Do you trust beggars?

MJ23 · 26-08-2013 10:07AM

They're just as annoying as the charity bag packers in the supermarket.
Go away, you plague.

BeerWolf · 26-08-2013 10:16AM

Never, EVER, and I cannot emphasize this anymore, EEEEVVVVEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!! trust them Roma beggars.

They're all lying, deceitful scumbags. They actually make a career out of it.

Ihatecuddles-old · 26-08-2013 10:23AM

About 4 years ago I was walking through town, it was snowing at the time. There was a guy begging for money, he was sitting on the ground in the snow, legs crossed, no shoes, short trousers and A t shirt. He was crying.

I had no change but went to get some. He was gone when I went back. I cried all the way home, he looked so lost, cold and scared.

A few days later I see him in town, brand new phone, lovely clothes and shoes, laughing like he hadn't a care in the world. I wanted to throtte him!

corktina · 26-08-2013 10:36AM

yeah a scam, they fooled you into re-opening a three year old thread....

sebastianlieken · 26-08-2013 10:40AM

I was walking down the main pedestrianised shopping street in Hamburg in the middle of the day and walked by a begger who was sat in the middle of the pathway. He looked a bit worse for wear with his scruffy hair and unkept looks, big shaggy jacket, etc. but he did have quite a bit of money thrown out onto the mat infront of him - a few notes aswell. Anyway, he was counting his money as I walked past him. Well... I havn't seen a pile of cash like that before in my life; two seriously thick stacks in either hand, ALL crisp €50 notes. The fecker had more money in his hands than I had in my bank account! I was earning €500 a month there in total working full time. He had around 4 grand in his hands!

so no. I dont pity beggers. I think a high proportion of them are cons.

I Heart Internet · 26-08-2013 10:46AM

Most of the people I know (and myself included) would love to be able to give a few bob to someone genuinely in need. Quite frankly, it would makes me feel happy about myself, that I was doing a good, charitable thing.

But, likewise, most of the people I know (and me) have no way of knowing if people are genuine or not. Are we just giving a few bob to someone who is begging as a profession or will use it to buy drugs to harm themselves?

And IF we did know that someone was very genuine - homeless, genuinely hungry, cold, sick, afraid....wouldn't we want to do more than just give him €2.

So, like the OP, I have mixed feelings. Perhaps I should just give to everyone and maybe 10% of them will be deserving...........or give to nobody?

Menas · 26-08-2013 10:50AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Most of the people I know (and myself included) would love to be able to give a few bob to someone genuinely in need. Quite frankly, it would makes me feel happy about myself, that I was doing a good, charitable thing.

But, likewise, most of the people I know (and me) have no way of knowing if people are genuine or not. Are we just giving a few bob to someone who is begging as a profession or will use it to buy drugs to harm themselves?

And IF we did know that someone was very genuine - homeless, genuinely hungry, cold, sick, afraid....wouldn't we want to do more than just give him €2.

So, like the OP, I have mixed feelings. Perhaps I should just give to everyone and maybe 10% of them will be deserving...........or give to nobody?

The only way to ensure that SOME of your donation gets to the right people is to give to a charity....at least that is what I have convinced myself.

I Heart Internet · 26-08-2013 10:52AM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

The only way to ensure that SOME of your donation gets to the right people is to give to a charity....at least that is what I have convinced myself.

I feel bad passing people though - I'll even take a different street to avoid having to pass by and give nothing.

lkionm · 26-08-2013 10:56AM

I feel scammed. I was hoping for another minority bashing thread that would be locked when the mods update their software. (Monday morning is reboot time).

Dam you.

OldNotWIse · 26-08-2013 10:57AM

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

I was walking down O'Connell Street a few weeks ago and seen this guy, not sitting but on his knees with his hands out-stretched. No human being should decimate their dignity like that, it's completely and conclusively beyond human rights as far as I'm concerned.

I told him he didn't have to do this and talked with him for ten minutes about his plans for the duration of the week. He assured me he was looking for work... What is the world coming to?

As far as trusting them goes, in Ireland, we have the fortune of having help on hand for homeless folk. But they don't want help. Some people enjoy spending every last penny they get on alcohol and cigarettes. If they were actually trying to help themselves, I think people would be more accommodating and less hostile.

I've seen this guy. He faces into that big retail place beginning with P. It's hard to walk past someone on their knees but I guess that is what he is working on? How is he looking for a job kneeling on the street?

For me, it's not that I dont trust them but I really hate the ones who come into beer gardens and go around every table asking every person for coins/cigarettes. There's a woman who goes around by the top of Dame street and pretends to be pregnant - she's been six months gone for the last year - I think she is just fat.

There's also a new thing now of rolling up sleeves and showing tattoos or hospital bands and saying, "look I am genuine!! - er why?? Because you just freed up a bed you probably didnt need and even if you did, probably put yourself into? Or the "I'm trying to get the train fare together to get to Wexford, my gf left me etc"

Skerries · 26-08-2013 10:58AM

there's an older Irish woman who begs around Dawson St area and I think I've seen her the other side of the Liffey as well.
She puts on a whiny voice and goes through all the woes she has and people stop and listen to her and give her more than a normal beggar would get, even my own mother gave her €50 :rolleyes:

StephenHendry · 26-08-2013 11:16AM

i don't OP , as general rule nowadays. about 10 years ago there was a lot more of irish beggars who the odd time when i was living in cork and then dublin, i would give something towards but i see so many of the same people begging in the city centre/temple bar area that i treat them all with the same suspicion

(btw love the username OP , almost as good as mine :P )

bnt · 26-08-2013 11:37AM

What's trust got to do with it? You have no relationship with beggars. You can have no reasonable expectations about their behaviour. You see one for a few seconds, give some money or not, and you're gone.

As for the Roma beggars - do folks here get that there is nothing genuine about what they do? They are as organised as an invading army, complete with a uniform, standard equipment (the drugged baby), procedures, and "officers" watching over them to make sure they perform. They aren't here as economic migrants, or out of genuine need: they do the same thing in every country in Europe. It's as much a business as McDonalds, and the beggars see about as much of the profit as the counter person who bags your Big Mac i.e. none.

Zebra3 · 26-08-2013 11:57AM

madmaxpower wrote: »

could only find a fiver

How much were you planing on giving her for a poxy candle?

mathie · 26-08-2013 12:03PM

bnt wrote: »

What's trust got to do with it? You have no relationship with beggars. You can have no reasonable expectations about their behaviour. You see one for a few seconds, give some money or not, and you're gone.

I suppose the "trust" is that you think they need the money for food or clothes but they actually don't.

There's a guy on Henry St, Dublin who doesn't wear shoes and shivers. I've seen him do this all year round as I work on Henry St. He shivers ever in the middle of a heatwave.

I've seen people buy him shoes and he refuses them.

So how can you trust an act?

wexie · 26-08-2013 12:07PM

I'm normally fairly distrustful but my OH is a bit of a softy. But she's clever enough to never give them any money. Usually if she sees someone who looks like they need it she'll go to the nearest shop and get them a cuppa and a sandwich.

Only once ever was there any grumbles, most of them are delighted with a hot drink and some food.

Menas · 26-08-2013 12:10PM

Is begging actually illegal? ie Can or should the Garda be moving them on? Clearly they don't and that is part of the issue. For most beggers IMO it is a business and they are either sole traders or part of a larger more organized gang (like the Roma).

There is a begging pitch outside Tesco on baggot st (beside the waterloo pub). The manager of one of the shops there told me that the beggars pay a premium to someone to beg there as it is one of the more lucrative pitches in the city.

wexie · 26-08-2013 12:12PM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Is begging actually illegal? ie Can or should the Garda be moving them on?

It used to be but there was some jurisprudence last year that effectively means the Garda can no longer do much of anything.

I'm sure someone will be along any minute that can remember more precisely

StephenHendry · 26-08-2013 12:28PM

wexie wrote: »

It used to be but there was some jurisprudence last year that effectively means the Garda can no longer do much of anything.

I'm sure someone will be along any minute that can remember more precisely

didnt' know that, i would have thought the guards could still move people away from atms, at luas machines etc. such a nuisance especially if there are groups i.e. the romas

RDM_83 again · 26-08-2013 12:31PM

Einhard wrote: »

Is it true that homeles people cannot collect the dole because thay have no fixed abode? If so, that's pretty ridiculous. Surely there must be some way for the government to set up a PO box or some such for people without a home, and have them verify their id each week when they collect it. Doesn't exactly seem an insurmountable problem to solve. It's absurd that we have a social safety net in the form of welfare, but deny it to those who need it most.

They can if they are registered in a hostel (if they Irish/EU), which I would guess that a majority are, because though Ireland has a problem with homelessness, the last count of rough sleepers in Dublin gave a minimum of 94 people thats the lowest possible number but it still does not reflect the level of vagrancy actually seen on the streets even if the true figure is twice that.

wexie wrote: »

It used to be but there was some jurisprudence last year that effectively means the Garda can no longer do much of anything.

I'm sure someone will be along any minute that can remember more precisely

Original anti-begging law ruled unconstitutional (it was from 1847 :eek: ) in 2010.
The new law brought in then failed in high court rulings last year

Geuze · 26-08-2013 12:35PM

Einhard wrote: »

Is it true that homeles people cannot collect the dole because thay have no fixed abode? If so, that's pretty ridiculous. Surely there must be some way for the government to set up a PO box or some such for people without a home, and have them verify their id each week when they collect it. Doesn't exactly seem an insurmountable problem to solve. It's absurd that we have a social safety net in the form of welfare, but deny it to those who need it most.

No, not true.

Homeless people, etc. can and do receive social welfare - typically SWA at 188 pw.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Supplementary-Welfare-Allowance.aspx

wexie · 26-08-2013 12:40PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

T
Original anti-begging law ruled unconstitutional (it was from 1847 :eek: ) in 2010.
The new law brought in then failed in high court rulings last year

If they are stopped by gardai and asked if they have a permit to collect money under the 1962 Act they say they do not speak English and cannot understand.

Garda sources said last week that the new anti-begging law has, effectively, become defunct as gardai would probably have to prove in court that they had a translator present.

The High Court case was brought in the names of two men – Florin Rostas, a Roma gypsy, and John Maughan.

Their lawyers argued successfully that under the Act the gardai must establish that they did not have a licence to solicit money from the public.

Absolute lunacy....what's the odds these lawyers were paid for under free legal representation?

Holsten · 26-08-2013 12:48PM

Not really no, although I'd give more trust towards an Irish beggar than a foreign one.

If I have some spare change I'll give them some, doesn't really bother me if they use it for drink, drugs, food or shelter.

prizefighter · 26-08-2013 01:05PM

I've encountered manner beggars through my years of studying and working in Dublin city centre. I've only ever met two people who seemed to be genuine beggars.
I've encountered a particular beggar on exchequer/ south William St that fed me a story about waking up at a house party without his phone or wallet and he just needed a fiver to get home. Problem was that he stopped on Saturday AND Sunday with the very same tale. When I told him he'd tried this story only the day previous he called me a **** and piece of **** and told me to go **** myself. A case of a disingenuous conman I think you'd agree.
The Roma gypsy beggars are a different type of con, its organised and structured to an alarming degree.
In short I have enough anecdotal evidence to feel OK with being suspicious of all beggars at this stage.

Freddy Smelly · 26-08-2013 01:11PM

Roma gypsies = professional beggars - very very few of these are actually homeless - most get welfare
Irish beggars = most are drug or alcohol addicts who would rather feed their addiction than sort themselves out - most get welfare
Irish homeless = the majority are addicts and would spend all their money on feeding their addiction than paying rent for a bedsit, but there are a few who simply have fallen on hard times. - these dont get welfare in the majority of cases

OldNotWIse · 26-08-2013 01:15PM

prizefighter wrote: »

I've encountered manner beggars through my years of studying and working in Dublin city centre. I've only ever met two people who seemed to be genuine beggars.
I've encountered a particular beggar on exchequer/ south William St that fed me a story about waking up at a house party without his phone or wallet and he just needed a fiver to get home. Problem was that he stopped on Saturday AND Sunday with the very same tale. When I told him he'd tried this story only the day previous he called me a **** and piece of **** and told me to go **** myself. A case of a disingenuous conman I think you'd agree.
The Roma gypsy beggars are a different type of con, its organised and structured to an alarming degree.
In short I have enough anecdotal evidence to feel OK with being suspicious of all beggars at this stage.

Baffles me how they are still here...that means people must be giving them money

Like chuggers (they're beggars too I guess - bleedin' knats they are) - people must be signing up with them if its still worth the charities' while - even after paying the chugger's salary!

Handsome Bob · 26-08-2013 01:39PM

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

About 4 years ago I was walking through town, it was snowing at the time. There was a guy begging for money, he was sitting on the ground in the snow, legs crossed, no shoes, short trousers and A t shirt. He was crying.

I had no change but went to get some. He was gone when I went back. I cried all the way home, he looked so lost, cold and scared.

A few days later I see him in town, brand new phone, lovely clothes and shoes, laughing like he hadn't a care in the world. I wanted to throtte him!

Was he a young lad by any chance? When you see someone who is young and homeless, they'll behave like any other young man with their mates; full of bravado. It's only when they are on their own and the reality of their situation kicks in that you'll see what that person is really feeling. And in fairness, given the situation you described the first time you came across him, it's not that hard to believe his tears were genuine.

I am, of course, not suggesting that the man you came across was an angel. I'm just trying to give you an insight into someone's state of mind on the street.

mathie wrote: »

I suppose the "trust" is that you think they need the money for food or clothes but they actually don't.

There's a guy on Henry St, Dublin who doesn't wear shoes and shivers. I've seen him do this all year round as I work on Henry St. He shivers ever in the middle of a heatwave.

I've seen people buy him shoes and he refuses them.

So how can you trust an act?

His shivers probably have little to do with the weather.

livinsane · 26-08-2013 01:41PM

Always donate to the Simon Community and entrust them to use my money wisely. Never give to random beggers but there are one or two old people that have been around for years that I'd give money when they ask. They don't continually beg but honestly only seem to ask for it when they need it. They aint making a wage out of it! Money is definitely going on cans but they never cause any trouble and are nice people. And they're old!

green123 · 26-08-2013 01:42PM

how long would they stay begging if nobody gave them money ?
a few days maybe ?

so the real problem is the idiots who give them money

SmokeyEyes · 26-08-2013 02:22PM

I hate the recent trend of homeless people using pets to try and get more money. The man who begs on Henry St who always has a dog and his rabbit with him makes an absolute fortune out of people (I know he jumped into the liffey to save Barney the rabbit and that's great of course). I often stop to look at the rabbit cause I have one myself and can't help it and I've seen workers in the shops beside where he begs take his change and give him notes in exchange and he always has a queue of people giving him coins. I've also noticed another guy on the quays who now has a rabbit and clearly has no food or water for the poor little guy.

I've no problem helping people who genuinely need it but I can't stand people who take advantage and use ploys to try and make people feel sorry for them when in fact they're making a fair bit of cash.

Do you trust beggars?

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