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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012
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Deise_2012 wrote: »Molumphy Brick and Mullane from what I've heard!
Who ever told you that was trying to fool you. Proberly knew you were going to post it. Mullane has allready gone on record swearing on his daughters lives and he also rang michael saying he had nothing to do with it. Molumphy is a loyal and decent lad. After the last player heave against management he refused to go back playing for the county for about 5 months. A selector from his own club that was part of the new management team convinced him to come back. We can also safely assume brick would not stoop to such a low levels.0 -
I don't like coming on here with negativity usually. However, I've been talking with two people very close to the set up and two names that both came up with, that appear to have been instigators, that no one else seem to have mentioned are Noel Connors and Shane O'Sullivan. They appear to have been very involved, as well as Moran, mainly.
That woulda mean both this years captain and vice captain were main players. Interesting. Didn't hear a peep out of Moran all yearlong in captains role but has the balls to pull off this kind of manoeuvre.
These 3 lads are former pupils of Derek McGrath. If Derek is the orgional source of this player revolt to get the current management out so he can come in and take over then I think the next few years under him will be a humilation.0 -
I don't think Michael should put his name back in the hat. Through no fault of his the damage to the panel has been done and I don't see him coming back changing that.
The panel is split 14 west, 16 east by my knowledge, though open to correction. Another poster mentioned that all the eastern players, one notable player plus one other voted against and I have heard the same story with names mentioned. What a mess.0 -
deisedevil wrote: »Your ignorance of the situation and the man in question is glaringly obvious and as a result your opinions are not worthy of debate. It's such a shame that there are people out there who are so quick to belittle men like Sean Cullinane and Michael Ryan who are responsible for much of the good days we have been lucky enough to have had in GAA for this county at many levels because these men gave such an effort. Is there any chance in future you could show the slightest bit more respect to those who deserve it and keep in mind that at the very worst these men have gone out of their way to do the genuine best they could for our county regardless of whether their methods were or were not at the same level as their efforts were.
Truly the most awful post I have seen written on this thread from a fellow Waterford supporter. Given the practically non existent budget the county board have at their disposal, who would you regard as the most suitable candidate and what do you think we should have achieved in the last two years that Ryan didn't?
I'd just love to know where this guys heart was the night of the kk match in thurles. Judging by his post I'd say he was delighted Waterford were beaten so that he could have a cut off the management. I'll say one thing, if McGrath comes in then it will be a bigger disaster than Davy Fitz. McGrath will probably have his ear piece & radio set on him already. I remember a Harty semi final with about 300 people at it & he aping around with a headpiece on him. Cringeworthy stuff altogether.0 -
deisedevil wrote: »Your ignorance of the situation and the man in question is glaringly obvious and as a result your opinions are not worthy of debate. It's such a shame that there are people out there who are so quick to belittle men like Sean Cullinane and Michael Ryan who are responsible for much of the good days we have been lucky enough to have had in GAA for this county at many levels because these men gave such an effort. Is there any chance in future you could show the slightest bit more respect to those who deserve it and keep in mind that at the very worst these men have gone out of their way to do the genuine best they could for our county regardless of whether their methods were or were not at the same level as their efforts were.
Truly the most awful post I have seen written on this thread from a fellow Waterford supporter. Given the practically non existent budget the county board have at their disposal, who would you regard as the most suitable candidate and what do you think we should have achieved in the last two years that Ryan didn't?
See the problem with a message forum is everything is taken on a personal level.. As Michael Ryan the bloke comes across as very personable in fact a guy i would like his company, whitty probably as he put it a players man etc... but as a manager of waterford he is out of his depth.. Just my and many hurling people i know opinion and some of spoofing he went on with last night is purely to steal a march on the players who in my opinion have been either incredibly ill advise or there is some 'Leaders' in the group with no backbone..
Ger Cunningham for a fact didnt take more then 10 training sessions for waterford and im giving myself leeway there..
Physical aspect he got right in the second year albeit on here after Clare game there was plenty of cries for 'we arent fit' and how did we bomb out in the KK game in extra time against a team physically wrecked?
At the time i wanted a Jimmy Meaney or Chuck o Connor to take over they had worked well with a good crop of minors had improved professionalism at that grade for waterford and when the lack of funds were there then a new up and coming coach i felt should have been appointed..
Ryan as i have said on numerous occasion as a man i would say Lovely man but as a hurling manager at elite level out of his depth and only so much you can get away with..
On the point i made about fellas ringing in... The County champions had a weekend away in Kerry thats why the captain didnt ring.0 -
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I'd just love to know where this guys heart was the night of the kk match in thurles. Judging by his post I'd say he was delighted Waterford were beaten so that he could have a cut off the management. I'll say one thing, if McGrath comes in then it will be a bigger disaster than Davy Fitz. McGrath will probably have his ear piece & radio set on him already. I remember a Harty semi final with about 300 people at it & he aping around with a headpiece on him. Cringeworthy stuff altogether.
Talk about my ignorance and a coach has an eye in the crowd looking at aspects he cant see from the pitch as he motivates his players.. A cool head in the stand to tell him may be want to switch this etc and you look at it from the aspect of a fella with an ear piece in and leaping around. 300 or 10000 its still a game that mattered to him and his players and we went the extra mile for them..
And ye call me ignorant.. thats one of the most stupid points ive seen in a long time0 -
On the point i made about fellas ringing in... The County champions had a weekend away in Kerry thats why the captain didnt ring.
Wasn't aware of that. So players from the most represented club on the county panel, including the captain, were not even present at a meeting to express no confidence in their manager? By the sounds of it a group of schoolchildren could have made a better job of this 'meeting'.0 -
See the problem with a message forum is everything is taken on a personal level.. As Michael Ryan the bloke comes across as very personable in fact a guy i would like his company, whitty probably as he put it a players man etc... but as a manager of waterford he is out of his depth.. Just my and many hurling people i know opinion and some of spoofing he went on with last night is purely to steal a march on the players who in my opinion have been either incredibly ill advise or there is some 'Leaders' in the group with no backbone..
Ger Cunningham for a fact didnt take more then 10 training sessions for waterford and im giving myself leeway there..
Physical aspect he got right in the second year albeit on here after Clare game there was plenty of cries for 'we arent fit' and how did we bomb out in the KK game in extra time against a team physically wrecked?
At the time i wanted a Jimmy Meaney or Chuck o Connor to take over they had worked well with a good crop of minors had improved professionalism at that grade for waterford and when the lack of funds were there then a new up and coming coach i felt should have been appointed..
Ryan as i have said on numerous occasion as a man i would say Lovely man but as a hurling manager at elite level out of his depth and only so much you can get away with..
On the point i made about fellas ringing in... The County champions had a weekend away in Kerry thats why the captain didnt ring.
Was there no reception in Kerry? This makes it even more farsical wasnt aware of this. A players meeting when the team captain and 4 or 5 of the squad are away for the weekend with their club. really does look a shambles.
But your previous post is effectively crticising Ryan for going onto Championship matters and speaking up for himself well what were you hoping for? that hed disappear into anonymity and hide in shame like the players were hoping he would? Hes had the balls to sit in front of the nation and say his piece and to say he was trying to 'steal a march' on the players is nonsense if he wanted to he could really have let fly at them but acted with great dignity as per usual.
From what I heard a lot of the players were actually shocked that he handed in his resignation straight away like that and were kind of expecting him to stand his ground and at best were hoping that there would be a shake up in the backroom staff, so it serves them right now that they find themselves with the public against them. Personally I think Ryan shouldnt have acted so rashly by handing in his resignation straight away I think he should have thought about it for a while and maybe a resolution could have been sought and looking at him last night I think he realises that aswell0 -
I don't post here that often but reading about the M Ryan story all week, the first thing I have to say is we are a laughing stock.
Twice in 5 years that players oust their manager?
Leave the man at it, he had to manage a team with limited players this year, I know we didn't win anything but he is not going to work wonders overnight!!
So another manager will come in and change things on the team again?
Seeing as Noel Connors name was mentioned on tv last night by Ryan, he needs to tell his side of the story and the other players involved.
No wonder we can't win the Liam McCarthy if there is a divide on team!!
And the minors win over KK has been overshadowed by all this nonsense also.0 -
While this is a total mess and I can see no winners coming out this apart from our hurling opposition, I do not think it is fair or appropriate to throw out player names and point the blame at individuals with no real evidence to support it.
I firmly believe that this should stop on this forum with immediate effect.
These guys do this for the love of Hurling and for the love of their county and for no other reason. So if 11 players decided to question the current set up, maybe there were right and maybe there were given no alternative.
1. The county board was going to re-appoint Ryan without consulting the players, the two years were up and maybe at least a discussion should have taken place with all involved.
2. If Ryan does now get re-appointed at least now all grievances and issues are out in the open and up for discussion and can be resolved.
3. There are already a number of players who have made themselves unavailable for the team and as result of this I am sure there will be one or two others…but any players with real ambition for success will row in under whichever manager is appointed.
4. If he does get re-appointed and manages to pull everyone together then we have a truly great manager in the making. And while I do not know Ryan in person he definitely learns from past mistakes and learns fast. Unlike other managers we have had in the past who were unwilling to change.
We have a real opportunity to win an All-Ireland in the next few years, but it can only be achieved as a team.
The county board needs to get their act together and start acting professionally – do the right things right and be pro-active. Sort out the financial mess, get out on the streets with the collection bowls, go to the bigger companies in Waterford and get contributions and support. Starting treating the players and the management with respect.
To players - concentrate on your hurling, winning an All-Ireland can be achieved with the talent we have and the more open competitive championship of the next few years. Be patient as you impatience has probable put the biggest obstacle in place now.
And to the rest of us this is our team no matter what….. support it.0 -
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While this is a total mess and I can see no winners coming out this apart from our hurling opposition, I do not think it is fair or appropriate to throw out player names and point the blame at individuals with no real evidence to support it.
I firmly believe that this should stop on this forum with immediate effect.
These guys do this for the love of Hurling and for the love of their county and for no other reason. So if 11 players decided to question the current set up, maybe there were right and maybe there were given no alternative.
1. The county board was going to re-appoint Ryan without consulting the players, the two years were up and maybe at least a discussion should have taken place with all involved.
2. If Ryan does now get re-appointed at least now all grievances and issues are out in the open and up for discussion and can be resolved.
3. There are already a number of players who have made themselves unavailable for the team and as result of this I am sure there will be one or two others…but any players with real ambition for success will row in under whichever manager is appointed.
4. If he does get re-appointed and manages to pull everyone together then we have a truly great manager in the making. And while I do not know Ryan in person he definitely learns from past mistakes and learns fast. Unlike other managers we have had in the past who were unwilling to change.
We have a real opportunity to win an All-Ireland in the next few years, but it can only be achieved as a team.
The county board needs to get their act together and start acting professionally – do the right things right and be pro-active. Sort out the financial mess, get out on the streets with the collection bowls, go to the bigger companies in Waterford and get contributions and support. Starting treating the players and the management with respect.
To players - concentrate on your hurling, winning an All-Ireland can be achieved with the talent we have and the more open competitive championship of the next few years. Be patient as you impatience has probable put the biggest obstacle in place now.
And to the rest of us this is our team no matter what….. support it.
That is probably one of the most sensible posts I have seen here for a while0 -
Deskjockey wrote: »So Derek McGrath is 2/5 with Paddy Power as of yesterday, extremely short odds.
Besides working with De La Salle school teams, has he had involvement with adult teams and what success have they had?
Genuine question
He was in charge of a junior team in Kilkenny for a year in 2009 or 20100 -
See the problem with a message forum is everything is taken on a personal level..In fairness to Michael.. He played the victim card to perfection.. Did some name dropping and then said he was going again ha.. Unreal.. The man has some neck..
Captain would wanna speak up now though and tell their side of the story cause ryan is bleeding them dry at the moment..
Top class coach lined up.. What a spoof.. I wonder how many nights ger cunningham was there cause id say i could count it on one hand... Cullinane defence coach ha thats some shout too... ]
I want waterford hurling to improve and we werent going too with a spoofer like that in charge.. Spent 3 hours with flanagan prob as long as he spent in the field doing physical in the first year...
Who asked him for recap of the season.. Offaly banana skin. since when.. when did they last win a decent game.. Cody said hardest we ever ran kk.. Did he forget the league final and the time if fag o brien hadnt missed the pick up we were in an all ireland..
Surprised he didnt get a call from obama to commiserate with him. His selective opinion was laughable.. What happened Bro Ryan Michael or Nicky Cashin.. He had the neck to hanging in there then..
The fellas ringing in were on the piss down in Kerry with their club..
Well, when YOU make it personal then, yes, yes it is!0 -
What I dont get is why Ryan resigned last Sunday but said last night he was going to throw his hat in the ring again. For him to do that something must of changed, the players stance hasnt changed, the only logical change is that Ryan has been bolstered by the support he is getting, which is presumably from the county board.
After all that has gone on, Ryan would hardly throw his name in to be rejected, so it would be safe to assume that he is the county boards man... and if that is the case then they are basically going to be taking on the players... I cant make sense of it otherwise.
I think we are in for one unholy mess coming up. If Ryan gets appointed in September I can see alot of the current players opting out.
The whole thing is a joke now anyway, if Ryan does get re-appointed it will be his third year and his fourth back room team.... sounds all wrong to me, it shows that he has no ability whatsoever in picking a good team and the players revolt and force the guys out, or the men he is getting in are so dissillusioned with the set up they opt out after a season, not good either way
this is the last thing we need, we are competing on the top table with the least resources for preparation, in which case waterford intercounty hurlers will be disadvantaged when compared to their peers from other counties. and I am afraid that is going to continue for a good many years.0 -
And to the rest of us this is our team no matter what….. support it.
I have no problem supporting our team, but the actions these individuals have taken,shady dealing with half a panel forcing a phone vote without giving the manager an opportunity for a clear the air, and worst of all, showing a complete lack of respect for the minors,a true team, that I cannot support
I think we are in for one unholy mess coming up. If Ryan gets appointed in September I can see alot of the current players opting out.
A simple clear the air session is whats needed, if one or 2 walkfor their own selfish reasons,so be it, no one its bigger than the team0 -
Watching Championship Matters, you could only feel for Michael Ryan. A real selfless gent, you could see he was hurting with the way things transpired.
Its clear his reaction to withdraw following the sunday's player meeting was a knee jerk one, and he has not yet considered his options fully. In fact only for this leaked, I imagine we would not be talking about this at all, rather instead all this dirty laundry would have been sorted out behind the scenes, where it should have remained.
Clearly there was no consultation by the CB with the players, which triggered this desperate course of action by the players. I think this needs to be appreciated, and the regurgitated hearsay, outright speculation and naming and shaming that's been going on seems very harsh, in that context.
Lastly, I think someone needs to grasp the nettle here, and sort out this mess, so we can draw a line under this whole thing and move on. That should be the CB, and not instead rushing to set a managerial selection process in train, while this mess rages on, imo.0 -
seananigans wrote: »I have no problem supporting our team, but the actions these individuals have taken,shady dealing with half a panel forcing a phone vote without giving the manager an opportunity for a clear the air, and worst of all, showing a complete lack of respect for the minors,a true team, that I cannot support
A simple clear the air session is whats needed, if one or 2 walkfor their own selfish reasons,so be it, no one its bigger than the team
Ok I agree with you above but what is done is done ...its how we fix it will be important.0 -
seananigans wrote: »A simple clear the air session is whats needed, if one or 2 walkfor their own selfish reasons,so be it, no one its bigger than the team
One or two walking in that instance is being very very optimistic, these steps werent taken to keep one or two happy.0 -
I know it’s different but from my experience a high percentage of players in every team, are p!ssed off with the manager at one time or another over a season anyway!
I feel for Ryan but you cant resign and then say you want the job a few days later, he didn’t need to resign his term was up anyway, he could have not put his name forward or he could have left the dust settle for a week, see if the situation could be rescued by mediation or something and then if it was, put his name forward again....
not that it is all fault or anything but he took the nuclear option straight away of resigning, the meeting was at 11, it was in the news by half time of the minor match, thats fine but he should stick to that decision then, instead its totally farcical with him going back in for it0 -
I know it’s different but from my experience a high percentage of players in every team, are p!ssed off with the manager at one time or another over a season anyway!
I feel for Ryan but you cant resign and then say you want the job a few days later, he didn’t need to resign his term was up anyway, he could have not put his name forward or he could have left the dust settle for a week, see if the situation could be rescued by mediation or something and then if it was, put his name forward again....
not that it is all fault or anything but he took the nuclear option straight away of resigning, the meeting was at 11, it was in the news by half time of the minor match, thats fine but he should stick to that decision then, instead its totally farcical with him going back in for it
He didn't resign. He "officially informed them he would not be seeking the posiiton" the County Board statement subsequently then indicated if he decided to apply it would be considered.
So the suggestions that they may be talking him into going for it again may not be far wide of the mark.
But I agree the situation is an awful mess.0 -
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Since when were CB's expected to consult with players as to whom should be the manager, I certainly don't get to pick my boss, does anyone else?
And what players do you consult? Should you not consult with every single eligible adult hurler in the county as techniclly once Michael Ryan's tenure was up, there was no panel in place, meaning those 'men' who attended that meeting Sunday morning are no different to the few boys down the pub.0 -
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Mountainlad wrote: »He didn't resign. He "officially informed them he would not be seeking the posiiton" the County Board statement subsequently then indicated if he decided to apply it would be considered.
So the suggestions that they may be talking him into going for it again may not be far wide of the mark.
But I agree the situation is an awful mess.
I suppose the point I am making is that it was totally unnecessarey for what has happened in the last week to be played out in the public eye, the meeting deciding on who the new manager is will not take place until September, why oh why oh why does the whole county have to be talking about this for the next month, with everyone looking in.
No candidate neeeded to be put forward last week, and no candidtate (ryan obviously) needed to pull out last week either, this situation should have been dealt with in house for the last week and resolved one way or the other, instead we are washing our dirty linen in public again. There are so many wrongs on all sides it would make you despair!
Jesus I would have thought a basic for any high profile (ish) team any where in the world is, that in times of crisis, never tell the public anything until you absolutely have to.
Considering that Ryan is now going for the job again, This all came out before it needed too, what a farce0 -
premierstone wrote: »And what players do you consult? Should you not consult with every single eligible adult hurler in the county as techniclly once Michael Ryan's tenure was up, there was no panel in place, meaning those 'men' who attended that meeting Sunday morning are no different to the few boys down the pub.
I'm pissing myself laughing but it's a valid point. He mightn't have had some of the lads that attended on the panel next year.0 -
seananigans wrote: »unhappy on the team or unhappy in the stands? i know which one i'd pick ,we can't allow the players to dictate like this, it's a horrible precedent
Player power is terrible and it does sicken me on this issue, I am not on the players side at all on this one, but I was just pointing out that the fall out will be alot more extreme then one or two players.
But you know what it is an amatuer game, if fellas dont want to play they dont have too, and there eill always be someone to fill that Waterford jersey.0 -
premierstone wrote: »Since when were CB's expected to consult with players as to whom should be the manager, I certainly don't get to pick my boss, does anyone else?
And what players do you consult? Should you not consult with every single eligible adult hurler in the county as techniclly once Michael Ryan's tenure was up, there was no panel in place, meaning those 'men' who attended that meeting Sunday morning are no different to the few boys down the pub.
Of course you are right, isnt it a dangerous precedent?
(This is a purely hypothetical scenario)
Lets just say for harms sake there are 4 high profile all stars in a middle of the road team, who are entering into their mid - 30's and look like they are no longer going to be selected by their current manager, these players, being playing legends, hold huge influence over their younger team mates... realising they are coming to the end of the road, they oust the manager and as they have an input with the county board, influence the appointment of a man who will continue to pick them for a few more seasons.
how damaging would that be? there is a fine line here and what is it exactly the players want? because if they get what they want then the above scenario could happen.0 -
Of course you are right, isnt it a dangerous precedent?
(This is a purely hypothetical scenario)
Lets just say for harms sake there are 4 high profile all stars in a middle of the road team, who are entering into their mid - 30's and look like they are no longer going to be selected by their current manager, these players, being playing legends, hold huge influence over their younger team mates... realising they are coming to the end of the road, they oust the manager and as they have an input with the county board, influence the appointment of a man who will continue to pick them for a few more seasons.
how damaging would that be? there is a fine line here and what is it exactly the players want? because if they get what they want then the above scenario could happen.
Exactly, I have no problem with players views been taking into consideration when an appointment is being mde but to go the whole way and more or less let them dictate who does and more importantly who doesn't get the job is a very very dangerous step and frankly one that there is no road back from.
Something that annoys the sh*t out of me in Hurling and my fellow county men are as guilty if not more so than anyone is this line that gets thrown out regurarly ''would this happen in Kilkenny?'' well there isn't a snow balls chance in hell that the KK county board would allow players to dictate like this, player power is a bit of a pet hate of mine and some guys need to realise that been selected to represent your county at the highest level is a privilage and not a right.0 -
I love lamp.0
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Often in the workplace, workers will give feedback on their manager. It's called 360 degree feedback...
It would be arrogant to think that there will always be someone available to fill the Waterford jersey. Not many people would be willing and able to provide as much commitment as these guys. And before anyone says that they'd give their eye teeth for the chance - you give yourself the chance through a lifetime of dedication and hard work.
Their views are completely valid, but should not have come out in this fashion. If there was a proper review process or forum provided by the County Board, this wouldn't have been allowed to happen.
We're going in circles. There is a vacant senior manager role to be filled, exactly the same as after the KK defeat. Nominations or applications will come in, and Ryan will either apply for it or he won't.0 -
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Often in the workplace, workers will give feedback on their manager. It's called 360 degree feedback...
It would be arrogant to think that there will always be someone available to fill the Waterford jersey. Not many people would be willing and able to provide as much commitment as these guys. And before anyone says that they'd give their eye teeth for the chance - you give yourself the chance through a lifetime of dedication and hard work.
Their views are completely valid, but should not have come out in this fashion. If there was a proper review process or forum provided by the County Board, this wouldn't have been allowed to happen.
We're going in circles. There is a vacant senior manager role to be filled, exactly the same as after the KK defeat. Nominations or applications will come in, and Ryan will either apply for it or he won't.
Ryan got word on Thursday there was a few issues. According to himself, he rang 8 players and 3 of them said straight out they were unhappy. Why didn't Ryan grasp the nettle then and call these lads together.
Even when the shambolic meeting was called on Sunday, look at the time line of events after that. The players had to get in touch with Ryan and the county board you would assume. All these fellas were travelling. It seems as soon as Ryan got the ill advised call he made his mind up not to go for re selection. Not one person seemed to have a cool head. Ryan ( his back room team, if he bothered to consult them) or the county board, not one of them said let's hold fire and meet these lads tomorrow before we make any hasty decisions.
Ryan in haste made the wrong call and the county board fired the whole thing out in the public domain within a few hours of the meeting. Now Ryan upon mature reflection is having second thoughts.
What we still don't know is what the players wanted, was there a call for change or was there an ultimatum given. I have yet to hear from anyone categorically that they players were refusing to work with Ryan next season or that they would withdraw their services if he was re elected.0
This discussion has been closed.
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