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SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

13567…33

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  • #62
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    I find the rebuttals remarkable. I ask a question if we really care about Syria, wonder where why usual anti war movement have gone into hiding and all I get is "You don't care about Syria either!!" Excellent debating lads, well done! One would think this is still primary school.

    Care to debate ANY of the points I made or would you rather attack the poster that made them.... anyone?


    Sure why or how would most of us know about the anti-war crowd?


  • #63
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    So your argument is because that I agree with 100% of Israel and US foreign policy (check my post history, you are wrong)therefore my questions are not worthy of a mention never mind an answer.

    Classic rebuttal there Wes, well done. So the next time Israel does something you don't approve of will sit on your hands or will you be there to condemn them in all your might and glory never mind safety on living in Ireland. Easy to be a activist in a middle class setting.

    Anyone else actually care to answer the questions or are we running with continuous ad hominem attacks....


  • #64
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    jank wrote: »
    I find the rebuttals remarkable. I ask a question if we really care about Syria, wonder where why usual anti war movement have gone into hiding and all I get is "You don't care about Syria either!!" Excellent debating lads, well done! One would think this is still primary school.

    Care to debate ANY of the points I made or would you rather attack the poster that made them.... anyone?

    Well looking back at every post you've made in this thread you've spoken more about left wingers, people who are anti-Israel and US and anti-war people than you have about the actual conflict that your asking people do they care about.

    The only points to make a rebuttal against have little to do with the Syrian conflict itself because you've hardly mentioned it.


  • #65
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    wes wrote: »
    The entire thread is an attack on ... whoever doesn't take a 100% pro-American/Israel position

    And in particular savage failed neocon foreign policy and in the case of the US and flagrant flouting of overwhelming international consensus on illegal colonising of the West Bank in the case of Israel.

    Useful idiocy on behalf of chicken-hawk neocon degenerates, the corporate/security industrial complex and the US' full spectrum superiority doctrine.


  • #66
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    And in particular savage failed neocon foreign policy and in the case of the US and flagrant flouting of overwhelming international consensus on illegal colonising of the West Bank in the case of Israel.

    Useful idiocy on behalf of chicken-hawk neocon degenerates, the corporate/security industrial complex and the US' full spectrum superiority doctrine.

    Ah ok, blame america for Syria. It easier I suppose.....


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  • #67
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jank wrote: »
    So your argument is because that I agree with 100% of Israel and US foreign policy (check my post history, you are wrong)therefore my questions are not worthy of a mention never mind an answer.

    100% was in fairness an exaggeration, but the rest is still true.
    jank wrote: »
    Classic rebuttal there Wes, well done.

    Why, thank you. Yes, yes, I know you being sarcastic.
    jank wrote: »
    So the next time Israel does something you don't approve of will sit on your hands or will you be there to condemn them in all your might and glory never mind safety on living in Ireland. Easy to be a activist in a middle class setting.

    I never claimed to be an activist, and tbh those who defend Israel and the US, could easily be accused of the same here, after all, your pretty safe as well. Its pretty silly thing to say, as most of us who live here (or in your case New Zealand?) are perfectly safe.


  • #68
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Where am I defending the actions of the US or Israel explicitly? Because one points out the hypocrisy of the professional anti western activist doesn't mean they are in bed with American and Israeli foreign policy. Also I don't live in NZ.


  • #69
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Where am I defending the actions of the US or Israel explicitly? Because one points out the hypocrisy of the professional anti western activist doesn't mean they are in bed with American and Israeli foreign policy. Also I don't live in NZ.


    ...well no one here is a member of anti-war afaik, yet you feel free to talk as if we were.....


  • #70
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jank wrote: »
    Also I don't live in NZ.

    Mis-read your location then.


  • #71
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...well no one here is a member of anti-war afaik, yet you feel free to talk as if we were.....

    Touchy, I never said you or anyone else were, I was making a general statement on a discussion forum, fancy that!

    However, is it surprising you of all people are defending them in some way by the usual whataboutery mentioning Papua of all places? Seems to be one can't have an opinion, pointing out blatant hypocrisy which is not at all contested mind you but instead we get ad-hominon attacks on the poster which can be generally summed up by "you don't care about Syria either". Well if that is the only defence people can use then I think my point is proven. People don't give a **** so stop pretending like you do when the Americans or Israeli's do something you disapprove of.


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  • #72
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,950 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Galloway has figured it out *ahem*

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPzvy808pr8


  • #73
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭brimal


    I don't think anyone can deny Israel gets a disproportionate amount of attention when there is much worse goings-on around the globe (particularly in the Muslim world)

    I don't buy this 'Israel are part of the West so they should be condemned more' at all. A death, oppression, human rights abuses is the same no matter where it is, there should be a lot more even spread if attention


  • #74
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Hande hoche! wrote: »
    Galloway has figured it out *ahem*

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPzvy808pr8

    "Israel gave Al Qaeda chemical weapons.."

    all spoken on an Iranian news channel

    George you classy bastard


  • #75
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    brimal wrote: »
    I don't think anyone can deny Israel gets a disproportionate amount of attention when there is much worse goings-on around the globe (particularly in the Muslim world)

    Some places are just out of the public eye unfortunately. West Papua rarely gets a mention, nor does Western Sahara. The death toll in the Congo over the last 20 years has been enormous, but that enormity is largely unknown.

    There are two factors that effect the attention directed at Israel, however -

    "Israel" and the colonisation issue has been going on continuously since 1967.

    Syria, Iran, formerly Libya, Southern Sudan, Zimbabwe, North Korea etc are all under sanctions. Israel is not. Ne'er a one.


  • #76
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    "Israel gave Al Qaeda chemical weapons.."

    all spoken on an Iranian news channel

    George you classy bastard


    You leave Meow Man alone.


  • #77
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Nodin wrote: »
    You leave Meow Man alone.

    He's considering running for London Mayor... oh please please let this happen


  • #78
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    jank wrote: »
    Obviously not as I have heard or seen very on boards or other Irish websites about the chemical attack that has killed over 1,300 people two days ago.
    Can we expect the creme de la creme of the Irish anti-war movement to do something about this? Eh.. no they are too busy asking for Bradley Manning to be released.
    http://irishantiwar.org/view/events


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056353602

    On the 10/08/2011 I started a thread (above)Where is all the posts & posters to condemn syrian slaughter of its people,and pointed out if it was Israli attacks the boards be full of threads about it, I was accussed of being pro Isreali and rightwing etc etc, So I actually agree with you OP.


  • #79
    theSHU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭theSHU


    donegal_road wrote: »
    saw this post on Facebook a few minutes ago

    Hmmm no mainstream news organisation reported that and it looks like a fabrication. All the reports link back to Alex Jones.

    That said I'd say it was a 50:50 chance that it was Assad or the rebels that luanched the gas attack. I actually think the rebels are worse than the regieme and wouldn't support a cent of money going towards that whole mess.


  • #80
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    donegal_road wrote: »
    saw this post on Facebook a few minutes ago

    The article links to a website of less than stellar standards and the video doesn't really do much for credibility either but the Mail article have some solid stuff in it and the fact that it was scrubbed from their website recently is fairly odd.

    None of this surprises me. When you are talking about the US you are talking about a country who have caused he death of more civilians than anyone else sicne the end of WWII and have, in the past, even considered false flag attacks on their own citizens to justify a full scale invasion of Cuba.


  • #81
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Touchy, I never said you or anyone else were, I was making a general statement on a discussion forum, fancy that!

    However, is it surprising you of all people are defending them in some way by the usual whataboutery mentioning Papua of all places? Seems to be one can't have an opinion, pointing out blatant hypocrisy which is not at all contested mind you but instead we get ad-hominon attacks on the poster which can be generally summed up by "you don't care about Syria either". Well if that is the only defence people can use then I think my point is proven. People don't give a **** so stop pretending like you do when the Americans or Israeli's do something you disapprove of.


    ...joycean. Finnegans wake era


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  • #82
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    This report has statements from some of the medical staff on the ground as well as specific locations, pictures etc. Graphic warning.

    From

    The Centre of Violations Documentation documents Violations of human rights; particularly the names of the martyrs and detainees of the Revolution in line with international standards to document human rights violations envisaging precision and with the help of a team of human rights activists to oversee the development and continuation of the operation.

    http://www.vdc-sy.info/index.php/en/reports//chemicaldamascussuburbs

    Special Reports :: Special Report on Use of Chemical Weapons in Damascus Suburbs

    Introduction
    During the first hours of Wednesday 21st August 2013, the regime committed another horrific crime against civilians leaving hundreds death and casualties in an area that had been already bombarded by the regime forces on daily basis, and that had been besieged for long months, which made it impossible to provide the simplest needs of life for hundreds of thousands of the residents.


    The regime's army bombed several villages and towns in Damascus Eastern and Western Gotas with dozens of rockets loaded with chemicals. This attack has been the severest since the regime began using chemical weapons against rebellious regions. the irony is that this attack, the severest of its kind, happened concurrently with the presence of the experts committee assigned to disclose the use of chemicals in Damascus, following their arrival to Syria on 8/18/2013, taking into consideration that the authorization granted for the Commission is confined to areas agreed upon with the same regime that is carrying on attacks with chemical weapons. Thus, this committee does not live up to the task of proving the use of chemical weapons, but only to that of whether that weapon has been used or not.


    In details: each of Zamalka and Ein Tarma in Eastern Gota and Mou'adamieh in Western Gota were bombed with dozens of rockets loaded with toxic agents, which claimed the lives of hundreds, mostly women and children. Moreover, hundreds sustained injury. those areas woke up to an indescribable humanitarian disaster concerning, especially, the huge number of cases that sought the medical points that have been under siege ,suffering the lack of both the medical staffs and the most basic equipment needed to face similar situations.


    Immediately, the field team of VDC in Syria that exists in the East Gota, visited- directly after the attacks- more than 80% of the Medical points that received the injured and the victims in East Gota to get testimonies of patients and paramedics, as well as some of the sites that had been bombed with chemicals, to find out the truth of what happened and to provide clear and precise information about the attack and its victims.


  • #83
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    jank wrote: »
    It makes no sense to shurg your shoulders if an African dictator launches a war that kills millions
    Not seeing many, if any, people shrugging their shoulders at same.
    but if a western democratic nation intervenes in a conflict to get all uppidy about it.
    No I don't re the US and UK. I'm talking about Israel, which is entitled to defend itself, but the disproportionate manner in which it does so is unnecessary.


  • #84
    Dick Masterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭Dick Masterson


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Not seeing many, if any, people shrugging their shoulders at same.

    No I don't re the US and UK. I'm talking about Israel, which is entitled to defend itself, but the disproportionate manner in which it does so is unnecessary.

    What about all those times Israel refrained from retaliating to rocket attacks?

    What about all those times Hamas would launch rockets from people's personal property, just so Israel's return fire will strike some family's home?

    Hamas are basically sacrificing their own kind just to play to the media and get sympathy the lefties in Europe, though, many of those lefties don't actually care for the Palestinians, they're justaligning themselves with the enemies of capitalist America, just like the way they sided with Saddam during the Iraq invasion. Very "liberal" of them to align themselves with Islamo-facists.
    What Jank said is true: the commies/socialists/whatevers don't actually care about Palestine, they only care about their political ideology - most of the ones I've encountered anyway (I know an anarchist who supports Israel, but I don't take him and his political views seriously because he's an anarchist).


  • #85
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Not seeing many, if any, people shrugging their shoulders at same.

    No I don't re the US and UK. I'm talking about Israel, which is entitled to defend itself, but the disproportionate manner in which it does so is unnecessary.

    You don't **** with the Jews. Any idea what it feels like to be surrounded by enemies? None of us do.


  • #86
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Dick Masterson wrote: »
    What about (..........) because he's an anarchist).

    ....there's more to it than Hamas, you know.
    Clairefontaine wrote:
    Any idea what it feels like to be surrounded by enemies? None of us do. .

    I'm fairly sure that if I had the bomb and was building detached housing and shoppig facilities on their land I wouldn't be too worried


  • #87
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,604 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Dick Masterson wrote: »
    What about all those times Israel refrained from retaliating to rocket attacks?

    What about all those times Hamas would launch rockets from people's personal property, just so Israel's return fire will strike some family's home?

    Hamas are basically sacrificing their own kind just to play to the media and get sympathy the lefties in Europe, though, many of those lefties don't actually care for the Palestinians, they're justaligning themselves with the enemies of capitalist America, just like the way they sided with Saddam during the Iraq invasion. Very "liberal" of them to align themselves with Islamo-facists.
    What Jank said is true: the commies/socialists/whatevers don't actually care about Palestine, they only care about their political ideology - most of the ones I've encountered anyway (I know an anarchist who supports Israel, but I don't take him and his political views seriously because he's an anarchist).

    i'd actually agree with some of what you and jank are saying, but as usual with these posts they portray hypocrisy and duplicity as unique to lefties, when that is clearly not the case
    what about those on the right who pretend to care for civilians but really don't when they always excuse state violence from certain actors. also don't be so short-sighted as to suggest allying with dodgy groups is the preserve of those you call lefties, when the right has done it as well. you are identifying traits that are in people who rigidly stick to their ideology tenets, this is done by both right- wing and left- wing people. for some reason jank chose to point it out in lefties, but not in righties.


  • #88
    NoNewFriends
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 62 ✭✭NoNewFriends


    Dick Masterson wrote: »
    Hamas are basically sacrificing their own kind just to play to the media and get sympathy the lefties in Europe, though, many of those lefties don't actually care for the Palestinians, they're justaligning themselves with the enemies of capitalist America, just like the way they sided with Saddam during the Iraq invasion. Very "liberal" of them to align themselves with Islamo-fascists.

    This is what I don't understand about the Left. They're very vocal about support for gay rights, women's rights, minority rights, freedom of religion etc yet they support Palestine?! Do they not realise that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where homosexuals can be free, where women aren't forced to wear bin bag liners in 40°C heat and where logic and science comes before religious belief.

    We've already had a taste of things to come in a Palestinian-ruled Gaza where boys and girls must be educated separately and they are raised to hate the Jew.

    What annoys most people about the Left is their blatant hypocrisy.


  • #89
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    NoNewFriends wrote: »
    This is what I (.........)hypocrisy.

    Not that you'd generalise or anything.

    You'll find that being liberal on matters relating to women and homosexuals doesn't negate or outweigh colonialism and its attendant brutality.


  • #90
    NoNewFriends
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 62 ✭✭NoNewFriends


    So do you support gay rights or the Palestinians? It would be hypocritical to claim to support both.


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  • #91
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    NoNewFriends wrote: »
    So do you support gay rights or the Palestinians? It would be hypocritical to claim to support both.


    Not at all.

    And of course a gay Palestinian isn't going to be embraced by the Israelis now, is he?


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