Do you trust beggars?

ShearerGeordie

I know I feel guilty when I traipse on by a beggar on the street, without tossing a coin in their direction...usually because I'm almost always skint.

But also, it's hard to trust these guys. It's hard to detect the actual homeless types from the con artists intent on scamming people out of their money.

So do YOU give money to beggars on the street, or do you just not trust them?

I_AmThe_Walrus

I was walking down O'Connell Street a few weeks ago and seen this guy, not sitting but on his knees with his hands out-stretched. No human being should decimate their dignity like that, it's completely and conclusively beyond human rights as far as I'm concerned.

I told him he didn't have to do this and talked with him for ten minutes about his plans for the duration of the week. He assured me he was looking for work... What is the world coming to?

As far as trusting them goes, in Ireland, we have the fortune of having help on hand for homeless folk. But they don't want help. Some people enjoy spending every last penny they get on alcohol and cigarettes. If they were actually trying to help themselves, I think people would be more accommodating and less hostile.

MickShamrock

I don't give money to anyone.

PirateShampoo

What exactly dont you trust about them?

Lemsiper

MickShamrock wrote: »

I don't give money to anyone.

So you're one of those fare dodging cúnts ya?

Brendog

PirateShampoo wrote: »

What exactly dont you trust about them?

Have you ever seen them??....they pretend to be homeless all day and at around 11pm they are picked up in cars and brought home.

They knock on the doors of old people living alone and beg for money. They are given a small amount and come back the next day...and the next and the next and the next...It happened so much to a neighbor of mine that the beggar refused to leave until he gave her some money.
Now this man lives alone. His family rarely visits him and this beggar had been preying on him. Anytime he tried to close the door she forced it open and called him profane names and abused him, which can be very embarrassing in front of your neighbors. She also abused anyone who came to his aide or stopped to see what the commotion was.

Also I have almost been pick-pocketed by these dirty thieves on several occasions, on the luas, on the street, even in a cafe!

They are NOT refugees...they are disgusting thieves and whores who left their country by their own will because when they are caught stealing they are dealt with tougher than over here.
They can also get free housing, electricity, money.

It is a known fact that these beggars, if they applied, would get a house before an Irish citizen...this is the country we live in people....

so....



WHAT DO YE THINK OF IT?!?!

karlog

When i see beggars in whats looks like a brand spanking pair of new runners you cant help but be suspicious.

ejmaztec

karlog wrote: »

When i see beggars in whats looks like a brand spanking pair of new runners you cant help but be suspicious.

Especially when they're carrying an axe and there's a decapitated shoeless corpse lying next to them.

Abrasax

karlog wrote: »

When i see beggars in whats looks like a brand spanking pair of new runners you cant help but be suspicious.

It's when they pull out their mobile phone to speak to their dealer, I get suspicious.

I'll give to a beggar, if they look genuinely down on their luck.

Sometimes I'll give to the junkies, depends what mood I'm in.

But the healthy looking, well-dressed ones - no chance.

Reganio 2

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

I was walking down O'Connell Street a few weeks ago and seen this guy, not sitting but on his knees with his hands out-stretched. No human being should decimate their dignity like that, it's completely and conclusively beyond human rights as far as I'm concerned.

I told him he didn't have to do this and talked with him for ten minutes about his plans for the duration of the week. He assured me he was looking for work... What is the world coming to?

And I can guarantee you if you didn't give him money he cussed you to hell the second you walked away from him. He was more than likely just gutted you took up 10 mins of his money asking time.

Jumpy

Brendog wrote: »

Have you ever seen them??....they pretend to be homeless all day and at around 11pm they are picked up in cars and brought home.

They knock on the doors of old people living alone and beg for money. They are given a small amount and come back the next day...and the next and the next and the next...It happened so much to a neighbor of mine that the beggar refused to leave until he gave her some money.
Now this man lives alone. His family rarely visits him and this beggar had been preying on him. Anytime he tried to close the door she forced it open and called him profane names and abused him, which can be very embarrassing in front of your neighbors. She also abused anyone who came to his aide or stopped to see what the commotion was.

Also I have almost been pick-pocketed by these dirty thieves on several occasions, on the luas, on the street, even in a cafe!

They are NOT refugees...they are disgusting thieves and whores who left their country by their own will because when they are caught stealing they are dealt with tougher than over here.
They can also get free housing, electricity, money.

It is a known fact that these beggars, if they applied, would get a house before an Irish citizen...this is the country we live in people....

so....



WHAT DO YE THINK OF IT?!?!

Dear god. The Daily Mail has taken human form! RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIVES

madmaxpower

Had an a bad experience in Goats-town once.

I was stopped at the lights when a girl approached and knocked on the window.

She handed me a candle and a note and walked off. It was one of those small church candles. I assumed this to be something to do with some Christian sect and tossed it in the passenger seat. She was dressed pretty well and i simply didn't peg here for homeless. In fact she was attractive.

Next thing she reappeared and started knocking again I rolled down the window and she stood there with her hand out almost impatient with me , not a word of english. I leaned over and could only find the note.

It said something along the lines of I am homeless will you please buy my candle. I wanted to give her the candle back but it had disappeared into the mess that is the floor of my passenger seat. The lights where changing and she knew it she said something in a foreign tongue that made me hurry I reached into my pocket and could only find a fiver I gave it to her and she sprinted off to the next car without even a foreign thank you.

The whole thing left me feeling Like i had just been robbed. Passing her again I noted she was clean and well dressed wearing high heeled leather boots and jewellery.

The whole experience left be feeling very pissed off.

Having talked to several people about the incident. I have been told of groups of foreigners being picked up and delivered and even getting hours off for lunch.

One report i laughed at was a guy in bird avenue begging who could be seen changing tracks on his ipod every so often. I think their should be a rule if you have an ipod you shouldn't be allowed beg.

Having said all that during the cold snap last year i met a guy outside a spar shop it broke my heart I bought him a coffee and gave him what i had a tenor.

I think the greatest disgrace here is there are people out there taking advantage while there are people who do need help and the whole situation is getting very ugly.

Food for thought

Einhard

Is it true that homeles people cannot collect the dole because thay have no fixed abode? If so, that's pretty ridiculous. Surely there must be some way for the government to set up a PO box or some such for people without a home, and have them verify their id each week when they collect it. Doesn't exactly seem an insurmountable problem to solve. It's absurd that we have a social safety net in the form of welfare, but deny it to those who need it most.

Atlantic Dawn

Theres a professional operating outside Pearse Station every morning, she positions herself right between the wall and a lampost to close as much free pavement as possible so people have to see her, sometimes for effect she will go barefeet. Of beggars is she was a footballer she would be on the Brazil team . I've regularly seen skirmishes with people trying to take her patch.

I'd say she clears €25 an hour no problems.

Chinasea

There is one man that annoyed me with his begging. I was standing at the bus stop at College Green and I felt someone poking me from behind and I turned around and there was a well dressed man who gestured that he was deaf and asked me for one Euro and repeated one Euro. He was extremely pushy. I handed over the one Euro as I felt obliged but then he just kept going from one person to the next. The same man stopped me again the other day on Grafton Street. He certainly didn't look any poorer than me and it dawned on me that he is most likely receiving several types of benefits and disability allowance. I felt mugged.

Einhard

madmaxpower wrote: »

Having said all that during the cold snap last year i met a guy outside a spar shop it broke my heart I bought him a coffee and gave him what i had a tenor.

Awww, you got someone to sing him to sleep? :pac::pac::pac:

Have had some bad experiences along the same lines. They seem to know that all they have to do is get me flustered when I'm hungover and I'm liable to start thrusting any money I have into their outstretched hands just to get them to leave me alone. Bastards!

Was in America once though, and this homless guy came up to me. He was your stereotypical American drifter, long dirty beard, ragged clothes, and a smell that should have alerted me to his presence a mile off. Anyway, he came up reeking of drink, and put an auto magazine into my hand. I didn't know what he was doing until he pointed at a car he had circled and asked me to help him live his dream. It was a bloody Ford Mustang or some other classic, expensive car. I laughed my arse off and ended up buying the car for him giving him a few dollars.

kfallon

They can all ask me hole, not getting a penny off me!

JohnnyChimpo

We are beggars all.

arybvtcw0eolkf

'There but for the grace of God go I'.

Handsome Bob

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

No human being should decimate their dignity like that, it's completely and conclusively beyond human rights as far as I'm concerned.

It's hard to have dignity when you're in that situation.

He assured me he was looking for work... What is the world coming to?

Why? Do you expect him to be working? Do you think he has a chance with any employers?

But they don't want help.

That's a big generalisation. Plenty of homeless people are crying out for help. The young ones who are vulnerable to every opportunist at night. The people who are doing untold damage to their health by sleeping rough every night, especially in the cold months. The mothers with young kids. Do you think these people actually don't want help?

Stark

ShearerGeordie wrote: »

So do YOU give money to beggars on the street, or do you just not trust them?

I don't trust anyone who looks for money off me unless I have some means to verify they're in actual need. And that includes charity collectors given that any chancer can print off a logo from a charity's website and stick it on a bucket. I especially don't trust the ones who come into pubs or the ones who beg collect at traffic lights.

I'll donate money directly to Simon alright.

Motley Crue

I don't trust beggars, but then, from a personal standpoint I see virtually none of them in England compared to Ireland...I assume it's because the laws are very different here.....

falan

Despite the title of "American Psycho-Bum scene"....Its not what you might think... i.e its not ghey porn.....:D:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbGJ7p6t6yE&feature=related

mikemac

Could happen to any of us.
Maybe crash your car and you're on disability for life if you hurt your back.
Wife (or husband) leaves you for some reason and you lose the family home and visitation rights to children.

Now you are resorted to living in a bedsit and surving on disability and rent allowance.
And what happens if you get cut off but cannot work.
Or maybe you move to a new city but your promised job falls through and you've no money and nobody to turn to.

As said above:
'There but for the grace of God go I'.

We can sit here and log onto www.welfare.ie and know what to do.
Some people don't know where to go or have addictions and realy if you slept on the cold streets, alcohol may the only way you have to cope, an escape.
Plus a lot of homeless people have mental health issues, which is shamefully stigmatized in Ireland.
In our county "going to Clonmel" is a stigma and an insult as that is where the mental hospital is.

Anyway, give or don't give. Of course there are chancers and people who beg for a living, as it happens I never give money, my taxes are for that but I do volunteer my time.
If they are aggressive or hassling you, go to the gardai.
But I wouldn't try to judge somebody on the footpath I walk on when I've never walked in their shoes.

TopBombing

I'm more likely to give an wino or drunk some change as I know he's just looking to spend it on drink.

Romanians or their ilk begging while holding onto a young child to make you feel guilty - no chance.

baldbear

I don't trust Roma beggers. I see a family of them begging in my town in different spots. Then the father Roma picks them up in his 2001 BMW. It really annoys me.

Some beggers are really down on there luck and do need help so i'v no problem giving them a bit of grub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZXNhycMX_M

GirlOfGlass

If it looks like they're on drugs (which a lot if them are), then no.
I don't want to feed drug habits!

Seen a begger today at the Luas stop today asking for spare change for a 'hostel' while bouncing around on the spot, eyes barely open, zoned out of it.
He did absolutely no justice for himself.

VinnyTGM

I never give anything to them.
Why aren't the Govt. doing something about these 'well off' beggars.

opinion guy

Brendog wrote: »

Have you ever seen them??....they pretend to be homeless all day and at around 11pm they are picked up in cars and brought home.

They knock on the doors of old people living alone and beg for money. They are given a small amount and come back the next day...and the next and the next and the next...It happened so much to a neighbor of mine that the beggar refused to leave until he gave her some money.
Now this man lives alone. His family rarely visits him and this beggar had been preying on him. Anytime he tried to close the door she forced it open and called him profane names and abused him, which can be very embarrassing in front of your neighbors. She also abused anyone who came to his aide or stopped to see what the commotion was.

Also I have almost been pick-pocketed by these dirty thieves on several occasions, on the luas, on the street, even in a cafe!

They are NOT refugees...they are disgusting thieves and whores who left their country by their own will because when they are caught stealing they are dealt with tougher than over here.
They can also get free housing, electricity, money.

It is a known fact that these beggars, if they applied, would get a house before an Irish citizen...this is the country we live in people....

so....



WHAT DO YE THINK OF IT?!?!

I think this is racist ****e since most of the people begging are Irish.

BeggarBelief

I came across a female begging outside Fallon Byrne last Saturday, she told me she was not looking for money but baby formula for her baby who was in Crumlin Hospital. I believed her took her to Dunnes stores and bought some baby supplies for her. I thought afterwards if her baby was in hospital surely it would be fed there so now wondering if I was scammed. Has anyone else come across her

Lemsiper

BeggarBelief wrote: »

I came across a female begging outside Fallon Byrne last Saturday, she told me she was not looking for money but baby formula for her baby who was in Crumlin Hospital. I believed her took her to Dunnes stores and bought some baby supplies for her. I thought afterwards if her baby was in hospital surely it would be fed there so now wondering if I was scammed. Has anyone else come across her

You were scammed. She's using the baby formula to cut the gear.

MJ23

They're just as annoying as the charity bag packers in the supermarket.
Go away, you plague.

BeerWolf

Never, EVER, and I cannot emphasize this anymore, EEEEVVVVEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!! trust them Roma beggars.

They're all lying, deceitful scumbags. They actually make a career out of it.

Ihatecuddles-old

About 4 years ago I was walking through town, it was snowing at the time. There was a guy begging for money, he was sitting on the ground in the snow, legs crossed, no shoes, short trousers and A t shirt. He was crying.

I had no change but went to get some. He was gone when I went back. I cried all the way home, he looked so lost, cold and scared.

A few days later I see him in town, brand new phone, lovely clothes and shoes, laughing like he hadn't a care in the world. I wanted to throtte him!

corktina

yeah a scam, they fooled you into re-opening a three year old thread....

sebastianlieken

I was walking down the main pedestrianised shopping street in Hamburg in the middle of the day and walked by a begger who was sat in the middle of the pathway. He looked a bit worse for wear with his scruffy hair and unkept looks, big shaggy jacket, etc. but he did have quite a bit of money thrown out onto the mat infront of him - a few notes aswell. Anyway, he was counting his money as I walked past him. Well... I havn't seen a pile of cash like that before in my life; two seriously thick stacks in either hand, ALL crisp €50 notes. The fecker had more money in his hands than I had in my bank account! I was earning €500 a month there in total working full time. He had around 4 grand in his hands!

so no. I dont pity beggers. I think a high proportion of them are cons.

I Heart Internet

Most of the people I know (and myself included) would love to be able to give a few bob to someone genuinely in need. Quite frankly, it would makes me feel happy about myself, that I was doing a good, charitable thing.

But, likewise, most of the people I know (and me) have no way of knowing if people are genuine or not. Are we just giving a few bob to someone who is begging as a profession or will use it to buy drugs to harm themselves?

And IF we did know that someone was very genuine - homeless, genuinely hungry, cold, sick, afraid....wouldn't we want to do more than just give him €2.

So, like the OP, I have mixed feelings. Perhaps I should just give to everyone and maybe 10% of them will be deserving...........or give to nobody?

Menas

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Most of the people I know (and myself included) would love to be able to give a few bob to someone genuinely in need. Quite frankly, it would makes me feel happy about myself, that I was doing a good, charitable thing.

But, likewise, most of the people I know (and me) have no way of knowing if people are genuine or not. Are we just giving a few bob to someone who is begging as a profession or will use it to buy drugs to harm themselves?

And IF we did know that someone was very genuine - homeless, genuinely hungry, cold, sick, afraid....wouldn't we want to do more than just give him €2.

So, like the OP, I have mixed feelings. Perhaps I should just give to everyone and maybe 10% of them will be deserving...........or give to nobody?

The only way to ensure that SOME of your donation gets to the right people is to give to a charity....at least that is what I have convinced myself.

I Heart Internet

Trigger Happy wrote: »

The only way to ensure that SOME of your donation gets to the right people is to give to a charity....at least that is what I have convinced myself.

I feel bad passing people though - I'll even take a different street to avoid having to pass by and give nothing.

lkionm

I feel scammed. I was hoping for another minority bashing thread that would be locked when the mods update their software. (Monday morning is reboot time).


Dam you.

OldNotWIse

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

I was walking down O'Connell Street a few weeks ago and seen this guy, not sitting but on his knees with his hands out-stretched. No human being should decimate their dignity like that, it's completely and conclusively beyond human rights as far as I'm concerned.

I told him he didn't have to do this and talked with him for ten minutes about his plans for the duration of the week. He assured me he was looking for work... What is the world coming to?

As far as trusting them goes, in Ireland, we have the fortune of having help on hand for homeless folk. But they don't want help. Some people enjoy spending every last penny they get on alcohol and cigarettes. If they were actually trying to help themselves, I think people would be more accommodating and less hostile.

I've seen this guy. He faces into that big retail place beginning with P. It's hard to walk past someone on their knees but I guess that is what he is working on? How is he looking for a job kneeling on the street?

For me, it's not that I dont trust them but I really hate the ones who come into beer gardens and go around every table asking every person for coins/cigarettes. There's a woman who goes around by the top of Dame street and pretends to be pregnant - she's been six months gone for the last year - I think she is just fat.

There's also a new thing now of rolling up sleeves and showing tattoos or hospital bands and saying, "look I am genuine!! - er why?? Because you just freed up a bed you probably didnt need and even if you did, probably put yourself into? Or the "I'm trying to get the train fare together to get to Wexford, my gf left me etc"

Skerries

there's an older Irish woman who begs around Dawson St area and I think I've seen her the other side of the Liffey as well.
She puts on a whiny voice and goes through all the woes she has and people stop and listen to her and give her more than a normal beggar would get, even my own mother gave her €50 :rolleyes:

StephenHendry

i don't OP , as general rule nowadays. about 10 years ago there was a lot more of irish beggars who the odd time when i was living in cork and then dublin, i would give something towards but i see so many of the same people begging in the city centre/temple bar area that i treat them all with the same suspicion



(btw love the username OP , almost as good as mine :P )

bnt

What's trust got to do with it? You have no relationship with beggars. You can have no reasonable expectations about their behaviour. You see one for a few seconds, give some money or not, and you're gone.

As for the Roma beggars - do folks here get that there is nothing genuine about what they do? They are as organised as an invading army, complete with a uniform, standard equipment (the drugged baby), procedures, and "officers" watching over them to make sure they perform. They aren't here as economic migrants, or out of genuine need: they do the same thing in every country in Europe. It's as much a business as McDonalds, and the beggars see about as much of the profit as the counter person who bags your Big Mac i.e. none.

Zebra3

madmaxpower wrote: »

could only find a fiver

How much were you planing on giving her for a poxy candle?

mathie

bnt wrote: »

What's trust got to do with it? You have no relationship with beggars. You can have no reasonable expectations about their behaviour. You see one for a few seconds, give some money or not, and you're gone.

I suppose the "trust" is that you think they need the money for food or clothes but they actually don't.

There's a guy on Henry St, Dublin who doesn't wear shoes and shivers. I've seen him do this all year round as I work on Henry St. He shivers ever in the middle of a heatwave.

I've seen people buy him shoes and he refuses them.

So how can you trust an act?

wexie

I'm normally fairly distrustful but my OH is a bit of a softy. But she's clever enough to never give them any money. Usually if she sees someone who looks like they need it she'll go to the nearest shop and get them a cuppa and a sandwich.

Only once ever was there any grumbles, most of them are delighted with a hot drink and some food.

Menas

Is begging actually illegal? ie Can or should the Garda be moving them on? Clearly they don't and that is part of the issue. For most beggers IMO it is a business and they are either sole traders or part of a larger more organized gang (like the Roma).

There is a begging pitch outside Tesco on baggot st (beside the waterloo pub). The manager of one of the shops there told me that the beggars pay a premium to someone to beg there as it is one of the more lucrative pitches in the city.

wexie

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Is begging actually illegal? ie Can or should the Garda be moving them on?

It used to be but there was some jurisprudence last year that effectively means the Garda can no longer do much of anything.

I'm sure someone will be along any minute that can remember more precisely

StephenHendry

wexie wrote: »

It used to be but there was some jurisprudence last year that effectively means the Garda can no longer do much of anything.

I'm sure someone will be along any minute that can remember more precisely

didnt' know that, i would have thought the guards could still move people away from atms, at luas machines etc. such a nuisance especially if there are groups i.e. the romas

RDM_83 again

Einhard wrote: »

Is it true that homeles people cannot collect the dole because thay have no fixed abode? If so, that's pretty ridiculous. Surely there must be some way for the government to set up a PO box or some such for people without a home, and have them verify their id each week when they collect it. Doesn't exactly seem an insurmountable problem to solve. It's absurd that we have a social safety net in the form of welfare, but deny it to those who need it most.

They can if they are registered in a hostel (if they Irish/EU), which I would guess that a majority are, because though Ireland has a problem with homelessness, the last count of rough sleepers in Dublin gave a minimum of 94 people thats the lowest possible number but it still does not reflect the level of vagrancy actually seen on the streets even if the true figure is twice that.

wexie wrote: »

It used to be but there was some jurisprudence last year that effectively means the Garda can no longer do much of anything.

I'm sure someone will be along any minute that can remember more precisely

Original anti-begging law ruled unconstitutional (it was from 1847 :eek: ) in 2010.
The new law brought in then failed in high court rulings last year