SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

kneemos

wendell borton wrote: »

Hard to know what's going on in syria and the agendas of the combatants, except that civilians are suffering.
The best solution at the moment seems to be a Assad victory, devil you know and all that.

The bottom line is civilians are dying whoever's firing the bombs and the nature of the war that is being fought in towns and cities means more civilians will die.
If the west was to join in the war it's hard to know what side would be best to support.
Assad support might not have the publics backing.

Andy-Pandy

Who knows what to believe in this atrocity. I think its odd that on the day that Syria lets in UN chemical inspectors into the country that they would do something like this. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that it could have been done to place blame and pressure on Assad's regime. There is a proxy war going on in Syria (Iran, Hezbollah, Gulf States, The west) and the sad thing is the people dying are mostly innocent. Before this civil war Syria was far from perfect but it was a stable secular state where people of all religions lived safely side by side

Fratton Fred

kneemos wrote: »

The bottom line is civilians are dying whoever's firing the bombs and the nature of the war that is being fought in towns and cities means more civilians will die.
If the west was to join in the war it's hard to know what side would be best to support.
Assad support might not have the publics backing.

That's the entire point really, civilians are being killed and the UN is powerless to protect them.

The US won't upset Russia, NATO is powerless without the US and no one else is capable of doing anything.

NuckingFacker

America states "If we see evidence of chemical weapons being used, we will arm the rebels".
Two weeks later, the top story everywhere is a chemical weapon attack on civilians in Syria... no idea why, but to me it seems a bit convenient. But then I am a suspicious aloyisius.. and then Hague is on the news, with his big, baldy head on him, and you just know there's cnutery afoot..

Karl Stein

It's a civil war - what are we supposed to do? Everyone condemns violence against civilians regardless of what side they're on. If there was an ethnic minority being massacred by the Syrian state then I'm sure there'd be anti-Assad protests.

Also, as pablomakaveli has said, it's difficult to discern what's propaganda and what actually happening on the ground in Syria.

NuckingFacker wrote: »

to me it seems a bit convenient. But then I am a suspicious aloyisius..

Especially since it appears that the Assad regime is winning - why would they risk throwing away any gains by using chemical weapons and risking an overwhelming attack by the US/NATO?

Jonny7

Seaneh wrote: »

Watching ITV news today and they had a former military advisor to the bush regime and a chemical weapons expert. both confirmed that the victims didn't look like they'd been killed by nerve gas and the evidence they'd seen of the rocket pointed to a crude home made device.

I have no idea how you can say with such certainty who fired the missile. Seems to be a lot of the usual partisan views going on with this debate.

Whoever fired it, the result is pretty hideous.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/syria-missiles-similar-chemical-weapons-attack

NoNewFriends

It's an internal Syrian issue. Ireland should stay out of it. We shouldn't squander one cent of tax money on aid to the region and certainly shouldn't send troops there. Let's hope Gilmore doesn't try to play the big man again and embarrass us on the international stage by presenting his own twisted opinions as that of the Irish people. Like the time he said Hezbollah aren't a terrorist group (Rockets were fired into Israel from Lebanon today btw).

AndonHandon

It's quite easy for me to pass judgment and say "oh that's awful" but it is a civil war; both sides believe in what they are fighting for and who am I to express an opinion on the whole thing? It is easy to comment from far away and with such conflicting information being fed to me. As a result I neglect to comment in great detail or from the context of vast knowledge on Syria. I care in so much as my general views in relation to war are under attack;

I feel that chemical weapons are below the morals of war and that civilian deaths are always a tragedy of the highest order. I support the U.N and feel that international intervention is necessary if they feel it is necessary.

Femme_Fatale

wes wrote: »

The thread seems like a thinly veiled attack on certain groups of people, and would wager that the op is more concerned with taking a shot at these people, as opposed to any genuine concern for events in Syria.

If there was genuine concern for event in Syria, then there would be no pot shots taken at other people, who dare to be concerned about other horrible things happening in the world.

Spot-on. And Israel (the state) is supposed to be a democratic, western nation, hence people focusing on its hypocrisy.

I wish people would quit with all the "Nobody gives a sh1t" stuff too. Just because they don't care, doesn't mean they can speak for everyone else.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

...they never mention West Papua either. I guess they're just heartless.

No, just blatent hypocrites. Can we expect a 'peace' flotilla anytime soon on the way to the shores of Syria?

Galloway was forever critising the West while prasing his buddy Assad.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/PA-2515194.jpg

Galloway has for many years carried on close contacts with dictators and extremist elements in the Arab world. In the late 1990s, he was closely linked with Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, the Assad regime in Syria, Hamas in Gaza and the Iranian regime.

In July 2011, at a time when Assad was perpetrating massacres of his own people, Galloway was interviewed on Hezbollah’s al-Manar network, where he heaped praises on the Syrian president. “Bashar Assad wants reform and change, to realize the aspirations of his people,” he said in the interview, which was quoted in the official Syrian news agency Sana. “They are trying to pressure Syria and President Assad because of the good things that he did, such as supporting Palestinian and Lebanese resistance and rejecting to surrender to Israel.”

The biggest causality of the Arab Spring are the left wing anti-war movement. The fact is that crusty left wingers don’t really care about the average oppressed individual who is slaughtered in whatever regime they are ruled under. They much prefer getting up on their high horse in a leafy dublin suburb and feeling superior. God forbid that they actually go into an actual war zone! For years we had to listen to utterly clueless and naive tripe that emendated from that political sphere and media. The emperor has no clothes so to speak. More people are seeing through their nonsense and double speak.

jank

Yahir Shaggy Peg wrote: »

I suspect some of people are tired of war in the middle east and Persia.
....

...
When a Jew kills and Arab is a massacre.
But when an Arab kills an Arab no one gives a sh*t.

Agreed, vast majority of people don't care. Thats the hard truth.
However if USA or Israel are involved then you hear a chorus objections based on the fact that 'war is bad'. Those leading the choir are more interested in attacking America for political reasons rather then those who suffer in armed conflict.

Karl Stein

Galloway exposed as 'mother brain' of swarms of hive mind lefty anti-war liberals.

Incredible detective work, Sir.

jank

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Are you seriously using the chemical weapons attack as a tactic in what seems to be your own personal issue with the anti-war movement? The last time i saw your name you were trawling the socialist party's website or something for the same kind of thing, to use it against Richard Boyd Barrett. Bit warped isn't it.

I am just highlighting the maybe uncomfortable truth that most people don't really care about this attack or other conflicts in the world.

The fact of the matter is that the Irish anti-war movement who claim to be agaisnt all war is in fact not such a movement at all, they are more concerened with NATO, USA and Isreal foregin policy. The evidence in on their website.

Don't you really think its a bit odd that the biggest anti-war movement in the country is being silent on the biggest chemcial attack on humans since Saddam used them aggainst the Kurds, yet instead are organising an event for Bradley/Chelsea Manning and have representivies on radio only yesterday asking for his release. They even took time out to picket the US embassey. Dont you find their use of time/resources a little bit odd?

jank

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Spot-on. And Israel (the state) is supposed to be a democratic, western nation, hence people focusing on its hypocrisy.

It makes no sense to shurg your shoulders if an African dictator launches a war that kills millions but if a western democratic nation intervenes in a conflict to get all uppidy about it. It proves my point that you dont care about the average person being killed, you care more about your political ideaology. Think about that for a few minutes.

clairefontaine

They on,y care when the US or Isreal are involved and they can orgasm sanctimony.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

I am just highlighting the maybe uncomfortable truth that most people don't really care about this attack or other conflicts in the world.

The fact of the matter is that the Irish anti-war movement who claim to be agaisnt all war is in fact not such a movement at all, they are more concerened with NATO, USA and Isreal foregin policy. The evidence in on their website.

Don't you really think its a bit odd that the biggest anti-war movement in the country is being silent on the biggest chemcial attack on humans since Saddam used them aggainst the Kurds, yet instead are organising an event for Bradley/Chelsea Manning and have representivies on radio only yesterday asking for his release. They even took time out to picket the US embassey. Dont you find their use of time/resources a little bit odd?

....yes, well you have them sussed now, don't you.

jank

The entire world has them sussed apart from themselves.

NoNewFriends

Some very good insights and observations from poster jank. Note how those on the left choose to make flippant remarks and shrug their shoulders when confronted with the Irish anti-war movement's silence on the Syrian gas attacks. They still have no explanation for the organisation's selective blindness. It's very suspect that 90% of their time and energy is spent demonising Israel and the USA.

wes

jank wrote: »

No, just blatent hypocrites.

Your thread is blatant hypocrisy. You don't care about Syria, just taking shots at the left. Its pretty disturbing that you care so little for the people in Syria, that you would use there suffering, solely to attack people you disagree with politically.

NoNewFriends

wes wrote: »

Your thread is blatant hypocrisy. You don't care about Syria, just taking shots at the left. Its pretty disturbing that you care so little for the people in Syria, that you would use there suffering, solely to attack people you disagree with politically.

>Presents strawmen
>Uses ad hominems
>Avoids answering simple question

Why is the Irish Anti-War movement so deafeningly silent on one of the biggest war crimes in years?

Jonny7

Russia backing the UN investigation of attacks. There's little doubt over the large number deaths at this stage, definitely nerve or chemical agent involved.


The crucial question - who is responsible for the attack itself. Assad, rebels or external group.

wes

NoNewFriends wrote: »

>Presents strawmen
>Uses ad hominems

Its not a straw man, when its clear what the intention of the entire thread is. Also, pointing out the fact that this thread is one massive exercise in hypocrisy is not an ad hominem attack, I am attacking what the poster has posted, and not the poster themselves.

NoNewFriends wrote: »

>Avoids answering simple question

Why is the Irish Anti-War movement so deafeningly silent on one of the biggest war crimes in years?

I am not a member of that organisation, and as such not in a position to answer that question. Perhaps you should direct that question to the organisation itself. Amazing that you expect people who have nothing to do with an organisation to answer for them.

BTW, the thread is a general attack on the left and nothing more.

Still, your post is a perfect example of how little you care about Syria, and are more interested in attacking the left and others, who dare point out how such a thread is inherently a massive exercise in hypocrisy.

NoNewFriends

wes wrote: »

Its not a straw man, when its clear what the intention of the entire thread is. Also, pointing out the fact that this thread is one massive exercise in hypocrisy is not an ad hominem attack, I am attacking what the poster has posted, and not the poster themselves.

Orly?

wes wrote: »

Your thread is blatant hypocrisy. You don't care about Syria, just taking shots at the left. Its pretty disturbing that you care so little for the people in Syria, that you would use there suffering, solely to attack people you disagree with politically.

I am not a member of that organisation, and as such not in a position to answer that question. Perhaps you should direct that question to the organisation itself.

Like to hazard a guess? 90% of their events are based around attacking the USA and Israel. Hmmm...

BTW, the thread is a general attack on the left and nothing more.

Criticism of the Left will not be tolerated. Forgive, I forgot they are perfect.

Still, your post is a perfect example of how little you care about Syria, and are more interested in attacking the left and others, who dare point out how such a thread is inherently a massive exercise in hypocrisy.

You don't know anything about me. Please leave out your offensive accusations.

Toby Take a Bow

NoNewFriends wrote: »

Some very good insights and observations from poster jank. Note how those on the left choose to make flippant remarks and shrug their shoulders when confronted with the Irish anti-war movement's silence on the Syrian gas attacks. They still have no explanation for the organisation's selective blindness. It's very suspect that 90% of their time and energy is spent demonising Israel and the USA.

Plenty of posters have offered suggestions as to why there is (relatively) less said about Syria than Israel and America. The flippant remarks and shrugging of shoulders are made when nobody responds to them and repeats their initial, preformed ideas.

You have to engage in order to have a discussion.

wes

NoNewFriends wrote: »

Orly?

The poster doesn't care about Syria, the existence of this thread is proof of that. That was just a statement of fact. The thread is about attacking the left, and nothing more.

NoNewFriends wrote: »

Like to hazard a guess? 90% of their events are based around attacking the USA and Israel. Hmmm...

Not a member, and can't answer for them. You have clearly made up your mind.

NoNewFriends wrote: »

Criticism of the Left will not be tolerated. Forgive, I forgot they are perfect.

Criticize away, but people have every right to point out how hypocritical this entire thread is, and how disturbing it is that all the death and destruction is being used for someone own narrow political attacks on the left.

NoNewFriends wrote: »

You don't know anything about me. Please leave out your offensive accusations.

So criticism of the left is allowed, but its offensive when your on the receiving end.

Perhaps, using the suffering in Syria so that you can attack the left, is offensive to some, and it certainly perfect example of someone who could care less about it, and is using it solely to attack others.

pablomakaveli

jank wrote: »

I am just highlighting the maybe uncomfortable truth that most people don't really care about this attack or other conflicts in the world.

The fact of the matter is that the Irish anti-war movement who claim to be agaisnt all war is in fact not such a movement at all, they are more concerened with NATO, USA and Isreal foregin policy. The evidence in on their website.

Don't you really think its a bit odd that the biggest anti-war movement in the country is being silent on the biggest chemcial attack on humans since Saddam used them aggainst the Kurds, yet instead are organising an event for Bradley/Chelsea Manning and have representivies on radio only yesterday asking for his release. They even took time out to picket the US embassey. Dont you find their use of time/resources a little bit odd?

You don't care either so you're a big a hypocrite as those you criticize. You're using this tragedy as an excuse to attack people of an opposing viewpoint.

donegal_road

saw this post on Facebook a few minutes ago

Kinzig

donegal_road wrote: »

saw this post on Facebook a few minutes ago

Nothing that surprises me there..what beats me is that we all saw the whitewash job that was done on Iraq about WMDs in order to attack the country and stop them from trading oil for euros which was undermining the petro dollar...and yet there are people out there still willing to fall for the same **** twice...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

People should care about Syria because this could end up very much at your own door..

jank

I find the rebuttals remarkable. I ask a question if we really care about Syria, wonder where why usual anti war movement have gone into hiding and all I get is "You don't care about Syria either!!" Excellent debating lads, well done! One would think this is still primary school.

Care to debate ANY of the points I made or would you rather attack the poster that made them.... anyone?

wes

jank wrote: »

I find the rebuttals remarkable. I ask a question if we really care about Syria, wonder where why usual anti war movement have gone into hiding and all I get is "You don't care about Syria either!!" Excellent debating lads, well done! One would think this is still primary school.

Care to debate ANY of the points I made or would you rather attack the poster that made them.... anyone?

The entire thread is an attack on the left or whoever doesn't take a 100% pro-American/Israel position, and rather ham fisted one at that. Also, its perfectly valid to point out that those making the argument don't really care about Syria, but are rather just having a go at the left as they see it. Pretty typical type of thread that comes up every now and again.