"Should we care if Google reads our emails?"

Dostoevsky · 18-08-2013 11:34AM #1

Surprisingly I can't see this on Boards.ie yet.

In yesterday's Irish Times Karlin Lillington highlighted the radical breaches of our privacy which Google is engaged in at the moment. Even if you have ADHD, her article should be required reading for anybody who's concerned with privacy and security online.

"Should we care if Google reads our emails?"

Opinion: Google automatically parses your private emails to better target you with ads. This act is the subject of a US class action...

"According to a recent American court filing by Google lawyers, disclosed by consumer advocacy group Consumer Watchdog, Google says those who send email to users of web email services such as Gmail have no right to expect that email content will not be examined by a third – in this case, automated – party."

Google's response:

In its filing in response to a consumer class-action lawsuit that states Google routinely violates user privacy, the company argues, “Just as a sender of a letter to a business colleague cannot be surprised that the recipient’s assistant opens the letter, people who use web-based email today cannot be surprised if their communications are processed by the recipient’s [email] provider in the course of delivery.[/email]”

Wtf. Wtf. Wtf.

Lillington then goes on to ask would we accept if An Post has a right to open our post in order to send us advertisements? No, we wouldn't. Is the "free" service of gmail worth this breach of your privacy? What email service are people using to protect their data and details of business deals? I hope the IDA and others aren't using anything connected with gmail.

I'm getting tired of Google trying to link my gmail account to my entire online presence. If you don't link, they repeatedly come up with a notice on my android phone, iPad and laptop. I want to keep everything separate and not have a trail that makes me a target for ridiculous ads and much else (at best, the ads seem to be a couple of months after my Google search). What email account would allow me to avoid all this Google spam that gmail brings on me? Is there any alternative search engine to Google which avoids such linkages?

srsly78 · 18-08-2013 11:37AM

Just make a dummy gmail account for android, then install adblock. We only put up with Google because their products are much better than the competitors (and given away for "free").

RachaelVO · 18-08-2013 11:40AM

Don't suppose anyone is entirely surprised... everything most people do is there for all to see, so why should we be surprised that google parse our email? It's a free service so they make money with ads.

Given what we've seen coming out of the states in the last year, Mr Orwell wasn't too far removed with 1984.

tigger123 · 18-08-2013 11:42AM

Ads by Google aren't exactly intrusive. The worst thing that could happen is that someone tries to sell me something I might actually want. Not really bothered with them scanning my emails.

Dostoevsky · 18-08-2013 11:47AM

tigger123 wrote: »

Not really bothered with them scanning my emails.

Do you mind me asking, why does this not bother you? I've a "joke" hotmail account from about 1997 which I give when I'm filling in forms etc. There's nothing personal there. My gmail is/has been my main account, however, so I'm much more concerned and now looking for an alternative.

tigger123 · 18-08-2013 11:54AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Do you mind me asking, why does this not bother you? I've a "joke" hotmail account from about 1997 which I give when I'm filling in forms etc. There's nothing personal there. My gmail is/has been my main account, however, so I'm much more concerned and now looking for an alternative.

Because rightly or wrongly I trust Google, and their ethos. I don't expect them to do anything malicious with the information, so if they want to scan my mails to better target ads I've no issue with it.

hansfrei · 18-08-2013 11:59AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUdG25p4rZY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Local people from California formed an action group against this kind of spying. The million square foot NSA surveillance centre, its origins and laws are discussed in that video.

Amirani · 18-08-2013 12:00PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Do you mind me asking, why does this not bother you? I've a "joke" hotmail account from about 1997 which I give when I'm filling in forms etc. There's nothing personal there. My gmail is/has been my main account, however, so I'm much more concerned and now looking for an alternative.

Outlook doesn't scan emails for ads. There is still privacy concerns though obviously.

Dostoevsky · 18-08-2013 12:01PM

tigger123 wrote: »

Because rightly or wrongly I trust Google, and their ethos. I don't expect them to do anything malicious with the information, so if they want to scan my mails to better target ads I've no issue with it.

Fair enough. Can you see this precedent of allowing a private commercially-motivated company to access your private email leading to much more significant privacy problems for society down the road?

Cookie_Monster · 18-08-2013 12:02PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Fair enough. Can you see this precedent of allowing a private commercially-motivated company to access your private email leading to much more significant privacy problems for society down the road?

As opposed to the UK or US governments?

The Backwards Man · 18-08-2013 12:03PM

Doesn't bother me. If you don't like it don't use it.

Dostoevsky · 18-08-2013 12:04PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

As opposed to the UK or US governments?

For the purposes of this thread, yes.

ted1 · 18-08-2013 12:04PM

If your not paying for the product you are the priduct

Cienciano · 18-08-2013 12:12PM

Couldnt give a rats ass tbh. I never intentionally clicked on an internet ad in my life and I doubt I ever will

tigger123 · 18-08-2013 12:22PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Fair enough. Can you see this precedent of allowing a private commercially-motivated company to access your private email leading to much more significant privacy problems for society down the road?

But its not my email, its their service, and I'm electing to use it. If its part of their terms and conditions and I disagree with it (which I don't) then I don't have to use their service. Anyway, there's nothing in my emails which I have an issue with them scanning. And its anonymous.

ScumLord · 18-08-2013 12:40PM

If Google are nice enough to go through my emails for spam and viruses for free then they can throw in the odd ad too.

hatrickpatrick · 18-08-2013 01:02PM

If it's automated I don't particularly care, no human is reading them and I've consented to them being stored on Google's servers.
Comparisons to the NSA or GCHQ are moronic. I have not consented to them having my data and I don't care if they'll never read it, I'm not ok with them having access to it in the first place, or any government for that matter. Commercial espionage and political espionage are two different things - for an example closer to home, Google using Mick Wallace's driving offenses to target him with anti speed camera gadget ads and a minister using it to embarrass him in parliament are completely different situations, and anyone with a brain stem should be able to see why commercial spying using automated systems is far less of a big deal than political / governmental agencies having access to private information.

CrazyRabbit · 18-08-2013 01:23PM

Almost all providers scan emails to auto-filter out spam. They've been doing that for a very long time. I don't see how this is different.

I would however hope that only the 'system' can read the mails and not individual people in the company.

BeerWolf · 19-08-2013 10:36AM

I got nothing to hide, so meh.

LeinsterDub · 19-08-2013 10:46AM

This has been in Gmail since practically day one . Why the sudden shock?

Tiddlypeeps · 19-08-2013 10:57AM

Nobody is forcing you to use Gmail. There are other providers you can go with if you disagree with being target for advertising in that way. If you don't want anybody scanning your emails at all then you can set up your own email, it's really not that difficult anyone can do it. So it's not like you don't have a choice.

Google have always been open about this too, it's not like it's been a well kept secret for decades. They have done this from day one.

I don't mind it at all. I've had useful ads served at me because of this practice. I trust them not to abuse this system so I will continue to use Gmail and Google products until they give me reason to revoke that trust.

NiallSparky wrote: »

Outlook doesn't scan emails for ads. There is still privacy concerns though obviously.

Isn't outlook just a client?

BeerWolf · 19-08-2013 10:59AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Isn't outlook just a client?

Get with the times;

Outlook‎ has replaced Hotmail.

Dravokivich · 19-08-2013 11:32AM

I don't get why it's such a shock now. It was even seen as a bonus when GMAIL started up that the majority of advertisements would be targeted by keywords in your e-mails. This is a lot better for Google and the user, as it means the ads displayed to them, are going to have a higher hit rate, as it's more likely to be an item of interest.

It's much better than the likes of facebook. Where their advertisements links the Advertiser directly with your account details any time you like a page or use a game through it.

Tiddlypeeps · 19-08-2013 11:35AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's much better than the likes of facebook. Where their advertisements links the Advertiser directly with your account details any time you like a page or use a game through it.

I did some Facebook dev stuff recently and it's shocking the amount of personal info you can get from a person just from having them open your app or like your page.

languagenerd · 19-08-2013 12:03PM

I'm not too bothered about an automated program scanning my mail for keywords, esp if there are no Google employees reading it. I never click Internet ads anyway, so it's not like they're getting much from me (other than brand awareness I guess). That said, I wouldn't like the idea of An Post opening my letters to put them through a scanner and include relevant ads in the envelope! Not sure what the difference is really. Maybe I'm just a hypocrite :P

What does bother me, though, is the precedent it sets. We're already sharing far more about ourselves online than ever before and I think programs like this will get far more advanced in the future. Without wanting to sound like a conspiracy nut, I think that there'll be no such thing as privacy in the future (well, in the context of communications - I don't mean cameras in bathrooms :pac:) and I hate the idea of these programs/websites falling into the wrong hands. If Facebook or Google was ever hacked, those hackers would have so much information about us and our communications and who knows what they could do with it.

GorillaRising · 19-08-2013 12:16PM

I know people say 'sure what harm' etc, but it's the ethics of what Google are doing.

I understand why they do it, but should they?

There's going to be ads on the maps app now too.

I just find them annoying myself.

Having said that, I do use Gmail because it's not something I feel strongly about, but I get why people might be concerned.

You can always use Google services without gmail though - set up a new outlook account for example, create an alias and use that as your Google account! Sorted.

DubVelo · 20-08-2013 07:23PM

tigger123 wrote: »

Because rightly or wrongly I trust Google, and their ethos. I don't expect them to do anything malicious with the information, so if they want to scan my mails to better target ads I've no issue with it.

Eh... You haven't read the papers this year have you?

Freddy Smelly · 21-08-2013 08:13AM

add this line into your gmail signature to say "i like atari jaguars"

see if you get targeted by atari ads

Sh1tbag OToole · 21-08-2013 08:48AM

Stopped using gmail years ago and run my own email server. No email will be secure though even PGP can be cracked by the NSA without much trouble I reckon.

Googles biggest privacy invasion isnt scanning emails but their tie-ins with governments to hand over information on suspected law breakers. They are trying to make everyone much more dependent on their other services as well so they will have more different types of data to mine. Like my phone would much rather do everything via google, first few days I had it I saw nothing but nag screens for google account.

Google CEO Eric Schmidt has been known not to regard privacy very highly either..

Wibbs · 21-08-2013 08:58AM

Don't use gmail, never will. I quite simply don't trust the company.

RoyalMarine · 21-08-2013 09:26AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't use gmail, never will. I quite simply don't trust the company.

Is there anything in particular you don't trust about Google?

I'm just curious.

"Should we care if Google reads our emails?"

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