Girlfriend joining a cult?

LegacyUser

Hi...going anon for this

so my gf has had jehovah's witnesses coming round once or twice a week to study some book with her. She has really changed, and not really for the better. We aren't bad people. I don't drink, don't don drugs or anything but she has suddenly become really judgemental about peoples choices. My sister is lesbian and all of a sudden she won't have anything to do with her.
She also wants me to start studying with them, as apparently it will do me some good. Now this is where it gets complicated. I am athiest and currently am training to be a doctor. I do not believe in god, i do not like the witnesses based on their believes about blood or about their believes in many other things. My gf is saying she wants us to get married so she can get baptised or something.
I am out of my head with work as any junior doctor would be - when I am not working, I am trying to recover from working, or else keeping up to date with papers and doing my own paperwork. I don't want to get married just to please some group of people, especially a religious group that I have no interest in joining.

Is this the end of the road for us? Does anyone have any info on what these people really believe? I scanned through the book and the reasoning and logic is infantile at best.

IrishEyes19

Im going to be perfectly honest and I might get flamed for this. I do not like those cult groups including the one you have mentioned. They isolate you and are hateful. Id get out of there, OP.

jdsk2006

She sounds like she is being brainwashed op. Whatever you do DON'T marry her just yet

username123

Surely as a junior doctor you have the intelligence and medical training to know when someone is not behaving in a rational manner?

Im honestly not sure I believe the post at all because what you are asking is totally at odds with what your intelligence and education should be telling you.

bumper234

Run Dougal run quite fast.


But seriously she is getting sucked into their cult and you should as her BF try to help her but if she is trying to force you to get involved then maybe you need to rethink your relationship with her.

Stavro Mueller

Would it be worth contacting an organisation such as Dialogue Ireland for advice? http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/

Rosy Posy

I have some experience with Jehovah's Witnesses- being a weirdo magnet and generally conscious of being respectful of others' religious beliefs they started calling around to my house periodically for a while, until I got the guts to tell them that I didn't agree with their views on homosexuality, nor could I believe that the bible was the one true word of God.

Anyway, I did some research on them and a couple of things stood out for me. They are not allowed to associate with anyone outside of the faith unless they are actively trying to convert them. This means that if your gf is serious about joining them and you are clear on your belief system then shortly she will have to make a you-or-them choice. Until then most of your conversations will be around her trying to accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your one true saviour.

Afaics the central tenet of the religion is that all the answers are in the literal words of the Bible, hence their homophobia. There are also a lot of other crazy things in the Bible, here are some points that you might be able to raise with her/them.

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination… End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Your adoring fan.
James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum,
Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

I really feel for you going through this as a junior doctor, it's a stressful time. I wonder if you could enlist the help of some of your gf's close friends and family and stage an intervention of sorts? Maybe explain your concerns and your unwillingness to lose her to this religion. I wonder if she is feeling lost and vulnerable atm? I get the feeling that these people target people like this- they started calling to me when I was at home with a newborn and starved of adult company. I realise you're busy but perhaps you could try to build up a support network for your gf outside of these people?

goose2005

Here's a good page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

LegacyUser

I would contact MIKE GARDE
DIRECTOR DIALOGUE IRELAND
Phone: <Snip - we prefer not to post any numbers, even those publicly availalbe> 7/8 Lr Abbey St; Dublin 1
Web site: http://www.dialogueireland.org
Email address: info@dialogueireland.org

This man would be well known in dealing with people involved with cults and will be able to give you more advice in regards to this. Once you get advice you can then decide what to do.

From a previous post you may have to end the relationship if you are unwilling to get married or get involved with the jehovah's witnesses like she wants you to do.
My advice is try to help her if you can but unless she is willing to go away from them don't stay with her. You will be under a lot of pressure to get involved with the jehovah's witnesses if you stay together.

bp

I know and was in a Catholic school with practicing JV and they never tried to convert me - just saying so as not to tar an entire religion with the same brush.

That said there are always extremists and no one has the right to force their beliefs on you. My biggest worry would be her making you go against your sister...family or me should not be a choice in normal relationships.

clairefontaine

Is she over 18? If so she is free to choose what religion she wants, and yes believe it or to, those crackpots are a religion, as many other crackpots also are religions, and not a cult. Finer distinctions apply.

In other words, she's an adult ans she is changing. Nothing you can do about.

As a doctor, this could be a challenge for you especially if you had kids. No immunisations, for example.

dudara

OP - one thing you don't seem to mention is whether or not you have spoken to your girlfriend about all this? Has she given any reason why this is so appealing to her?

LegacyUser

OP here : First of all, thanks everyone for your responses

Surely as a junior doctor you have the intelligence and medical training to know when someone is not behaving in a rational manner?

Im honestly not sure I believe the post at all because what you are asking is totally at odds with what your intelligence and education should be telling you.

A bit much but I see your point. I know she isn't acting very rationally and it has had my spidey senses tingling for a while, i assumed that as a smart woman, she would get the same sense as well.

They are not allowed to associate with anyone outside of the faith unless they are actively trying to convert them. This means that if your gf is serious about joining them and you are clear on your belief system then shortly she will have to make a you-or-them choice. Until then most of your conversations will be around her trying to accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your one true saviour.

I got this vibe as well, but they said to her that you're free to associate with anyone, but the book that she studies says that you have to limit your association with those outside the faith for your own good.

Is she over 18? If so she is free to choose what religion she wants, and yes believe it or to, those crackpots are a religion, as many other crackpots also are religions, and not a cult. Finer distinctions apply.

In other words, she's an adult ans she is changing. Nothing you can do about.

Oh I know she is free to do what she wants, but this affects me as well - which is why I'm worried. Ultimately, it is her decision but at this point it isn't rational.

OP - one thing you don't seem to mention is whether or not you have spoken to your girlfriend about all this? Has she given any reason why this is so appealing to her?

At length. She lost her mother last year in an awful way (Car crash). A workmate of hers is the Jehovah's witness involved, who basically bombarded her with magazines and stuff about her mother isn't in heaven or hell, but is asleep in the ground waiting to be resurrected to a paradise earth where if she is a Jehovah's witness, she will see her again.

This is what I am up against, she misses her mum, but they took advantage of mourning person to recruit into their religion.

As for the other responses, thank you for those - I am going to reach out to Dialogue Ireland tomorrow to see what they can assist with.

iusedtoknow

I feel for you OP. I grew up with a witness, they are actually nice enough people but pretty misguided when it comes to being "normal".

He wasn't allowed join up with our schools teams (basketball etc) as they had to limit their exposure to us "bad associations".
They are only allowed marry other jehovah's witnesses and if you want to leave you are excommunicated. How do I know all this? He was excommunicated because he had the audacity to not believe it. He told the church elders (priests I think) that he was having doubts, and they basically threw him out.

His family wouldn't talk to him, even when his father died he had to sit at the back of the service.

I hope your GF sees sense, but they are pretty good at hiding the bad stuff that goes on in their religion. The wikipedia article above is pretty good.

FouxDaFaFa

weird_religion wrote: »

She lost her mother last year in an awful way (Car crash). A workmate of hers is the Jehovah's witness involved, who basically bombarded her with magazines and stuff about her mother isn't in heaven or hell, but is asleep in the ground waiting to be resurrected to a paradise earth where if she is a Jehovah's witness, she will see her again.

Oh God, OP. That is terrible. It would go some way to explaining why she's taken to it with such zeal.

You're faced with a very difficult decision as her judgement probably isn't the best right now. However, the way she's casually disregarding your sister solely because she's a lesbian would be more than enough for me to leave immediately. That's unacceptable.

December2012

Em, I think you need to take care of your girlfriend. She lost her mother suddenly and violently and she felt so vulnerable that she has sought solace from strangers.

Did you notice the signs? People don't do this overnight.

Who has been there for her? Who talks to her about her loss, cheers her up and helps to manage the void she is attempting to full with religion.

Who's to say the religion is bad? It's not my cup of tea, but it's hers.

So if I were you OP, I would not bring up the religion, but instead I would focus completely on my girlfriend and constructively help her process the grief, maybe with a grief counsellor.

You've dropped the ball in letting it get to this stage, pick it back up and help her with the underlying issue.

Benny_Cake

Sorry to hear about this OP, it's obviously a difficult situation for you.

There are plenty of websites out there on Jehovah's Witnesses. While many JWs are decent and sincere people, I find that is despite the Watchtower Society, which is highly controlling and quite manipulative. The stories out there from people who ended up being shunned by their families as a result of rejecting the faith are truly heartbreaking.

Given the personal trauma she has suffered, the JW vision of eternal life on a perfected Earth probably holds a lot of appeal for her. Not sure if I've any advice to give you. Something you could bring up with her are the repeated changes in doctrine that Witnesses have been expected to swallow over the last 100 years, particularly all the failed armageddon predictions.

Mixed faith relationships can work (I'm in one myself) but with a highly controlling and demanding group like Jehovah's Witnesses it is more difficult, that's for sure.

jimmycrackcorm

It sounds like she is still suffering the bereavement and has found something to fill the need to compensate.

Perhaps you could think about pushing her towards the idea of bereavement counselling that might not only be good for her but reduce the influence of the religion.

kylith

It sounds to me that she was looking for comfort after her mother passed, and this JW seized the opportunity to convert someone who was at a very vulnerable point.

I know that as a junior doctor you have very little time free, but you really, really need to sit down with your GF and talk to her; tell her that you're afraid that she's changing (she used to like your sister and now she doesn't), that you apologise for not being there enough after her mother passed (regardless of whether you were or you weren't this is a good thing to say), and that you're worried about your future together if she continues with the JWs. Explain gently how exclusionary they are, and tell her that you don't want to lose her.

Try to take some time off and go away for even a few days, just the two of you. Try encourage her to keep busy during the week so that she gets out of the habit of having the JWs over. Or maybe even introduce her to another bible or religious group, one that's just as happy to have her, but less judgemental than the JWs. She is probably looking for acceptance and support, don't let her find it in the wrong places.

heretochat

I agree with the other posters that say your girlfriend is vulnerable as a result of her bereavement and she is looking for something to fill that void in her life.

Again I appreciate that you have a very busy and worthwhile profession but you need to give her more if at all possible..

Bereavement counselling is the best thing for her (I lost my own mother a couple of years back and it was the only thing that helped me) and I would suggest that you direct her towards that if she is willing. She probably has a lot of grief, regret, anger etc. that she needs to get out of her system and as things stand she sees the JWs as the only outlet.

blatantrereg

It's not a matter of logic or intelligence. When there is enough emotional buy-in these things go out the window.

Nonetheless, it would be justifiable to break up with her over this. You probably don't have time for it, and you have a duty to avoid issues that might impact your ability to do your work. Your position carries a high level of responsibility.

It's not really clear how deeply you are involved. If you would prefer to just dump her and get rid of the hassle then yes that would be justified. If you are wondering what has happened to the woman you fell for; well she's been targeted while in a vulnerable state. Some of the other replies seem to give good suggestions about how to address that or where to seek further advice.

December2012

blatantrereg wrote: »

It's not a matter of logic or intelligence. When there is enough emotional buy-in these things go out the window.

Nonetheless, it would be justifiable to break up with her over this. You probably don't have time for it, and you have a duty to avoid issues that might impact your ability to do your work. Your position carries a high level of responsibility.

It's not really clear how deeply you are involved. If you would prefer to just dump her and get rid of the hassle then yes that would be justified. If you are wondering what has happened to the woman you fell for; well she's been targeted while in a vulnerable state. Some of the other replies seem to give good suggestions about how to address that or where to seek further advice.

I dont think its on to dump a grieving person who is clearly going through a very tough time, because of this.

Virgil°

December2012 wrote: »

I dont think its on to dump a grieving person who is clearly going through a very tough time, because of this.

It absolutely is. I think the OP should definitely try to get her to some professional bereavement counselling and also tip off her family as to his concerns.

However if push comes to shove and she won't take steps to help herself theres only so much the OP can do. And enduring a barmy cults effect on his relationships/work careers future is absolutely a dumpable offence.

afterglow

Hi OP

I hope you won't mind me offering my 2 cents worth here.
Firstly, you are to be admired/commended for your proffession. Your job is one of the most special and what you are doing is a really wonderful thing training to be a doctor.
I think, there is a few things you need to ask yourself about what's currently going on with your GF

1. Has she always been religious, or is it just since the Jehovah's witnesses came round and started talking to her that she's become interested? I ask this because, in essence, there is nothing wrong with her trying to find a spiritual path/start her own spiritual journey, even if it is in a way that others don't agree with.
2. Is it effecting your relationship in any way, either positively or negatively? I don't mean as you see it, because obviously if you thought it was positive you wouldn't be on boards looking for guidance on how best to handle the situation.
3. Would you be so concerned if your GF started showing interest in other religious faiths/groups/movements or is it just because it's the JW's?
One final point I'd make is that just because you think it's a cult/don't agree with the way they do things or their faith, doesn't mean it is. Not saying you are wrong to be concerned, and I did read the post that someone put up a few days ago about smighting their neighbours etc, and while I don't necessarily agree with taking the bible literally as they do, or their views on transfusions, it still doesn't make them a cult.
I hope you and your GF can work this Bout in a way that works for you both.
Best of luck.

LegacyUser

OP here

Thanks for all your responses

Em, I think you need to take care of your girlfriend. She lost her mother suddenly and violently and she felt so vulnerable that she has sought solace from strangers.

Did you notice the signs? People don't do this overnight.

I was there for her, i ended up basically dropping out for as long as i could to be around with her...still am there for her - however her workmate has tried to provide something I can't...hope. She misses her mum, and wants to see her again. She wasn't religious before this happened, she always saw herself as humanist, but now faced with this reality, she wants to believe she'll see her again. I have seen too much crap in my day to day life to ever believe there is a god, far less one that gives a crap (not that i would say this now)

2. Is it effecting your relationship in any way, either positively or negatively? I don't mean as you see it, because obviously if you thought it was positive you wouldn't be on boards looking for guidance on how best to handle the situation.
3. Would you be so concerned if your GF started showing interest in other religious faiths/groups/movements or is it just because it's the JW's?

Yes it is...she will no longer talk with my sister as she is "immoral" (a lesbian, in a civil relationship in the UK with a kid and another on the way). I love my sister and nieces to bits, and so did she until this happened. Now she doesn't want me to go over after the birth of my second nephew/niece due to the choices of it's mother.

As for another religious group...i am suspicious of any group that tries to de-code and put meaning on a book with no little empirical or historical evidence. I am a man of science and see faith as something to be suspicious of..

We've been together now 5 years and been through a lot in this time. We spoke this week about it, She is holding off on getting baptized in until next year, so she can understand a few more things. At a service or meeting she was at on Sunday she heard something that unsettled her, I don't know what but i hope against hope she is starting to see the bad (as well as the good)

Beruthiel

Try to get her to a counsellor OP.
She's clearly in a very vulnerable place and as with all cults/religions, they prey on that.

I would be very worried if my partner suddenly went down the religious route.
Someone who is an atheist and suddenly 'finds' god, is not in a happy place.

As for the JW, they do not allow blood transfusions.
What if you were to have children further down the line?
What if they needed a blood transfusion?
These are things I would be taking into consideration.

Witchie

I really don't think they were "preying no her" like some people like to think. In all probability she confided in her workmate about how she felt so lost and down since her mum died and her friend fully believes in her faith and tried to comfort her with it.

My best friend in college is a JW and a sweeter more sincere person you could not meet. She has never tried to tell me I am wrong in my life or get me to join them. I think that your gf was searching for something and this was on hand. I do think she needs to see someone for the trauma of losing her mum and maybe she will work through things without going further into religion.

Be there for her as much as you but if its too much for you then you might just have to walk away.

iguana

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it, if one of my brothers was gay and my partner suddenly found God and decided to have nothing more to do with him that would be it for me. I understand that her grief about her mother must be overwhelming her and this religious belief makes her feel as if it is helping her deal with her enormous loss but refusing to have anything more to do with your sister, just because she is gay is not at all ok.

Czarcasm

OP I've read through the thread a couple of times now, and I've read your responses, and to me (I would hope you don't take this as a personal criticism), you sound like someone who cares more about expressing your vehement opposition to religion, than actually focussing on the person.

Initially I thought your girlfriend was introduced to the Jehovahs by way of the door-to-door type. But it transpired it was actually through a colleague in work. I understand that you pride yourself on being a "man of science", but this isn't about you or your opposition to religion. It's about your girlfriend and right now, she's turning as you say to the only thing she sees as giving her hope. You're obviously capable of compassion given how you express your affection for your sister and her children, and maybe that's the kind of support your girlfriend feels she isn't getting from you, hence why she's under the impression that, well, it's pretty twisted logic in a way, but maybe she feels that the suppport she's getting from religion, might help you too.

You really need to try re-focus your efforts on not pointing out what you see is wrong with religion, but help her to see that YOU support her, so that she doesn't need to look elsewhere for support. The more you antagonise her and rip that support blanket away from her without replacing it with something else, the more she's going to aggressively involve herself in religion and you may find yourself pushed completely to one side, and then you'll be completely unable to help your girlfriend when she needs YOU the most.

TL;DR: Less about you and your opinions, more about your girlfriend and the support she needs.

OwenM

Getting married has legal and financial implications for you both long into the future. It might suit them to have a member 'of means' i.e in receipt of a regular payment from you if you were to divorce.

Aseth

I have a best friend who is Jehovah's witness and how it works for us - we don't discuss religion. Full stop. Her family never mentions it to me either and they are all really nice people.
However your situation is somewhat different as your gf is trying to convince you to change your view on religion and possibly join them as well.
You need to seriously talk to her and maybe explain that as much as you are going to respect whatever religion she chooses you are not going to change your views just to suit her. BUT I would be concerned about her changing attitudes towards your sister and how much influence members of her church have on her life.
If she is grieving her mother's passing maybe she should rather talk to a councellor?

ivytwine

OK might get slated for this too but however...

I have no problem with major religions if they offer comfort and solace to people, fair enough. However I have a problem with the likes of the JWs and I would be highly suspicious of their motives as well.

Every religion proscribes something, but there's a big difference between forbidding pork (as Islam and Judaism does) and preventing something life-saving like blood transfusions. There was a case in the High Court a number of years ago where parents were willing to let their kid die than go against this belief. In my view, this is dangerous, dangerous territory.

I think you need to sit down with her and listen to her. I know your hours are crazy. But just sit her down, ask her to talk, say does she want to talk about her mother and what happened. And then, you need to ask her what she feels she is gaining out of becoming involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The fact that she now thinks it's unacceptable to see your sister needs to be tackled. Ask her why she now has a problem with your sister. What has changed? Why was your sister a good person in her eyes until very recently and why is she now not?

This might hurt her and might not be a good idea but it might be an idea to ask her how she stands on blood transfusions. If one could have helped her mother, would that not have been a good thing.

Explain to her that you are a man of science. And that's not going to change. Somewhere along the line there will have to be a choice.

IrishEyes19

I have a huge problem with this group and others of a similar nature and Im not afraid of saying it. Ive always believed in let people believe in what they want as long as it doesnt hurt or cause damage to people. thats all I ask for.

But the majority of what this group stands for disgusts me. From the mere isolation of family and friends, to what you are expected to give up because apparently its not proper. ie, Christmas and the likes. Its worrisome. Its like breaking a person down to having absolutely nothing to depend but the people who are in the same group and thats dangerous. because you are then vunerable.

you can talk to her OP, but I believe it may push her further into the fold of this group. Its hard to advise you on the matter, but I hope you dont get pulled into the same situation. I really cant emphasise enough how important it is to be a person free to choose and live life as you want safely and goodly. And this group takes that away completely. try and talk to her, hope you are successful

Baked.noodle

Remind her that when you started out together both of your beliefs where for the most part compatible. What either of you believed didn't interfere or conflict with both your plans for the future. However, now, it's like she told you one day that she was going to move to the north pole and if you are unwilling to go with her you are being unreasonable. I think you need to tell her that if she persists with her unquestioning commitment to the JW, you will not be able to follow her. The very idea that your loved ones should be persecuted by god and her offends you. You must be clear an honest with her in your beliefs and your needs. I hope you can reach her somehow, but if you can't you can't. It might help if she got some bereavement counselling, but whatever happens make the line in the sand clear.

silverharp

JW or Born Agains they are all the same , dump her and move on, your relationship will go down a cul de sac

banquo

I agree with most of the advice here.

Furthermore, since viewing this thread a few hours ago I have gotten Google ads for almost nothing but mormon websites, and the Book Of Mormon musical in London.

LegacyUser

When I first read this, I thought that's terrible, he should leave her but i've changed my opinion having read your second post. OP, the fact you left out such a huge piece of information (her mother dying) and stated when your not working your recovering from work, speaks volumes. Your gfs behaviour is unhealthy but she obviously is not in a good place. It doesn't sound like your really there for her? Sorry if i'm wrong. Do you speak to her often about her mam, ask her how she is?

mcmoustache

Czarcasm wrote: »

TL;DR: Less about you and your opinions, more about your girlfriend and the support she needs.

I don't think that's fair. There are practical poblems that come with partners joining cults - family, marriage and children, for example, are going to cause all sorts of conflict (already outlined in this thread). It's only reasonable to be concerned. The OP's lack of superstitious belief isn't the problem here.

If the girl stays in the cult, they will either turn her against the OP or try to have him converted. There is no way that she'll be marrying outside of the cult.

The OP has also made it clear that he won't be buying into their brand of crazy or anyone else's brand of crazy.

As bad as it sounds, the OP doesn't have many options here. If the poor girl falls for this and fully joins, the relationship will be over. Simple as that.

The problem pretty much reduces itself to "how to keep her away from that cult" because if that fails, the relationship will be over.

Czarcasm

mcmoustache wrote: »

I don't think that's fair. There are practical poblems that come with partners joining cults - family, marriage and children, for example, are going to cause all sorts of conflict (already outlined in this thread). It's only reasonable to be concerned. The OP's lack of superstitious belief isn't the problem here.

If the girl stays in the cult, they will either turn her against the OP or try to have him converted. There is no way that she'll be marrying outside of the cult.

The OP has also made it clear that he won't be buying into their brand of crazy or anyone else's brand of crazy.

As bad as it sounds, the OP doesn't have many options here. If the poor girl falls for this and fully joins, the relationship will be over. Simple as that.

The problem pretty much reduces itself to "how to keep her away from that cult" because if that fails, the relationship will be over.

Is the OP going to get his knickers in a twist every time a patient says that God worked His miracles through the OP? That's going to drive the OP spare, and that's while they're still only a junior doctor.

Do you not see how the OP is looking at the overhead of the problem and looking for how to treat the immediate issue without treating the underlying cause? The problem isn't that his girlfriend might be seeking comfort in the JW. The problem is that his girlfriend is seeking comfort in anything that will give her that comfort. It could just as easily have been alcohol or drugs.

His girlfriend is in pain and the OP is only concerned about how to stop her seeking comfort in the one place she seems to find comfort. The OP says he cannot offer her hope, but if he drops the "man of science" bullshìt and shows his girlfriend some empathy, that has more chance of drawing her away from the JW and back to him if that's what he really wants, because seeing his empathy will give her hope.

The OP as a junior doctor will have to learn to empathise with his patients, that's the most important lesson in medicine right after the Hippocratic Oath, and is drilled home before he even so much as picks up a scalpel.

FouxDaFaFa

Czarcasm, you make some good points, but I think the immediate problem is that OP's girlfriend is treating his sister badly because of her sexual orientation.

How much should he reasonably accept before saying he's had enough? I don't think it's cold of him to say he's having difficulty with this, when it's not just the religion that is in play, but relationships with his own family.

I feel very sorry for OP's girlfriend but I don't think OP should be demonised for saying he's unhappy with the situation.

clairefontaine

JH is not a cult. It's a religion. She's an adult and free to join it if she wants.

Czarcasm

clairefontaine wrote: »

JH is not a cult. It's a religion. She's an adult and free to join it if she wants.

Tbh I think that point is lost on posters at this stage as it's more important to "save" the OP's girlfriend from religion. It's a delicious irony if it wasn't actually such a serious issue we're supposed to be talking about here.

The OP's girlfriend didn't turn stupid overnight either, and the OP seems to have completely missed the point that his girlfriend has gotten so close to her co-worker, regardless of the fact that religion is involved, his girlfriend is confiding in someone else about her pain because she feels the OP with his "man of science" mantra will never understand what his girlfriend is FEELING.

It sounds to me like OPs girlfriend isn't so much saying things about his sister out of hatred or spite, she's saying it because she knows it gets to the OP, she wants him to feel something, anything like she's feeling.

The OP of course is completely missing all these symptoms of a deeper issue because he's only concerned with what he can see on the surface. The issue isn't a religious one, that's only how the deeper issue is presenting. The deeper issue is his girlfriend perceives no empathy from the OP whom she obviously cares about deeply, which frustrates her because the OP is able to show empathy and compassion for his sister.

I could be wrong of course, but I think it's something the OP should consider instead of just focussing on one symptom of a multi-faceted issue.

Baked.noodle

I think its a stretch to assume the OP has no empathy for his girlfriend and her feelings, at least from the limited information he has provided.

she has suddenly become really judgemental about peoples choices. My sister is lesbian and all of a sudden she won't have anything to do with her.

Sounds to me that his girlfriend is the one without empathy.

My gf is saying she wants us to get married so she can get baptised or something.

This sounds very selfish.

mcmoustache

clairefontaine wrote: »

JH is not a cult. It's a religion. She's an adult and free to join it if she wants.

Oh, well that sorts that then. I guess we can tell the OP to go home and not to worry and just suck it up.

Czarcasm

Baked.noodle wrote: »

I think its a stretch to assume the OP has no empathy for his girlfriend and her feelings, at least from the limited information he has provided.



Sounds to me that his girlfriend is the one without empathy.



This sounds very selfish.

Think about that for a minute, now just hold that thought.

What's the worst thing you can do or say to a person who considers themselves a man of science with a lesbian sister? What's the best way to get their attention?


It wouldn't be to constantly shove religion in their face would it? The lesbian hating thing comes as standard in most major organised religions.

His girlfriend isn't stupid, and she could've broken up with him months ago knowing his vehement opposition to religion, but she hasn't. Why not? Because she doesn't actually want to. She just wants the OP to notice that she's in pain and she doesn't want to lose him too! She just wants him to show some empathy for how she feels and stop with this man of science nonsense.

The OP is studying Medicine, not Mechanics.

Baked.noodle

Look the guy is entitled to his philosophy as well. He can't in good conscience say to her everything will be rosy in the afterlife if he doesn't believe that to be the case. The thing is, he has been consistent with his beliefs for years, whilst in a very short period the girlfriend has went from humanist to fundamentalist. I couldn't go out with a fundamentalist, so I certainly don't expect him to. Furthermore, he has not made many demands from her but she on the other hand now wants it all her way. What should he do, become a JW because it will be sensitive to her needs?

Aseth

Baked.noodle wrote: »

Look the guy is entitled to his philosophy as well. He can't in good conscience say to her everything will be rosy in the afterlife if he doesn't believe that to be the case. The thing is, he has been consistent with his beliefs for years, whilst in a very short period the girlfriend has went from humanist to fundamentalist. I couldn't go out with a fundamentalist, so I certainly don't expect him to. Furthermore, he has not made many demands from her but she on the other hand now wants it all her way. What should he do, become a JW because it will be sensitive to her needs?

Everyone dies and that's the fact. I don't think anyone can expect answers as what happens next however said gf expects some support, compassion and being there for her. And it looks like it's missing otherwise she wouldn't start confiding in strangers instead of finding comfort in who should be closest person to her. I suspect (similar to Czarcasm) that religion is giving her certain comfort she's not getting at home.

Baked.noodle

I am sure the guy is being as nice as he can to his girlfriend. Do you really think the OP has nothing comforting to offer his GF? Do you think that because he believes in science he doesn't try to talk with her and comfort her? I hope you are wrong. I think he must surly argue over this stuff, especially when his sister is being attacked. If he does, I don't think he is being unreasonable. I would feel personal responsibility to be honest with her about my concerns. What religion offers her is a unsubstantiated happy ever after. Some religions are socially friendly, some are manipulative, judgemental, brainwashed, exclusionary cults. JW may not officially be a cult, but as far as I'm concerned the JW are bad news. I would have no qualms in telling them to get lost.

johnnyskeleton

Czarcasm wrote: »

The OP of course is completely missing all these symptoms of a deeper issue because he's only concerned with what he can see on the surface. The issue isn't a religious one, that's only how the deeper issue is presenting. The deeper issue is his girlfriend perceives no empathy from the OP whom she obviously cares about deeply, which frustrates her because the OP is able to show empathy and compassion for his sister.

I could be wrong of course, but I think it's something the OP should consider instead of just focussing on one symptom of a multi-faceted issue.

I'm sure the OP is not lacking in empathy, but that's the only comfort that he can give her (or indeed most people could give). The Jehovah's Witnesses are giving her false hope of her mothers ressurection and its difficult to compete with that.

As to what he should do, he clearly cares about his girlfriend so he should make sure she is not misled. Not force his own views on her but just to make sure she has come to her religious views of her own free will without undue pressure and that she truly understands what the JH are asking her to do. Hopefully she will see sense but if not, I'm afraid the best advice to the OP might be to consider if there is a future in the relationship. If she is genuinely converted to their views, she will probably feel the same.

Baked.noodle

Czarcasm

Baked.noodle wrote: »

Look the guy is entitled to his philosophy as well. He can't in good conscience say to her everything will be rosy in the afterlife if he doesn't believe that to be the case. The thing is, he has been consistent with his beliefs for years, whilst in a very short period the girlfriend has went from humanist to fundamentalist. I couldn't go out with a fundamentalist, so I certainly don't expect him to. Furthermore, he has not made many demands from her but she on the other hand now wants it all her way. What should he do, become a JW because it will be sensitive to her needs?

noodle you're completely missing the point, and I don't know how much longer the Moderators will leave this thread open as the OP hasn't been back to it in a while. His girlfriend is coping as best she can with a traumatic experience, and the OP while of course he is entitled to be a "man of science", he is first and foremost a human being, capable of empathy and compassion.

His girlfriend is a humanist, she needs to see humanity. This JW guy is offering her the humanity and compassion she seeks. She'll buy into whatever she can relate to, whatever resonates with her. The OP doesn't get this because they're more concerned with coming up with rational arguments against a particular religion to challenge his girlfriend with in the hope that she'll see sense.

The OP might as well be pissing up against a wall and getting his own back for all the good challenging his girlfriend over religion will do. That's only going to strengthen her belief that her boyfriend doesn't understand her and the JW crew do.

What the OP needs to realise is that for his girlfriend, it's not about science, it's not about religion, it's about humanity, and compassion, compassion that she feels she isn't getting from him, but knowing he's capable of it, and the way she sees it is her boyfriend is more concerned about his scientific principles than he is about the fact that his girlfriend is hurting inside and just needs something to hold on to and something to give her hope.

Too much to ask for the boyfriend to step down off his "my intellect is mightier than thy infantile religion" pedestal for five minutes and try and see things from his girlfriends perspective as a human being?


Some of the best scientists and medical practitioners in the world, in history, were also deeply religious, and could easily separate the two philosophies, because they were able to see beyond their own principles and with their humanity they were able to empathise with another human being who was suffering.