Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Why can nobody speak Irish?

1…3031333536…55

Comments

  • #962
    epluribusunum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭epluribusunum


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Having spent many years living with them, I can assure you the vast majority of Eruopeans know the difference between Ireland and Britain. Brits, on the other hand - not so good. Some of them still need to ask wheter or not Dublin is in the North or the South. Similarly, lots of English people don't know the origins of Andy Murray. (Continentals will say British, which is not technically incorrect).

    I still think, long term, Ireland will be assimilated, though - but into Europe, not in Britain. Europe offers more stability.

    Lol I have also spent many years living with them trust me.

    I guess it depends what part of EU then. And obviously, most Europeans that come to Ireland know the difference because they live there. But back home they do not now know, and if they do then they do not have a good idea- generally speaking of course.


  • #963
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    epluribusunum wrote: »
    Language and religion my friend, you did a great job of keeping religion but the language has all but left. By the time it occurs religious attitudes will be far more tolerant though and it will not be an issue.

    The language was mostly gone 150 years ago. Church attendance has been in free fall since I was born. Halving in 25 years isn't exactly a great job.


  • #964
    epluribusunum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭epluribusunum


    psinno wrote: »
    The language was mostly gone 150 years ago. Church attendance has been in free fall since I was born. Halving in 25 years isn't exactly a great job.

    Exactly. So it may be sooner than you expect. Clear decrease in church attendance and to most of the born citizens the national primary language is foreign to them.

    If somewhere down the line Ireland is in a depression and the UK is willing to take them in then I believe it is very likely. There are so many obvious ties- culturally they are the most common compared to other entities in the EU, family ties are abundant, both speak English fluently and well, very close proximity, and both would gain from such an agreement if the right circumstances occurred. Ireland gets bailed out and the UK gains resources. Everybody would be a winner.

    So when it makes economic sense I believe there is no reason this will not happen.


  • #965
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    epluribusunum wrote: »
    Lol I have also spent many years living with them trust me.

    I guess it depends what part of EU then. And obviously, most Europeans that come to Ireland know the difference because they live there. But back home they do not now know, and if they do then they do not have a good idea- generally speaking of course.

    That would be Paris, Denmark, Stockholm and Berlin. Universally knowledgeable as to the location and political status of Ireland. The Lisbon treaty left them in no doubts (not that there were any before).

    Portsmouth and Birmingham on the other hand....

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #966
    epluribusunum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭epluribusunum


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    That would be Paris, Denmark, Stockholm and Berlin. Universally knowledgeable as to the location and political status of Ireland. The Lisbon treaty left them in no doubts (not that there were any before).

    Portsmouth and Birmingham on the other hand....

    I never said all of Europe has a poor understanding. I said "most people who do not have a good knowledge of Western Europe." You are accusing me of something I did not say. This could mean North or South Americans, Asians, Europeans, anybody. My point was that is you asked them if Belfast is part of the Republic or the UK they would generally not know if they are already not in tune with Western Europe politics/history or living there. Only speaking in terms of people who do not have a good understanding of Western Europe.


  • Advertisement
  • #967
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    epluribusunum wrote: »
    I never said all of Europe has a poor understanding. I said "most people who do not have a good knowledge of Western Europe." You are accusing me of something I did not say. This could mean North or South Americans, Asians, Europeans, anybody. My point was that is you asked them if Belfast is part of the Republic or the UK they would generally not know if they are already not in tune with Western Europe politics/history or living there. Only speaking in terms of people who do not have a good understanding of Western Europe.

    Actually, I never accused you of saying anything. I merely pointed out that Europeans had a better idea of Ireland than the Britsish did. I then backed it up be telling you where I'd lived.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #968
    epluribusunum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭epluribusunum


    Meow!


  • #969
    BognarRegis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭BognarRegis


    An Coilean wrote: »
    So you believe that it is not possible for there to be more than one common language amongst a group of people?
    You do realise that there are many examples of this in the world?
    I said no such thing. I have tried to explain that multiple languages complicate human interaction and create practical difficulties. Why create a problem where none presently exists?
    An Coilean wrote: »
    I know, but it is hardly a fundemental error, a minor semantic one really.
    Anyway, is there any actions that they have taken that would support your argument?
    What error? There is no error. They have plainly stated that they want to reinstate Irish as the common language of Ireland. You and I might find the idea absurd but this is what thay have declared to be their main aim. It is spelled out, in writing, in clear plain English, for all to see on their website.

    There is no mistake.


  • #970
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Rubeter wrote: »
    This applies to all humans, I am interested in your theory about Irish people being linguistically retarded not this well known information about people in general.

    "Linguistically retarded" are your words, not mine.

    I have simply pointed out that in the past we haven't been that great at picking up a second language, as evidenced by our years of failure at trying to get people to learn Irish (even with all of the "importance" that was placed on it)...or any other language for that matter.

    I don't why for sure why that it is, I just see that it is.
    Rubeter wrote: »
    But I'm Irish I want to know how come this problem doesn't affect me,

    ...and again...you have an interest in the language. That gives you a particular bent towards it.
    Rubeter wrote: »
    ...surely for the sake of future generations it would be good to analyse those of us without this inability, so medical help can be given ensuring future generations aren't infected. Do you think the agent is biological, chemical or maybe even psychosomatic caused by an emotional response to the weather? It can't be genetic because many people living here and not doing well in school Irish are not from "ethnically Gaelic stock".

    Do you really think this this type of shit is aiding the discussion? :rolleyes:


  • #971
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    epluribusunum wrote: »
    Well then I guess your country should alter your Constitution to saying English is your national primary language. Just because it is convenient for you.

    Perhaps it should. But not because of any convienience to anybody, but because it would be a more honest reflection of reality. Irish is NOT the primary language of this nation. It doesn't matter what the constitution says. Reality says different.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    It may be practical for use, but Irish is still listed as the national primary language so until that changes Irish should be spoken fluently by all born citizens. I do not know any other nation like this.

    What? :confused:
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    You say that your nation would be fcuked if you did not speak English as your first language. THIS IS THE REASON WHY YOU WILL BECOME PART OF THE UK.

    I simply don't agree with this and there is nothing to suggest that that will happen.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    You just said you would be screwed if you did know English for practicality and business so your reliance on English is overwhelming.

    A reliance on a particular language is not the as a reliance on a particular country.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    Plus, that logic does not work because then you are saying that pretty much every other nation who does not have English as their primary language is fcuked.

    No, I'm not.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    So you are basically saying that all off Europe is fcuked because English is not their first language.

    No, I'm not.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    But yet most Europeans countries have a very high standard of living. And that all nations with English as their first language are not fcuked.

    I didn't say that they were.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    I am not saying it is practical at the moment. What I am saying is that it could be reintroduced as the primary language and there would be no effect on your standard of living. If everyone knew Irish and English then they could use Irish in Ireland and English abroad. Like most other nations, it is this simple.

    I don't know what this is in response to. You need to break out the sections of longer posts, so people understand which paragraph you are addressing.
    epluribusunum wrote: »
    Do you know while colonizers throughout history removed religion and language from the domestic people when they came? Because those are those 2 things that people connect with in their respective lands. This is proven through social sciences. This is why South America speaks mostly Spanish and is Catholic because of the Spanish, and Australia, New Zealand, USA, Belize, etc. speak English. Brazil speaks Portuguese and is Catholic because of Portugal, and the list goes on and on. They did this because once you take someones language away they lose a major part of their identity. It may not seem important because you grew up with English as your first language, but over time Irish will die throughout the nation. We both know this. This is another reason why I think going to part of the UK is inevitable, it may not be for a long time but I think it will happen I know it sounds crazy today though.

    I'm well aware of what colonizers do to countries.

    But as far as Irish is concerned, it matters not a jot if the language remains as it is to me. I certainly think that it should be an option for people to learn and not forced down their throats and if it was optional, there might be more people taking it up.

    As it stands, there is no practical use for it, neither at home and especially not abroad. English serves us MUCH better as a language. One simply cannot get away from that.

    I still don't agree that Ireland will become part of the UK and I'll reiterate that you will have a very hard time find any Irish people that will agree with such an assertion.


  • Advertisement
  • #972
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    BognarRegis wrote: »
    I said no such thing.

    You did, infact you spelled out, in writing, in clear plain English, for all to see on this website.

    -'There can only be one common language.'
    -'There can be many languages spoken here, as we do have at present, but only one common language.'

    The question is do you make a habbit of telling obvious lies?


    I have tried to explain that multiple languages complicate human interaction and create practical difficulties. Why create a problem where none presently exists?


    You have not tried to explain anything. You stated that it complicates human interaction, and then you siad this 'That's a bit like saying we can have driving on the left and the right at the same time.' Which to be honnest is simply nonsense.
    You have not outlined what problem would be created.

    I doubt any problem would actually be created that could not easily be overcome. Ireland and the anglosphere is somewhat unusual in that most people only have one language, the majority of humanity is infact bilingual and getting on just fine with their ability to communicate, only being able to speak one language is odd. Given that so many people manage it just fine, it seems that it is far from impractical.

    Then there is the well proven benefit to a childs development of having more than one language.

    You have yet to actualy outline any 'practical dificulties' whereas I can show clear benefits.
    What error? There is no error. They have plainly stated that they want to reinstate Irish as the common language of Ireland. You and I might find the idea absurd but this is what thay have declared to be their main aim. It is spelled out, in writing, in clear plain English, for all to see on their website.

    There is no mistake.


    Again, its one thing to not update your missionstatement for 120 years, quite another to not update how an organisation actually opperates. Have they worked against Ireland being a bilingual country. If they have not then the claim that they are against it is a fairly empty one to me.


  • #973
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    epluribusunum wrote: »
    Well then I guess your country should alter your Constitution to saying English is your national primary language. Just because it is convenient for you. It may be practical for use, but Irish is still listed as the national primary language so until that changes Irish should be spoken fluently by all born citizens. I do not know any other nation like this.
    So because it is written it must be done? That makes no sense. The fact is on the ground English is the national primary language. Even with fluent from birth Irish speakers know and speak english with equal fluency. The constitution may say one thing, but the reality is very different. There's a load of crap about god in the same constitution, does this mean we're all still catholics, or does it make an atheist somehow less Irish? Hardly.
    James Joyce was mentioned earlier and he is one of the greatest writers of all time, I would wager that he could learn multiple languages at ease.
    He actually gave it a try, but gave up because he didn't like the political overtones of the time that lay behind it.
    You say that your nation would be fcuked if you did not speak English as your first language. THIS IS THE REASON WHY YOU WILL BECOME PART OF THE UK. You are too dependent on their culture. If it benefits America and the UK (strong allies), and Ireland is in a hole one day the agreement will happen it is inevitable.
    It's anything but inevitable, indeed within the UK there has long been a move of devolution from London in both Wales and Scotland. It's more likely the UK ends up as a looser commonwealth than Ireland joining in. While both Scotland and Wales have been had a long and bad history with the english ruling classes, Ireland has always been the odd one out in these islands.
    Language and religion my friend, you did a great job of keeping religion but the language has all but left.
    Yea keeping our local form of catholicism was really good for this nation. Not. If back in the day the majority of us thought "fcuk that gobshíte in Rome, let's join the church of Ireland" I'd put good money we'd have had a more prosperous nation much earlier. While Christianity transformed this nation for the good in the early medieval period, it turned out to be one of the worst influences in our history and really fcuked us up since the foundation of the state, when the Irish taliban under direct orders from Rome influenced politics and law to a shameful degree. Thank christ(no pun) their particular brand of utter bullshít is dying out and I await the day when we bury it for good.

    And the language is not all but gone either. Oh it's contracted massively since the 17th century and continued to contract throughout the 20th, however it's reached a certain level of stability in the number of fluent daily speakers in the last 20 odd years. Do I think it'll grow? No, or at least not by much in practical terms, but equally I don't think it will die out anytime soon either. It's been saved at the last minute IMHO.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #974
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Tony EH wrote: »
    "Linguistically retarded" are your words, not mine.

    I have simply pointed out that in the past we haven't been that great at picking up a second language, as evidenced by our years of failure at trying to get people to learn Irish (even with all of the "importance" that was placed on it)...or any other language for that matter.

    I don't why for sure why that it is, I just see that it is.
    I suppose the obvious answer that has been explained to you numerous times is just beyond your understanding.

    Hint: (now read this carefully) Other English speaking countries have the same issue and English is the most widely spoken second language on the planet and the main language of international business.
    If you can't work it out from that......well there isn't much more to be said.
    Do you really think this this type of shit is aiding the discussion? :rolleyes:
    Yep, it shows how ridiculous your constantly ignoring the above point about English speakers worldwide not having a great desire to learn other languages is.
    Tony EH wrote: »
    I don't why for sure why that it is, I just see that it is.

    ..and again...you have an interest in the language. That gives you a particular bent towards it.
    I can't resist this.
    You claim I can learn Irish because I have an interest in learning it, yet you can't extrapolate from your own claim why people don't learn it.

    Hilarious. :D


  • #975
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Rubeter wrote: »
    I suppose the obvious answer that has been explained to you numerous times is just beyond your understanding.

    Hint: (now read this carefully) Other English speaking countries have the same issue and English is the most widely spoken second language on the planet and the main language of international business.
    If you can't work it out from that......well there isn't much more to be said.

    Yep, it shows how ridiculous your constantly ignoring the above point about English speakers worldwide not having a great desire to learn other languages is.


    I can't resist this.
    You claim I can learn Irish because I have an interest in learning it, yet you can't extrapolate from your own claim why people don't learn it.

    Hilarious. :D

    Sorry lad, i've no time for ****. I saw the end remark of this current bit of web spittle and it's the last straw.

    Your posts have a terrible tone in them and tbh, I'm just not bothered anymore.


  • #976
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Sorry lad, i've no time for ****. I saw the end remark of this current bit of web spittle and it's the last straw.

    Your posts have a terrible tone in them and tbh, I'm just not bothered anymore.
    WIN!!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdCrZfTkG1c


  • #977
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You've "won" nothing, but such a remark is indicative of your mindset.

    I still don't agree with you, but unlike An Colean and others, you cannot debate the topic without being a jerk.

    I have no interest in that whatsoever.


  • #978
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Tony EH wrote: »
    You've "won" nothing, but such a remark is indicative of your mindset.

    I still don't agree with you, but unlike An Colean and others, you cannot debate the topic without being a jerk.

    I have no interest in that whatsoever.
    WIN WIN!!!!
    I love winning!!!! :D:D:D


  • #979
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    Conway635 wrote: »
    Let me tell you about how I was taught Irish.

    One teacher, a very elderly priest, used every class to lecture us on 800 years of British opression, including giving us details of how (he said) British soilders would disembowel pregnant irish girls and force them to eat their babies before leaving them to bleed to death.

    This was every class. We would get about 5 minutes of teaching before something would start him off on the evils of the British.

    C635

    I would love to see this man in action...what a true patriot :D


  • #980
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Here's your award Rubeter...

    :pac:

    Award


  • #981
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Here's your award...

    :pac:

    Award
    Ha ha you won't get to me because I have a WIN!!!!!!:D:D:D:D

    I'm smiling, are you? :D:D:D:D

    I'm off to walk my dogs now and bask in my WIN!!!! and the adulation of the screaming hoards of my admiring fans. :D:D:D:D

    Slán....


  • Advertisement
  • #982
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    What is it you think you've "won"?

    :pac:


  • #983
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Tony EH wrote: »
    What is it you think you've "won"?

    :pac:
    The debate with you.
    If you want to continue the discussion I will be happy to accommodate you, all you have to do is reply to this post.

    If you would rather bow out then I WINN!!!!:D:D:D


  • #984
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,973 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    But you haven't won the debate. It's still ongoing...

    You've only won a clownsuit.


  • #985
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Tony EH wrote: »
    But you haven't won the debate. It's still ongoing...

    You've only won a clownsuit.
    If you won't reply to the post. Linky

    :D:D:D:D:D

    All you have to do is reply to the post and show that the reason Irish people aren't good at getting down and learning other languages has nothing to with their speaking English. Go on, for the laugh try it.


  • #986
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    You know what they say about internet arguments and the special olympics..


  • #987
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You know what they say about internet arguments and the special olympics..
    Then why do you do it?


  • #988
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    Then why do you do it?
    Because I'm special ok!!!!! :mad:


  • #989
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Because I'm special ok!!!!! :mad:
    That's fair.


  • #990
    BognarRegis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭BognarRegis


    An Coilean wrote: »
    You have not outlined what problem would be created.
    I thought it would be obvious that we if do not have one common language there will be problems with people not being able to talk to each other and additional costs such as signs and services in more than one language. It's not a situation one would deliberately set out to create if the existing situation is that there is just one common language.
    An Coilean wrote: »
    Again, its one thing to not update your mission statement for 120 years,
    They did: in 2008.

    This from Gaelport:
    New Era for Conradh na Gaeilge
    An unprecedented majority accepted the new constitution which rings in a new era for Conradh na Gaeilge at a special Ard-Fheis which was held in Dublin last Saturday 12 April 2008.
    Both young and old gathered from branches of Conradh na Gaeilge from all over the country in Wynns Hotel, Abbey Street to cast their vote on one of the most radical motions ever put to members to change the document which lays down the aims of the organisation and which was accepted by an overwhelming majority following a lively debate from the floor.

    Daithí Mac Cárthaigh, President of Conradh na Gaeilge stated:
 ” Not only is the status of Irish language, the central basis of our organisation, reaffirmed by this new constitution but its new wording welcomes Irish speakers from every culture and tradition to take a part in the Conradh, both single members and members of various branches and despite which political outlook which they have and this is a greatly pleases me.

    So, they updated their mission statement in 2008 and their main aim is boldly stated on their web site.

    I think it a reasonable conclusion that if they say something is their main aim, then anything they do is directed at accomplishing exactly that.


  • Advertisement
  • #991
    epluribusunum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭epluribusunum


    Rubeter's post #974 really does say it all. There is not an argument to be made against it. When someone fails to address a point, but continues to post back and clearly avoids it you can guarantee their argument has been defeated.

    How can one nationality be inferior at learning an additional language? Makes no sense and the fact that someone would contribute that as a reason belittles their entire argument.

    Are other countries with English as their second language able to communicate and do business dealings? Of course. Last time I checked Italy was not a 3rd world country. There is no reason to believe it would affect Ireland's English skills, nor would it affect their business capabilities.

    The only true arguments these people are making is 1) that it is not currently practical for their life, or 2) that they did not enjoy learning it in school and did not find it interesting.

    My answer to this would be:
    1) It does not have to be this way, it could be practical in the future if your nation decided to pursue it. You could speak Irish at home, and English abroad- like most nations.

    2) Well, if you adjusted the schooling system and learning programs as suggested in #1, then eventually there would be a generation where all the adults spoke it. When this occurs children would not find it hard or uninteresting in school because they would already be exposed to it before school. They probably found it hard or uninteresting because they were not exposed to it at home. Any scholastic subject, especially languages, that you learn for the first time is hard or uninteresting, but if you grow up learning it as a child it would make it easy as a student. But if your parents know it then it is all too simple.


Advertisement
Advertisement