Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

Red Nissan · 08-08-2013 09:35AM

I was going to vote in favour of the Dublin Bus drivers until I heard yesterday that they are the highest paid bus drivers in Europe, earning some three times in real money than the poorest, add to that, one of the lowest responsibility accountability

cdebru · 08-08-2013 09:41AM

Frank Black wrote: »

Name me one strike in the history of industrial relations disputes which has succeeded in the absence of widespread public support.

Points 1 and 2 are influenced massively by public support or lack thereof, so you're kinda proving my point.

Don't understand what 'possible' has to do with it - Is 'realistic' or 'reasonable' the word you're looking for?

Well it had already been before the Labour Court before the dispute - so wow, they'll recommend the same deal with a couple of cosmetic changes to allow a bit of pride salvaging.

The dispute ended because the workers realised the strike action wasn't going to work. The labour court invitation merely provides them with a little cloak to cover their shame at slinking away.

Teachers, banks, train drivers, ESB workers and on and on vilified by the media no massive public support. I could go on and on the simple fact is that the media will never support any workers
standing up for themselves ( except maybe nurses).

You don't need public support however that is not to say DB drivers did not have any, people are generally fair and recognise people don't go on strike easily, they may not be happy their bus service is missing but vitriol displayed here is only for keyboard warriors with a right wing slant who would bring back slavery if it was profitable.

To paraphrase Mr Adams they haven't gone away you know, we will have to wait and see it could be just half time.;-)

jman0war · 08-08-2013 09:43AM

Under the Labour Court proposals the core pay of the 2,300 drivers at the company would not be affected. However, overtime rates would be cut while premium payments for Sunday work and for working rest days would be scaled back from double time-and-a-half to double time.

Clerical staff at the company would have to work three additional hours per week and see annual leave reduced. Management and executives would have a pay cut of between 3 and 5 per cent

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/strike-latest-at-cie-group-as-companies-seek-to-introduce-financial-restructuring-1.1485099

Oh, the injustice of it all!

/sarcasm

Megatron!! · 08-08-2013 11:25AM

cdebru wrote: »

Your opinion of me as an anonymous internet poster is irrelevant.

what you don't like is having the nonsense that people were posting here challenged, we started off with people claiming drivers were on 54k when that was pointed out to be nonsense we had the nonsense of 46k.

You obviously prefer to just be able to throw out nonsense and not have it challenged.

Simple fact drivers basic salary is 38.5k that nets to 28k after tax, prsi , usc etc.

everyone pays tax, 29.6k after tax if you can do the maths correctly €569 a week take home. I did not throw random figures out at all. I merely stated you knew the figures the whole time but kept them a secret the whole time so you could turn the argument into a childish trolling session.

You get payed way too much for you position, so do your superiors. So again explain to me once more since you keep selectively responding and avoiding this question. How long does it take to get your license and training before you become a driver? Is it 4 years??? because if it is then your on the right wage. If its not, which I know to be a fact then your getting payed too much, simple.

If you left your position your non qualification would merit you minimum wage.....see the point

cdebru · 08-08-2013 01:20PM

Megatron!! wrote: »

everyone pays tax, 29.6k after tax if you can do the maths correctly €569 a week take home. I did not throw random figures out at all. I merely stated you knew the figures the whole time but kept them a secret the whole time so you could turn the argument into a childish trolling session.

You get payed way too much for you position, so do your superiors. So again explain to me once more since you keep selectively responding and avoiding this question. How long does it take to get your license and training before you become a driver? Is it 4 years??? because if it is then your on the right wage. If its not, which I know to be a fact then your getting payed too much, simple.

If you left your position your non qualification would merit you minimum wage.....see the point

What did I keep secret ? I have been saying it is 38.5k from the start of this thread. Did you not see it I must have posted it 10 times.

Who says I get paid too much ? you ?

Well lets do some maths,

€188
€124.80 qualifying adult
€29.80 full rate qualifying child (4 children =€119.20)

total €432 per week x 52 = €22,464 per annum

But it gets better Rent supplement €1000 a month that is €12,000 a year

total €34,464 a year. ( or nearly €5000 better off than a bus driver per annum)

Plus medical card, so free hospital, free doctor, and free medicine.

Back to school allowance another €600,

And you have the brass balls to tell me someone getting up at 4am one week finishing work at 1am the following week working weekends and bank holidays with a take home pay of 29.6k ( your figures) is over paid.

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet but it is directed at the wrong people.

How do you know what my qualifications are ? You know the saying never assume it makes an ass... etc etc

Trust me I would not be working minimum wage apart from my qualifications, why would I ? I would go on the dole and be 5k a year better off.

Your assumption that bus driving is a minimum wage job is based on what ?

OldNotWIse · 08-08-2013 01:25PM

cdebru wrote: »

What did I keep secret ? I have been saying it is 38.5k from the start of this thread. Did you not see it I must have posted it 10 times.

Who says I get paid too much ? you ?

Well lets do some maths,
188
€124.80 qualifying adult
€29.80 full rate qualifying child (4 children =€119.20)

total €432 per week
€ x 52 = €22,464 per annum

But it gets better Rent supplement €1000 a month that is €12,000 a year

total €34,464 a year. ( or nearly €5000 better off than a bus driver per annum)

Plus medical card, so free hospital, free doctor, and free medicine.

Back to school allowance another €600,

And you have the brass balls to tell me someone getting up at 4am one week finishing work at 1am the following week working weekends and bank holidays with a take home pay of 29.6k ( your figures) is over paid.

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet but it is directed at the wrong people.

How do you know what my qualifications are ? You know the saying never assume it makes an ass... etc etc

Trust me I would not be working minimum wage apart from my qualifications, why would I ? I would go on the dole and be 5k a year better off.

Your assumption that bus driving is a minimum wage job is based on what ?

For doing nothing... I must be doing something wrong. :mad:

cdebru · 08-08-2013 01:39PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

For doing nothing... I must be doing something wrong. :mad:

Plus they pay your rent up to €12,000 a year, seriously wondering WTF am I doing ????

I can also see how why these guys are working for private operators getting paid into the hand, chances of being caught seem minimal, I was talking to someone last week, he is doing odd days for a private operator, working for BE gets €100 a day into his hand, I see now how it is worth his while, he is already better off than working for DB the few days here and there are just gravy.

Foxtrol · 08-08-2013 01:42PM

cdebru wrote: »

What did I keep secret ? I have been saying it is 38.5k from the start of this thread. Did you not see it I must have posted it 10 times.

Who says I get paid too much ? you ?

Well lets do some maths,

€188
€124.80 qualifying adult
€29.80 full rate qualifying child (4 children =€119.20)

total €432 per week x 52 = €22,464 per annum

But it gets better Rent supplement €1000 a month that is €12,000 a year

total €34,464 a year. ( or nearly €5000 better off than a bus driver per annum)

Plus medical card, so free hospital, free doctor, and free medicine.

Back to school allowance another €600,

And you have the brass balls to tell me someone getting up at 4am one week finishing work at 1am the following week working weekends and bank holidays with a take home pay of 29.6k ( your figures) is over paid.

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet but it is directed at the wrong people.

How do you know what my qualifications are ? You know the saying never assume it makes an ass... etc etc

Trust me I would not be working minimum wage apart from my qualifications, why would I ? I would go on the dole and be 5k a year better off.

Your assumption that bus driving is a minimum wage job is based on what ?

Once again pointing out how the government is paying out way too much on social welfare doesn’t do anything to justify your wages. The fact you think that way says a lot about your mindset and goes a long way to explain the irrationality and greed behind the strike.

It’s like me going into my boss and trying to justify a pay increase using your bloated wages for an unskilled job as a benchmark. I’d be laughed out a door.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 01:49PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Once again pointing out how the government is paying out way too much on social welfare doesn’t do anything to justify your wages. The fact you think that way says a lot about your mindset and goes a long way to explain the irrationality and greed behind the strike.

It’s like me going into my boss and trying to justify a pay increase using your bloated wages for an unskilled job as a benchmark. I’d be laughed out a door.

Don't be a fool man don't use DB wages tell him what you would get for lying in bed, it is much more.

My mindset really, I have never been unemployed in my life,
It points out that you people are full of **** which is good enough for me.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 01:55PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

I was going to vote in favour of the Dublin Bus drivers until I heard yesterday that they are the highest paid bus drivers in Europe, earning some three times in real money than the poorest, add to that, one of the lowest responsibility accountability

So presumably you have benchmarked your wages against what people are paid for the same job in the poorer countries of Europe and have approached your employer looking for a wage reduction ???

Foxtrol · 08-08-2013 02:00PM

cdebru wrote: »

So presumably you have benchmarked your wages against what people are paid for the same job in the poorer countries of Europe and have approached your employer looking for a wage reduction ???

Eh… how many country’s governments are as broke as we are? Yet you think the broke nation (government and public) should continue to subsidise your ridiculous celtic tiger era wages.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:02PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Eh… how many country’s governments are as broke as we are? Yet you think the broke nation (government and public) should continue to subsidise your ridiculous celtic tiger era wages.

Ridiculous ???

Less than what they would pay me if I was on social welfare is a ridiculous wage alright, who do I see about a pay rise ?

(oh and btw I read the new LC rec, I have no idea wtf they stayed up till 5am talking about, it is pure ****e worse than the original hopefully they will be told to stick it)

Frank Black · 08-08-2013 02:12PM

cdebru wrote: »

So presumably you have benchmarked your wages against what people are paid for the same job in the poorer countries of Europe and have approached your employer looking for a wage reduction ???

If you work for a private sector company, your job, never mind your salary, will depend on whether that company can stay in business.

A private company faced with the kind of losses that that DB currently makes would be slashing payroll costs by multiples of what triggered your embarrassing public tantrum.

You're being artificially cushioned from this reality by the largesse of the tax-payers of this country.

Your sense of entitlement and lack of self awareness are breathtaking, but have provided us all with an insight into the warped views which some of your members hold.

I would favour more drastic cuts to your salary and use those savings on targeted measures to boost the economy.

If you don't want to work for a reduced salary, there are plenty of people willing to take your place.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:18PM

Frank Black wrote: »

If you work for a private sector company, your job, never mind your salary, will depend on whether that company can stay in business.

A private company faced with the kind of losses that that DB currently makes would be slashing payroll costs by multiples of what triggered your embarrassing public tantrum.

You're being artificially cushioned from this reality by the largesse of the tax-payers of this country.

Your sense of entitlement and lack of self awareness are breathtaking, but have provided us all with an insight into the warped views which some of your members hold.

I would favour more drastic cuts to your salary and use those savings on targeted measures to boost the economy.

If you don't want to work for a reduced salary, there are plenty of people willing to take your place.

Why would I want to work for a reduced salary when I would get more on the dole ?

It is not a ****ing charity I am running.

BTW I think your own awareness needs a little adjustment.

The Labour party protecting those on social welfare by ****ing those who actually work can't wait to see them on my doorstep.

end of the road · 08-08-2013 02:20PM

Frank Black wrote: »

If you don't want to work for a reduced salary, there are plenty of people willing to take your place.

untrue, very few people would want to be a bus driver even with the current wages, they believe it to be a low class job even though it isn't

JRant · 08-08-2013 02:20PM

cdebru wrote: »

What did I keep secret ? I have been saying it is 38.5k from the start of this thread. Did you not see it I must have posted it 10 times.

Who says I get paid too much ? you ?

Well lets do some maths,

€188
€124.80 qualifying adult
€29.80 full rate qualifying child (4 children =€119.20)

total €432 per week x 52 = €22,464 per annum

But it gets better Rent supplement €1000 a month that is €12,000 a year

total €34,464 a year. ( or nearly €5000 better off than a bus driver per annum)

Plus medical card, so free hospital, free doctor, and free medicine.

Back to school allowance another €600,

And you have the brass balls to tell me someone getting up at 4am one week finishing work at 1am the following week working weekends and bank holidays with a take home pay of 29.6k ( your figures) is over paid.

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet but it is directed at the wrong people.

How do you know what my qualifications are ? You know the saying never assume it makes an ass... etc etc

Trust me I would not be working minimum wage apart from my qualifications, why would I ? I would go on the dole and be 5k a year better off.

Your assumption that bus driving is a minimum wage job is based on what ?

Considering you've been so quick to call people up on the figures they've been using regarding db drivers it's a shame you'd resort to sensationalists figures like those.

I may be reading you wrong but are you suggesting people should direct their displeasure at those on benefits?

Frank Black · 08-08-2013 02:22PM

cdebru wrote: »

(oh and btw I read the new LC rec, I have no idea wtf they stayed up till 5am talking about, it is pure ****e worse than the original hopefully they will be told to stick it)

Told you.

Frank Black wrote: »

Well it had already been before the Labour Court before the dispute - so wow, they'll recommend the same deal with a couple of cosmetic changes to allow a bit of pride salvaging.

The dispute ended because the workers realised the strike action wasn't going to work. The labour court invitation merely provides them with a little cloak to cover their shame at slinking away.

There's no way they'll be told to 'stick it' btw. Not after Tuesday's fiasco. You should ask your colleagues how many of them are willing to go back out onto the streets - other than the usual hard-core union lickspittles, very few I'd imagine.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:22PM

end of the road wrote: »

untrue, very few people would want to be a bus driver even with the current wages, they believe it to be a low class job even though it isn't

TBH they can have it, see how long they stick it.

Where do you go to apply for social welfare these days ?

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:23PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Told you.

There's no way they'll be told to 'stick it' btw. Not after Tuesday's fiasco. You should ask your colleagues how many of them are willing to go back out onto the streets - other than the usual hard-core union lickspittles, very few I'd imagine.

We will see, but this one is even worse than the last, the only thing they clarified was how badly written the first one was.

BTW don't be overly proud of your prediction I predicted the strike, the day of the intervention the day of the return to work, and the all night session as well as a ****e deal last week.

tomatosauce34 · 08-08-2013 02:23PM

No of course not. I actually drive now because I got so tired of dealing with shoddy bus services in this country. It's more expensive, but at least I am not at the mercy of overpaid, unionised, public sector workers. Win Win.

JRant · 08-08-2013 02:25PM

end of the road wrote: »

untrue, very few people would want to be a bus driver even with the current wages, they believe it to be a low class job even though it isn't

And of course you speak for everyone.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:28PM

JRant wrote: »

Considering you've been so quick to call people up on the figures they've been using regarding db drivers it's a shame you'd resort to sensationalists figures like those.

I may be reading you wrong but are you suggesting people should direct their displeasure at those on benefits?

What is sensationalist in pointing out that social welfare is currently better than working ?I did not make up the figures they are on the DSP site.

No I think peoples displeasure should be directed at those that got us into this mess and think the way out of it is to screw ordinary working people into the ground.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:29PM

JRant wrote: »

And of course you speak for everyone.

As much as anyone here does....

Frank Black · 08-08-2013 02:31PM

cdebru wrote: »

We will see, but this one is even worse than the last, the only thing they clarified was how badly written the first one was.

BTW don't be overly proud of your prediction I predicted the strike, the day of the intervention the day of the return to work, and the all night session as well as a ****e deal last week.

Not proud - one didn't have to be Mystic Meg to see how it would play. And I'll stick with my prediction of an acceptance by your members of the 'new' deal on offer.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:32PM

tomatosauce34 wrote: »

No of course not. I actually drive now because I got so tired of dealing with shoddy bus services in this country. It's more expensive, but at least I am not at the mercy of overpaid, unionised, public sector workers. Win Win.

Public sector workers are entitled to get the bus as well, you can't pick and choose who else gets on the bus.

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:34PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Not proud - one didn't have to be Mystic Meg to see how it would play. And I'll stick with my prediction of an acceptance by your members of the 'new' deal on offer.

Hard to know personally I wouldn't accept it I would be amazed if it passed but it depends on how much pressure union leadership puts on people.

bumper234 · 08-08-2013 02:36PM

How can you feel for Dublin bus drivers.

Hard to feel anything when yet again standing at the bus stop this morning and the bus does not arrive. 20 min later the next one arrives and when you ask driver what happened to the earlier one he grunts about not his problem. Great customer service by that driver, wouldn't piss on one if he was on fire.

JRant · 08-08-2013 02:36PM

cdebru wrote: »

What is sensationalist in pointing out that social welfare is currently better than working ?I did not make up the figures they are on the DSP site.

No I think peoples displeasure should be directed at those that got us into this mess and think the way out of it is to screw ordinary working people into the ground.

I never said the figure were wrong, they are sensationalist. Sure why not take someone with 8 kids?

For a single person those figures can be drasticly lower and if your 23 or under it's even worse again.

Nobody in db is getting screwed into the ground, come off it. You want to protect perks and privilages, that's fair enough. Don't expect widespread support for it though.

You do realise that cutting welfare will lead to a reduction in pay for workers like yourself eventually.

tomatosauce34 · 08-08-2013 02:38PM

cdebru wrote: »

Public sector workers are entitled to get the bus as well, you can't pick and choose who else gets on the bus.

This has nothing to do with the opinion I presented

cdebru · 08-08-2013 02:40PM

JRant wrote: »

I never said the figure were wrong, they are sensationalist. Sure why not take someone with 8 kids?

For a single person those figures can be drasticly lower and if your 23 or under it's even worse again.

Nobody in db is getting screwed into the ground, come off it. You want to protect perks and privilages, that's fair enough. Don't expect widespread support for it though.

You do realise that cutting welfare will lead to a reduction in pay for workers like yourself eventually.

Because I don't have 8 kids,

No one driving a bus under 23 years old in DB

Most people in DB are married with kids, most again are the sole earner in their household.

Not suggesting welfare should be cut, just that working people need to be protected as well.

Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

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