Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

listermint · 06-08-2013 04:12PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Nothing on twitter from dublin bus yet

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-strike-ends-from-tomorrow-1024949-Aug2013/

Foxtrol · 06-08-2013 04:18PM

Would have hoped they’d stand up to the unions and let them rot on the picket lines.

Have a feeling this is going to be just a face saving exercise by the unions though as they haven’t bent at all in the negotiations so far and the savings will have to be found from somewhere. Think the drivers will be much more willing to accept any agreement now given the lack of support they’ve received.

Megatron!! · 06-08-2013 04:20PM

Bambi wrote: »

Like I said, we can all come up with bull**** tales that someone told us. Don't change the fact that it's guff unless you're backing it up. Whihc you didnt

I work in IT, private sector. Didn't make silly chippy levels of money in the boom but I'm still in a job and I wouldn't be blaming other working people for my misfortune if I wasn't.

Im not blaming anyone. recessions happen regularly throughout history. I was earning below 36k during the boom. this was worked hard for and not ridiculous at all. up at 5.30 every morning and home at 6.30. These guys should take the hit and move on. Private sector should have to take the same % cuts as public. no more no less

Dyr · 06-08-2013 04:23PM

Megatron!! wrote: »

Im not blaming anyone. recessions happen regularly throughout history. I was earning below 36k during the boom. this was worked hard for and not ridiculous at all. up at 5.30 every morning and home at 6.30. These guys should take the hit and move on. Private sector should have to take the same % cuts as public. no more no less

How many times does it have to be said in this thread that dublin bus arent public sector? Seriously, stop posting until you've got the basic facts rights

Its not a recession though, the country has been bankrupted. Oddly enough by the industry you worked in. :eek:

Megatron!! · 06-08-2013 04:24PM

Bambi wrote: »

How many times does it have to be said in this thread that dublin bus arent public sector? Seriously, stop posting until you've got the basic facts rights

Its not a recession though, the country has been bankrupted. Oddly enough by the industry you worked in. :eek:

Yes it was my fault;) semi public/public the point is they should take the hit

OldNotWIse · 06-08-2013 04:25PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Na they have to pay on there (well supposed to:D) they get buses for free.

Really? I always thought the bye laws stipulated that ticket inspectors are obliged to walk past and ignore junkies, while checking that all the commuter mugs have tickets. At least...thats what one would assume from experiencing luas travel

I've never seen one asked for a ticket in my life...

OldNotWIse · 06-08-2013 04:29PM

Whats with this rubbish about "they wouldnt have worked for it during the boom" line?? I worked for 24k during the "boom", and was damn glad to be getting it. Honestly you'd swear we were all running around on six figure salaries before the recession. There are plenty of people who would be glad of these jobs now, as they would have been then.

Valetta · 06-08-2013 04:30PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would have hoped they’d stand up to the unions and let them rot on the picket lines.

Have a feeling this is going to be just a face saving exercise by the unions though as they haven’t bent at all in the negotiations so far and the savings will have to be found from somewhere. Think the drivers will be much more willing to accept any agreement now given the lack of support wages they’ve received.

FYP

bumper234 · 06-08-2013 04:30PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Really? I always thought the bye laws stipulated that ticket inspectors are obliged to walk past and ignore junkies, while checking that all the commuter mugs have tickets. At least...thats what one would assume from experiencing luas travel I've never seen one asked for a ticket in my life...

Yeah it's like every one of the skinny toothless smelly ****s are wearing some sort of Harry Potter invisibility cloak or something because have actually seen the inspectors avoid contact with a scrote yet no problem asking a pregnant woman 3 seats down for her ticket.

Sunnyisland · 06-08-2013 04:37PM

Latest news is that its been called of as I post.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0806/466563-dublin-bus-strike/

17:29 Both sides in the Dublin Bus dispute have agreed to attend talks tomorrow to try resolve the row that has led to a three-day strike.

BigBrownBear · 06-08-2013 04:49PM

My analysis of the situation, having been on both sides of a dispute over the years, is that industrial relations is just a game/power struggle among the Management hierarchy and their Trade Union counterparts.
Neither side wants to 'lose face' or appear weak as they need to justify their own positions and 'power'.
Many times I've heard a Branch Secretary address Trade Union members to say...'My hands are tied'when they couldn't bring favorable outcome to their members
Many times I've heard Managers say 'We've no other option' in relation to cost saving.
Neither really gives a flying **** about their staff or their members.
IMHO its all self interest on both sides and no one will ever admit it.
And yes I know life is all about self preservation

listermint · 06-08-2013 04:53PM

BigBrownBear wrote: »

My analysis of the situation, having been on both sides of a dispute over the years, is that industrial relations is just a game/power struggle among the Management hierarchy and their Trade Union counterparts.
Neither side wants to 'lose face' or appear weak as they need to justify their own positions and 'power'.
Many times I've heard a Branch Secretary address Trade Union members to say...'My hands are tied'when they couldn't bring favorable outcome to their members
Many times I've heard Managers say 'We've no other option' in relation to cost saving.
Neither really gives a flying **** about their staff or their members.
IMHO its all self interest on both sides and no one will ever admit it.
And yes I know life is all about self preservation

Middlemen madness

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 06-08-2013 04:54PM

cdebru wrote: »

So you have read the labour court recommendation have you ?

Yes though neither the striker nor yourself clearly have.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 06-08-2013 04:58PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

Name one other group capable of affecting political change at their level.

Your caricature of these workers just reflects your own narrow-minded ideology, that (as others say) just tries to foster a public vs private 'divide and conquer' narrative, as well as a 'there is no alternative' narrative that tries to assert austerity on us as the only choice (when it serves to distract us from the solutions we should be seeking at a European level, and that if Europe fails us - as it has for the last half decade - we need to have a hard look at regaining political/economic independence).

We're facing even more widespread destruction of our public services over the next decade, and the workers in these public services are the only remaining front-line who can credibly push back against this ideology-based destruction of our economy - about time too I think, as féck all chance of getting proper protests going in this country.

People need to realize that cuts dig us deeper into crisis, and that the only solution that will get us out of this in the next decade, is a massive (preferably EU-wide) stimulus program which doesn't have to involve ramped-up taxes (which would in fact roll-back taxes as part of the stimulus), as is the usual myth economic conservatives try to assert when discussing this.

Public spending, including that going to these workers, pumps up the private economy (a public sector deficit, is by definition, a private sector surplus) - a private sector currently starved of money - so when you lend support to cutting public sector expenditure, you lend support to deflating the private sector as well.

In a word bull****.

BigBrownBear · 06-08-2013 04:59PM

listermint wrote: »

Middlemen madness

Whats that supposed to mean

UCDVet · 06-08-2013 05:00PM

I really, really, really wish the management would just announce 'Now Hiring drivers and driving instructors'.

If someone is qualified to drive a bus - give them a job. If they perform adequately, permanently fire the highest paid striker.

At the same time, announce that due to a shortage of drivers, Dublin Bus will be remapping the routes. It's not economically feasible and even popular routes aren't profitable. Fewer stops will mean a slightly longer walk and a much faster trip.

Start running the routes that are in demand and profitable.

It wouldn't take very long for the drivers on strike to come running back, at a reduced salary, as they won't find a better deal driving buses anywhere else.

It won't happen though, but I wish it would.

end of the road · 06-08-2013 05:05PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would have hoped they’d stand up to the unions and let them rot on the picket lines.

it was right that they didn't, doing so would mean these boys and girls being unemployed and their children starving, looks like the strike is off now so our boys and girls in dublin bus can return to work and hopefully have meaningful negotiations

Foxtrol wrote: »

Think the drivers will be much more willing to accept any agreement now given the lack of support they’ve received.

they have received a lot of support, not as much as i'd like but still a lot of support, many people do appreciate dublin bus as it gives them a service in their community that they wouldn't be able to get as their route is loss making

KilOit · 06-08-2013 05:10PM

cdebru wrote: »

to soften up the staff to accept the cuts doh....

Well believe this, i work in the HSE and it's happening here

KyussBishop · 06-08-2013 05:27PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

In a word bull****.

So you don't have an argument against any of it, ok.

donegal11 · 06-08-2013 05:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

they have received a lot of support, not as much as i'd like but still a lot of support, many people do appreciate dublin bus as it gives them a service in their community that they wouldn't be able to get as their route is loss making

Your average driver doesn't care were they drive as long as it's lining their pockets, you do know that bus drivers don't get paid on the profitability of there route. By your logic we should be supporting management for deciding to run buses/services in unprofitable areas not the drivers?

Francesco · 06-08-2013 05:55PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I really, really, really wish the management would just announce 'Now Hiring drivers and driving instructors'.

So when the day comes you have to stand up for your pay and conditions, you'll be happy enough if your job is advertised and outsourced to eastern europe ? Because no Irish worker is ever going to compete on price, it's a worker race to the bottom, that fat management laugh at and grow fatter on.

Foxtrol · 06-08-2013 06:09PM

Francesco wrote: »

So when the day comes you have to stand up for your pay and conditions, you'll be happy enough if your job is advertised and outsourced to eastern europe ? Because no Irish worker is ever going to compete on price, it's a worker race to the bottom, that fat management laugh at and grow fatter on.

There's standing up for attacks on your pay and conditions then there is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring:

the fact your company is broke,
you haven’t been touched by cuts during the recession,
the company has given into many of the union demands,
only your massive overtime rates and a few archaic entitlements are being effected,
your core pay isn’t being touched,
the agreement has been approved by the labour court.

This is not a normal strike, it's just yet another sign of how out of touch with reality the Unions, public service and semi-state staff really are.

KyussBishop · 06-08-2013 06:34PM

listermint wrote: »

A couple of weeks ago i would have entirely disagreed with you. But my attitude is changing especially when you see documentaries such as this.

Which highlight how big business is looking the smash collective bargaining so workers are left with nothing. Big business seems to be hiding behind self drafted employment laws that are made at the lobbing request of high profile backers.

I dont think it is a conspiracy theory to suggest that most western governments are now run at the behest of corporate sponsorship. Where naive or not so naive politicians campaigns are sponsored with the cash of a select few self interests.

Id be siding with the drivers here as 'some' unions are the last bastion of people power that we have outside of the devide and conquer that is going on with highly wealth sponsored media campaigns.

Just watched that documentary there - that is actually a really great documentary (will look out for more from the same group, as read they have commissioned 8 or so), which is well worth a look for posters here.

NoNewFriends · 06-08-2013 06:36PM

end of the road wrote: »

their not uneducated, and theirs no fresh blood out there compitent to drive a bus, anyone who is good enough to be a bus driver is all ready employed

Yeah, all those bus drivers have degrees in nuclear physics :rolleyes:
Of course they're uneducated. That's why they're doing a low skilled job like driving a bus.

they wouldn't have jumped at the chance of earning half those wages during the boom though, they would have looked down their nose at a bus driver as it wouldn't be a good enough job for them

Who are you to say what jobs young people will or won't do? Ask anyone under 25 on the dole. I'm sure they'd jump at the chance for €500 a week to drive a bus.

i wouldn't want them driving any bus i use, only the current drivers who have experience will suffice.

Tough. You don't have a choice who your bus driver is. Stop pretending you wouldn't get on a bus until the driver has your seal of approval.

grow up, resolving the dispute is the best way and you know it

Hopefully the dispute is resolved by the drivers accepting the cuts or else the privatisation of bus transport in the capital. This isn't North Korea despite the wishes of our resident bearded wonders.

ted1 · 06-08-2013 06:39PM

Bambi wrote: »

Why did ya not add dell to that list?

Oh yeah

Because I never worked for them, I'm a electronic engineer not a PC salesman

bodice ripper · 06-08-2013 06:40PM

Fire them. Declare bankruptcy and start again.

Francesco · 06-08-2013 06:45PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

There's standing up for attacks on your pay and conditions then there is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring:

[*]the fact your company is broke
Caused by bad management

[*]you haven’t been touched by cuts during the recession,
- Yes they have

[*]the company has given into many of the union demands,
- Management never give into union demands unless they have no case

[*]only your massive overtime rates and a few archaic entitlements are being effected,
- 'Massive' in your jealous head only, while billions are paid to bondholders, corrupt cronies, SCAMA and developers without a word

[*]your core pay isn’t being touched,
- The other rates are part of your overall pay

[*]the agreement has been approved by the labour court.

Dyr · 06-08-2013 06:55PM

ted1 wrote: »

Because I never worked for them, I'm a electronic engineer not a PC salesman

I never knew Dell only employed salesmen.

I do know how IBM treat some of their staff though.

Frank Black · 06-08-2013 06:56PM

Had to go past the picket on Ringsend Road on the way home. One car (out of 50 or so) beeped his horn in support while I was there, and he was a taxi driver who's probably picking up extra custom.
It's gratifying to see the lack of support they got today from members of the public who live in the real world.
Not surprised strike has been suspended.
Expect a token bone to be tossed to the drivers and an acceptance of the current deal on offer.

Foxtrol · 06-08-2013 07:00PM

Francesco wrote: »

[*]the fact your company is broke
Caused by bad management
Agreed, what were they thinking paying a person who passed a driving test that sort of salary and conditions.

[*]you haven’t been touched by cuts during the recession,
- Yes they have
I’m sorry, in the real world losing some overtime hours is not a legitimate cut.

[*]the company has given into many of the union demands,
- Management never give into union demands unless they have no case
Management went along with what the labour court said, pity the unions/drivers didn’t have as much respect for the process.

[*]only your massive overtime rates and a few archaic entitlements are being effected,
- 'Massive' in your jealous head only, while billions are paid to bondholders, corrupt cronies, SCAMA and developers without a word
I’m sorry if you’re deluded but in this day and age a company with a 7 day a week timetable running nearly all year a 3 times rate of overtime on holidays, 2.5 on Sundays and 1.5 for extra hours is massive. Don’t forget the 15 minutes ‘travel allowance’, no-crash bonus, and not calling in sick 8 times a week bonus the unions/drivers are trying to maintain. All that other waffle is just trying to muddy the waters

[*]your core pay isn’t being touched,
- The other rates are part of your overall pay
Count your lucky stars your core pay isn’t being touched seeing as nearly the entire country’s populations has, right up to 100% for some.

[*]the agreement has been approved by the labour court.

Your responses aren't helping the out of touch perception.

Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

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