Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

end of the road · 05-08-2013 07:45PM

Sand wrote: »

I disagree with the bolded part. Dublin Bus abuse their monopoly and subsidized status to crush competition.

untrue, dublin bus offered better services and the people used them and sadly the private operators either went out of business or stopped running the routes, thats just simply the free market at play

Sand wrote: »

The "no one else would do it" line is a myth they trot out

no it isn't, theirs only a few routes that the private operators could make any money on, the rest would still require subsidy infact more of a subsidy as the private operator would expect a return for operating the service.

Sand wrote: »

They crush anyone else who tries to do it.

no they don't

end of the road · 05-08-2013 07:49PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Fine then allow private companies tender against the CIE monoploly in competition for bundles of routes, and the current subsidies that go with them.
We will end up with a better run, more viable, and more efficent service.

wrong, we'l have to tripple the subsidy to ensure that the private operators make a proffit which their entitled to make, their entitled to make a return on their investment and their not going to want to take on loss making routes at the current subsidy rates which as a for proffit company their right not to do

dar100 · 05-08-2013 07:52PM

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

dickheads in jobs aren't just contained to bus drivers.

i support them. they do a thankless job, majority of them are lovely and have to deal with dickhead cyclists/motorists (actually all road users).

I always thank the driver when getting off the bus:D

devnull · 05-08-2013 07:56PM

end of the road wrote: »

untrue, dublin bus offered better services and the people used them and sadly the private operators either went out of business or stopped running the routes, thats just simply the free market at play

It's not much of a level playing field when a private operator has to go head to head with a public sector company that has funding from the taxpayer, free buses paid for by the taxpayer, and other assets that are paid for by the people of the country.

The private operator, unlike Dublin Bus, has to fund everything themselves and take on all the risk themselves, knowing that if they do struggle in any shape or form, the taxpayer is not going to bail them out, like happens with Dublin Bus, where they will never be allowed to fail.

no it isn't, theirs only a few routes that the private operators could make any money on, the rest would still require subsidy infact more of a subsidy as the private operator would expect a return for operating the service.

So you agree that Dublin Bus is the height of efficiency yes? Since if nobody can do it cheaper than them, it must mean that the company is no waste at all in it, but even the striking drivers, say there is waste, but it's not them, but the management, so whoevers view you subscribe to, at the end of the day either way it means there is money being wasted somewhere.

And with tendering, that is all worked out into the price, but if they can squash out the amount of waste we keep hearing is in Dublin Bus, then they will be able to do it cheaper, and get a small fee, and still end up running the service cheaper than what we currently have.

no they don't

http://www.herald.ie/news/second-firm-makes-court-claims-about-dublin-bus-27879778.html

Quote: "Shortly after the firm began operations it noticed Dublin Bus began running services on a similar route. It complained to the Department of Transport. Documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show Dublin Bus was running unauthorised services along the route."

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, we'l have to tripple the subsidy to ensure that the private operators make a proffit which their entitled to make

No, because the tender tells them what the criteria will be for tendering for the service, and if they don't like it or comply with it then they do not win the tender.

PizzamanIRL · 05-08-2013 07:58PM

I support them. It's about time someone did something like this instead of moaning while still bending over backwards for the government.

hmmm · 05-08-2013 07:59PM

They can strike all they want when we have competition on bus routes.

Dapics · 05-08-2013 07:59PM

And I suppose they would rather an increase in taxes instead?

Cuts have to be made. Enough is enough.

(Though a 'friend of mine' would rather see the fat-cats running Dublin Bus and other semi-state companies get a massive reduction in their wages than the common public sector worker, in this case bus drivers.)

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 08:01PM

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, we'l have to tripple the subsidy to ensure that the private operators make a proffit which their entitled to make, their entitled to make a return on their investment and their not going to want to take on loss making routes at the current subsidy rates which as a for proffit company their right not to do

Thats Bolloxology with a capital B, and there are no figures to back it up.
Its just more of the same from the parasitic semi-state monopolies.

Captain Chaos · 05-08-2013 08:02PM

Dapics wrote: »

And I suppose they would rather an increase in taxes instead?

Cuts have to be made. Enough is enough.

The low and middle classes have had the highest percentage of cuts though while those at the top have lost very little that it would not even effect their day to day lives. It's the wrong people being targeted for the cuts, the ones at the top can afford to to lose more than those already on the bread line and still survive.

devnull · 05-08-2013 08:03PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The low and middle classes have had the highest percentage of cuts though while those at the top have lost very little that it would not even effect their day to day lives. It's the wrong people being targeted for the cuts, the ones at the top can afford to be left with less than those already on the bread line.

I agree - and I've always said that management in the company should face more of the cuts than the front line workers. But at the same time the front line workers cannot expect to not have any cuts at all.

knickerbocker · 05-08-2013 08:04PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The low and middle classes have had the highest percentage of cuts though while those at the top have lost very little that it would not even effect their day to day lives. It's the wrong people being targeted for the cuts, the ones at the top can afford to to lose more than those already on the bread line and still survive.

The cuts are to premium and overtime pay, not to core salaries. There is no entitlement here.

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 08:12PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here is the financial report for their last figures, total pay related costs are €181million a year - each member of staff costs over €54,000 for the company, which is just astounding for driving buses.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2430/Dublin%20Bus%20AR%202011.pdf

as to how anybody can support them, especially people who need the service, ill never know.
how you going to get to work by the way?

It's interesting that out of 10 of the Board of Directors only 4 of them had experience in travel before they came on board.

2 of those are union men who worked on the buses, Tom Arnold (I'm being generous) being the MD of Opel being another and probably the most qualified IMHO being Una McGrath. The rest seem to be ex-TD's.

My question is - first of all are all semi-state companies this badly represented at executive level and secondly how does this correspond in comparison to the private sector.

For me the workers deserve better then to have this board managing them.

I could be wrong but I'd think that a board of Directors for most companies would employ the people mostly from the nature of their business.

JupiterKid · 05-08-2013 08:14PM

No, I do not. Overpaid and cosseted and despite promises from successive Governments, public transportation in Ireland has not had the reforms it is crying out for to serve the public better.

They are trying to hold the city to ransom with the strike. Thank God the LUAS is still running.

Teyla Emmagan · 05-08-2013 08:16PM

Apparently only 25% of them only ever do the overtime that would incur the payments they are trying to cut back on. And, according to the radio today, it's the first cut DB staff have ever faced (bar the usual hikes in tax that the rest of us have to put up with).

Anyway, I don't support them, they should have taken the Labour Court recommendation.

B.A._Baracus · 05-08-2013 08:17PM

Was talking to my dad earlier about the bus strike. He told me before that in 1980's there was a 10 week Dublin Bus strike on. But only learned today that the Army were eventually called in to truck people around :pac:

Crazy. Like you would see an Army truck with "tallaght" written on it and people would hop in and be brought back to Tallaght.

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 08:20PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Was talking to my dad earlier about the bus strike. He told me before that in 1980's there was a 10 week Dublin Bus strike on. But only learned today that the Army were eventually called in to truck people around :pac:

Crazy. Like you would see an Army truck with "tallaght" written on it and people would hop in and be brought back to Tallaght.

The army don't seem to do much anyway,,,,,so it's an idea :pac:

mikemac1 · 05-08-2013 08:21PM

It's true BA

The defence forces also managed rubbish collections when the corpo workers had a dispute

devnull · 05-08-2013 08:23PM

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

It's interesting that out of 10 of the Board of Directors only 4 of them had experience in travel before they came on board.

2 of those are union men who worked on the buses, Tom Arnold (I'm being generous) being the MD of Opel being another and probably the most qualified IMHO being Una McGrath. The rest seem to be ex-TD's.

My question is - first of all are all semi-state companies this badly represented at executive level and secondly how does this correspond in comparison to the private sector.

For me the workers deserve better then to have this board managing them.

I could be wrong but I'd think that a board of Directors for most companies would employ the people mostly from the nature of their business.

But this is the case in a lot of public sector companies, there are career public sector workers, who have no background in any of the industries that they have worked in, just have worked for a number of parts of the public sector. This should not surprise you and is not a problem that is just in Ireland, this happens in other countries public sectors as well.

In the private sector it would be very different, people at a junior level may come in to a company and work their way up with no experience to start with, but you'll always find board members ho have some experience related to the areas that they are dealing with.

As for the TD's, well I quickly looked them up and they were former Fianna Fail members. Why does that not surprise me?

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 08:25PM

Almaviva wrote: »

There is no such thing as a legitimate strike in Ireland these days.
The era of exploitation of poorly educated workers unprotected from abuses of contracts, working conditions, and health and safety is long gone.

Any strike will only be by those who have either lost touch with reality and are living in the past, or those who havent but are happy to armwrestle the best deal they can whether it is a fair deal or not.

Hang in there Dublin Bus and Leo. Just let them out there for however long it takes them to come to their sense and come back to work for the labour court recommendation as it is. They will still be on a deal that is too good for what they do.

Jobsbridge

Astala · 05-08-2013 08:25PM

Rightwing wrote: »

The army don't seem to do much anyway,,,,,so it's an idea :pac:

They do a hell of a lot more than ignorant, disrespectful people, like you, think.

Jarrod · 05-08-2013 08:26PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

For these quotes I would like to marry ye and have your babies.

I'll consider if you could give me a lift to work tomorrow

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 08:28PM

Astala wrote: »

They do a hell of a lot more than ignorant, disrespectful people, like you, think.

Like what....clean their boots ? :rolleyes:

The Narrator · 05-08-2013 08:30PM

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

Jobsbridge

In fairness though, they did say poorly educated.

People that are on Jobbridge are generally quite well educated, with that being taken advantage of.

WhatNowForUs? · 05-08-2013 08:34PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

CIE are not a "public service" they are a commercial semi-state company, same ESB,Bord Gais, etc.
The key word is commercial!

They haven't a clue what they are

foxy06 · 05-08-2013 08:39PM

cisk wrote: »

So can we use the bus lanes tomorrow?

According to RTE News no we cant! Like wtf?

Shamrock231 · 05-08-2013 08:42PM

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this, I'm probably against it, but it depends on what percentage of their total pay is made up by overtime.

I have friends where overtime makes up about 45% of their take home pay, so if you said to them that they'd keep their basic wage but their overtime would be cut, that'd be a very painful cut for them, so I'd like to know the % before I pick my side, but I think I'm against the action unless it makes a large part of their take home pay.

The one funny thing that people keep saying in this thread though that has to make you laugh, is the constant insistence that "If they don't like the job then they can just leave, no one's forcing them to work there." - Isn't that exactly what they've done, they don't like it, so they've left/stopped working. I just think it's hilarious that people keep saying this and not realising that that's exactly what they've done.

Frank Black · 05-08-2013 08:42PM

I don't support their actions.
Other than the fact, that the strike action seriously inconveniences large numbers of the travelling public and damages the economy .
i don't think workers in an equivalent private sector company would undertake such actions over these cuts, especially given the financial position of the company.
I've had personal experience of working for a company for over a decade which eventually went into liquidation. The wind-down took around 18months, during which period large scale redundancies and huge cuts to salary became a regular feature of life, as the company drastically tried to slash costs.
We never would have considered striking. no one even mentioned it, you knew it would only make things worse.

0ph0rce0 · 05-08-2013 08:46PM

So whos not going to work tomorrow

Ahhhhhh i love a good bus strike.

KwackerJack · 05-08-2013 08:50PM

Why do people always strike during hard time when they have secure well paid jobs!!

My fiancée sons father drives for Dublin bus and is in no way short worth of a few pound, 2/3 holidays, big cars and a big house in south bound!

Never heard him moan about wages especially his bonus at xmas.

My Cousin drives to and again is pretty comfortable

Its just greed but its always the ones with money that want more and more

Foxtrol · 05-08-2013 08:55PM

People defending the drivers so you actually justify drivers being paid 3 days pay for working a bank holiday or 2.5 days pay for working a Sunday? I wont even mention the bonus they get for not calling in sick for more than 8 days a year. It’s madness this has been let go on for so long and they should count their blessings it was allowed.

If I or many others were offered the recommendation they turned down of 2.25 days for bank holidays or 2 days for a Sunday we’d take their hands off. The more attention this strike gets the more the Unions/Drivers are going to seem like fools.

Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

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