Why DO people have such busybody attitudes to sexuality? mod warning opening post

dj jarvis · 21-08-2013 12:54AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

You spend a weekend in Germany and you think you know it all.

I'm not young enough to know everything.

wow - as i thought, nothing to offer

5 years running 3 bars in Germany , half my family live there , i also spend 2 out of twelve months in Finland every year for the last decade

i know very well the prevailing attitudes of the Europeans

and TBH your should be old enough to know better than use a cliche like that !!

you are trying to argue against a globally know fact that main land western Europe has a more liberal attitude to sex and nudity compared to the UK and Ireland - really ??

Femme_Fatale · 21-08-2013 12:55AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

did one of the toilet paper rags not ban page 3 as they felt the Irish customer did not want it , due to " cultural differences "

Think that was just a bullsh1t excuse. Page 3 was overall not an issue here 15-20 years ago, yet all of a sudden it's removed due to cultural differences when things have gotten even more relaxed in that regard since?

pharmaton · 21-08-2013 12:58AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

wow - as i thought, nothing to offer

5 years running 3 bars in Germany , half my family live there , i also spend 2 out of twelve months in Finland every year for the last decade

i know very well the prevailing attitudes of the Europeans

and TBH your should be old enough to know better than use a cliche like that !!

you are trying to argue against a globally know fact that main land western Europe has a more liberal attitude to sex and nudity compared to the UK and Ireland - really ??

Ironical

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6241440/German-men-are-worlds-worst-lovers-with-English-men-in-second-place.html

German men have been voted the world's worst lovers, narrowly beating English men to the unwanted title.

wonder does it have any bearig on the fact that they're so casual about sex?

Jimoslimos · 21-08-2013 01:04AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you are trying to argue against a globally know fact that main land western Europe has a more liberal attitude to sex and nudity compared to the UK and Ireland - really ??

I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as that. For example, people here tend to spend a week or two on the Costa del Sol or the islands surrounded by topless sunbathers and assume all of Spain is equally as liberal with no hang-ups about sex, when actually it is rather conservative and Catholic.

Femme_Fatale · 21-08-2013 01:10AM

pharmaton wrote: »

Ironical

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6241440/German-men-are-worlds-worst-lovers-with-English-men-in-second-place.html

wonder does it have any bearig on the fact that they're so casual about sex?

Yeh I think it's more exciting when there's something slightly illicit about it. Being mundane as a cup of tea would just make it boring.

Czarcasm · 21-08-2013 01:13AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

wow - as i thought, nothing to offer

5 years running 3 bars in Germany , half my family live there , i also spend 2 out of twelve months in Finland every year for the last decade

i know very well the prevailing attitudes of the Europeans

and TBH your should be old enough to know better than use a cliche like that !!

you are trying to argue against a globally know fact that main land western Europe has a more liberal attitude to sex and nudity compared to the UK and Ireland - really ??

Should I base my assumptions on what I see in nightclubs and bars in Ireland and the UK too?

No, because trying to pass those assumptions off as "global fact" (Is there even such a thing as a "global fact", some people are still convinced the world is flat!) would be a hilarious display of ignorance.

dj jarvis · 21-08-2013 08:40AM

pharmaton wrote: »

Ironical

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6241440/German-men-are-worlds-worst-lovers-with-English-men-in-second-place.html

wonder does it have any bearig on the fact that they're so casual about sex?

it might have - does not change the fact they have a very open attitude to sexuality -sex and nudity regardless of their ability to actually do it

dj jarvis · 21-08-2013 08:56AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Should I base my assumptions on what I see in nightclubs and bars in Ireland and the UK too?

No, because trying to pass those assumptions off as "global fact" (Is there even such a thing as a "global fact", some people are still convinced the world is flat!) would be a hilarious display of ignorance.

jesus Czarcasam even for you that is just ill informed and lazy,

what ever - argue just for the sake of it as usual - you trying to deny that the nations i mentioned are FAR more sexually liberated than the others i mentioned , as the not just global fact , its common knowledge , and my time spent in these country's shows.

you can base what you want about night clubs - i was told that was different by another poster becasue festivals and music events don't count , so what one is it ?

you can widely see what i talk about on the tv , with nudity widely show , brothels and sex shops out in the open , red light districts all over Europe

funny but you dont see that in Ireland and the UK ,i wonder why :rolleyes:
Nothing to do with attitudes?? pppfffftt

remember stringfellows opening in Dublin , do you remember the demonstrations ? it closed 2 months after,
strip clubs ALL over Europe - because of differing attitudes

no assumptions - just plain facts

dj jarvis · 21-08-2013 09:02AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as that. For example, people here tend to spend a week or two on the Costa del Sol or the islands surrounded by topless sunbathers and assume all of Spain is equally as liberal with no hang-ups about sex, when actually it is rather conservative and Catholic.

no they dont , you might , becasue i understand the majority of topless people would not be Spanish for starters ,
and going topless is no way connected to sexually or sex , it sun bathing.

you just have proved my point - you are from Ireland , see tits and start to think sexually , where the mainlands would not as they have it around them a LOT more - on tv ads and the like

as for the catholic thing in Spain - i am not so sure , have you ever traveled to Italy ? they have " family" game shows that have topless models leaping around, and they dont seem to have a problem with nudity , last time i check they were a very catholic country

dj jarvis · 21-08-2013 09:19AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Think that was just a bullsh1t excuse. Page 3 was overall not an issue here 15-20 years ago, yet all of a sudden it's removed due to cultural differences when things have gotten even more relaxed in that regard since?

well i didn't think the reason they gave was the true reason , im repeating the reason they gave - im sure its to further woman's equality , or some bumpkin like that

so would you like to hazard a guess why they pulled page 3? , mine would be female readership , sales dropping to the floor so they get rid of page 3 for some free airtime , and poss attract more women readers

but they did go on national media claiming it was down to cultural difference between here and the UK

geeky · 21-08-2013 09:40AM

I think the prudishness comes from an innate desire to judge and feel superior to other people.

It's a toxic combination with massive peer pressure to engage in sexualised behaviour early, and a culture that encourages young women to think of themselves as purely sex objects. Then, whenever they cross an imaginary line, the medieval-style judgement begins. I really fear for any girls I might have.

Czarcasm · 21-08-2013 09:43AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

jesus Czarcasam even for you that is just ill informed and lazy,

what ever - argue just for the sake of it as usual - you trying to deny that the nations i mentioned are FAR more sexually liberated than the others i mentioned , as the not just global fact , its common knowledge , and my time spent in these country's shows.

you can base what you want about night clubs - i was told that was different by another poster becasue festivals and music events don't count , so what one is it ?

you can widely see what i talk about on the tv , with nudity widely show , brothels and sex shops out in the open , red light districts all over Europe

funny but you dont see that in Ireland and the UK ,i wonder why :rolleyes:
Nothing to do with attitudes?? pppfffftt

remember stringfellows opening in Dublin , do you remember the demonstrations ? it closed 2 months after,
strip clubs ALL over Europe - because of differing attitudes

no assumptions - just plain facts

Your time as a tourist in these countries does indeed show that just because you believe something, everybody else must believe it too. You have a handful of friends and relatives in a foreign country, nothing more. Germany has a population of 80 MILLION people. You could live there all your life and still only meet a million of them if you met someone new every day.

The reason you don't see that kind of manufactured sexuality on display in Ireland and the UK is because-

a) the market isn't big enough to make any serious money from it, and
b) the economies of Ireland and the UK are in the shítter, Germany and France, not so much, plenty of money to go around yet.

I remember Stringfellows opened in Dublin, it was great publicity, wasn't it, that you still remember it seven years later. How much do you think Peter Stringfellow spends on marketing? Here's a clue - It's a lot more annually than it costs to "open" a new club! You can't buy that kind of advertising, and he didn't have to pay the media or the people protesting outside a cent.

Opening a club - you'd do it with petty cash. Advertising a club - Nice wedge of a company's budget.

dj jarvis wrote: »

no they dont , you might , becasue i understand the majority of topless people would not be Spanish for starters ,
and going topless is no way connected to sexually or sex , it sun bathing.

you just have proved my point - you are from Ireland , see tits and start to think sexually , where the mainlands would not as they have it around them a LOT more - on tv ads and the like

Ehh, the majority of topless people in Spain ARE Spanish, it's a hot damn country where the rain falls mainly on the plain. The rest of it is a mediterranean climate. Going topless is related to nudity, stands to attention reason surely?

I don't think seeing tits and thinking sexually is a uniquely Irish thing either, otherwise continental Europe would be a barren place. No desire for sexuality -> no sex -> No next generation of titty and beer belly lovers.

as for the catholic thing in Spain - i am not so sure , have you ever traveled to Italy ? they have " family" game shows that have topless models leaping around, and they dont seem to have a problem with nudity , last time i check they were a very catholic country

Ease up there jarvis, the main thrust of your argument was to blame catholicism for what you saw as prudish Irish attitudes to sexuality. Now you're saying that Catholicism makes no difference to attitudes towards sexuality in a predominantly Catholic country? I can see giant pinholes in your argument. You may want to take your hand down from your eyes and rest them squarely on your thighs. Stop rubbing.

Now have a look at Poland, even more predominantly Catholic than Ireland. Yet for some Irish people they think Polish women only come in a size eight, aged 18-25, raring for sex with randy oppressed Irish men. I suppose that's a common knowledge global fact too, is it?

Most people know it isn't.

floggg · 21-08-2013 11:25AM

efb wrote: »

Catholic Guilt. And Nosiness

I don't think Catholic Guilt is really the right term.

Irish Catholic Guilt maybe but in other catholic countries, such as Latin America, they don't have anything like the shame and hang ups we do.

I tried explaining the catholic guilt concept to my Mexican boyfriend but he was completely bemused by the fact that we aren't all that catholic any more and that Mexican Catholics have no such guilt.

I think Ireland is a bit unique in that we had a large catholic majority but the Catholic Church was never in a position or control or authority until relatively recently - and they lost it relatively quickly too.

So we never had the distrust of the clergy that other countries were the CC was part of the establishment might have.

I'm reading a book about the history of Latin America and you see how much the CC was part of the colonial system and controlled land and wealth.

So there was likely to always be a degree of resentment against them that never really existed in the same way here.

cloudatlas · 21-08-2013 11:36AM

I think it is shame. 'Others judge me or I feel they judge me so I pass it on'. Or 'I wish I wasn't so repressed so I'll judge others who throw my problem into the light'. I've found that people who judge normally have a strange relationship to sex. Either they've felt duty bound to have as much of it as possible to 'prove' themselves, i.e. drunken one night stands or they are staunchly prudish and can't stand to consider others getting up to sexual high jinks.

dj jarvis · 21-08-2013 11:50AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Your time as a tourist in these countries does indeed show that just because you believe something, everybody else must believe it too. You have a handful of friends and relatives in a foreign country, nothing more. Germany has a population of 80 MILLION people. You could live there all your life and still only meet a million of them if you met someone new every day.

The reason you don't see that kind of manufactured sexuality on display in Ireland and the UK is because-

a) the market isn't big enough to make any serious money from it, and
b) the economies of Ireland and the UK are in the shítter, Germany and France, not so much, plenty of money to go around yet.

I remember Stringfellows opened in Dublin, it was great publicity, wasn't it, that you still remember it seven years later. How much do you think Peter Stringfellow spends on marketing? Here's a clue - It's a lot more annually than it costs to "open" a new club! You can't buy that kind of advertising, and he didn't have to pay the media or the people protesting outside a cent.

Opening a club - you'd do it with petty cash. Advertising a club - Nice wedge of a company's budget.

Ehh, the majority of topless people in Spain ARE Spanish, it's a hot damn country where the rain falls mainly on the plain. The rest of it is a mediterranean climate. Going topless is related to nudity, stands to attention reason surely?

I don't think seeing tits and thinking sexually is a uniquely Irish thing either, otherwise continental Europe would be a barren place. No desire for sexuality -> no sex -> No next generation of titty and beer belly lovers.

Ease up there jarvis, the main thrust of your argument was to blame catholicism for what you saw as prudish Irish attitudes to sexuality. Now you're saying that Catholicism makes no difference to attitudes towards sexuality in a predominantly Catholic country? I can see giant pinholes in your argument. You may want to take your hand down from your eyes and rest them squarely on your thighs. Stop rubbing.

Now have a look at Poland, even more predominantly Catholic than Ireland. Yet for some Irish people they think Polish women only come in a size eight, aged 18-25, raring for sex with randy oppressed Irish men. I suppose that's a common knowledge global fact too, is it?

Most people know it isn't.

i was not a tourist , i live there for 5 years , how is that tourism , do you think i did not get a good feeling of the place after 5 years ??
and your assertion that they have a different attitude to sex becasue they have a larger population ? clutching at straws a lot

as for string fellows - you honestly think a failing club is good advertising ?
and even if he did "manufacture" it , how did he get people to protest ? did he pay them ? no , they done it becasue the attitude of some in this country was against it , if it was the other way around it would still be open , ya know , the point of the thread , it would not have happen in Europe - full stop.

and you say my main thrust was the catholic church - sorry but who's post were you reading ? i said the teachings of the church , and if you try compare the Irish church 30 years ago to other country's you are deluding yourself,
the Irish church was on the the most repressive in Europe , FFS the Irish church had a hand in book and film censorship here for DECADES
and you are trying to say this had no residual affect on how the Irish view sex and nudity ??? seriously ??

finally , your Poland nonsense - what is that clap trap , its unreadable , generalizing and pointless -

you keep your notions - but you are 100% off the mark on this one,

laughable that you even TRY to make the point the their is no cultural differences sexually between Ireland and the UK , compared to the rest of mainland Europe and the Nordic nations - LAUGHABLE

floggg · 21-08-2013 11:59AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

but its not seen as taboo in all cultures , and plenty in Europe have no issue with public sex or nudity

2 examples come to mind , I was at the love parade in 97 , and on the tiergarten in Berlin , ( think Phoenix park , but central Berlin ) , surrounded by 1.4 million others , a full blown ( pun not intended....... much ) porno movie was being shot in the crowd , not hand held cam ****e , proper crew set up , your grannys jaw would have fallen off at the sight of it , but nobody was fazed by this , all stood around for a few minutes and then left , as did i , stayed about 5 minutes and they wandered off , seen enough and was not shocked one bit , neither was the crowed as far as i could see.

second is this guy that used to wander around Frankfurt bollic naked 24/7
he would go to Sachsenhaushen ( temple bar ) with nothing on , except his yellow sports walk man , he would go into different bars and clubs , some had no issue with him , some did , i have seen him many times sitting at out side tables eating , with family's sitting next to him with no issues at all - in fact many would talk to him , he won the right in a German court to do this.

so i think the question why do people have an issue with public sex and nudity is wrong , it should be , why do some people have an issue , and why do most of them come from certain country's and not others
the muslin world would be a prime example , but so would Ireland , England and the US and Canada , but less so Germany , the Netherlands and Denmark
and the Nordic countrys have no issues at all with getting naked in public

my money is on the church and it teachings

Actually when I was in Berlin last spring we went into one bar and bumped into a bunch of English girls picking their jaws off the floor after seeing two guys ****ing in the middle of the bar.

We missed all the fun

Though we were offered a threesome in the nightclub next door.

We weren't paying the cover charge though.

I think that sort of thing is common in certain clubs in Berlin.

Czarcasm · 21-08-2013 04:26PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i was not a tourist , i live there for 5 years , how is that tourism , do you think i did not get a good feeling of the place after 5 years ??
and your assertion that they have a different attitude to sex becasue they have a larger population ? clutching at straws a lot

The only person clutching at straws jarvis is you when you come out with nonsense like "the Irish Church" as if it's some distinct entity from the predominantly Catholic Church in Ireland.

as for string fellows - you honestly think a failing club is good advertising ?
and even if he did "manufacture" it , how did he get people to protest ? did he pay them ? no , they done it becasue the attitude of some in this country was against it , if it was the other way around it would still be open , ya know , the point of the thread , it would not have happen in Europe - full stop.

Peter Stringfellow would've gone out of business long ago if he didn't know how to do a feasibility study. You think he didn't know well that there'd be opposition from local residents to a lapdancing club in their area but that it'd catch the national media's attention? How many Irish people travel to London, Liverpool and Manchester each year and a trip to Stringfellows or Spearmint Rhino isn't par for the course while they're over there? Plenty of people do. How many people would bother visiting one in ireland? Not too many, because they wouldn't be bothered. The numbers just wouldn't stack up for a business. That's why the Ann Summers franchise is dying on it's arse here- apart from the fact their products are overpriced shìte, there just aren't enough people interested to make it a viable business.

and you say my main thrust was the catholic church - sorry but who's post were you reading ? i said the teachings of the church , and if you try compare the Irish church 30 years ago to other country's you are deluding yourself,
the Irish church was on the the most repressive in Europe, FFS the Irish church had a hand in book and film censorship here for DECADES
and you are trying to say this had no residual affect on how the Irish view sex and nudity ??? seriously ??

Desperate. That's what that is now. You can't just say you mean the Catholic Church because it would split your argument wide open.

What "residual effect" does the "Irish Church" have on Irish society when 30 years on most people who are 30 now never cared what the "Irish Church" had to say in the first place?

Ahh I'll just say "You're right jarvis, how could I not see it all along!", that'll keep you happy and you won't think I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing then. Other than that, I'm done here with your "Irish Church".

laoch na mona · 21-08-2013 05:06PM

because tis shameful carry on what those youths get up to no on had sex in my day

todders · 21-08-2013 05:22PM

LOSTfan57 wrote: »

You and me baby aint nothing but mammals so lets do it like they do on the discovery channel

You had to, didn't you?

ScumLord · 21-08-2013 05:27PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Is there anything AH won't blame the Catholic Church for?

I don't represent AH, that's my opinion. The Catholic church literally demonised women, even though they were instrumental in setting up the church initially (if it wasn't for a business woman Paul probably wouldn't have been as successful spreading his gospel around Europe), sure most religions have done this throughout history but the Catholic church was the religion that influenced Europe and by extension the Americas.

When Christianity started first even under Jesus it was much friendlier and inclusive of women, then the Church took it upon itself to reinforce male domination.

Human sexuality, is for the most part derived from evolutionary responses.

I don't think it's been that way for a long time, human society has seen to it that the community as a whole has controlled who gets to breed. If it was still in nature's hands it would be the strongest most powerful males that breed with whomever they pleased. People have been forced into couplings that they naturally don't want to be in for a long time now.

Femme_Fatale · 22-08-2013 01:01AM

Who are these sexually repressed prudes who should know better, whom some of you guys seem to encounter all the time? I'm not sharing your experiences apart from old people, whom I don't deal with that much.

shopaholic01 · 22-08-2013 01:21AM

Gbear wrote: »

Those principles were relevant once upon a time. Now that women are people too and can control their own sexuality

What were we before?

Gbear · 22-08-2013 11:05AM

shopaholic01 wrote: »

What were we before?

Considered less than men.

NoCrackHaving · 22-08-2013 12:51PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as that. For example, people here tend to spend a week or two on the Costa del Sol or the islands surrounded by topless sunbathers and assume all of Spain is equally as liberal with no hang-ups about sex, when actually it is rather conservative and Catholic.

Spain and conservatism and Catholicism is a very mixed bag and to claim it's rather conservative and/or Catholic is just incorrect. Church attendance rates in Spain are very low (5% in some parts of rural Andulucia and Extremadura) while Spanish views on sex, even amongst social conservatives are very liberal. It's very confusing and has all the baggage of the Spanish Civil War/Franco/Pact of forgetting thrown in.

dj jarvis wrote: »

as for the catholic thing in Spain - i am not so sure , have you ever traveled to Italy ? they have " family" game shows that have topless models leaping around, and they dont seem to have a problem with nudity , last time i check they were a very catholic country

While many Italians identify as 'Catholic', the power of the Catholic church in Italy has never been anywhere near as powerful as in Ireland since the re-unification of the country with anti-clericalism being a very strong force. In fact until the Lantern Treaty was signed between the Pope and Mussolini the Italian state was very anti-clerical and this continues to the present day.

floggg wrote: »

Actually when I was in Berlin last spring we went into one bar and bumped into a bunch of English girls picking their jaws off the floor after seeing two guys ****ing in the middle of the bar.

We missed all the fun

Though we were offered a threesome in the nightclub next door.

We weren't paying the cover charge though.

I think that sort of thing is common in certain clubs in Berlin.

It's interesting how 'libertine' Berlin has become since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the re-unification of Germany. The parallels between contemporary Berlin and Berlin of the 1920's and early 1930's are too striking to ignore. I suspect some form of social conservative could well be on horizon. In a lot of historical periods, social liberalism (drugs/sex etc.)and runaway capitalism and/or social democracy is often followed by a right wing backlash, something western Europe thankfully hasn't experienced since the 1930's. However the experiences of Russia post communism and the rapid rise of the far right in that country and in places like Greece could be a sign of what places that pride themselves on tolerance (aka modern Germany) could be in for if we're not careful.

Fighting Irish · 22-08-2013 01:14PM

It's the people who can't get sex complaining about the other people having sex, joe duffy types more than likely

I can't wait for the current older generation to die off, no offense intended

laoch na mona · 22-08-2013 01:22PM

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's the people who can't get sex complaining about the other people having sex, joe duffy types more than likely

I can't wait for the current older generation to die off, no offense intended

But recent events suggest that some of the younger generation are just as judgmental even though they are not ashamed of sex, they are still willing to shame others

almighty1 · 22-08-2013 02:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

....I've never seen other dogs look away in disgust or ostracise the mating pair for being "filthy", "having no morals", etc. .....

Really, you are putting this into your argument? One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever had the misfortune of reading. :eek:

hatrickpatrick · 22-08-2013 02:07PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Who are these sexually repressed prudes who should know better, whom some of you guys seem to encounter all the time? I'm not sharing your experiences apart from old people, whom I don't deal with that much.

I take it you haven't been on Twitter over the last couple of days?

hatrickpatrick · 22-08-2013 02:08PM

almighty1 wrote: »

Really, you are putting this into your argument? One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever had the misfortune of reading. :eek:

Why is it ridiculous? I'm pointing out that among mammals, humans seem to be unique in having a taboo about sex.

almighty1 · 22-08-2013 02:11PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous? I'm pointing out that among mammals, humans seem to be unique in having a taboo about sex.

The inability for animals to display disgust might be a starter.

Why DO people have such busybody attitudes to sexuality? *mod warning opening post*

Comments

Why DO people have such busybody attitudes to sexuality? mod warning opening post