Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:50PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Instead of closing them down, why not just privatise them?

Aer Lingus v Ryanair is the classic example.

You are a right wing economic fundamentalist.

A large portion of every countries economy by necessity must be subsidized whether by direct injects of government or tax breaks.

Most cities that have public transport system have to subsidize it because it is not profitable and never will be.

The economy of Dublin city benefits from Dublin Bus because they allow people who cannot afford to run a car to get from A to B and get to work.

For many families two or more breadwinners use public transport and the kids use public transport to get to school.

On many of these routes there is no profit to be made by a private operator.

Paying bus drivers peanuts as we can see from this strike endangers that service as bus drivers are today and yesterday staying away from work.

Going forward Dublin Bus will find it increasingly harder to recruit bus drivers and bus services will be cut back.

The knock on effect to the Dublin economy will be obvious.

bumper234 · 05-08-2013 06:51PM

previous user wrote: »

It taxi drivers and Bus drivers were Sterilized there would hardly be any racism in Dublin

I know several taxi drivers and even a couple of bus drivers. Surprisingly i have never heard a single racist comment from any of them. Maybe your'e just lucky huh?

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 06:52PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

You are a right wing economic fundamentalist.

A large portion of every countries economy by necessity must be subsidized whether by direct injects of government or tax breaks.

Most cities that have public transport system have to subsidize it because it is not profitable and never will be.

The economy of Dublin city benefits from Dublin Bus because they allow people who cannot afford to run a car to get from A to B and get to work.

For many families two or more breadwinners use public transport and the kids use public transport to get to school.

On many of these routes there is no profit to be made by a private operator.

Paying bus drivers peanuts as we can see from this strike endangers that service as bus drivers are today and yesterday staying away from work.

Going forward Dublin Bus will find it increasingly harder to recruit bus drivers and bus services will be cut back.

The knock on effect to the Dublin economy will be obvious.

They won't.

The Gardaí were on with similar nonsense and I see there's about 27,000 applying to become a Garda.
Management are on the drivers side, no question about that.

devnull · 05-08-2013 06:53PM

If that was the case private companies would have problems staffing their operations, but despite paying less wages, they still manage to operate without staff shortages.

By the way, these bus drivers are not being paid peanuts, their core wage is being untouched.

Foxtrol · 05-08-2013 06:53PM

notharrypotter wrote: »

There are no profitable routes just certain times of the day when many routes actually are profitable.
The city commuter rush is typically 0730 to 0900 and again 1630 1830.

Are you saying the extremely busy routes (along the N11 for exampe) couldn't be ran at an overal daily profit by a private company?

devnull · 05-08-2013 06:54PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Are you saying the extremely busy routes (along the N11 for exampe) couldn't be ran at an overal daily profit by a private company?

If costs are too high nothing will make a profit, since profit is directly linked to cost.

Which comes back to the original point of why costs need to be cut.

Potatoeman · 05-08-2013 06:55PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

It's really depressing how many people in Ireland will say "x profession has decent work conditions and pay, so we should support an attack on that instead of trying to get it ourselves". ****ing begrudgery. The bosses must have such a laugh at us, and I wouldn't blame them.

Does it ever occur to people that saying "if I did that I'd be fired" means that you are in a crap situation, rather than the bus drivers have some incredible privilege? Striking is a well-recognised right the world over and has been proven to work again and again. Stop being so moronic by acting as if it's some outrage because it inconveniences people.

Just because you can't stand up for your rights, don't try and stop others doing the same.

Yeah but people don't want to support something that will result in higher travel costs to them.

Pumpkinseeds · 05-08-2013 06:57PM

No, I don't support them and I think it's disgraceful that they can bring public transport to a halt. They are quite happy to cause major inconvenience to the public to further their own ends. Whenever they're disgruntled with their lot the public suffers for it. The irony is that the more money they cost their employer the more costs the company will have to cut, which will probably result in job losses, of course they'll probably out on strike to protest that as well.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 06:57PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

You are a right wing economic fundamentalist.

A large portion of every countries economy by necessity must be subsidized whether by direct injects of government or tax breaks.

Most cities that have public transport system have to subsidize it because it is not profitable and never will be.

The economy of Dublin city benefits from Dublin Bus because they allow people who cannot afford to run a car to get from A to B and get to work.

For many families two or more breadwinners use public transport and the kids use public transport to get to school.

On many of these routes there is no profit to be made by a private operator.

Paying bus drivers peanuts as we can see from this strike endangers that service as bus drivers are today and yesterday staying away from work.

Going forward Dublin Bus will find it increasingly harder to recruit bus drivers and bus services will be cut back.

The knock on effect to the Dublin economy will be obvious.

Your arguement is flawed on many levels.
First bus drivers are not paid "peanuts" they earn between €40,000 and €50,000 a year.
Secondly we do not need a lazy state owned monopoly to ensure a public transport service, all we need to do is allow private enterprise to be allowed to tender against the lazy state monoply, for bundles of bus routes and the current subsidies that are paid on those routes, those bundles comprising of both profitable and loss making routes.
Your arguement seems to be that we need a lazy government monopoly ripping off both the taxpayer and the passenger or the city will collapse, that is arrant nonsense.

Foxtrol · 05-08-2013 07:04PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

It's really depressing how many people in Ireland will say "x profession has decent work conditions and pay, so we should support an attack on that instead of trying to get it ourselves". ****ing begrudgery. The bosses must have such a laugh at us, and I wouldn't blame them.

Does it ever occur to people that saying "if I did that I'd be fired" means that you are in a crap situation, rather than the bus drivers have some incredible privilege? Striking is a well-recognised right the world over and has been proven to work again and again. Stop being so moronic by acting as if it's some outrage because it inconveniences people.

Just because you can't stand up for your rights, don't try and stop others doing the same.

See the issue in Ireland is that the ‘x profession’ you talk about is generally a public/semi state service where tax payers, such as myself, are funding these conditions that are way above what they’d receive in the private sector and it’s a slap in the face to all of us when those who work in the given profession are so out of touch that they won’t accept reasonable reductions in their conditions when there is simply no more money left to pay them and instead go out of their way to inconvenience us.

KingOfFairview · 05-08-2013 07:05PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

They are quite happy to cause major inconvenience to the public to further their own ends.

...whereas you're happy to have their wages cut and expect them to take it so you aren't inconvenienced. Got it.

KingOfFairview · 05-08-2013 07:07PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

See the issue in Ireland is that the ‘x profession’ you talk about is generally a public/semi state service where tax payers, such as myself, are funding these conditions that are way above what they’d receive in the private sector and it’s a slap in the face to all of us when those who work in the given profession are so out of touch that they won’t accept reasonable reductions in their conditions when there is simply no more money left to pay them and instead go out of their way to inconvenience us.

Bus drivers are tax payers. Just because you got hit (probably not in a union), don't expect everyone else to take it lying down. If you think this is about drivers going out of their way to inconvenience you, you have a vastly overblown idea of how much you matter.

Pumpkinseeds · 05-08-2013 07:09PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

...whereas you're happy to have their wages cut and expect them to take it so you aren't inconvenienced. Got it.

A lot of people are having their wages cut and having to get on with it. If they aren't happy they can leave, just the same as anyone else who is unhappy with their working conditions. The difference is that other working people can't bring transport to a halt in an attempt to get what they want. It's ridiculous that transport can be stopped by a strike and it should be outlawed.

NegativeCreep · 05-08-2013 07:10PM

As long as their up and running on the 17th of August so I can get to Eminem in Slane, I don't really care what they do.
I feel sorry for people who have to rely on the bus every day. This must be extremely distressing. There must be another way to get their point across.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 07:12PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

...whereas you're happy to have their wages cut and expect them to take it so you aren't inconvenienced. Got it.

They are over-paid employess of a public parasite, ehich gorges itself fat on the taxpayers blood.
And just like the dinosaur these public parasites will eventually thankfully become extinct.

devnull · 05-08-2013 07:15PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Bus drivers are tax payers. Just because you got hit (probably not in a union), don't expect everyone else to take it lying down. If you think this is about drivers going out of their way to inconvenience you, you have a vastly overblown idea of how much you matter.

Well, it's a public company that is supposed to be being run for the benefit of the public, that is why it is a public service company. The whole idea is to serve the public and little else, if you work in the public sector and think the public are not important, then the public sector is the wrong job for you.

Any public company should be run in the cheapest and most efficient way possible whilst providing an acceptable standard of service, for the benefit of the public, not for the workers, unions or management like is clearly happening in Dublin Bus. The Public should come first, and if you don't like the fact that the public are more important than you, you're in the wrong job.

The whole point in a publicly owned transport company is so it's ran on behalf of the public, although it's clear that some people in the public sector believe actually it's run to give them a job and their benefit.

previous user · 05-08-2013 07:16PM

bumper234 wrote: »

I know several taxi drivers and even a couple of bus drivers. Surprisingly i have never heard a single racist comment from any of them. Maybe your'e just lucky huh?

guess so

Grayson · 05-08-2013 07:17PM

devnull wrote: »

Well, it's a public company that is supposed to be being run for the benefit of the public, that is why it is a public service company. The whole idea is to serve the public and little else, if you work in the public sector and think the public are not important, then the public sector is the wrong job for you.

Any public company should be run in the cheapest and most efficient way possible whilst providing an acceptable standard of service, for the benefit of the public, not for the workers, unions or management like is clearly happening in Dublin Bus. The Public should come first, and if you don't like the fact that the public are more important than you, you're in the wrong job.

The whole point in a publicly owned transport company is so it's ran on behalf of the public, although it's clear that some people in the public sector believe actually it's run to give them a job and their benefit.

Best point so far.

Foxtrol · 05-08-2013 07:18PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Bus drivers are tax payers. Just because you got hit (probably not in a union), don't expect everyone else to take it lying down. If you think this is about drivers going out of their way to inconvenience you, you have a vastly overblown idea of how much you matter.

Never said they weren't tax payers and when they start paying money into subsidising the pay I get from work then they can be free to have a say on my terms and conditions, just like I have on theirs.

They can take it whatever way they want but they leave themselves open to being call ‘out of touch’, ‘greedy’ etc by going on strike when the company they work for is broke and they’re only being asked to make small enough sacrifices.

Yeah their customers don’t matter to them – says everything you need to know about Dublin Bus staff!

Grayson · 05-08-2013 07:20PM

I wonder how much it costs the average commuter when they go on strike. Not even the cost to companies, but the dublin bus customers themselves.

homerjay2005 · 05-08-2013 07:21PM

devnull wrote: »

Well, it's a public company that is supposed to be being run for the benefit of the public, that is why it is a public service company. The whole idea is to serve the public and little else, if you work in the public sector and think the public are not important, then the public sector is the wrong job for you.

Any public company should be run in the cheapest and most efficient way possible whilst providing an acceptable standard of service, for the benefit of the public, not for the workers, unions or management like is clearly happening in Dublin Bus. The Public should come first, and if you don't like the fact that the public are more important than you, you're in the wrong job.

The whole point in a publicly owned transport company is so it's ran on behalf of the public, although it's clear that some people in the public sector believe actually it's run to give them a job and their benefit.

spot on. the sense of entitlement in the public sector, is just insane. theres 400k+ unemployed people in this country and losts of decent and qualified drivers out there who could do the job just as good as the ones who currently dont appreciate it.

are they getting paid while they strike by the way? if they are it should be stopped, they wont last long without money coming in.

end of the road · 05-08-2013 07:21PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Leo has other options , the most obvious of which is the deregulation of bus routes in this state.

which can't be allowed to happen at all costs as it would mean less or no service on some routes, higher fairs, higher subsidies, and more. dublin bus is the best were going to get and while it has problems, to privatise/de-regulate the bus market would be bad for many routes in this country as no privates are going to take on the vital PSO routes as they won't make any money, scrapping these routes is also not an option.

NegativeCreep · 05-08-2013 07:22PM

Grayson wrote: »

I wonder how much it costs the average commuter when they go on strike. Not even the cost to companies, but the dublin bus customers themselves.

Well if I were using a taxi every day, to and from work, It'd cost 220 just in taxi's going in and out 5 days a week from Blanchardstown.

ninebeanrows · 05-08-2013 07:23PM

Going to be a lot of angry people in Dublin tomorrow.

And any initial slight sympathy for the Drivers will quickly wane.

They can expect an extremely angry clientele if the strike drags on.

knickerbocker · 05-08-2013 07:24PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Well if I were using the bus every day, to and from work, It'd cost 220 just in taxi's going in and out 5 days a week from Blanchardstown.

I'll drive you in and out for €188 a week

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 07:25PM

end of the road wrote: »

which can't be allowed to happen at all costs as it would mean less or no service on some routes, higher fairs, higher subsidies, and more. dublin bus is the best were going to get and while it has problems, to privatise/de-regulate the bus market would be bad for many routes in this country as no privates are going to take on the vital PSO routes as they won't make any money, scrapping these routes is also not an option.

Rubbish.
Private companies have been campaiging to end the parasitic monopoly of CIE for years.
They are willing to tender for bundles of routes, including loss making ones, with the same subsidy as CIE currently recieve.

05-08-2013 07:25PM

So can we use the bus lanes tomorrow?

devnull · 05-08-2013 07:25PM

end of the road wrote: »

which can't be allowed to happen at all costs as it would mean less or no service on some routes, higher fairs, higher subsidies, and more. dublin bus is the best were going to get and while it has problems, to privatise/de-regulate the bus market would be bad for many routes in this country as no privates are going to take on the vital PSO routes as they won't make any money, scrapping these routes is also not an option.

But if it's properly regulated and tendered out for there is no way it can happen as you describe, since it's not a free for all.

Monopolies are bad for consumers and what we have now is one.

and more. dublin bus is the best were going to get

So what you're saying is that Dublin Bus is very efficient and there is no waste from top to bottom?

The current union argument seems to be that management are vastly overpaid and there are too many staff on upper grades who are getting paid to do little, but your argument is that actually nobody can do it cheaper, which means there is no waste, since if there was it would be possible to operate the service cheaper if such waste was flushed out.

mikemac1 · 05-08-2013 07:26PM

Paid 1,315 for an annual DB & Luas ticket. Bought through my employer so I can't say for sure how much tax I got off it

If this drags on for a few more days I still have no chance of a refund from Dublin Bus

therewillbe · 05-08-2013 07:28PM

100% Support.

Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

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