Man documents his life/death before suicide

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

He sounds like an insufferable narcissist.

A narcissist Cathal wouldn't have cared about the possible consequences of their actions, nor the effect their actions would have on other people. If you read the letter/website/articles, his logic of course may seem a tad unusual, but there are people that will understand his motivation.

The hoax isn't as off the wall as it seems either. I can remember reading a story as a child (I can't remember was it one of Aesop's classics or where I read it, can't even remember enough to dig up a link ), but the basic premise of it was a father that owned an orchard, but had three lazy sons, and when his will was read out after he died, he made mention of the fact that he had hidden buried treasure in the orchard.

The three sons they sweated hard and dug every inch of that orchard looking for the treasure. There was none to be found. They cursed their father out of it.

A few months later come harvest time, the sons noticed that the tree branches were touching the ground such was the burden of fruit on them. The sons suddenly copped what the father meant, picked the fruit, and sold it down the market making themselves a tidy sum.


Manley "buried his fortune" in an Arboretum

The man was deteriorating, he didnt want to be a burden on family members when he got to the final stages of dementia, he wanted to preserve his dignity and save his family what he thought would be troublesome experience for them, the poor guy, you cant help but feel for him

I ****ing despise how people calling those who commit suicide selfish and cowardly. It only goes to show up their ignorance about the issue and the causes/reasoning behind it.

If he was beginning to enter dementia I understand his reasoning completely and I would do the same. I don't see the appeal of getting old myself, I would always rather go out on a high than descend into an illness or just become crippled and more dependant the older I got.
That's not being mentally ill, that's justifying my reasons, and it is justified and rational to me and how I'd want to escape all that before it happened. To me, growing old just isn't worth it.

I like my quality of life, I don't want old age to rob that off me, so if I was told I'd live to 90 in poor health, I'd rather not do it to be perfectly honest.

His website only went live the day he died am I right?

Okay I wasn't going to click on his website but I think I had to try to justify what I said. I had a look at his website and frankly I couldn't be arsed going through the whole thing as I don't actually care what he has to say about reams of random **** - except for the suicide bit.

So, if you want to understand everything I have to say about my death - simply read the first 12 categories on the list to the left - especially Suicide Preface. If you want to know what I have to say about my life,

So I had a look at the Suicide Preface and this is what I took from it:

Let me ask you a question. After you die, you can be remembered by a few-line obituary for one day in a newspaper when you're too old to matter to anyone anyway... OR you can be remembered for years by a site such as this. That was my choice and I chose the obvious.

Em.. not all of us want to be famous in death. Most people slip away without a fuss even when they do take their own lives. I'm reminded of the quote attributed to a suffering explorer who 'expedites' his death in Antarctica:

"I am just going outside and may be some time."

No fuss, no bull****. Out the gap.

You will rarely get any details for why a person committed suicide, but that won't be the case with me! In fact, this may be the most detailed example of a suicide letter in history - something to be entered into the Guinness Book of Records! My hope is that it is.

Yay! I mean, okay... that's pretty bizarre and seems like little more than serious attention seeking.

I’ve planned to end my own life for as long as I remember ... I had no health issues.

Why are people talking about dementia when he's admitted this?

I decided I didn't have the luxury of caring what anyone else thought – which is more or less my recipe in life anyway.

Nice.

Now I regret clicking on the site and actually giving it oxygen.

I said 'he sounds like an insufferable narcissist' in my first post. 'Narcissist' may technically be the wrong word but I don't think I was too far off the mark with my sentiment.

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Okay I wasn't going to click on his website but I think I had to try to justify what I said. I had a look at his website and frankly I couldn't be arsed going through the whole thing as I don't actually care what he has to say about reams of random **** - except for the suicide bit.

Cathal I'd like to address some of your points if I may (I'm not going to get too heavily invested in this thread either tbh as I have no interest in "winning an argument on the internet" so to speak).

So I had a look at the Suicide Preface and this is what I took from it:


Em.. not all of us want to be famous in death. Most people slip away without a fuss even when they do take their own lives. I'm reminded of the quote attributed to a suffering explorer who 'expedites' his death in Antarctica:

"I am just going outside and may be some time."

No fuss, no bull****. Out the gap.

Your idea is the way I shall be going myself when I decide I want to leave. I don't feel I owe humanity any explanation for my actions. Only those who need to know will know. We'll obviously read the same thing differently, but Manley wanted to drive discussion around the issue of voluntary suicide (key word there is voluntary, as opposed to involuntary when suffering from a compromised mental state caused by mental illness). His philosophy is ego-centric rather than narcissistic. A narcissist would only care about the consequences of their actions for themselves. They wouldn't even ask you a question.

Yay! I mean, okay... that's pretty bizarre and seems like little more than serious attention seeking.

His hope being that voluntary suicide would eventually become normal in society, of course it's a bizarre ideology, and again it's ego-centric, but like Oates, Manley too over-estimates people's ability to give a shìt. Five minutes from now people won't give a shìt, but at least unlike Oates, Manley hasn't been a burden to anyone for the last six months. It's also worth noting however that without Scott's recording of Oates' courage in his diaries, the world would never have known of Captain Lawrence Oates.

The closest to Scott's logs we have nowadays in a five minute attention span society, is the Internet and the Guinness Book of Records. That says more about society than it does about Manley tbh.

Why are people talking about dementia when he's admitted this?

Without wanting this thread to descend into the macabre, I often give consideration to how I will go when I decide to die. Depending on the circumstances, Plan A and backup Plan B just aren't going to cut it. You need a plan C, D, E, etc, because if you let nature take it's course, nature has a woeful habit of taking it's own sweet ass time about these things, and doesn't particularly care that every subsequent day either your brain is rotting, or your body is rotting. They're already decaying once you reach adulthood, but nature doesn't suffer humanity's qualms about cruelty.

Nice.

He barely had control over his own thought processes once dementia was setting in, he recognised this, so of course he would consider it a luxury to have been able to consider the thoughts of others. Thinking of other people besides ourselves, contrary to popular opinion, isn't actually something that comes naturally. There's nothing wrong with being selfish either. It's just the degree to which you are selfish that matters.

Now I regret clicking on the site and actually giving it oxygen.

Cathal you had an expectation of the site's contents. Nobody forced you to look at it, you had control over that that choice, unlike a person suffering from dementia whose control over their choices is slowly eroded away every waking moment, until they are left at the mercy of, and dependent on, other people who will choose whether or not they want to make that person's choices for them.

I said 'he sounds like an insufferable narcissist' in my first post. 'Narcissist' may technically be the wrong word but I don't think I was too far off the mark with my sentiment.

A narcissist's thought processes would be more akin to "They'll miss me when I'm gone. That'll learn them, should've been nicer to me when I was alive". Actually I don't know if you're familiar with the story of Dorian Gray, but if you're looking for an example of an amoral, insufferable narcissist, well, he fits the bill quite nicely, no redeeming qualities whatsoever, but an interesting read all the same.


Your cynicism is understandable by the way, I would imagine voluntary suicide isn't everyone's fathomable cup of earl grey so to speak.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Because he was. It was in the ream of ****e you werent bothered reading.

Yeah, why the **** should I be interested in the reams of ****e he's decided people will be interested in reading? 'OMG I'm 60. 9/11. Religious stuff.'

This is only evidence of his own exaggerated sense of self-importance imho.

Anyway, it's all pretty moot as per below.

Deceased:

I’ve planned to end my own life for as long as I remember ... I had no health issues.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Yes.. Its always nice when people who commit suicide, do so quietly and without a fuss. Very considerate..

How nice of you to put words in my mouth. Stop it. The vast majority of people who commit suicide are deeply troubled and must be suffering enormously. I don't believe they're 'selfish' or inconsiderate like some people do. Also, afaia most people who leave a message do so to apologise to those they've left behind (pretty horrible that they leave life apologising).

Most people 'exit the stage' quietly whether they die naturally or by taking their lives. This guy carefully planned, it seems, to get as much publicity as possible - that is not normal.

I dont get this "attention seeking bit though, the man is beyond life so he will never see "his work". Why even go to the effort?

No you certainly don't. I draw your attention to this again.

You will rarely get any details for why a person committed suicide, but that won't be the case with me! In fact, this may be the most detailed example of a suicide letter in history - something to be entered into the Guinness Book of Records! My hope is that it is.

What else is this but seeking posthumous publicity seeking?

Btw, I support people's right to euthanasia (not a blanket right like extending it to an 18-yr-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of three weeks)

UCDVet wrote: »

I absolutely, 100%, support suicide as an option.

Suicide on demand is it? Think it through.

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Yeah, I know, but some people say 'of course people should have suicide rights' without thinking that it's really not that simple.

The people that would say that though are clearly ill informed about the multitude of issues involved, I tend to leave them waffle all the hot air they want because tomorrow for them it'll be something else they'll be wanting, y'know?

"Every day brings a cool new cause" being their only constant raison d'etre.

Czarcasm wrote: »

No disrespect meant UCD but you'd want to be fairly dim if you couldn't understand why anyone would have a problem with supporting suicide.

I really hope your username isn't short for UCD Veteran, or we all might as well just leave this planet now if that's the standard of intellect on display despite a quality third level education at one of the top educational institutions in Ireland.

That Geraldine one from the apprentice may not have been as dumb as she came across on tv either when she quipped "Daddy can't buy you cop on in Trinity College". It seems it's not to be bought in UCD either.

Okay - I understand it.
I just completely disagree with it.