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first abortion has taken place in Ireland (under new legislation)

24

Comments

  • #32
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    mango salsa wrote: »
    The fact that she was pregnant with twins, Naming the hospital and her medical conditions could all be used to identify her.

    I agree with Peter Boylan who was on Morning Ireland just now. This is an outrageous breach of patient confidentiality.

    I missed peter boylan...but I heard morning ireland earlier...they were almost salivating at the thoughts of getting tgis story first.


  • #33
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Tlachtga wrote: »
    Ah yeah, but if you knew of a woman attending Holles St who'd lost twins at 18 weeks within the past couple of months, you'd put two and two together ... there's enough info there for people who know her to identify her.

    She may well have just told people she'd had a miscarriage, I can't imagine she'd want everyone to know the exact circumstances of her loss.

    They could have just reported that a termination had taken place and the reasons for it, without mentioning the hospital or the fact that it was twins or exactly how far along the mother was.


    Most people aren't of the valley of twitching curtains any longer. Those that knew about the pregnancy Im sure still feel the same compassion for her as they would have been close to her.

    Reporting how far along the mother was and the twins piece I would agree is unnecessary


  • #34
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    danniemcq wrote: »
    They didn't release any details that could identify anyone in the article, there was a delay of several weeks between the termination and the release of the story.

    I believe this is a fairly important story that the public should know about and they done their best to ensure privacy of those involved.

    If it concerned my family or partner, I know I'd be mad as hell.:mad:

    Screw the public interest.


  • #35
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Hannibal Smith wrote: »
    Why should the public know about it?
    The public should know that these procedures are, in fact, carried out when necessary. Women have the right to know that, should they encounter the same difficulties, that everything will be done to save their lives. However this should be done by the HSE releasing statistics periodically in a way that does not identify any individual involved.
    What is wrong in this case is that the information was made public in such a way that the woman could be identified. That is not right.
    If there is any plus in this story, it is that women now can have confidence that Holles St. will be safe for them.


  • #36
    Dick Masterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭Dick Masterson


    This is a rare occasion where Irish people are delighted to hear about a baby being killed.


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  • #37
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Whilst I am glad our government finally got their act together to allow this to happen, I don't see the need for it to be reported.

    Consulants need to be allowed to go out carrying out their duty, and patients need to be able to receive that treatment with respect and dignity. Running a story on it is not dignified.


  • #38
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    efb wrote: »
    Most people aren't of the valley of twitching curtains any longer. Those that knew about the pregnancy Im sure still feel the same compassion for her as they would have been close to her.

    I would imagine that at 18 weeks - and especially with twins - plenty would have known about the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage, not just those close to her. Colleagues, acquaintances etc would all most likely have known at that stage.

    And it should have been her prerogative to decide exactly who to tell about the circumstances and when ... whether people would judge or not.


  • #39
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    the catholics must be spinning in their pews. the holy bread is going to taste very bitter this sunday.


  • #40
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Tlachtga wrote: »
    I would imagine that at 18 weeks - and especially with twins - plenty would have known about the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage, not just those close to her. Colleagues, acquaintances etc would all most likely have known at that stage.

    And it should have been her prerogative to decide exactly who to tell about the circumstances and when ... whether people would judge or not.

    Are people going to judge her differently if they knew she had a life saving termination? I'd hope not. Those that knew about the pregnancy most likely knew the pregnancy had ended. They whys and wherefores should be irrelevant


  • #41
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Also unless told by her, people cannot be certain that she was the case referred to


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  • #42
    bigneacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭bigneacy


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I'd say Youth Defence will keep their heads well down on this one. If they raise any objection, they will have to admit that they would prefer to see the woman die.

    Are you accusing the Youth Defence of having the power of logic and reasoning?


  • #43
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Leftist wrote: »
    the catholics must be spinning in their pews. the holy bread is going to taste very bitter this sunday.

    It takes a pretty twisted mind for the circumstances that would cause that to give you such cheer.


  • #44
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Tlachtga wrote: »
    Ah yeah, but if you knew of a woman attending Holles St who'd lost twins at 18 weeks within the past couple of months, you'd put two and two together ... there's enough info there for people who know her to identify her.

    She may well have just told people she'd had a miscarriage, I can't imagine she'd want everyone to know the exact circumstances of her loss.

    They could have just reported that a termination had taken place and the reasons for it, without mentioning the hospital or the fact that it was twins or exactly how far along the mother was.

    People putting 'two and two together? Do you know many people that would be into such crass speculation?


  • #45
    Condatis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 651 ✭✭✭Condatis


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Right after i pray to jeebus for me to win a medal in some sports event

    That's an odd sense of priorities.


  • #46
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    mango salsa wrote: »
    The fact that she was pregnant with twins, Naming the hospital and her medical conditions could all be used to identify her.

    I agree with Peter Boylan who was on Morning Ireland just now. This is an outrageous breach of patient confidentiality.

    My apologies I was judging the Irish Times article only. I was unaware that this story was leaked in such a way. I assumed that it was part of an offical release from the HSC or the hospital.

    However I still believe the public should know that this was carried out but not from a leak, i think public knowing that this isn't being carried out for no reason and is for genuine medical conditions is good.

    The privacy of those involved should be protected however


  • #47
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    heard this on Newstalk this morning and could not believe how much info was released


  • #48
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    conorhal wrote: »
    It takes a pretty twisted mind for the circumstances that would cause that to give you such cheer.

    there's no cheer.


  • #49
    baldbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭baldbear


    Poor lady. And for this to be aired to the public is shocking. RIP


  • #50
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    The public should know that these procedures are, in fact, carried out when necessary. Women have the right to know that, should they encounter the same difficulties, that everything will be done to save their lives. However this should be done by the HSE releasing statistics periodically in a way that does not identify any individual involved.
    What is wrong in this case is that the information was made public in such a way that the woman could be identified. That is not right.
    If there is any plus in this story, it is that women now can have confidence that Holles St. will be safe for them.

    I dont see how its important to know about a specific case. The law is there...people know its there...whether its acted upon or not shouldn't be headline news. Its a tragic case where a woman had lost her twins...its not a subject for public discussion. This is not how I thought this law would be dealt with.


  • #51
    LoonyLovegood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,068 ✭✭✭LoonyLovegood


    While I'm glad this woman could receive treatment, the fact that it has been broadcast to the nation in so much detail is heartbreaking. My heart goes out to her and her family.


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  • #52
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    efb wrote: »
    Are people going to judge her differently if they knew she had a life saving termination? I'd hope not. Those that knew about the pregnancy most likely knew the pregnancy had ended. They whys and wherefores should be irrelevant

    The point is...its no one else's business. The woman shouldn't be put in a position where shes owing to other people's humanity. Its her own private business.


  • #53
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    I find it really worrying that this termination has become public news. Do the parents not have the right to privacy? The loss of their children is tough enough to deal with without having the burden of seeing it being used by the media and general public as a mechanism to goad those who were on the opposite side of the debate.

    Is this going to happen every time these is a termination under the new ruling?


  • #54
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Leftist wrote: »
    there's no cheer.

    Smug self congratulation then?


  • #55
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    COYW wrote: »
    I find it really worrying that this termination has become public news. Do the parents not have the right to privacy? The loss of their children is tough enough to deal with without having the burden of seeing it being used by the media and general public as a mechanism to goad those who were on the opposite side of the debate.

    Is this going to happen every time these is a termination under the new ruling?


    I don't think it was used to goad anyone- the legislation was passed this is it in action.

    I'm happy that it made the decision of saving a woman's life easier.


  • #56
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    RIP to the little babies.


  • #57
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    efb wrote: »
    I don't think it was used to goad anyone- the legislation was passed this is it in action.

    I'm happy that it made the decision of saving a woman's life easier.

    I disagree. Publicly broadcasting the implementation of the law is not part of it in action in the real world. It distresses the couple further and adds unnecessary fuel to the pro-life/pro-choice fire.


  • #58
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Dick Masterson wrote: »
    This is a rare occasion where Irish people are delighted to hear about a baby being killed.

    There should be nothing unusual about this story at all, except for the fact that is a story of tremendous personal loss for the family. There is no need for the details of the event to be made public. This is not story about lives being ended, it is a story of a life saved and two lives being allowed to pass with dignity.

    There are interventions taking place daily in Ireland to allow terminally ill patients die with dignity. You will never hear indignation from the religious or conservative right, because it is something we all go through and people understand the humanitarian need for it. To protest the same humanity shown towards the unborn is just hypocritical.

    I wish the woman well in her recovery.

    Z


  • #59
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The mothers life was in danger

    So it was because her life was in danger, not because the foetuses were not viable? The new legislation does not allow for abortion if the foetuses are not viable.


  • #60
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    So it was because her life was in danger, not because the foetuses were not viable?

    The termination of the twin pregnancy was carried out on a patient who was almost 18 weeks’ pregnant in view of the risk to her life and the unviability of her pregnancy, according to sources at the hospital. Foetal heartbeat were present.
    It was performed under section 7, which deals with the risk of loss of life of a woman from physical illness. The controversial suicide provision and another provision covering medical emergencies were not invoked.

    You tell me


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  • #61
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    efb wrote: »
    People putting 'two and two together? Do you know many people that would be into such crass speculation?

    Sadly, there are people like that out there, like it or not.

    And there are those that would judge the parents for what happened - whether the mother's life was in danger or not.

    I'm pregnant myself at the moment, and I'm not much further on than this woman was. If I had to get a termination for medical reasons, it would be difficult enough to deal with it myself ... let alone having it all over the papers, being aware of acquaintances speculating about whether it might have been me involved, having opinions on whether or not I did the right thing, or what I should have done differently.

    And of course it's completely wrong that people would speculate in such a way - but it's inevitably going to happen.

    I have no problem with them reporting that terminations have taken place under the new legislation. I do, however, think it's really unfortunate that they included so much identifying information about this particular case.


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