The Government's attitude

Eponymous · 02-08-2013 01:47PM

Dunno... This guy's twitter feed is quite ranty...

I'm looking forward to reading this quys tweets about the incompetence in the Government's central IT department.

I especially like his bio on Twitter: "I just love the why, what and how of new technology and specifically ICT, and how it can make our lives better". Doesn't really seem consistent with clinging desparately to a legacy OS like XP. His rationale that bigger organisations than the gov't still have XP is hardly a good enough excuse not to migrate.

Ultimately he'll just get in Deloitte or PWC or someone and they'll be paid a princely sum to tell him whatever he wants to hear. Same as always for ICT in the public sector.

howamidifferent · 02-08-2013 01:48PM

minotour wrote: »

Agree, they should move to Linux altogether which it wouldnt surprise if this new chap is considering it.

Hahahahahahahahahaha....joe blogs in PS/CS being asked to use Linux as a desktop OS? hahahahahahahaha.......Stop! I'm hurting here... :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D:D:D:D:P:P:P

The Backwards Man · 02-08-2013 01:48PM

My name is URL wrote: »

In 2011 usage for XP was around 40%. It's dropped massively since then to around 15%

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

They're not bluffing when they say that support will end.. that's just a basic support lifecycle. It's not in their interest to invest time and money on a system that fewer and fewer people use. And they want to progress anyway.. not enable users to operate on outdated systems.

37% of the Desktop market.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=174

donegal_road · 02-08-2013 01:52PM

shane7218 wrote: »

The entire PS uses XP. Considering citizen records and other sensitive data is stored on machines using XP and Windows server 2003 its ridiculous.

the household charge database, septic tank database, tv license database... God forbid any of this information was deleted

minotour · 02-08-2013 01:52PM

Eponymous wrote: »

Dunno... This guy's twitter feed is quite ranty...

I'm looking forward to reading this quys tweets about the incompetence in the Government's central IT department.

I especially like his bio on Twitter: "I just love the why, what and how of new technology and specifically ICT, and how it can make our lives better". Doesn't really seem consistent with clinging desparately to a legacy OS like XP. His rationale that bigger organisations than the gov't still have XP is hardly a good enough excuse not to migrate.

Ultimately he'll just get in Deloitte or PWC or someone and they'll be paid a princely sum to tell him whatever he wants to hear. Same as always for ICT in the public sector.

It pains me to agree with you here.

I remember looking into him when he was appointed and like Palpatine i thought "ill watch your career with great interest". Looks like he is off to a good start.

In terms of his reasons, he is saying that they will not end support for XP as there are others out there with it. Not that he wont migrate for that reason, in fact it appears the migration is ongoing but unlikely to be complete in time.

Regardless, its good to see someone standing up to these companies. He has a fair bit of work to do though with limited budget.

shane7218 · 02-08-2013 01:56PM

minotour wrote: »

It pains me to agree with you here.

I remember looking into him when he was appointed and like Palpatine i thought "ill watch your career with great interest". Looks like he is off to a good start.

In terms of his reasons, he is saying that they will not end support for XP as there are others out there with it. Not that he wont migrate for that reason, in fact it appears the migration is ongoing but unlikely to be complete in time.

Regardless, its good to see someone standing up to these companies. He has a fair bit of work to do though with limited budget.

Standing up to them

Why??? because they want to end support for a 12 year old OS so they don't have to create updates for it and move on to new projects. The government knew this date was coming well in advance.

Nemeses · 02-08-2013 01:57PM

minotour wrote: »

Regardless, its good to see someone standing up to these companies.

I don't think you get the concept of technology, software and how protocols do have to change and advance.

XP should have been buried a long time ago

minotour · 02-08-2013 01:58PM

howamidifferent wrote: »

Hahahahahahahahahaha....joe blogs in PS/CS being asked to use Linux as a desktop OS? hahahahahahahaha.......Stop! I'm hurting here... :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D:D:D:D:P:P:P

never intended to hurt you..........but im glad i did.

All they need are mail, word processing and spreadsheet packages. The servers stay under the covers. And if they still cant manage then you fire their assess and find someone who can. ignorance is no excuse for lack of efficiency.

Sofiztikated · 02-08-2013 01:59PM

minotour wrote: »

never intended to hurt you..........but im glad i did.

All they need are mail, word processing and spreadsheet packages. The servers stay under the covers. And if they still cant manage then you fire their assess and find someone who can. ignorance is no excuse for lack of efficiency.

Are you familiar with our civil service? Or Irish people in general?

shane7218 · 02-08-2013 01:59PM

minotour wrote: »

never intended to hurt you..........but im glad i did.

All they need are mail, word processing and spreadsheet packages. The servers stay under the covers. And if they still cant manage then you fire their assess and find someone who can. ignorance is no excuse for lack of efficiency.

People don't like change and are used to Office and Windows. Changing to linux would decrease productivity not increase it.

Menas · 02-08-2013 02:00PM

XP support is stopping? The horror.

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k

minotour · 02-08-2013 02:01PM

Nemeses wrote: »

I don't think you get the concept of technology, software and how protocols do have to change and advance.

XP should have been buried a long time ago

I shouldnt bite here but i cant help myself. In my 20 years in IT I think i am starting to get its "concept" and "protocols" but please elaborate.

<sent from my still singing beautifully XP machine>

Uriel. · 02-08-2013 02:02PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Misguided gobshìte. I truly have to wonder who advises these people, and then even worse lets them out in public to spout such arrogant waffle.

He's not a civil servant or a politician.

Judging by his background he's no fool in IT matters

For the time being I'll put more weight on his opinion than anyone on this website

Ray Palmer · 02-08-2013 02:02PM

Eponymous wrote: »

Ultimately he'll just get in Deloitte or PWC or someone and they'll be paid a princely sum to tell him whatever he wants to hear. Same as always for ICT in the public sector.

I am currently in a government department and there are very few XP machines about. They are also planned to be upgraded anyway. I don't think PWC do IT services.

Either way they don't use consulting firms for such things that is the internal IT department.

So basically you don't know what you are talking about.

kylith · 02-08-2013 02:03PM

Phoebas wrote: »

XP is a pretty decent OS. That's probably why loads of companies don't feel the need to move off it quite yet.

Which is probably why MS plans to shut off support; to force people to upgrade to one of the newer, shíttier OSs.

minotour · 02-08-2013 02:05PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I am currently in a government department and there are very few XP machines about. They are also planned to be upgraded anyway. I don't think PWC do IT services.

Either way they don't use consulting firms for such things that is the internal IT department.

So basically you don't know what you are talking about.

AHEM - under the strict guidance of Accenture who are adhering to a budget devised by PWC/DEloitte etc etc etc....

Nemeses · 02-08-2013 02:05PM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k

Lol, Hows that working out for you?

Sent from MS-DOS 3.31

EyeSight · 02-08-2013 02:08PM

kylith wrote: »

Which is probably why MS plans to shut off support; to force people to upgrade to one of the newer, shíttier OSs.

you don't know what you're talking about. If anything Microsoft offers the longest support. Most Linux systems are free but even they upgrade every 6 months

When XP came out MS said they would support it for X years. i think they increased it to 12 later on. The OS is old, protocols change, hardware changes and new security risks get found every day. At some point XP becomes unpatchable

shane7218 · 02-08-2013 02:08PM

minotour wrote: »

I shouldnt bite here but i cant help myself. In my 20 years in IT I think i am starting to get its "concept" and "protocols" but please elaborate.

<sent from my still singing beautifully XP machine>

Windows 7 and 8 have bitlocker, more resource friendly, compatible with all software, 64bit standard, improved group policy, hugely improved windows firewall I could go on .....

Menas · 02-08-2013 02:08PM

Nemeses wrote: »

Lol, Hows that working out for you?

Sent from MS-DOS 3.31

Go away out of that with your fancy pants MS DOS.
Yuppie show off.

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k

Sofiztikated · 02-08-2013 02:10PM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Go away out of that with your fancy pants MS DOS.
Yuppie show off.

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k

Be husht you.

Sent from my Cave Painting

Phoebas · 02-08-2013 02:11PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Be husht you.

Sent from my Cave Painting

Pfffft.

Sent from my fossilised remains.

RDM_83 again · 02-08-2013 02:14PM

Is there anything to stop a 3rd party offering support? at a price obviously. In the industry such as chemical and pharma isn't there still extensive use of legacy systems in industry

My name is URL · 02-08-2013 02:14PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

37% of the Desktop market.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=174

There's no way in hell it's that high. According to StatCounter it's closer to 20%, so I'll assume it somewhere in between.

Regardless of that, it doesn't matter how many people are using it. MS will eventually stop providing support and updates. It's not in their interest not to do so.

Anyway, basing the decision not to upgrade on how many others still haven't upgraded, is piss poor logic, frankly. It might be fair enough if you're talking about your own dusty computer at home which is rarely used... not the electronic infrastructure which the running of a nation depends heavily on.

Support for XP will cease in April next year... it's hugely naive and somewhat arrogant for the man to assume that a massive corporation like MS will cave into pressure from a handful of fools who simply refuse to modernise.

Ray Palmer · 02-08-2013 02:15PM

minotour wrote: »

AHEM - under the strict guidance of Accenture who are adhering to a budget devised by PWC/DEloitte etc etc etc....

According to who? Accenture are in no way involved with OS upgrades here. PWC/Deloitte are never in charge of government budgets that I have ever heard of. Enlighten me as it goes against all my experience and I am sitting in a government IT office.

minotour · 02-08-2013 02:15PM

shane7218 wrote: »

Windows 7 and 8 have bitlocker, more resource friendly, compatible with all software, 64bit standard, improved group policy, hugely improved windows firewall I could go on .....

Not debating the benefits of the newer O/s, that would be silly (and enjoyable i admit). We are talking about the likelihood of MS extending support as per our new CIOs suggestion that they will despite fervent protests from MS.

The key point here is that we have a guy who is confident enough in his field to take them on and that fact has to be appreciated regardless of how it actually plays out in the end.

Phoebas · 02-08-2013 02:17PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Is there anything to stop a 3rd party offering support? at a price obviously. In the industry such as chemical and pharma isn't there still extensive use of legacy systems in industry

Not really, aside from consulting on ways to mitigate risk. XP is closed source, so no-one but MS have access to it (or the right to make changes to it).

minotour · 02-08-2013 02:17PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Is there anything to stop a 3rd party offering support? at a price obviously. In the industry such as chemical and pharma isn't there still extensive use of legacy systems in industry

Access to the source code would be one of many issues they would face. Would be difficlt to monetise also.

minotour · 02-08-2013 02:19PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

According to who? Accenture are in no way involved with OS upgrades here. PWC/Deloitte are never in charge of government budgets that I have ever heard of. Enlighten me as it goes against all my experience and I am sitting in a government IT office.

Its not my place to educzte you on the functions of government. you seem to be taking this very personally, you shouldnt. How about you give us your opinions on the new CIO, have you seen him in action?

ScumLord · 02-08-2013 02:21PM

minotour wrote: »

ehhh, I agree with Mccluggage or whatever his name is, fair play to him for not pandering to the MS threats. Imagine how costly a switchover is, id rather we did it on our own terms and not theirs.

It's not a treat, it's simply Microsoft doing what they said they'd always do and what they've always done with redundant software to date. It shouldn't cost a fortune either, it probably will but it shouldn't considering the bulk discounts the government would get and the fact it's in a network environment. It's not like they have to go around and install 8 on each computer individually.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

XP still has 40% of the market worldwide. Microsoft won't turn off support until that figure comes down significantly, they're too cute to shoot themselves in the foot like that. McCluggage is right.

Where is that 40% market share though? If it's not in the western democracies then Microsoft isn't going to waste time on them.

Eponymous wrote: »

I especially like his bio on Twitter: "I just love the why, what and how of new technology and specifically ICT, and how it can make our lives better".

I would have some faith in him if he didn't specifically like the most general term for networked computers you can use.

The Government's attitude

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