Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

namloc1980 · 08-08-2013 01:39AM

epluribusunum wrote: »

One last chance. Here we go:

I think Hitler would have deserved the death penalty.

It is concerning if you disagree with this. For your mental health.

Just like Anyone else who takes a life. What is the difference in intentionally taking 1 life versus millions? Outside of the quantitative aspect, the principle does not change.

So is there a certain number that must be reached? If so, at what number did Hitler deserve the death penalty?? 1,2,3, millionth Jew? Which number? Because they all had families, and a life.

Or did he not deserve it at all? I hope you do not believe this.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why are you going on about Hitler?? Killing humans is wrong full stop. I know you are trying to turn this into a "being anti death penalty means you are pro-Nazis" point which is utterly bizarre and completely weakens and invalidates your arguments to this point.

First nazis and now ignoring posts now. Quite impressively you've become your own parody. Congratulations!

end of the road · 08-08-2013 01:59AM

epluribusunum wrote: »

I will re-post it until someone addresses it. Here we go:

I think Hitler would have deserved the death penalty.

It is concerning if you disagree with this. For your mental health.

Just like Anyone else who takes a life. What is the difference in intentionally taking 1 life versus millions? Outside of the quantitative aspect, the principle does not change.

So is there a certain number that must be reached? If so, at what number did Hitler deserve the death penalty?? 1,2,3, millionth Jew? Which number? Because they all had families, and a life.

Or did he not deserve it at all? I hope you do not believe this.

he didn't deserve it at all

Irish Musician · 08-08-2013 02:01AM

No......

end of the road · 08-08-2013 02:07AM

Yellow121 wrote: »

Why not just kill them to make sure?

because life in prison is perfectly fine

epluribusunum · 08-08-2013 02:17AM

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't deserve it at all

And that is why I am going to completely remove myself from this thread.

You cannot be sane to believe that what Hitler did was not grounds for the death penalty. You are the definition of disgusting to believe that which based on your earlier posts I think you seriously do. I guess the Jews, Slavs, etc should have contributed to his would be prison expenses as well?

green123 · 08-08-2013 03:37AM

.

osarusan · 08-08-2013 05:27AM

epluribusunum wrote: »

And that is why I am going to completely remove myself from this thread.

You cannot be sane to believe that what Hitler did was not grounds for the death penalty. You are the definition of disgusting to believe that which based on your earlier posts I think you seriously do. I guess the Jews, Slavs, etc should have contributed to his would be prison expenses as well?

How is it so hard for you to understand why people oppose the death penalty. Your twisted logic tells you that because a person believes Hitler should not be executed, that person believes that Hitler's crimes didn't warrant execution - therefore to some level condoning them. Let me try and explain why this is stupid and wrong.

I don't oppose the death penalty because I want to excuse or condone the behaviour of scumbags, or because I care more about the perpetrator than the victim, or other such nonsense. They deserve to stay in prison for a long time, even until they die if that is necessary for the safety of others.

It's not because I care about the criminal, it's because I care about society. I would hate to think that Irish people, as a society, believed that giving the state the power to end the life of a criminal, was the right thing to do, considering the consequences of any miscarriage of justice, but more importantly, the innate hypocrisy of the concept of capital punishment, and its inhumane treatment of humans.

Yellow121 · 08-08-2013 08:11AM

end of the road wrote: »

because life in prison is perfectly fine

Why? Life in prison is not that bad these days. Conditions are very good, too good for the type of person we are talking about.

dr.bollocko · 08-08-2013 11:23AM

mod:

Lads post civilly or not at all.

Fair warning.

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:14PM

green123 wrote: »

i cant understand why we need repeat offenders as part of society, maybe someone can explain it to me ?

surely the world would be a better place without these people ?

3 strikes and you are out - simple as that

No, it's not as simple as a numbers lottery. It's about ensuring your society does not become a vengeful killing machine in order to keep some shrill voters happy. It's about responsibility for all the people your society nurtures. "Good" and "bad".

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:19PM

epluribusunum wrote: »

Logic is hard to manipulate, yes?

There is little, if any, logic in bringing Hitler into an argument about whether or not to re-introduce the death penalty in Ireland.

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:23PM

epluribusunum wrote: »

What? The definition of sentient is the ability to perceive or feel things. A sentient being has empathy towards others and understands what suffering is.

Secondly, she used that word- not me- so get your facts straight. But I like your attempt at sarcasm...quite an original delivery.

Lastly, why are you so protective over such a monster anyway?

Who are you calling a monster?

Yellow121 · 08-08-2013 12:23PM

old hippy wrote: »

No, it's not as simple as a numbers lottery. It's about ensuring your society does not become a vengeful killing machine in order to keep some shrill voters happy. It's about responsibility for all the people your society nurtures. "Good" and "bad".

I think we've gone too soft. Back in the day humans killed eachother and no one batted an eyelid. People fought to the death. Life wasn't seen as so precious.
Now, obviously it's good we've moved on but we're going too far in the opposite direction. We don't owe rapists and cold blooded murderers anything.
I used to think like you, kill these people and we're just as bad but now I think different. These people deserve the ultimate punishment, they don't deserve what we hold so precious. They don't deserve lfe.

Love2u · 08-08-2013 12:24PM

epluribusunum wrote: »

And that is why I am going to completely remove myself from this thread.

You cannot be sane to believe that what Hitler did was not grounds for the death penalty. You are the definition of disgusting to believe that which based on your earlier posts I think you seriously do. I guess the Jews, Slavs, etc should have contributed to his would be prison expenses as well?

Stick with the topic! The thread has nothing to do with Hitler. Open a new thread for him if you wish. Stay on course with the matter at hand. Death penalty!!

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:28PM

epluribusunum wrote: »

You did not address any issue of debate but instead went ahead and criticized a description because you had no point to make. I said that adults are also a clump of cells just like a fetus and you could not rebut. I said lethal injection is also a medical procedure just like abortion and you could not rebut. These are both derived from science so you cannot manipulate it out of convenience.

Which by the way, I think every sane person would call the Boston bombers monsters. I do not know how you can possibly sympathize with someone who planned, walked along a row of people, dropped bombs, walked away, and watched people scream for their life in distraught, then went ahead and shot a cop from point blank range later that week for no reason, and then when the survivor went to court he looked the family members of the victims in the eyes, smirked and then pleaded "not guilty." If that is not a monster I do not know what is. If he has no remorse for his actions, and no regard for the life of others then why should the tax payers who witnessed this first hand have to pay for him to live the rest of his life? How can you sympathize with someone like that? Disgusting, truly disgusting. He killed this kid who is 8 and took his sister's leg who was 7 and yet according to you he does not deserve to die, that is absurd. It is not about revenge, it is about justice for the victims. And, yes the victims do matter considering how they are completely innocent and had this awful act put on their burden. I cannot believe you had the audacity to say that we should not sympathize with victims of terrible acts. Then who should we sympathize for? Ridiculous.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1089212/thumbs/o-MARTIN-RICHARD-BOSTON-MARATHON-BOMBINGS-VICTIM-570.jpg?6

Please address the above because you are one sick individual if you can sympathize with those actions. I do not think you live in the real world if this is the case.

You are not using logic but instead an ignorant progressive way of thinking, supported by your profound support of the hippy movement, that rejects common sense. Just because you try to differ in philosophical views of the "mainstream" at the extent of sounding ridiculous does not make you more intellectual, instead most would argue it makes you seem out of touch with reality. Think for yourself and not what a group feeds to you, yeah all forms of abortion is okay but monsters should get to live. Give me a break.

Emotive bobbins. Where have I said I sympathise with the Boston bombers? I don't. But I don't know their full story and what kind of madness drove them to their actions. Was it religious, political or (as latest reports suggest) possibly linked with far right sympathies? Whatever the case - I condemn their actions. But I won't be howling with the mob sentiment that they are monsters. They are desperate, misguided people and deserve our scrutiny at the very least. If that's sick, then I'm willing and illin'.

My profound support of the hippy movement? My what of the what? Can you elaborate on that statement which has left me proufoundly confused?

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:30PM

Yellow121 wrote: »

I think we've gone too soft. Back in the day humans killed eachother and no one batted an eyelid. People fought to the death. Life wasn't seen as so precious.
Now, obviously it's good we've moved on but we're going too far in the opposite direction. We don't owe rapists and cold blooded murderers anything.
I used to think like you, kill these people and we're just as bad but now I think different. These people deserve the ultimate punishment, they don't deserve what we hold so precious. They don't deserve lfe.

I promise you, you never used to think like me.

mickydoomsux · 08-08-2013 12:31PM

old hippy wrote: »

It's about responsibility for all the people your society nurtures. "Good" and "bad".

It isn't societies job to tolerate or babysit these people who aren't willing to abide by that self same societies rules.

Yellow121 · 08-08-2013 12:32PM

old hippy wrote: »

I promise you, you never used to think like me.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Love2u · 08-08-2013 12:33PM

Yellow121 wrote: »

Why? Life in prison is not that bad these days. Conditions are very good, too good for the type of person we are talking about.

It seems prison is "bad these days" and who are we to say conditions are very good unless we have ourselves spend time there to say any different. What "type" of person are we talking about? No one has the right to take human life away, and no one deserves death penalty. What about finding out the reasons that led up to a person committing such crimes, how about trying to evaluate and dish out proper structures and help for these people. Death doesn't work, it creates a whole new set of problems.

gitane007 · 08-08-2013 12:35PM

Hard Labour...............make clothes build playgrounds finish unfinished developments or fix roads for the country for nothing. Fix leaking water or sewer pipes or clean up the canals or sort recycling. ****in loads they could be doin that could save us all money rather than costing us money.

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:39PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It isn't societies job to tolerate or babysit these people who aren't willing to abide by that self same societies rules.

Yes, it is. Society is not exclusive. It is our duty to ensure all in it are treated fairly.

Yellow121 · 08-08-2013 12:40PM

Love2u wrote: »

It seems prison is "bad these days" and who are we to say conditions are very good unless we have ourselves spend time there to say any different. What "type" of person are we talking about? No one has the right to take human life away, and no one deserves death penalty. What about finding out the reasons that led up to a person committing such crimes, how about trying to evaluate and dish out proper structures and help for these people. Death doesn't work, it creates a whole new set of problems.

We're talking about rapists and cold blooded murderers. We can try and help these people if problems are spotted, we can help them as much as we can until they cross that line.
Once they're over it there's no turning back. There is no reason good enough to commit such acts. None. Death is a punishment that's fitting in these cases.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-08-2013 12:41PM

gitane007 wrote: »

Hard Labour...............make clothes build playgrounds finish unfinished developments or fix roads for the country for nothing. Fix leaking water or sewer pipes or clean up the canals or sort recycling. ****in loads they could be doin that could save us all money rather than costing us money.

In other words, take paid labour away from people?

Amirani · 08-08-2013 12:42PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In other words, take paid labour away from people?

Exactly. What about the people who specialise in providing those services? They won't be able to employ people at similar wages and thus won't be able to compete. Why is it fair for them to go out of business?

Yellow121 · 08-08-2013 12:46PM

old hippy wrote: »

Yes, it is. Society is not exclusive. It is our duty to ensure all in it are treated fairly.

If we let them live we are not treating them fairly. The fair thing for rapists and murderers is the ending of their existence.

wexie · 08-08-2013 12:46PM

old hippy wrote: »

Yes, it is. Society is not exclusive. It is our duty to ensure all in it are treated fairly.

....Even though some completely abuse the rights they have been given? Deprive other, innocents, of their rights thereby ensuring the non fair treatment of some?

On second thought :

I'm not going to argue with you on this because while at some level I respect your dogged perseverance and unshakeable belief in the good of people I think we've proved in the past we'll never agree on something like this. I fully believe some people are beyond any reasonable chance of redemption.

old hippy · 08-08-2013 12:51PM

Yellow121 wrote: »

If we let them live we are not treating them fairly. The fair thing for rapists and murderers is the ending of their existence.

No, the fair thing is to delve deep into their psyche/backgrounds and all those who find themselves acting in similar fashion. We cannot prevent or control those actions until we have more information and documentation. Rehabilitation may not work in some cases but the death penalty is not a deterrent.

gitane007 · 08-08-2013 12:52PM

Originally Posted by Princess Consuela Bananahammock View Post
In other words, take paid labour away from people?

You could just have them supervise and pass on the skills needed to do the jobs, .............they could still get paid and have less work to do and eventually rise to higher skill sets with all that lovely extra spare time, they could also concentrate more time towards their familys which in turn lends to a better society all round cos kids have parents at home and are engaged with them more and not just sent out to "play with the traffic". People could take more time off , go on more holidays , experience more culture differences, take those experiences back to Ireland, All the while earning the same money but doin way less work or rather sacrificing way less of their time for work.

Love2u · 08-08-2013 12:54PM

Yellow121 wrote: »

We're talking about rapists and cold blooded murderers. We can try and help these people if problems are spotted, we can help them as much as we can until they cross that line.
Once they're over it there's no turning back. There is no reason good enough to commit such acts. None. Death is a punishment that's fitting in these cases.

There is no reason good enough for us to introduce death penalty, it doesn't work. "You shall not kill".

Yellow121 · 08-08-2013 12:54PM

old hippy wrote: »

No, the fair thing is to delve deep into their psyche/backgrounds and all those who find themselves acting in similar fashion. We cannot prevent or control those actions until we have more information and documentation. Rehabilitation may not work in some cases but the death penalty is not a deterrent.

How is that fair? They viciously rape or kill someone and in return we give them some counselling.
That's the opposite of fair.

Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

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