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Dodgy Degrees...

2

Comments

  • #32
    Sunglasses Ron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Sunglasses Ron


    I read a Daily Mail article where the journo said someone flow somewhere, as in "her father flow to Peru after receiving the news".

    Never mind a journalism degree, I'm not entirely sure the reporters and staff at the Indo and the DM got above a C in their junior cert English sometimes. While you could excuse it once in blue moon, you could have a nightly drinking game with bollocks from either paper as the rule maker.


  • #33
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Putting a qualification on your CV will only get you to the interview stage.
    I'm pretty sure any interviewer worth a dam would be able to spot if someone has a qualification or not after the interview.


  • #34
    Little Acorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    Would a lot of employers not ask you for a transcript of your results?
    How common would that be? (I'm still in college and have just so far done jobs where a degree hasn't been needed)


  • #35
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Sunglasses Ron wrote: »
    I read a Daily Mail article* where the journo said someone flow somewhere, as in "her father flow to Peru after receiving the news".

    Never mind a journalism degree, I'm not entirely sure the reporters and staff at the Indo and the DM got above a C in their junior cert English sometimes. While you could excuse it once in blue moon, you could have a nightly drinking game with bollocks from either paper as the rule maker.


    * I stopped taking the post seriously here :D

    Whats atari jaguar????


  • #36
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Not only did I lie about my degree, I told them I had just completed my masters! Said I had submitted the thesis and was awaiting the result.
    I got the job (my first) and never looked back. Twas about 15 years ago.
    HR are usually too useless to come looking for proof after you're hired.

    Now I know that experience is way more important than academic theory.

    They key thing when I am interviewing is making sure that the candidate will "fit in" i.e. be a team player and fit in with the company culture.


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  • #37
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    kupus wrote: »
    If they lied about getting a degree, what else have they lied about. Simple really.

    everyone lies, everyone!


  • #38
    Nailz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭Nailz


    If I'd already employed them, and they turned out to be really good at their job then I'd consider holding onto them; after all, it's their skills your after, isn't it? If they have the skills, just not the piece of paper that says they have the skills, what odds.

    Like Suits...


  • #39
    JohnMearsheimer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭JohnMearsheimer


    smetol wrote: »
    The most funniest are CV's of Indian and Pakistani nationals...everyone has MBA...and worked as Accounts Assistant back home.Really suspicious.

    I shared a flat with 7 Indians when I was doing my masters in the UK. They were all studying for MBAs. Our block was a postrad block with mostly Indians and Pakistanis all doing MBAs. My flatmate told me about three quarters of his MBA class were either Indian or Pakistani and a UK education, especially an MBA, was considered very valuable back home. It was a big money spinner for the college, as non-EU nationals they were all paying £15,000 each in tuition fees alone.


  • #40
    JohnnyCarmello
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭JohnnyCarmello


    I'd fire them, you'd have to sure. Fraud is fraud.
    There's someone more qualified, more deserving, and more honest out there that should have gotten the job.


  • #41
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Recently I found out that the degree I got from the University of Life was actually fake.

    Just as well I have still have my Higher Diploma from the School of Hard Knocks or else I'd never get a job again.


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  • #42
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SweepTheLeg wrote: »
    Another spin to it. If you hired said person and they were perfect at their job. Would you fire them if you found out they lied about their qualifications?
    Yes. He would be out the door so fast his head would spin.


  • #43
    minotour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭minotour


    JohnnyCarmello wrote: »
    I'd fire them, you'd have to sure. Fraud is fraud.
    There's someone more qualified, more deserving, and more honest out there that should have gotten the job.

    thereby inferring you would have initially hired them. see what you did there?


  • #44
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

    Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!


  • #45
    MOC88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭MOC88


    CatGur wrote: »
    This would be fine, but if you said you had a degree from MIT just like 29 Nobel prize winners, 30% of US astronauts as well as Kofi Annan when in face you just completed an online course without assessment then its been deceptive....

    those courses any good btw?

    The courses are very good - IT especially.

    They've videos of their actual lectures - exams to take etc.


  • #46
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

    Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!
    This ladies and gentlemen is the attitude that fúcked up the country.


  • #47
    JohnnyCarmello
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭JohnnyCarmello


    minotour wrote: »
    thereby inferring you would have initially hired them. see what you did there?

    meant to quote this
    SweepTheLeg wrote: »
    Another spin to it. If you hired said person and they were perfect at their job. Would you fire them if you found out they lied about their qualifications?

    obviously, if i found out during the recruitment process, they'd be knocked straight off the list.


  • #48
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    This ladies and gentlemen is the attitude that fúcked up the country.

    Can you explain how?


  • #49
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

    Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!

    It shows that youre a liar. Which means you cant be trusted.


  • #50
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    It shows that youre a liar. Which means you cant be trusted.

    Your parents lied to you about Santa Cause, can they be trusted?


  • #51
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Your parents lied to you about Santa Cause, can they be trusted?

    No, but letting an old man sneak in my room at night would be worse.


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  • #52
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Double post.


  • #53
    Shiny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭Shiny


    SweepTheLeg wrote: »
    Another spin to it. If you hired said person and they were perfect at their job. Would you fire them if you found out they lied about their qualifications?

    If they were perfect for the job I would, as the employer, now have a perfect excuse to slash their wages.


  • #54
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Can you explain how?
    The cute auld hoor who lies, cheats and swidlles his way to the top then continues to run the company into the ground because he doesn't have a qualification to his name. That's how.

    If I were an employer and someone did that to me not only would he be out the door I'd do my best to make sure no one else hired him either.


  • #55
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    CatGur wrote: »
    What if you found out much later they had lied?

    Out the door so fast they'll be going thru it.
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

    Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!

    HorseSh1it of the highest order.

    Simple rule to follow. If they lie about one thing, they will lie about another.
    Anyway should you be called for an interview, good interviewers will spot a fake as soon as they walk in.


  • #56
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The cute auld hoor who lies, cheats and swidlles his way to the top then continues to run the company into the ground because he doesn't have a qualification to his name. That's how.

    If I were an employer and someone did that to me not only would he be out the door I'd do my best to make sure no one else hired him either.

    Oh right, you must be posting from tiny town.


  • #57
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Oh right, you must be posting from tiny town.
    What ever you think but you'll never get ahead by lying, eventually you will be caught.


  • #58
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Little Acorn wrote: »
    Would a lot of employers not ask you for a transcript of your results?
    How common would that be? (I'm still in college and have just so far done jobs where a degree hasn't been needed)

    I am not sure that all Irish employers check nowadays but they certainly didn't bother in the 1990s. I reckon US employers would check more but not all of them.
    I put a non-existent masters on my 1st CV and it helped me get my 1st job. I have had 4 jobs since then so my academic qualifications are not important at all now. I would be quite surprised if a prospective employer started quizzing me on my degree/masters results during an interview now.


  • #59
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Experience does matter more imo, but lying about your degree shows serious dishonesty that i wouldnt hire someone who did it


  • #60
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Despite the fact that he left under a cloud, I've heard it said that Gary Santry was actually an excellent lecturer. Apparently, he was so good that Smurfit School of Business gave him an award. They did some research into his credentials when he applied for more senior positions. UCD changed hiring procedures after the Santry incident.
    Mr Gary Santry engaged in deception at all stages of his seeking appointment with the Department of Banking and Finance, during the process of his recruitment as a temporary lecturer in 1997 and throughout the process of his applying for permanent appointment both as a College Lecturer and as a Professor in 2001. This deception included falsification of his qualifications and fabrication of his references.

    Link
    an equally high-profile CV cheat was allowed to quietly leave the country rather than face the rigour of the law. There were red faces at University College Dublin when it emerged that a senior lecturer with its Business School had been teaching there for four years on bogus qualifications.


    To make matters worse, shortly before he was found out, American Gary Santry had been presented by UCD with an award for his outstanding service to the college. He'd contributed to the Business School being ranked the seventh best in Europe by the Financial Times, and his exposure raised fears that this prestige position might be downgraded, damaging the college's ability to attract high-paying foreign students.


    Santry had landed the top post by claiming to hold a Masters in Business Administration from Notre Dame and a PhD from the Southern Methodist University in Texas. His exposure also raised fears that students paying large annual fees would sue UCD for failing to keep its end of the bargain to provide highly qualified lecturers. The Santry incident prompted reforms at UCD, ending a situation where senior academics were making appointments on the basis of unchecked CVs and without conducting any formal job interviews.


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  • #61
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    I can't go into details for obvious reasons but....

    I lied through my teeth on my CV and have had a successful career since. I was an office worker who noticed that the higher-ups didn't seem to have any redeeming qualities. Middle managers who direct questions back and forth seem to add little value.

    But for some reason, they get paid more than the people who actually *do* the work. Now, somewhere, high up the chain, someone needs to make important decisions - but that's not middle managers.

    I didn't have an MBA or a post-graduate degree and I didn't have any experience as a manager.

    Anyway, I got sick of it. And when I moved and was looking for new jobs - I applied for TWO types of jobs with two different CVs. One for the position I had been doing (and that I am qualified) and another for the position I felt I could do (with a bunch of lies). I had a certain amount of time to find a job, or else I would have ended up moving, leaving my wife behind....so I was desperate (not that it should excuse my lying).

    I know they didn't verify my credentials because I created a degree and I lied about my last four years of work experience. I said that I was promoted to management three years earlier and had been managing a team of six.

    It started as a joke, honestly. But I got positive feedback, some phone interviews and finally did an actual interview. As it got more serious, I did some homework, read some management books, learned some buzzwords and made up some more details about my past team and my past job.

    I also adopted a persona. For example - I schedule 'casual conversations' to force me to remain social. I keep notes on my coworkers because I used to struggle to remember names or tid-bits about them. I also toned back my humour (because I'm kind of silly) and I make sure to always be more formal that I need to be.

    In business, at least for middle manager types, image is more important than substance. A worker in T-shirt and jeans who does great stuff, but reports to me is viewed as less important than me in business casual. I use a fancy pen and make sure I have a leather portfolio with me instead of a notebook.

    I really, really, really wish I were joking. But I'm not.

    Having said all that, there is a lot of value in having a decent manager. I think I am a decent manager. The first six weeks were kind of overwhelming, now I'm doing fine. I got a big fat raise via my lying, but I actually hate my job. My day is about 5 hours of meetings and sometimes, I struggle with not jabbing my pen into my eye.


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