Loyalists rioting again

The_Kew_Tour · 13-08-2013 10:21AM

Henlars67 wrote: »

Everyone who lost their lives on both sides of the conflict should be remembered, if their friends and family so wish, just not in a way which is likely to antagonise others.

A simple gathering and a few words at the graveside would suffice.

well yes like anywhere in the world

bilston · 13-08-2013 10:28AM

It's all pretty frustrating for those of us who want to live in peace. What you have here is basically anti-social behaviour that has been latched onto by Loyalist paramilitaries for their own ends. They are leading a generation of young working class teenagers who don't know any better up the garden path to a criminal conviction and a bleak future. It's pretty sad that our politicians aren't brave enough to stand up to these people. I find it pretty frustrating that the DUP spend so much time gurning about parades when they would be better off spending their time worrying about the economy, the hundreds of thousands of people in negative equity in NI, creating jobs for the young, the NHS, getting a bit of clarity in the education system and actually backing the police against these hooligans rather than accusing them of heavy handed tactics. FFS 56 police officers were injured on Friday night, the tactics weren't heavy handed enough!

It's also pretty frustrating that Sinn Fein decide to hold a highly provocative and offensive parade themselves which I can only describe as a petty points scoring exercise, and as much as I wish that the UVF would stop brain washing young working Protestants I also wish that the Dissidient Republicans would stop brain washing the vulnerable working class teenagers of places such as Lurgan, Short Strand and Derry. All it does is continue the cycle of hatred for another generation.

By the way the issues I've just highlighted are what 95% of people in Northern Ireland actually care about, it's just a shame our politicians don't seem too interested in tackling those issues as well and prefer to concentrate on bloody marches.

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 10:33AM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Whats the fcuking thing with all this marching into a place where you're clearly not wanted to prove a point? Absolutely sh!t sick of all of it, from both sides.

Sh!t-stirrers, all of them.

I'm absolutely sick of people coming out with this "both sides" sh!t when it clearly doesnt apply. Republican marches and loyalist marches are not comparable. Republican parades do not go where they are not wanted. The castlederg parade would have been a non-issue had unionism not needed something to distract from the violence they caused in Belfast. And when it became an issue SF voluntarily offered to reroute it.
Actual republican parades are few and far between whereas loyalism/unionism marches on an almost weekly basis.
Republican parades are also a totally different breed. They are almost always held as an act of remembrance for someone, nothing like the coat-trailing 'fuck the taigs' parades of unionism/loyalism. Christ, even the dissident crowd drew the route for their march so it avoided any loyalist areas. It's bad when those guys are more level headed than you.
I dont know why there seems to be this need on boards to add "both sides" to the end of every sentence about the north. It doesnt make you appear impartial, it makes you appear as an uninformed idiot.

gobnaitolunacy · 13-08-2013 10:36AM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I'm absolutely sick of people coming out with this "both sides" sh!t when it clearly doesnt apply. Republican marches and loyalist marches are not comparable. Republican parades do not go where they are not wanted. The castlederg parade would have been a non-issue had unionism not needed something to distract from the violence they caused in Belfast. And when it became an issue SF voluntarily offered to reroute it.
Actual republican parades are few and far between whereas loyalism/unionism marches on an almost weekly basis.
Republican parades are also a totally different breed. They are almost always held as an act of remembrance for someone, nothing like the coat-trailing 'fuck the taigs' parades of unionism/loyalism.
I dont know why there seems to be this need on boards to add "both sides" to the end of every sentence about the north. It doesnt make you appear impartial, it makes you appear as an uninformed idiot.

Whatever dude. Your lot are all shining white innocents alright.
Wish the place could be cut off and floated out to sea.

awec · 13-08-2013 10:38AM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I dont know why there seems to be this need on boards to add "both sides" to the end of every sentence about the north.

Because it's the truth, and only the most deluded of individuals could genuinely think otherwise.

This was a parade of remembrance for two men who failed to blow up a town. Yes, parading through the same town that these two men wanted to destroy. How much more of a "f**k you" can you get?

Personally, I was against the protests. A more suitable protest IMO would have been for all those people to attend the Omagh memorial. A stark reminder of what can happen when people like the two being "remembered" succeed in their goal. Fortunately for the people of Castlederg they failed.

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 10:41AM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Whatever dude. Your lot are all shining white innocents alright.

I never said that, I said the issue of parades is not comparable. Which it isnt.

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Wish the place could be cut off and floated out to sea.

I wish you could be cut off and floated out to sea.

wazky · 13-08-2013 10:53AM

awec wrote: »

Because it's the truth, and only the most deluded of individuals could genuinely think otherwise.

What about the Unionist politicians who refuse to condemn the OO and the rioters but actually lay the blame of the rioting at the door of the Parades Commission?

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 10:58AM

awec wrote: »

Because it's the truth, and only the most deluded of individuals could genuinely think otherwise.

Are we talking about parades or in general here? As far as parading is concerned it's pretty obvious that republicanism and loyalism/unionism is not comparable.
As far as a general overview of the entire conflict goes, only the most uninformed individuals could buy into this one-side-as-bad-as-the-other narrative. It was patently not the case and even the most cursory glance through a few Irish history books will reveal that.

awec wrote: »

This was a parade of remembrance for two men who failed to blow up a town. Yes, parading through the same town that these two men wanted to destroy. How much more of a "f**k you" can you get?

Another fallacy being trotted out about this parade to make it appear to be something it wasnt. It was held in Castlederg because that is where the two volunteers were from.
And where has this notion come from that they were looking to destroy the town? Yes, they had a small nuclear device, they were on their way to blow up the entire town. While I doubt anybody here actually knows where exactly they were going, the accepted theory seems to be they were on their way to attack the RUC/Brit army barracks. Not exactly a pleasant business but in the middle of a war I fail to see the issue.

awec wrote: »

Personally, I was against the protests. A more suitable protest IMO would have been for all those people to attend the Omagh memorial. A stark reminder of what can happen when people like the two being "remembered" succeed in their goal. Fortunately for the people of Castlederg they failed.

Im all for the Omagh memorial but I dont see how it amounts to a protest or indeed has anything to do with what happened in Castlederg. One was IRA volunteers attacking the brit army/RUC in the early 70s when oppression of the nationalist people was at its worst. The other was a dissident bomb, some distance away from any identifiable target, with inadequate warnings, detonated months after a peace agreement had been signed.
No comparison.

timthumbni · 13-08-2013 11:13AM

awec wrote: »

Because it's the truth, and only the most deluded of individuals could genuinely think otherwise.

This was a parade of remembrance for two men who failed to blow up a town. Yes, parading through the same town that these two men wanted to destroy. How much more of a "f**k you" can you get?

Personally, I was against the protests. A more suitable protest IMO would have been for all those people to attend the Omagh memorial. A stark reminder of what can happen when people like the two being "remembered" succeed in their goal. Fortunately for the people of Castlederg they failed.

Very fortunately these 2 failed in their bid to murder and maim innocent citizens of Castlederg. I'm surprised Sinn Fein were so publically supportive of this.

So surreal it Sounds like something from a monty python sketch. Honouring bombers who blew themselves up, in the same town they were attempting to blow up. Weirdos.

Re the protest as long as its peaceful i don't have an issue with it. Pretty hard to ensure peaceful protests up here in Northern Ireland though.

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 11:17AM

timthumbni wrote: »

Very fortunately these 2 failed in their bid to murder and maim innocent citizens of Castlederg. I'm surprised Sinn Fein were so publically supportive of this.

Wrong

timthumbni wrote: »

So surreal it Sounds like something from a monty python sketch. Honouring bombers who blew themselves up, in the same town they were attempting to blow up. Weirdos.

Wrong

timthumbni wrote: »

Re the protest as long as its peaceful i don't have an issue with it. Pretty hard to ensure peaceful protests up here in Northern Ireland though

Wrong

wazky · 13-08-2013 11:22AM

timthumbni wrote: »

Very fortunately these 2 failed in their bid to murder and maim innocent citizens of Castlederg. I'm surprised Sinn Fein were so publically supportive of this.

This parade was held to commemorate all dead IRA members from Co.Tyrone, the two men in question were from the county and had died in 1973.

timthumbni · 13-08-2013 11:51AM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Lol. You are totally right sir. I'm heading to local SF office to join up this morning. They sound like a great bunch of lads altogether.

Hope the free hat and gloves they hand out keeps me warm over the cold winters we have been having in Northern Ireland in recent years.

bilston · 13-08-2013 11:54AM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I'm absolutely sick of people coming out with this "both sides" sh!t when it clearly doesnt apply. Republican marches and loyalist marches are not comparable. Republican parades do not go where they are not wanted. The castlederg parade would have been a non-issue had unionism not needed something to distract from the violence they caused in Belfast. And when it became an issue SF voluntarily offered to reroute it.
Actual republican parades are few and far between whereas loyalism/unionism marches on an almost weekly basis.
Republican parades are also a totally different breed. They are almost always held as an act of remembrance for someone, nothing like the coat-trailing 'fuck the taigs' parades of unionism/loyalism. Christ, even the dissident crowd drew the route for their march so it avoided any loyalist areas. It's bad when those guys are more level headed than you.
I dont know why there seems to be this need on boards to add "both sides" to the end of every sentence about the north. It doesnt make you appear impartial, it makes you appear as an uninformed idiot.

I've no love for elements within the Orange Order but I could easily post plenty of links relating to attacks on Orange Halls (which is parades related) but as I said before I would rather get past the whole whataboutery malarky as it serves no one.

Foxhound38 · 13-08-2013 12:00PM

Can we not just cordon off a deserted area of NI specifically for idiots to parade/fight around and ban it everywhere else? That way only willing participants get caught up in it, the police don't get injured and Belfast doesn't get destroyed.

They could televise it as a Pay Per View, royal rumble style event and make a bit of money for the economy

bilston · 13-08-2013 12:03PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Can we not just cordon off a deserted area of NI specifically for idiots to parade/fight around and ban it everywhere else? That way only willing participants get caught up in it, the police don't get injured and Belfast doesn't get destroyed.

They could televise it as a Pay Per View, royal rumble style event and make a bit of money for the economy

The Maze?

wazky · 13-08-2013 12:08PM

bilston wrote: »

I've no love for elements within the Orange Order but I could easily post plenty of links relating to attacks on Orange Halls (which is parades related) but as I said before I would rather get past the whole whataboutery malarky as it serves no one.

Then why mention it?

Plenty of links can also be provided for attacks on nationalists also.

guttenberg · 13-08-2013 12:20PM

At the risk of getting lynched, how can you tell those attacks on Orange Halls are "sectarian" and not just some local hood trying to stir tensions within their own community? have the perpetrators been identified? It's not as if it's unknown for one side to attack their own and blame the other and cry victimhood. I'm not saying it definitely isn't the case, but given the level of hypocrisy and double standards that exist in NI, and that it has happened before, I can't help but be skeptical.

bilston · 13-08-2013 12:25PM

wazky wrote: »

Then why mention it?

Plenty of links can also be provided for attacks on nationalists also.

Of course plenty of links can be posted of attacks on Nationalists.

I was replying to a post that said that trouble was coming from one side only.

wazky · 13-08-2013 12:31PM

bilston wrote: »

Of course plenty of links can be posted of attacks on Nationalists.

I was replying to a post that said that trouble was coming from one side only.

It was never said that it is only the loyalists who cause trouble.
The post you quoted said "not comparable", and it was in reference to the parades.

bilston · 13-08-2013 12:31PM

guttenberg wrote: »

At the risk of getting lynched, how can you tell those attacks on Orange Halls are "sectarian" and not just some local hood trying to stir tensions within their own community? have the perpetrators been identified? It's not as if it's unknown for one side to attack their own and blame the other and cry victimhood. I'm not saying it definitely isn't the case, but given the level of hypocrisy and double standards that exist in NI, and that it has happened before, I can't help but be skeptical.

The problem with that is you could say that about anything that happens in Northern Ireland. It's possible though.

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 12:54PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Lol. You are totally right sir. I'm heading to local SF office to join up this morning. They sound like a great bunch of lads altogether.

Hope the free hat and gloves they hand out keeps me warm over the cold winters we have been having in Northern Ireland in recent years.

No need, just get your facts straight before hitting that wee "submit post" button at the bottom of the screen.

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 01:03PM

bilston wrote: »

Of course plenty of links can be posted of attacks on Nationalists.

I was replying to a post that said that trouble was coming from one side only.

You absolutely were not. If you bother to read my post you can clearly see I was saying that the handful of republican parades that happen each year are not comparable to the endless tramp of orange boots on roads around the north.
You're post about orange halls being attacked had nothing to do with issue being discussed but to quote yourself, i let it go to avoid an endless cycle of whataboutery

timthumbni · 13-08-2013 01:06PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

No need, just get your facts straight before hitting that wee "submit post" button at the bottom of the screen.

Thanks. I will pass everything through sinn feins propaganda machine before I submit anything again. I hope I'm not "disappeared" as it would totally be my own fault.

wazky · 13-08-2013 01:09PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Thanks. I will pass everything through sinn feins propaganda machine before I submit anything again. I hope I'm not "disappeared" as it would totally be my own fault.

Ridiculous statement in my opinion, your last couple of posts have had no impact on the discussion and are only inflammatory.

If you can't debate without lowering yourself to childish remarks, why bother?

Karl Stein · 13-08-2013 03:42PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Parades on both sides should just be stopped.

If you stopped Loyalists and Orange men marching around the north all summer they wouldn't have much of a 'culture' left.

I've got to agree with Crooked Jack on the 'both sides' lies. It must take some mental gymnastics to try to pretend the seasonal PUL parading is analogous to the handful of Republican parades.

bilston · 13-08-2013 04:34PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

i let it go to avoid an endless cycle of whataboutery

Obviously

Crooked Jack · 13-08-2013 04:39PM

bilston wrote: »

Obviously

Well when you repeated your lie what am I to do? Allow you to completely misrepresent what I was saying? How about you speak for yourself in the future instead of trying to put words in other people's mouths and we wont have this problem.

Dostoevsky · 14-08-2013 02:22AM

wazky wrote: »

Then why mention it?

Plenty of links can also be provided for attacks on nationalists also.

Not much mention on this site that in the past month, after decades of frequent, and for a long time daily, attacks the Catholic church in Harryville is going to be closed and demolished.

Back in the late 1990s it regularly received international attention when hundreds of Loyalists gathered outside each Saturday night screaming abuse at massgoers. When the taigs finally made it inside, the loyalist bands would kick off in full force belting out anti-Catholic tunes to make it more difficult for the priest to be heard by his congregation. This went on for two years with the massgoers protected by hundreds of British armed forces each night (who would have been better employed rounding up the protesters and transporting them to court for a huge range of hate crimes).

The Catholic population in the area routinely had their homes bombed and attacked during the same period. Most of them were in effect ethnically cleansed from the area.Two years. For how long would similar protests and attacks be tolerated on a church/synagogue in London?

statesaver · 14-08-2013 03:26AM

Sure the loyalists know the English taxpayers will pay for the clean up and their dole.

Wonder how long it will be before the English taxpayer gets pissed off bailing norn iron out

recylingbin · 14-08-2013 03:41AM

I remember not giving a f*ck when I was a kid and I give less of one now.

Loyalists rioting again

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