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Dodgy Degrees...

CatGur

Have you ever looked at a CV and contacted a college/uni to confirm the degree is genuine?

Some unis offer online verification but in reality I dont think HR are checking peoples credentials.

It gets my goat to see some people plugging themselves as been Professor or Doctor of something when in fact they have not done anything academic to deserve this. Ditto for the UK and the titles they use.

Interestingly enough I had a look at this http://wwwdev.gcd.ie/griffith-college-president-honoured/

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/34519-griffith-college-founder-is

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/26492-irish-academic-awarded-hono

"Diarmuid Hegarty, president of Griffith College, this week joined a prestigious list of academics and Nobel Prize winners to be awarded an Honorary Professorship by the Beijing Information, Science and Technology University (BISTU) in China."

Doing some googling we can see that the article is PR spin. John Nash and Edmund Phelps (nobel prize winners) never received such awards from this university... They did however receive awards from BTBU, a completely different university which our own Michael Murphy from UCC was in fact awarded an honorary professorship. http://english.btbu.edu.cn/alumnifriends/guesthonoraryprofessors/
Talk about bending the truth!

If you had just interviewed someone for a post and they blatantly lied or misrepresented themselves would you still give them job? I would rather be Mr. X then Professor of nothing!:rolleyes:

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Sunglasses Ron

I read a Daily Mail article where the journo said someone flow somewhere, as in "her father flow to Peru after receiving the news".

Never mind a journalism degree, I'm not entirely sure the reporters and staff at the Indo and the DM got above a C in their junior cert English sometimes. While you could excuse it once in blue moon, you could have a nightly drinking game with bollocks from either paper as the rule maker.

BrokenArrows

Putting a qualification on your CV will only get you to the interview stage.
I'm pretty sure any interviewer worth a dam would be able to spot if someone has a qualification or not after the interview.

Little Acorn

Would a lot of employers not ask you for a transcript of your results?
How common would that be? (I'm still in college and have just so far done jobs where a degree hasn't been needed)

OldNotWIse

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I read a Daily Mail article* where the journo said someone flow somewhere, as in "her father flow to Peru after receiving the news".

Never mind a journalism degree, I'm not entirely sure the reporters and staff at the Indo and the DM got above a C in their junior cert English sometimes. While you could excuse it once in blue moon, you could have a nightly drinking game with bollocks from either paper as the rule maker.

* I stopped taking the post seriously here

Whats atari jaguar????

Birroc

Not only did I lie about my degree, I told them I had just completed my masters! Said I had submitted the thesis and was awaiting the result.
I got the job (my first) and never looked back. Twas about 15 years ago.
HR are usually too useless to come looking for proof after you're hired.

Now I know that experience is way more important than academic theory.

They key thing when I am interviewing is making sure that the candidate will "fit in" i.e. be a team player and fit in with the company culture.

Fighting Irish

kupus wrote: »

If they lied about getting a degree, what else have they lied about. Simple really.

everyone lies, everyone!

Nailz

If I'd already employed them, and they turned out to be really good at their job then I'd consider holding onto them; after all, it's their skills your after, isn't it? If they have the skills, just not the piece of paper that says they have the skills, what odds.

Like Suits...

JohnMearsheimer

smetol wrote: »

The most funniest are CV's of Indian and Pakistani nationals...everyone has MBA...and worked as Accounts Assistant back home.Really suspicious.

I shared a flat with 7 Indians when I was doing my masters in the UK. They were all studying for MBAs. Our block was a postrad block with mostly Indians and Pakistanis all doing MBAs. My flatmate told me about three quarters of his MBA class were either Indian or Pakistani and a UK education, especially an MBA, was considered very valuable back home. It was a big money spinner for the college, as non-EU nationals they were all paying £15,000 each in tuition fees alone.

JohnnyCarmello

I'd fire them, you'd have to sure. Fraud is fraud.
There's someone more qualified, more deserving, and more honest out there that should have gotten the job.

AnonoBoy

Recently I found out that the degree I got from the University of Life was actually fake.

Just as well I have still have my Higher Diploma from the School of Hard Knocks or else I'd never get a job again.

Iwasfrozen

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Another spin to it. If you hired said person and they were perfect at their job. Would you fire them if you found out they lied about their qualifications?

Yes. He would be out the door so fast his head would spin.

minotour

JohnnyCarmello wrote: »

I'd fire them, you'd have to sure. Fraud is fraud.
There's someone more qualified, more deserving, and more honest out there that should have gotten the job.

thereby inferring you would have initially hired them. see what you did there?

Oranage2

If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!

MOC88

CatGur wrote: »

This would be fine, but if you said you had a degree from MIT just like 29 Nobel prize winners, 30% of US astronauts as well as Kofi Annan when in face you just completed an online course without assessment then its been deceptive....

those courses any good btw?

The courses are very good - IT especially.

They've videos of their actual lectures - exams to take etc.

Iwasfrozen

Oranage2 wrote: »

If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!

This ladies and gentlemen is the attitude that fúcked up the country.

JohnnyCarmello

minotour wrote: »

thereby inferring you would have initially hired them. see what you did there?

meant to quote this

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Another spin to it. If you hired said person and they were perfect at their job. Would you fire them if you found out they lied about their qualifications?

obviously, if i found out during the recruitment process, they'd be knocked straight off the list.

Oranage2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This ladies and gentlemen is the attitude that fúcked up the country.

Can you explain how?

Potatoeman

Oranage2 wrote: »

If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!

It shows that youre a liar. Which means you cant be trusted.

Oranage2

Potatoeman wrote: »

It shows that youre a liar. Which means you cant be trusted.

Your parents lied to you about Santa Cause, can they be trusted?

Potatoeman

Oranage2 wrote: »

Your parents lied to you about Santa Cause, can they be trusted?

No, but letting an old man sneak in my room at night would be worse.

Potatoeman

Double post.

Shiny

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Another spin to it. If you hired said person and they were perfect at their job. Would you fire them if you found out they lied about their qualifications?

If they were perfect for the job I would, as the employer, now have a perfect excuse to slash their wages.

Iwasfrozen

Oranage2 wrote: »

Can you explain how?

The cute auld hoor who lies, cheats and swidlles his way to the top then continues to run the company into the ground because he doesn't have a qualification to his name. That's how.

If I were an employer and someone did that to me not only would he be out the door I'd do my best to make sure no one else hired him either.

kupus

CatGur wrote: »

What if you found out much later they had lied?

Out the door so fast they'll be going thru it.

Oranage2 wrote: »

If you have the confidence to put a fake degree/qualifications on your CV then an empoyer will think you're confident enough to employ.

Obviously you might be caught out, but it's all about getting in the door and taking your chance, enough research should get you by, just be careful, there will be plently of begrudgers ready to stab you in the back so tell no one!

HorseSh1it of the highest order.

Simple rule to follow. If they lie about one thing, they will lie about another.
Anyway should you be called for an interview, good interviewers will spot a fake as soon as they walk in.

Oranage2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The cute auld hoor who lies, cheats and swidlles his way to the top then continues to run the company into the ground because he doesn't have a qualification to his name. That's how.

If I were an employer and someone did that to me not only would he be out the door I'd do my best to make sure no one else hired him either.

Oh right, you must be posting from tiny town.

Iwasfrozen

Oranage2 wrote: »

Oh right, you must be posting from tiny town.

What ever you think but you'll never get ahead by lying, eventually you will be caught.

Birroc

Little Acorn wrote: »

Would a lot of employers not ask you for a transcript of your results?
How common would that be? (I'm still in college and have just so far done jobs where a degree hasn't been needed)

I am not sure that all Irish employers check nowadays but they certainly didn't bother in the 1990s. I reckon US employers would check more but not all of them.
I put a non-existent masters on my 1st CV and it helped me get my 1st job. I have had 4 jobs since then so my academic qualifications are not important at all now. I would be quite surprised if a prospective employer started quizzing me on my degree/masters results during an interview now.

VinLieger

Experience does matter more imo, but lying about your degree shows serious dishonesty that i wouldnt hire someone who did it

Pat Mustard

Despite the fact that he left under a cloud, I've heard it said that Gary Santry was actually an excellent lecturer. Apparently, he was so good that Smurfit School of Business gave him an award. They did some research into his credentials when he applied for more senior positions. UCD changed hiring procedures after the Santry incident.

Mr Gary Santry engaged in deception at all stages of his seeking appointment with the Department of Banking and Finance, during the process of his recruitment as a temporary lecturer in 1997 and throughout the process of his applying for permanent appointment both as a College Lecturer and as a Professor in 2001. This deception included falsification of his qualifications and fabrication of his references.

Link

an equally high-profile CV cheat was allowed to quietly leave the country rather than face the rigour of the law. There were red faces at University College Dublin when it emerged that a senior lecturer with its Business School had been teaching there for four years on bogus qualifications.

To make matters worse, shortly before he was found out, American Gary Santry had been presented by UCD with an award for his outstanding service to the college. He'd contributed to the Business School being ranked the seventh best in Europe by the Financial Times, and his exposure raised fears that this prestige position might be downgraded, damaging the college's ability to attract high-paying foreign students.

Santry had landed the top post by claiming to hold a Masters in Business Administration from Notre Dame and a PhD from the Southern Methodist University in Texas. His exposure also raised fears that students paying large annual fees would sue UCD for failing to keep its end of the bargain to provide highly qualified lecturers. The Santry incident prompted reforms at UCD, ending a situation where senior academics were making appointments on the basis of unchecked CVs and without conducting any formal job interviews.

UCDVet

I can't go into details for obvious reasons but....

I lied through my teeth on my CV and have had a successful career since. I was an office worker who noticed that the higher-ups didn't seem to have any redeeming qualities. Middle managers who direct questions back and forth seem to add little value.

But for some reason, they get paid more than the people who actually *do* the work. Now, somewhere, high up the chain, someone needs to make important decisions - but that's not middle managers.

I didn't have an MBA or a post-graduate degree and I didn't have any experience as a manager.

Anyway, I got sick of it. And when I moved and was looking for new jobs - I applied for TWO types of jobs with two different CVs. One for the position I had been doing (and that I am qualified) and another for the position I felt I could do (with a bunch of lies). I had a certain amount of time to find a job, or else I would have ended up moving, leaving my wife behind....so I was desperate (not that it should excuse my lying).

I know they didn't verify my credentials because I created a degree and I lied about my last four years of work experience. I said that I was promoted to management three years earlier and had been managing a team of six.

It started as a joke, honestly. But I got positive feedback, some phone interviews and finally did an actual interview. As it got more serious, I did some homework, read some management books, learned some buzzwords and made up some more details about my past team and my past job.

I also adopted a persona. For example - I schedule 'casual conversations' to force me to remain social. I keep notes on my coworkers because I used to struggle to remember names or tid-bits about them. I also toned back my humour (because I'm kind of silly) and I make sure to always be more formal that I need to be.

In business, at least for middle manager types, image is more important than substance. A worker in T-shirt and jeans who does great stuff, but reports to me is viewed as less important than me in business casual. I use a fancy pen and make sure I have a leather portfolio with me instead of a notebook.

I really, really, really wish I were joking. But I'm not.

Having said all that, there is a lot of value in having a decent manager. I think I am a decent manager. The first six weeks were kind of overwhelming, now I'm doing fine. I got a big fat raise via my lying, but I actually hate my job. My day is about 5 hours of meetings and sometimes, I struggle with not jabbing my pen into my eye.