Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

fl4pj4ck · 05-08-2013 08:57PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

...whereas you're happy to have their wages cut and expect them to take it so you aren't inconvenienced. Got it.

Their wages are not being cut. They're just greedy feckers that rely on the overtime, and it has to come to an end due to cost cutting. Why it is so hard to understand?

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 08:58PM

Rightwing wrote: »

There's no point running a service if it's not sustainable. Either slash wages or slash numbers. This isn't being harsh,,,,it's being real.

Come on!!!! We live in a society, we can't just leave people like pensioners and school children out to rot.

Ando's Saggy Bottom · 05-08-2013 08:59PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

mods,is apologies if this already sorted elsewhere, feel free to merge.

just wanted to get peoples opinions on the current strike which really threatens to cause havoc for people trying to go about their business in Dublin.

who do you think is to blame here - the workers or the company? personally, ive lost all support for the drivers, they can go and do one as far as i am concerned, their pay levels are up their with the best in Europe for the job, yet they are still not happy.

Good to see your poll options are as black and white and extreme as your recent posts in the Utd thread. :pac:

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 09:01PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

The average Dublin Bus driver earns 26,000. They're certainly not overpaid.

So we started at €54,000 dropped to €40,000 and now we are at €26,000. Is there any definitive information out there from this company or are they trying to muddy the waters.

mikemac1 · 05-08-2013 09:01PM

Just 25% rely on the overtime though according to this thread.

Maybe they are young and single and saving for a house deposit as best they can.
Maybe they have families and private schools and creches to pay for.

It doesn't realy matter, overtime is not core pay and can be wiped out instantly by any batch of new hire drivers or can be cut by management.

Not something to strike over. But people match their lifestyle to their income and if you've pulled a few hundred a month in overtime for years and years it will be a cut for you when it's gone.
But it can never be relied on. Unions are fighting the wrong fight.

Guy:Incognito · 05-08-2013 09:07PM

They were talking about it on newstalk earlier. The guest that was in was saying how siptu were out picketing a company last week that wouldnt honour a labour court judgement to pay staff more than statutory redundancy. Now here they are this week getting their memebers to strike and reject a labour court judgement.

Great bunch of lads at the auld hypocracy they are .

end of the road · 05-08-2013 09:08PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

They are trying to hold the city to ransom with the strike.

wrong, their are options to get round the city if you need to, in dublin your not stuck

Guy:Incognito · 05-08-2013 09:12PM

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

So we started at €54,000 dropped to €40,000 and now we are at €26,000. Is there any definitive information out there from this company or are they trying to muddy the waters.

The woman from dublin bus on the radio lasr week said they were on 36k before overtime.

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 09:14PM

end of the road wrote: »

which can't be allowed to happen at all costs as it would mean less or no service on some routes, higher fairs, higher subsidies, and more. dublin bus is the best were going to get and while it has problems, to privatise/de-regulate the bus market would be bad for many routes in this country as no privates are going to take on the vital PSO routes as they won't make any money, scrapping these routes is also not an option.

This must happen. If it doesn't work there is nothing to stop them from picking up the slack. But privatisation must now be given its chance

ixoy · 05-08-2013 09:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, their are options to get round the city if you need to, in dublin your not stuck

What would they be if you're not near a DART or LUAS line then? Not everyone has a car (or two cars if both in a couple are working) and not everyone is near somebody from their work place to commute with. What are these options then?

A taxi would mean people spending potentially hundreds of euro and, given we're hearing about how the economy is crippled, you wouldn't reasonably expect people to do that. That's if they could even get a taxi tomorrow.

mikemac1 · 05-08-2013 09:27PM

ixoy wrote: »

That's if they could even get a taxi tomorrow.

Taximen know the rush up to 9am is the one daily opportunity they get each working day.

They will be out and about. Some will be pulling 14 hour shifts but they will be around. The radio said 400,000 use DB on a working day so it's a golden time for taximen

Book a taxi at 8:30 and you'll be struggling but try 8:15 and you'll get one easily

end of the road · 05-08-2013 09:30PM

ixoy wrote: »

What would they be if you're not near a DART or LUAS line then? Not everyone has a car (or two cars if both in a couple are working) and not everyone is near somebody from their work place to commute with. What are these options then?

A taxi would mean people spending potentially hundreds of euro and, given we're hearing about how the economy is crippled, you wouldn't reasonably expect people to do that. That's if they could even get a taxi tomorrow.

if they need to get somewhere and if its a long journey then its an option, a bike is also a good option if its a short journey

Jesus Wept · 05-08-2013 09:38PM

In Germany, if the bus drivers strike - they drive the bus but don't accept fares.
Now that makes a lot more ****ing sense doesn't it.

devnull · 05-08-2013 09:47PM

Not in this instance.

The company are losing money, hence the need for cuts. Driving buses around all day using fuel and not taking fares just makes the company lose more money and make more cuts = more money needing to be raised.

Frank Black · 05-08-2013 09:48PM

The harsh economic reality, is that certain routes in the network, could be contracted out to the private sector, and Dublin Bus, in a much smaller, less costly form, could continue providing the same service to non-profitable routes.

People who gain from this - every taxpayer in the country.
People who lose from this - current public bus drivers.

weldoninhio · 05-08-2013 09:49PM

Surely DB can issue a statement saying that anyone who doesn't turn up and complete their work as rostered will face disciplinary action up to and including termination of their contract. Sack them and hire new drivers. There are plenty of people out there looking for work.

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 09:54PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Surely DB can issue a statement saying that anyone who doesn't turn up and complete their work as rostered will face disciplinary action up to and including termination of their contract. Sack them and hire new drivers. There are plenty of people out there looking for work.

And the race to the bottom, the very bottom has started is continuing. It is an official strike and the issues should be debated.

Benji1974 · 05-08-2013 09:58PM

I saw five of the strikers coming out of the Hill 16 pub on Gardiner St. this afternoon, (all wearing their Dublin Bus high vis Dublin Bus jackets) and making their way back towards the Summerhill depot to rejoin the picket.
If you’re go to a pub, especially during a strike, at least remove company clothing with a very visible logo. Only in Ireland would they get away with that.

devnull · 05-08-2013 09:59PM

Benji1974 wrote: »

I saw five of the strikers coming out of the Hill 16 pub on Gardiner St. this afternoon, (all wearing their Dublin Bus high vis Dublin Bus jackets) and making their way back towards the Summerhill depot to rejoin the picket.
If you’re go to a pub, especially during a strike, at least remove company clothing with a very visible logo. Only in Ireland would they get away with that.

Does anyone else find it ironic, if true that staff who claim they cannot afford to live if they take the cuts, still are able to afford to go out to a pub during a strike?

fl4pj4ck · 05-08-2013 10:01PM

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

And the race to the bottom, the very bottom has started is continuing. It is an official strike and the issues should be debated.

Debated? It's the workers that facing a court order decide to go on strike. It's been debaded for last 14 months.

Dyr · 05-08-2013 10:02PM

Benji1974 wrote: »

I saw five of the strikers coming out of the Hill 16 pub on Gardiner St. this afternoon, (all wearing their Dublin Bus high vis Dublin Bus jackets) and making their way back towards the Summerhill depot to rejoin the picket.
If you’re go to a pub, especially during a strike, at least remove company clothing with a very visible logo. Only in Ireland would they get away with that.

I remember when back when a job i was in was outside on strike, we used to run into the pub next door for a slash or to hold impromptu meetings.

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 10:06PM

devnull wrote: »

Does anyone else find it ironic, if true that staff who claim they cannot afford to live if they take the cuts, still are able to afford to go out for a drink during a strike?

Does the pub do food?

suicide_circus · 05-08-2013 10:09PM

damn their eyes, let them be flogged for their insolence !

homerjay2005 · 05-08-2013 10:19PM

Benji1974 wrote: »

If you’re go to a pub, especially during a strike, at least remove company clothing with a very visible logo. Only in Ireland would they get away with that.

you should have taken a photo of them and posted it to some of the papers.

does anybody know if they will get paid for the strike? i hope to god not.

20Cent · 05-08-2013 10:26PM

When a business uses leverage available to its advantage its congratulated and considered good business. When a worker does the exact same thing its terrible socialism or something. :rolleyes:

Fair play to them sticking up for themselves more need to do this.

Warper · 05-08-2013 10:27PM

No cut to their core pay and they still strike. You can be damn sure their average wage is a lot higher than the average industrial wage.

Zero sympathy for them, they should get docked some of their core pay for their lost time.

Stabshauptmann · 05-08-2013 10:28PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here is the financial report for their last figures, total pay related costs are €181million a year - each member of staff costs over €54,000 for the company, which is just astounding for driving buses.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2430/Dublin%20Bus%20AR%202011.pdf

as to how anybody can support them, especially people who need the service, ill never know.
how you going to get to work by the way?

Where did the figure of 54k come from?

Wages and salaries come to approx 46K per employee, and approx 3.5k was paid into the pension scheme but I cant easily put a figure on how much of that actually accrues to current employees. I do note though that the CIE pension scheme is running a 159.2m euro deficit.

The question about the bus strikes for me is a simple series:
Do I agree with the logic of "we didnt cause the increased losses, so we're not suffering pay cuts"? No, I do not. They didn't add the value in the good years... Most of what happens in the economy is beyond the control of worker bees, but it is the circumstances of the prevailing economic condition that dictates wages.

Do I agree that management are over paid and they should be the ones to take pay cuts? Not really. Its leftist populism. There are too few management to make up the savings required, and honestly, I do not think the CEO is over paid. I do not think 188k is excessive for CEO of a large company. Make a contribution, sure, but they did recently take big pay cuts themselves.

Do I think they deserve their current pay levels? TBH, I do not know the details of a dublin bus driver's take home pay. I do know that the average income in Ireland is approx 37k, and average household income is 55k. I do not view bus driving as a difficult or highly skilled job, and if you are correct that they earn 54k per year, I would feel they are over paid. Even at 46k, they are the third highest paid bus drivers in the EU after adjusting for purchasing power parity (source: http://www.publicpolicy.ie/dublin-bus-funding-and-financial-performance/)

So, my considered opinion, while not as strong as the wording of the poll, is that no I do not support the bus drivers.

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 10:29PM

i'd like to them break the unions

charlietheminxx · 05-08-2013 10:30PM

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, their are options to get round the city if you need to, in dublin your not stuck

What about the thousands of people living in places like swords/santry as an example? It costs about 25 euro from swords to town in a taxi.

Still support the strike though.

devnull · 05-08-2013 10:34PM

charlietheminxx wrote: »

What about the thousands of people living in places like swords/santry as an example? It costs about 25 euro from swords to town in a taxi.

Still support the strike though.

Swords has Swords Express. So you're an awful lot better off than people who have no option whatsoever other than Taxi.

Thankfully I car-pool these days since Dublin Bus drove me off their services due to route cuts a couple of years ago.

But if I didn't, I'd be left with the choices of a 5.5km walk to my nearest train station or a taxi that would cost over €30

Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

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