first abortion has taken place in Ireland (under new legislation)

bumper234

So the first abortion has taken place in Ireland under the new legislation

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/first-abortion-carried-out-under-new-legislation-1.1502946

The first termination of a pregnancy carried out under the provisions of new abortion legislation has taken place at the National Maternity Hospital on Holles Street, Dublin.
The termination of the twin pregnancy was carried out on a patient who was almost 18 weeks’ pregnant in view of the risk to her life and the unviability of her pregnancy, according to sources at the hospital. Foetal heartbeat were present.

Prepare for the howls of anguish from Youth Defence

Mr. CooL ICE

I hope those right-wing nuts don't find out who she is

sydthebeat

I'm delighted they were able to save that womans life

Sinfonia

That is just a disgraceful headline.

First off, the procedure would have been done without the legislation:

“Even before the passage of the legislation, Holles Street would have carried out terminations in cases like this, where the prognosis for the pregnancy was very poor,” a senior hospital source said last night. “What’s changed is that we can do our work in the best interests of patients without fear of a possible Medical Council case.”

Secondly, there is a semantic difference between the term 'abortion' and the term 'termination of an unviable pregnancy', as used elsewhere in the article.

Attention-grabbing and insensitive. Well done IT.
I hope the parents are ok.

efb

It was done under the new legislation though. It's good to see its now easier save a woman's life

BattleCorp

Sinfonia wrote: »

That is just a disgraceful headline.

First off, the procedure would have been done without the legislation:


Secondly, there is a semantic difference between the term 'abortion' and the term 'termination of an unviable pregnancy', as used elsewhere in the article.

Attention-grabbing and insensitive. Well done IT.
I hope the parents are ok.

As far as I'm aware, it's still illegal to have a termination based on the viability of the foetus.

I thought the legislation meant that a termination could only be carried out if the mother's life was in danger?

Roger_007

bumper234 wrote: »

So the first abortion has taken place in Ireland under the new legislation

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/first-abortion-carried-out-under-new-legislation-1.1502946

The first termination of a pregnancy carried out under the provisions of new abortion legislation has taken place at the National Maternity Hospital on Holles Street, Dublin.
The termination of the twin pregnancy was carried out on a patient who was almost 18 weeks’ pregnant in view of the risk to her life and the unviability of her pregnancy, according to sources at the hospital. Foetal heartbeat were present.

Prepare for the howls of anguish from Youth Defence

I'd say Youth Defence will keep their heads well down on this one. If they raise any objection, they will have to admit that they would prefer to see the woman die.

bumper234

Sinfonia wrote: »

That is just a disgraceful headline.

First off, the procedure would have been done without the legislation:


Secondly, there is a semantic difference between the term 'abortion' and the term 'termination of an unviable pregnancy', as used elsewhere in the article.

Attention-grabbing and insensitive. Well done IT.
I hope the parents are ok.

I agree but it also states

“What’s changed is that we can do our work in the best interests of patients without fear of a possible Medical Council case.”

That's the significant part, Before legislation if they carried out this procedure there was a chance (albeit a small one) that they could be up before the medical council and facing charges.

bumper234

BattleCorp wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, it's still illegal to have a termination based on the viability of the foetus.

I thought the legislation meant that a termination could only be carried out if the mother's life was in danger?

The mothers life was in danger

The case bears a number of similarities to that of Savita Halappanavar, in that the woman’s membranes had ruptured and she was demonstrating signs of sepsis.

Eight Ball

Fantastic news.

Woodbrook80

I think if the pregnancy was left any longer the same thing would have happened as the Galway case last year as sepis was setting in

Kidchameleon

Yay I just received my miniature flag!

JustAThought

Terribly sad news. & heartbreaking for the family.

Can't believe their tragic story is being sloshed around in this jubialint way on AH.

Twins. : (

Caliden

It's good to see that doctors can finally do something without being fearful of being criminally charged.

the_syco

LordChessington wrote: »

I hope those right-wing nuts don't find out who she is

I'd be hoping the media doesn't f**k up in that regard!

Rasheed

JustAThought wrote: »

Terribly sad news. & heartbreaking for the family.

Can't believe their tragic story is being sloshed around in this jubialint way on AH.

Twins. : (

Exactly. God help them going through that and then reading about on the papers. It shouldn't really be 'news'.

Hannibal Smith

I think its terrible this is making headline news. That unfortunate woman and what she's been through and now she's a talking point to be chucked around.

I thought the point of the legislation was to save lives...not to hold it up for all to see and pass judgement on.

I hope she's recovering well.

gobnaitolunacy

Who the hell releases this information from a hospital for public consumption?

Give people some privacy FFS.

Hannibal Smith

Caliden wrote: »

It's good to see that doctors can finally do something without being fearful of being criminally charged.

I think they always could, couldn't they? In a situation where the mother was developing a life threatening illness?

The problem with the halapanavaar case was they didnt know how ill she was or that she was in danger? *can open worms everywhere*

bumper234

JustAThought wrote: »

Terribly sad news. & heartbreaking for the family.

Can't believe their tragic story is being sloshed around in this jubialint way on AH.

Twins. : (

No one is celebrating this woman's loss but i will admit to being happy to see the death grip that the church has had on the country finally loosen. Yes she lost her children but she was saved and as sad as the loss is, saving her life was the right thing to do.

danniemcq

JustAThought wrote: »

Terribly sad news. & heartbreaking for the family.

Can't believe their tragic story is being sloshed around in this jubialint way on AH.

Twins. : (

I think you might be missing the reason why people are happy for this. Its not celebrating the result of the termination but the fact that it was allowed.

Although the operation could have been carried out but previously the hospital could have been liable at the Medical Council level. This could have led to a case much like last year where the mother and the unborn twins would have died.

I think everyone in here knows that this must be a horrible time for the family and those involved.

efb

I think the procedure took place some time ago. No one has been named. Reporting it will give women confidence in the health system that their health is no longer secondary.

Chattastrophe!

Those poor parents, I can't even imagine how horrific that must have been ... and now to have to face reading about it in the papers. Completely wrong.

Good to hear that the procedure would have been carried out anyways in such circumstances in the past.

bumper234

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I think they always could, couldn't they? In a situation where the mother was developing a life threatening illness?

The problem with the halapanavaar case was they didnt know how ill she was or that she was in danger? *can open worms everywhere*

The case bears a number of similarities to that of Savita Halappanavar, in that the woman’s membranes had ruptured and she was demonstrating signs of sepsis.

Now they can take action without the worry

danniemcq

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Who the hell releases this information from a hospital for public consumption?

Give people some privacy FFS.

They didn't release any details that could identify anyone in the article, there was a delay of several weeks between the termination and the release of the story.

I believe this is a fairly important story that the public should know about and they done their best to ensure privacy of those involved.

Chattastrophe!

efb wrote: »

I think the procedure took place some time ago. No one has been named.

Ah yeah, but if you knew of a woman attending Holles St who'd lost twins at 18 weeks within the past couple of months, you'd put two and two together ... there's enough info there for people who know her to identify her.

She may well have just told people she'd had a miscarriage, I can't imagine she'd want everyone to know the exact circumstances of her loss.

They could have just reported that a termination had taken place and the reasons for it, without mentioning the hospital or the fact that it was twins or exactly how far along the mother was.

Condatis

Let us pray for the souls of the unborn children whose lives have ended – and for the mother.

bumper234

Condatis wrote: »

Let us pray for the souls of the unborn children whose lives have ended – and for the mother.

Right after i pray to jeebus for me to win a medal in some sports event

Hannibal Smith

danniemcq wrote: »

They didn't release any details that could identify anyone in the article, there was a delay of several weeks between the termination and the release of the story.

I believe this is a fairly important story that the public should know about and they done their best to ensure privacy of those involved.

Why should the public know about it?

P_1

Tlachtga wrote: »

Ah yeah, but if you knew of a woman attending Holles St who'd lost twins at 18 weeks within the past couple of months, you'd put two and two together ... there's enough info there for people who know her to identify her.

She may well have just told people she'd had a miscarriage, I can't imagine she'd want everyone to know the exact circumstances of her loss.

They could have just reported that a termination had taken place and the reasons for it, without mentioning the hospital or the fact that it was twins or exactly how far along the mother was.

No doubt some busybody somewhere is busily putting 2 and 2 together about the lady involved I'd imagine.

It's good that the hospital staff could work to prevent a potential death of a lady in pregnancy but poor form from the Times in reporting so much identifying detail about the lady in question.

Annasopra

danniemcq wrote: »

They didn't release any details that could identify anyone in the article, there was a delay of several weeks between the termination and the release of the story.

I believe this is a fairly important story that the public should know about and they done their best to ensure privacy of those involved.

The fact that she was pregnant with twins, Naming the hospital and her medical conditions could all be used to identify her.

I agree with Peter Boylan who was on Morning Ireland just now. This is an outrageous breach of patient confidentiality.

Hannibal Smith

mango salsa wrote: »

The fact that she was pregnant with twins, Naming the hospital and her medical conditions could all be used to identify her.

I agree with Peter Boylan who was on Morning Ireland just now. This is an outrageous breach of patient confidentiality.

I missed peter boylan...but I heard morning ireland earlier...they were almost salivating at the thoughts of getting tgis story first.

efb

Tlachtga wrote: »

Ah yeah, but if you knew of a woman attending Holles St who'd lost twins at 18 weeks within the past couple of months, you'd put two and two together ... there's enough info there for people who know her to identify her.

She may well have just told people she'd had a miscarriage, I can't imagine she'd want everyone to know the exact circumstances of her loss.

They could have just reported that a termination had taken place and the reasons for it, without mentioning the hospital or the fact that it was twins or exactly how far along the mother was.

Most people aren't of the valley of twitching curtains any longer. Those that knew about the pregnancy Im sure still feel the same compassion for her as they would have been close to her.

Reporting how far along the mother was and the twins piece I would agree is unnecessary

gobnaitolunacy

danniemcq wrote: »

They didn't release any details that could identify anyone in the article, there was a delay of several weeks between the termination and the release of the story.

I believe this is a fairly important story that the public should know about and they done their best to ensure privacy of those involved.

If it concerned my family or partner, I know I'd be mad as hell.:mad:

Screw the public interest.

Roger_007

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Why should the public know about it?

The public should know that these procedures are, in fact, carried out when necessary. Women have the right to know that, should they encounter the same difficulties, that everything will be done to save their lives. However this should be done by the HSE releasing statistics periodically in a way that does not identify any individual involved.
What is wrong in this case is that the information was made public in such a way that the woman could be identified. That is not right.
If there is any plus in this story, it is that women now can have confidence that Holles St. will be safe for them.

Dick Masterson

This is a rare occasion where Irish people are delighted to hear about a baby being killed.

Mint Sauce

Whilst I am glad our government finally got their act together to allow this to happen, I don't see the need for it to be reported.

Consulants need to be allowed to go out carrying out their duty, and patients need to be able to receive that treatment with respect and dignity. Running a story on it is not dignified.

Chattastrophe!

efb wrote: »

Most people aren't of the valley of twitching curtains any longer. Those that knew about the pregnancy Im sure still feel the same compassion for her as they would have been close to her.

I would imagine that at 18 weeks - and especially with twins - plenty would have known about the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage, not just those close to her. Colleagues, acquaintances etc would all most likely have known at that stage.

And it should have been her prerogative to decide exactly who to tell about the circumstances and when ... whether people would judge or not.

Leftist

the catholics must be spinning in their pews. the holy bread is going to taste very bitter this sunday.

efb

Tlachtga wrote: »

I would imagine that at 18 weeks - and especially with twins - plenty would have known about the pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage, not just those close to her. Colleagues, acquaintances etc would all most likely have known at that stage.

And it should have been her prerogative to decide exactly who to tell about the circumstances and when ... whether people would judge or not.

Are people going to judge her differently if they knew she had a life saving termination? I'd hope not. Those that knew about the pregnancy most likely knew the pregnancy had ended. They whys and wherefores should be irrelevant

efb

Also unless told by her, people cannot be certain that she was the case referred to

bigneacy

Roger_007 wrote: »

I'd say Youth Defence will keep their heads well down on this one. If they raise any objection, they will have to admit that they would prefer to see the woman die.

Are you accusing the Youth Defence of having the power of logic and reasoning?

conorhal

Leftist wrote: »

the catholics must be spinning in their pews. the holy bread is going to taste very bitter this sunday.

It takes a pretty twisted mind for the circumstances that would cause that to give you such cheer.

efb

Tlachtga wrote: »

Ah yeah, but if you knew of a woman attending Holles St who'd lost twins at 18 weeks within the past couple of months, you'd put two and two together ... there's enough info there for people who know her to identify her.

She may well have just told people she'd had a miscarriage, I can't imagine she'd want everyone to know the exact circumstances of her loss.

They could have just reported that a termination had taken place and the reasons for it, without mentioning the hospital or the fact that it was twins or exactly how far along the mother was.

People putting 'two and two together? Do you know many people that would be into such crass speculation?

Condatis

bumper234 wrote: »

Right after i pray to jeebus for me to win a medal in some sports event

That's an odd sense of priorities.

danniemcq

mango salsa wrote: »

The fact that she was pregnant with twins, Naming the hospital and her medical conditions could all be used to identify her.

I agree with Peter Boylan who was on Morning Ireland just now. This is an outrageous breach of patient confidentiality.

My apologies I was judging the Irish Times article only. I was unaware that this story was leaked in such a way. I assumed that it was part of an offical release from the HSC or the hospital.

However I still believe the public should know that this was carried out but not from a leak, i think public knowing that this isn't being carried out for no reason and is for genuine medical conditions is good.

The privacy of those involved should be protected however

SEPT 23 1989

heard this on Newstalk this morning and could not believe how much info was released

Leftist

conorhal wrote: »

It takes a pretty twisted mind for the circumstances that would cause that to give you such cheer.

there's no cheer.

baldbear

Poor lady. And for this to be aired to the public is shocking. RIP

Hannibal Smith

Roger_007 wrote: »

The public should know that these procedures are, in fact, carried out when necessary. Women have the right to know that, should they encounter the same difficulties, that everything will be done to save their lives. However this should be done by the HSE releasing statistics periodically in a way that does not identify any individual involved.
What is wrong in this case is that the information was made public in such a way that the woman could be identified. That is not right.
If there is any plus in this story, it is that women now can have confidence that Holles St. will be safe for them.

I dont see how its important to know about a specific case. The law is there...people know its there...whether its acted upon or not shouldn't be headline news. Its a tragic case where a woman had lost her twins...its not a subject for public discussion. This is not how I thought this law would be dealt with.

LoonyLovegood

While I'm glad this woman could receive treatment, the fact that it has been broadcast to the nation in so much detail is heartbreaking. My heart goes out to her and her family.