Girlfriend joining a cult?

LegacyUser · 23-08-2013 07:56PM #1

Hi...going anon for this

so my gf has had jehovah's witnesses coming round once or twice a week to study some book with her. She has really changed, and not really for the better. We aren't bad people. I don't drink, don't don drugs or anything but she has suddenly become really judgemental about peoples choices. My sister is lesbian and all of a sudden she won't have anything to do with her.
She also wants me to start studying with them, as apparently it will do me some good. Now this is where it gets complicated. I am athiest and currently am training to be a doctor. I do not believe in god, i do not like the witnesses based on their believes about blood or about their believes in many other things. My gf is saying she wants us to get married so she can get baptised or something.
I am out of my head with work as any junior doctor would be - when I am not working, I am trying to recover from working, or else keeping up to date with papers and doing my own paperwork. I don't want to get married just to please some group of people, especially a religious group that I have no interest in joining.

Is this the end of the road for us? Does anyone have any info on what these people really believe? I scanned through the book and the reasoning and logic is infantile at best.

IrishEyes19 · 24-08-2013 02:38PM

Im going to be perfectly honest and I might get flamed for this. I do not like those cult groups including the one you have mentioned. They isolate you and are hateful. Id get out of there, OP.

jdsk2006 · 24-08-2013 02:44PM

She sounds like she is being brainwashed op. Whatever you do DON'T marry her just yet

username123 · 24-08-2013 02:55PM

Surely as a junior doctor you have the intelligence and medical training to know when someone is not behaving in a rational manner?

Im honestly not sure I believe the post at all because what you are asking is totally at odds with what your intelligence and education should be telling you.

bumper234 · 24-08-2013 02:59PM

Run Dougal run quite fast.

But seriously she is getting sucked into their cult and you should as her BF try to help her but if she is trying to force you to get involved then maybe you need to rethink your relationship with her.

Stavro Mueller · 24-08-2013 07:27PM

Would it be worth contacting an organisation such as Dialogue Ireland for advice? http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/

Rosy Posy · 24-08-2013 08:53PM

I have some experience with Jehovah's Witnesses- being a weirdo magnet and generally conscious of being respectful of others' religious beliefs they started calling around to my house periodically for a while, until I got the guts to tell them that I didn't agree with their views on homosexuality, nor could I believe that the bible was the one true word of God.

Anyway, I did some research on them and a couple of things stood out for me. They are not allowed to associate with anyone outside of the faith unless they are actively trying to convert them. This means that if your gf is serious about joining them and you are clear on your belief system then shortly she will have to make a you-or-them choice. Until then most of your conversations will be around her trying to accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your one true saviour.

Afaics the central tenet of the religion is that all the answers are in the literal words of the Bible, hence their homophobia. There are also a lot of other crazy things in the Bible, here are some points that you might be able to raise with her/them.

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination… End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Your adoring fan.
James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum,
Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

I really feel for you going through this as a junior doctor, it's a stressful time. I wonder if you could enlist the help of some of your gf's close friends and family and stage an intervention of sorts? Maybe explain your concerns and your unwillingness to lose her to this religion. I wonder if she is feeling lost and vulnerable atm? I get the feeling that these people target people like this- they started calling to me when I was at home with a newborn and starved of adult company. I realise you're busy but perhaps you could try to build up a support network for your gf outside of these people?

goose2005 · 24-08-2013 09:53PM

Here's a good page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

LegacyUser · 24-08-2013 10:21PM

I would contact MIKE GARDE
DIRECTOR DIALOGUE IRELAND
Phone: <Snip - we prefer not to post any numbers, even those publicly availalbe> 7/8 Lr Abbey St; Dublin 1
Web site: http://www.dialogueireland.org
Email address: info@dialogueireland.org

This man would be well known in dealing with people involved with cults and will be able to give you more advice in regards to this. Once you get advice you can then decide what to do.

From a previous post you may have to end the relationship if you are unwilling to get married or get involved with the jehovah's witnesses like she wants you to do.
My advice is try to help her if you can but unless she is willing to go away from them don't stay with her. You will be under a lot of pressure to get involved with the jehovah's witnesses if you stay together.

bp · 25-08-2013 07:25AM

I know and was in a Catholic school with practicing JV and they never tried to convert me - just saying so as not to tar an entire religion with the same brush.

That said there are always extremists and no one has the right to force their beliefs on you. My biggest worry would be her making you go against your sister...family or me should not be a choice in normal relationships.

clairefontaine · 25-08-2013 10:20AM

Is she over 18? If so she is free to choose what religion she wants, and yes believe it or to, those crackpots are a religion, as many other crackpots also are religions, and not a cult. Finer distinctions apply.

In other words, she's an adult ans she is changing. Nothing you can do about.

As a doctor, this could be a challenge for you especially if you had kids. No immunisations, for example.

dudara · 25-08-2013 10:24AM

OP - one thing you don't seem to mention is whether or not you have spoken to your girlfriend about all this? Has she given any reason why this is so appealing to her?

LegacyUser · 25-08-2013 04:43PM

OP here : First of all, thanks everyone for your responses

Surely as a junior doctor you have the intelligence and medical training to know when someone is not behaving in a rational manner?

Im honestly not sure I believe the post at all because what you are asking is totally at odds with what your intelligence and education should be telling you.

A bit much but I see your point. I know she isn't acting very rationally and it has had my spidey senses tingling for a while, i assumed that as a smart woman, she would get the same sense as well.

They are not allowed to associate with anyone outside of the faith unless they are actively trying to convert them. This means that if your gf is serious about joining them and you are clear on your belief system then shortly she will have to make a you-or-them choice. Until then most of your conversations will be around her trying to accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your one true saviour.

I got this vibe as well, but they said to her that you're free to associate with anyone, but the book that she studies says that you have to limit your association with those outside the faith for your own good.

Is she over 18? If so she is free to choose what religion she wants, and yes believe it or to, those crackpots are a religion, as many other crackpots also are religions, and not a cult. Finer distinctions apply.

In other words, she's an adult ans she is changing. Nothing you can do about.

Oh I know she is free to do what she wants, but this affects me as well - which is why I'm worried. Ultimately, it is her decision but at this point it isn't rational.

OP - one thing you don't seem to mention is whether or not you have spoken to your girlfriend about all this? Has she given any reason why this is so appealing to her?

At length. She lost her mother last year in an awful way (Car crash). A workmate of hers is the Jehovah's witness involved, who basically bombarded her with magazines and stuff about her mother isn't in heaven or hell, but is asleep in the ground waiting to be resurrected to a paradise earth where if she is a Jehovah's witness, she will see her again.

This is what I am up against, she misses her mum, but they took advantage of mourning person to recruit into their religion.

As for the other responses, thank you for those - I am going to reach out to Dialogue Ireland tomorrow to see what they can assist with.

iusedtoknow · 25-08-2013 05:14PM

I feel for you OP. I grew up with a witness, they are actually nice enough people but pretty misguided when it comes to being "normal".

He wasn't allowed join up with our schools teams (basketball etc) as they had to limit their exposure to us "bad associations".
They are only allowed marry other jehovah's witnesses and if you want to leave you are excommunicated. How do I know all this? He was excommunicated because he had the audacity to not believe it. He told the church elders (priests I think) that he was having doubts, and they basically threw him out.

His family wouldn't talk to him, even when his father died he had to sit at the back of the service.

I hope your GF sees sense, but they are pretty good at hiding the bad stuff that goes on in their religion. The wikipedia article above is pretty good.

FouxDaFaFa · 25-08-2013 10:16PM

weird_religion wrote: »

She lost her mother last year in an awful way (Car crash). A workmate of hers is the Jehovah's witness involved, who basically bombarded her with magazines and stuff about her mother isn't in heaven or hell, but is asleep in the ground waiting to be resurrected to a paradise earth where if she is a Jehovah's witness, she will see her again.

Oh God, OP. That is terrible. It would go some way to explaining why she's taken to it with such zeal.

You're faced with a very difficult decision as her judgement probably isn't the best right now. However, the way she's casually disregarding your sister solely because she's a lesbian would be more than enough for me to leave immediately. That's unacceptable.

December2012 · 26-08-2013 09:24AM

Em, I think you need to take care of your girlfriend. She lost her mother suddenly and violently and she felt so vulnerable that she has sought solace from strangers.

Did you notice the signs? People don't do this overnight.

Who has been there for her? Who talks to her about her loss, cheers her up and helps to manage the void she is attempting to full with religion.

Who's to say the religion is bad? It's not my cup of tea, but it's hers.

So if I were you OP, I would not bring up the religion, but instead I would focus completely on my girlfriend and constructively help her process the grief, maybe with a grief counsellor.

You've dropped the ball in letting it get to this stage, pick it back up and help her with the underlying issue.

Benny_Cake · 26-08-2013 09:34AM

Sorry to hear about this OP, it's obviously a difficult situation for you.

There are plenty of websites out there on Jehovah's Witnesses. While many JWs are decent and sincere people, I find that is despite the Watchtower Society, which is highly controlling and quite manipulative. The stories out there from people who ended up being shunned by their families as a result of rejecting the faith are truly heartbreaking.

Given the personal trauma she has suffered, the JW vision of eternal life on a perfected Earth probably holds a lot of appeal for her. Not sure if I've any advice to give you. Something you could bring up with her are the repeated changes in doctrine that Witnesses have been expected to swallow over the last 100 years, particularly all the failed armageddon predictions.

Mixed faith relationships can work (I'm in one myself) but with a highly controlling and demanding group like Jehovah's Witnesses it is more difficult, that's for sure.

jimmycrackcorm · 26-08-2013 03:06PM

It sounds like she is still suffering the bereavement and has found something to fill the need to compensate.

Perhaps you could think about pushing her towards the idea of bereavement counselling that might not only be good for her but reduce the influence of the religion.

kylith · 27-08-2013 03:05PM

It sounds to me that she was looking for comfort after her mother passed, and this JW seized the opportunity to convert someone who was at a very vulnerable point.

I know that as a junior doctor you have very little time free, but you really, really need to sit down with your GF and talk to her; tell her that you're afraid that she's changing (she used to like your sister and now she doesn't), that you apologise for not being there enough after her mother passed (regardless of whether you were or you weren't this is a good thing to say), and that you're worried about your future together if she continues with the JWs. Explain gently how exclusionary they are, and tell her that you don't want to lose her.

Try to take some time off and go away for even a few days, just the two of you. Try encourage her to keep busy during the week so that she gets out of the habit of having the JWs over. Or maybe even introduce her to another bible or religious group, one that's just as happy to have her, but less judgemental than the JWs. She is probably looking for acceptance and support, don't let her find it in the wrong places.

heretochat · 27-08-2013 03:12PM

I agree with the other posters that say your girlfriend is vulnerable as a result of her bereavement and she is looking for something to fill that void in her life.

Again I appreciate that you have a very busy and worthwhile profession but you need to give her more if at all possible..

Bereavement counselling is the best thing for her (I lost my own mother a couple of years back and it was the only thing that helped me) and I would suggest that you direct her towards that if she is willing. She probably has a lot of grief, regret, anger etc. that she needs to get out of her system and as things stand she sees the JWs as the only outlet.

blatantrereg · 27-08-2013 05:07PM

It's not a matter of logic or intelligence. When there is enough emotional buy-in these things go out the window.

Nonetheless, it would be justifiable to break up with her over this. You probably don't have time for it, and you have a duty to avoid issues that might impact your ability to do your work. Your position carries a high level of responsibility.

It's not really clear how deeply you are involved. If you would prefer to just dump her and get rid of the hassle then yes that would be justified. If you are wondering what has happened to the woman you fell for; well she's been targeted while in a vulnerable state. Some of the other replies seem to give good suggestions about how to address that or where to seek further advice.

December2012 · 27-08-2013 05:37PM

blatantrereg wrote: »

It's not a matter of logic or intelligence. When there is enough emotional buy-in these things go out the window.

Nonetheless, it would be justifiable to break up with her over this. You probably don't have time for it, and you have a duty to avoid issues that might impact your ability to do your work. Your position carries a high level of responsibility.

It's not really clear how deeply you are involved. If you would prefer to just dump her and get rid of the hassle then yes that would be justified. If you are wondering what has happened to the woman you fell for; well she's been targeted while in a vulnerable state. Some of the other replies seem to give good suggestions about how to address that or where to seek further advice.

I dont think its on to dump a grieving person who is clearly going through a very tough time, because of this.

Virgil° · 27-08-2013 07:20PM

December2012 wrote: »

I dont think its on to dump a grieving person who is clearly going through a very tough time, because of this.

It absolutely is. I think the OP should definitely try to get her to some professional bereavement counselling and also tip off her family as to his concerns.

However if push comes to shove and she won't take steps to help herself theres only so much the OP can do. And enduring a barmy cults effect on his relationships/work careers future is absolutely a dumpable offence.

afterglow · 27-08-2013 07:21PM

Hi OP

I hope you won't mind me offering my 2 cents worth here.
Firstly, you are to be admired/commended for your proffession. Your job is one of the most special and what you are doing is a really wonderful thing training to be a doctor.
I think, there is a few things you need to ask yourself about what's currently going on with your GF

1. Has she always been religious, or is it just since the Jehovah's witnesses came round and started talking to her that she's become interested? I ask this because, in essence, there is nothing wrong with her trying to find a spiritual path/start her own spiritual journey, even if it is in a way that others don't agree with.
2. Is it effecting your relationship in any way, either positively or negatively? I don't mean as you see it, because obviously if you thought it was positive you wouldn't be on boards looking for guidance on how best to handle the situation.
3. Would you be so concerned if your GF started showing interest in other religious faiths/groups/movements or is it just because it's the JW's?
One final point I'd make is that just because you think it's a cult/don't agree with the way they do things or their faith, doesn't mean it is. Not saying you are wrong to be concerned, and I did read the post that someone put up a few days ago about smighting their neighbours etc, and while I don't necessarily agree with taking the bible literally as they do, or their views on transfusions, it still doesn't make them a cult.
I hope you and your GF can work this Bout in a way that works for you both.
Best of luck.

LegacyUser · 28-08-2013 01:13AM

OP here

Thanks for all your responses

Em, I think you need to take care of your girlfriend. She lost her mother suddenly and violently and she felt so vulnerable that she has sought solace from strangers.

Did you notice the signs? People don't do this overnight.

I was there for her, i ended up basically dropping out for as long as i could to be around with her...still am there for her - however her workmate has tried to provide something I can't...hope. She misses her mum, and wants to see her again. She wasn't religious before this happened, she always saw herself as humanist, but now faced with this reality, she wants to believe she'll see her again. I have seen too much crap in my day to day life to ever believe there is a god, far less one that gives a crap (not that i would say this now)

2. Is it effecting your relationship in any way, either positively or negatively? I don't mean as you see it, because obviously if you thought it was positive you wouldn't be on boards looking for guidance on how best to handle the situation.
3. Would you be so concerned if your GF started showing interest in other religious faiths/groups/movements or is it just because it's the JW's?

Yes it is...she will no longer talk with my sister as she is "immoral" (a lesbian, in a civil relationship in the UK with a kid and another on the way). I love my sister and nieces to bits, and so did she until this happened. Now she doesn't want me to go over after the birth of my second nephew/niece due to the choices of it's mother.

As for another religious group...i am suspicious of any group that tries to de-code and put meaning on a book with no little empirical or historical evidence. I am a man of science and see faith as something to be suspicious of..

We've been together now 5 years and been through a lot in this time. We spoke this week about it, She is holding off on getting baptized in until next year, so she can understand a few more things. At a service or meeting she was at on Sunday she heard something that unsettled her, I don't know what but i hope against hope she is starting to see the bad (as well as the good)

Beruthiel · 28-08-2013 09:17AM

Try to get her to a counsellor OP.
She's clearly in a very vulnerable place and as with all cults/religions, they prey on that.

I would be very worried if my partner suddenly went down the religious route.
Someone who is an atheist and suddenly 'finds' god, is not in a happy place.

As for the JW, they do not allow blood transfusions.
What if you were to have children further down the line?
What if they needed a blood transfusion?
These are things I would be taking into consideration.

Witchie · 29-08-2013 12:46AM

I really don't think they were "preying no her" like some people like to think. In all probability she confided in her workmate about how she felt so lost and down since her mum died and her friend fully believes in her faith and tried to comfort her with it.

My best friend in college is a JW and a sweeter more sincere person you could not meet. She has never tried to tell me I am wrong in my life or get me to join them. I think that your gf was searching for something and this was on hand. I do think she needs to see someone for the trauma of losing her mum and maybe she will work through things without going further into religion.

Be there for her as much as you but if its too much for you then you might just have to walk away.

iguana · 29-08-2013 01:43PM

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it, if one of my brothers was gay and my partner suddenly found God and decided to have nothing more to do with him that would be it for me. I understand that her grief about her mother must be overwhelming her and this religious belief makes her feel as if it is helping her deal with her enormous loss but refusing to have anything more to do with your sister, just because she is gay is not at all ok.

Czarcasm · 29-08-2013 02:35PM

OP I've read through the thread a couple of times now, and I've read your responses, and to me (I would hope you don't take this as a personal criticism), you sound like someone who cares more about expressing your vehement opposition to religion, than actually focussing on the person.

Initially I thought your girlfriend was introduced to the Jehovahs by way of the door-to-door type. But it transpired it was actually through a colleague in work. I understand that you pride yourself on being a "man of science", but this isn't about you or your opposition to religion. It's about your girlfriend and right now, she's turning as you say to the only thing she sees as giving her hope. You're obviously capable of compassion given how you express your affection for your sister and her children, and maybe that's the kind of support your girlfriend feels she isn't getting from you, hence why she's under the impression that, well, it's pretty twisted logic in a way, but maybe she feels that the suppport she's getting from religion, might help you too.

You really need to try re-focus your efforts on not pointing out what you see is wrong with religion, but help her to see that YOU support her, so that she doesn't need to look elsewhere for support. The more you antagonise her and rip that support blanket away from her without replacing it with something else, the more she's going to aggressively involve herself in religion and you may find yourself pushed completely to one side, and then you'll be completely unable to help your girlfriend when she needs YOU the most.

TL;DR: Less about you and your opinions, more about your girlfriend and the support she needs.

OwenM · 29-08-2013 08:57PM

Getting married has legal and financial implications for you both long into the future. It might suit them to have a member 'of means' i.e in receipt of a regular payment from you if you were to divorce.

Aseth · 29-08-2013 09:26PM

I have a best friend who is Jehovah's witness and how it works for us - we don't discuss religion. Full stop. Her family never mentions it to me either and they are all really nice people.
However your situation is somewhat different as your gf is trying to convince you to change your view on religion and possibly join them as well.
You need to seriously talk to her and maybe explain that as much as you are going to respect whatever religion she chooses you are not going to change your views just to suit her. BUT I would be concerned about her changing attitudes towards your sister and how much influence members of her church have on her life.
If she is grieving her mother's passing maybe she should rather talk to a councellor?

Girlfriend joining a cult?

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