minor to U19.

Or to base the U21 on the current minor format.

Why would you do any of this? The term - if it's not broken, don't fix it - springs to mind.

Over the past few years, U21 has probably produced the best and most exciting games of hurling imaginable.

Clare v Galway 2009
Tipp v Cork 2010
Cork v Limerick 2011
were all classics. I'm sure there were many more, but these spring to mind.

It is straight knock out. This adds to the aura of the competition.

28-08-2013 08:44PM

premierstone wrote: »

Why did every single county at congress vote in favour of using Thurles as the home of the U21 final?? Surely all those 'concerns' Galway had 10 months later were valid then??

And if you want to talk about ludicrous advantages all you have to do is look at the provincial make up of the Minor, U21, and Intermediate championships, also I don't recall Antrim jumping to Galways support in 2010?? But now suddenly they are in a final its a huge problem?

Tipperary can not use Semple Stadium whenever they like btw and their training field is Dr Morris Park but this isn't about Tipp anyway.

I don't know why they voted for it, frankly I'm not concerned with the details but anyone with a brain would accept that a county shouldn't get home advantage for a final(and again I say Dublin-HQ is far different than Thurles-Tipp)

All I said was Antrim are being ridicules, and you're comparison to Galway/Tipp 2010 wasn't even in the same ball park, Antrim are complaining that Clare is in the same PROVINCE as Thurles.
A tad different than the final being on in Ennis(which is what a comparison to 2010 would be).

Maybe they chose not to use it a lot, but I have no doubt that Tipp can train in Semple if they wish(as evidenced by the picture above).
Galway can train in Pearse(but for logistics often chose Athenry etc) and Kilkenny can train in Nowlan so don't see why Tipp couldn't ask their own board for use of the ground in prep for upcoming games.
That makes it their home ground and that's why the 2010 game shouldn't have been played there.

Mountainlad · 28-08-2013 09:09PM

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I don't know why they voted for it, frankly I'm not concerned with the details but anyone with a brain would accept that a county shouldn't get home advantage for a final(and again I say Dublin-HQ is far different than Thurles-Tipp)

All I said was Antrim are being ridicules, and you're comparison to Galway/Tipp 2010 wasn't even in the same ball park, Antrim are complaining that Clare is in the same PROVINCE as Thurles.
A tad different than the final being on in Ennis(which is what a comparison to 2010 would be).

Maybe they chose not to use it a lot, but I have no doubt that Tipp can train in Semple if they wish(as evidenced by the picture above).
Galway can train in Pearse(but for logistics often chose Athenry etc) and Kilkenny can train in Nowlan so don't see why Tipp couldn't ask their own board for use of the ground in prep for upcoming games.
That makes it their home ground and that's why the 2010 game shouldn't have been played there.

Croke Park is easily as much of an advantage to Dublin as Thurles for Tipp. It's really not that different at all if you actually just consider each as advantages.

Also, I hope your acknowledging that the game in 2010 could have been played anywhere in Galway and they still would have been bet out the gate.

keeponhurling · 28-08-2013 11:07PM

Maybe in 2010 they were thinking that Thurles was close to the centre of the hurling counties, never thinking that Antrim would make it to a final.

The fact is that Thurles is far closer to Clare than Antrim, and there are plenty suitable venues located about half way between the two counties.

There might be more local interest too if it was played somewhere that doesn't get so many top class hurling games, like Cavan, Navan or somewhere like that

spacetrap · 29-08-2013 12:59AM

keeponhurling wrote: »

Maybe in 2010 they were thinking that Thurles was close to the centre of the hurling counties, never thinking that Antrim would make it to a final.

The fact is that Thurles is far closer to Clare than Antrim, and there are plenty suitable venues located about half way between the two counties.

There might be more local interest too if it was played somewhere that doesn't get so many top class hurling games, like Cavan, Navan or somewhere like that

Have you ever driven from Ennis to Cavan the roads are ****e

spacetrap · 29-08-2013 01:04AM

Lads dont forget that both Kildare and Kerry play before this game so would Kerry be expected to travel up North as well if Antrim get their way . The final was and is set for Thurles all counties knew this . I believe that whats happening here is that Antrim would prefer to keep getting praise for beating Wexford and not to play and run the risk of a hammering which would set them back by years.

clarenman · 29-08-2013 01:06AM

u21 finals will always be played in thurles while bord gais are sponsoring them as they are the current energy providers to semple stadium
.............its all politics

Mountainlad · 29-08-2013 01:07AM

spacetrap wrote: »

Lads dont forget that both Kildare and Kerry play before this game so would Kerry be expected to travel up North as well if Antrim get their way . The final was and is set for Thurles all counties knew this . I believe that whats happening here is that Antrim would prefer to keep getting praise for beating Wexford and not to play and run the risk of a hammering which would set them back by years.

Set thme back how? It's not exactly like they're making great strides here, they barely got together a team. This is not the result of years of massive effort and development coming to the for.

spacetrap · 29-08-2013 01:12AM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Set thme back how? It's not exactly like they're making great strides here, they barely got together a team. This is not the result of years of massive effort and development coming to the for.

Their set up is a joke as we know by now but they have some nice hurlers who between their county boards lack of interest and a bad beating in the final might make the lads decide to stop playing for their county which would be a loss and would indeed set them back years

Martin567 · 29-08-2013 07:32AM

clarenman wrote: »

u21 finals will always be played in thurles while bord gais are sponsoring them as they are the current energy providers to semple stadium
.............its all politics

The venue for the U21 final needs to be revisited again at Congress. It's happened many times before that delegates blindly vote for something with no thought as to the consequences of their decision.

At the very least, an exception needs to be made that Thurles will not be the venue if Tipperary are involved. As far as everyone in Kilkenny is concerned, the next time ourselves and Tipp meet in an U21 final (whether next year or in 20 years) that match will be held in Nowlan Park.

angelfire9 · 29-08-2013 11:18AM

AFAIK there is already an exception in play for a final involving Tipperary

I can't understand all the people quoting the rule book saying "it can't be moved tough luck Antrim"
Surely it would be better for hurling to have the game in Tullamore (Offaly people will probably buy a few tickets) or Portlaoise as Laois hurling is in the developmental stage
6 of one half a dozen of the other for Clare people its only probably 30 mins more in the car to Portlaoise than it would be to Thurles and Clare will travel regardless of venue it's an All Ireland we have a great chance of winning

marco_polo · 29-08-2013 12:04PM

angelfire9 wrote: »

AFAIK there is already an exception in play for a final involving Tipperary

I can't understand all the people quoting the rule book saying "it can't be moved tough luck Antrim"
Surely it would be better for hurling to have the game in Tullamore (Offaly people will probably buy a few tickets) or Portlaoise as Laois hurling is in the developmental stage
6 of one half a dozen of the other for Clare people its only probably 30 mins more in the car to Portlaoise than it would be to Thurles and Clare will travel regardless of venue it's an All Ireland we have a great chance of winning

I wouldn't have a problem with it being moved, and have some sympathy for the players and fans, but their manager Kevin Ryan was going on about moving it to Breffni Park or somewhere like that.

I must admit I am also slightly amused by the Antrim county board going on about how unfair it is , considering the didn't give a **** about the players less than a week ago by ordering a round of football championship game the day before the semi final, ensuring that a panel of only 19 players was available.

Mountainlad · 29-08-2013 12:29PM

spacetrap wrote: »

Their set up is a joke as we know by now but they have some nice hurlers who between their county boards lack of interest and a bad beating in the final might make the lads decide to stop playing for their county which would be a loss and would indeed set them back years

If they were to achieve anything, this is the pinnacle for them. Until Antrim sort out the hurling mess up their than they can't really be set back years.

I would not be surprised if a lot of these lads just packed it in at inter county level deeming the sacrifice to not be worth it and focused on their clubs instead.

Warper · 29-08-2013 12:45PM

The GAA should at least change the throw-in time from 5.00 pm. Play it around 3.30 pm.

premierstone · 29-08-2013 01:26PM

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I don't know why they voted for it, frankly I'm not concerned with the details but anyone with a brain would accept that a county shouldn't get home advantage for a final(and again I say Dublin-HQ is far different than Thurles-Tipp)

All I said was Antrim are being ridicules, and you're comparison to Galway/Tipp 2010 wasn't even in the same ball park, Antrim are complaining that Clare is in the same PROVINCE as Thurles.

I didnt make the comparison, Kevin Ryan did in he's mad rant, you obviously have't even read the article :rolleyes:

Martin567 wrote: »

At the very least, an exception needs to be made that Thurles will not be the venue if Tipperary are involved. As far as everyone in Kilkenny is concerned, the next time ourselves and Tipp meet in an U21 final (whether next year or in 20 years) that match will be held in Nowlan Park.

This provision was included in 2011, again someone commenting on something without knowing what they are talking about :rolleyes: and good to know you are in a position to speak for ''everyone in Kilkenny''

marco_polo wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with it being moved, and have some sympathy for the players and fans, but their manager Kevin Ryan was going on about moving it to Breffni Park or somewhere like that.

I must admit I am also slightly amused by the Antrim county board going on about how unfair it is , considering the didn't give a **** about the players less than a week ago by ordering a round of football championship game the day before the semi final, ensuring that a panel of only 19 players was available.

Couldn't agree more, this is a manager who was only apointed to the U21 job four weeks previous to the Semifinal, had 6 training sesions, the highest turn out was 14 and then their County Board fixed Senior Football games at the same time and now he is crying that Liam O'Neill and the GAA are trying to hold back the weaker counties :rolleyes: really beginging to wonder if this lad is the full shilling at all.

angelfire9 · 29-08-2013 01:48PM

premierstone wrote: »

I didnt make the comparison, Kevin Ryan did in he's mad rant, you obviously have't even read the article :rolleyes:

This provision was included in 2011, again someone commenting on something without knowing what they are talking about :rolleyes: and good to know you are in a position to speak for ''everyone in Kilkenny''

Couldn't agree more, this is a manager who was only apointed to the U21 job four weeks previous to the Semifinal, had 6 training sesions, the highest turn out was 14 and then their County Board fixed Senior Football games at the same time and now he is crying that Liam O'Neill and the GAA are trying to hold back the weaker counties :rolleyes: really beginging to wonder if this lad is the full shilling at all.

Yeah I have to agree with you there

A certain Clare sports journalist is calling for the game to be moved to casement park (which is in Belfast for those that don't know) I think that's completely nuts myself :rolleyes:

VONSHIRACH · 29-08-2013 02:33PM

I think its silly for the Antrim manager to be talking of boycotting the final. Granted its 200km or so more travelling for Antrim, but thats where the final is. They are in an u21 hurling final in Semple Stadium, it doesn't get any better than this for any u21 hurler, regardless of what county he is from. Hundreds of guys who exited during the competition would love to be preparing for the final in Semple.

29-08-2013 02:56PM

premierstone wrote: »

I didnt make the comparison, Kevin Ryan did in he's mad rant, you obviously have't even read the article :rolleyes:

For starters nobody linked the article but in the version I read from the Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/antrim-manager-choice-of-venue-a-disgrace-1.1508165

By all means show me there where he said it's the same as Dublin/Kerry or Galway/Tipp=Antrim/Clare

Secondly you didn't attribute that comment to Kevin Ryan, YOU wrote it as your opinion.

the decision to play all u21 hurling finals in Thurles was taken at congress in 2009, and Antrim like Galway who complained in 2010 they voted in favour of the concept, Galway actually spoke very positively of it at the time.

Its like Kerry refusing to play Dublin in Croker the weekend it makes zero sense.

That above are your opinions. You made two comparisons that I commented on.
So not sure what exactly you're trying to attribute to Kevin Ryan in terms of making a comparison as he made no comparisons in any article I've read....:rolleyes: right back at ya

premierstone · 29-08-2013 03:18PM

gilberto_eire wrote: »

For starters nobody linked the article but in the version I read from the Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/antrim-manager-choice-of-venue-a-disgrace-1.1508165

By all means show me there where he said it's the same as Dublin/Kerry or Galway/Tipp=Antrim/Clare

Secondly you didn't attribute that comment to Kevin Ryan, YOU wrote it as your opinion.

So not sure what exactly you're trying to attribute to Kevin Ryan in terms of making a comparison as he made no comparisons in any article I've read....:rolleyes: right back at ya

The article I read was in the Examiner and he specifically mentioned Galway in 2010 and said that Galway were insane to go to Thurles, admittedly the comment on Kerry v Dublin was my own reference point and I accept it has very little similarity to Antrim v Clare.

brilliantboy · 29-08-2013 04:31PM

I have a feeling all they're going to do is make the Clare players mad and get the hiding of their lives

keeponhurling · 09-09-2013 10:15PM

This thread has been quiet for a while, for obvious reasons.

Final on this Saturday in Thurles - Clare v Antrim.

Antrim are huge underdogs, is there any chance they could pull off another huge upset? They took their scores well v Wexford.
And how distracted will the senior lads from the Clare team be, McInerney, Galvin, Collins and Kelly would all be expected to start. Is a game like this just what they need to keep their minds off the senior, or is just further draining them after a long year?

I think Clare will win, and as per the semi final v Galway, the senior lads will be taken off once the game is safe.
Back to back U21 wins would be a very fine achievement.

premierstone · 10-09-2013 12:22PM

keeponhurling wrote: »

This thread has been quiet for a while, for obvious reasons.

Final on this Saturday in Thurles - Clare v Antrim.

Antrim are huge underdogs, is there any chance they could pull off another huge upset? They took their scores well v Wexford.
And how distracted will the senior lads from the Clare team be, McInerney, Galvin, Collins and Kelly would all be expected to start. Is a game like this just what they need to keep their minds off the senior, or is just further draining them after a long year?

I think Clare will win, and as per the semi final v Galway, the senior lads will be taken off once the game is safe.
Back to back U21 wins would be a very fine achievement.

Clare should win very comfortably, but the amount of there U21's that were falling around Coppers last Sunday night was alarming and you would have to question if they are in the right frame of mind for this, they obviously view it as a formality, that said they are probably right.

brilliantboy · 10-09-2013 12:31PM

premierstone wrote: »

Clare should win very comfortably, but the amount of there U21's that were falling around Coppers last Sunday night was alarming and you would have to question if they are in the right frame of mind for this, they obviously view it as a formality, that said they are probably right.

How many of the lads exactly were "falling around Coppers", and care to name them? :rolleyes:

2013 Bord Gais U21Hurling Championship.

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