The Government's attitude

shane7218

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/governments-information-officer-dismisses-microsoft-warning-over-vulnerable-computers-29465387.html

I think this really shows the governments "be grand" attitude.

Nemeses

I doubt MS will extend that deadline.. 12 years support and rolling? Not a chance!

XPs time is well and truly over ... and so is this government..


Some people are so naive ...

shane7218

Nemeses wrote: »

I doubt MS will extend that deadline.. 12 years support and rolling? Not a chance!

XPs time is well and truly over ... and so is this government..


Some people are so naive ...

Why should they to please a government who's lack of knowledge of IT is baffling. Look at the SUSI grant system, CAO, and most government sites still look like they were made in the 90's

Nemeses

shane7218 wrote: »

Why should they to please a government who's lack of knowledge of IT is baffling. Look at the SUSI grant system, CAO, and most government sites still look like they were made in the 90's

I was not suggesting Microsoft to continue support for XP.

XP's support should have been killed off years ago!


I'm just annoyed by the government ignoring advice.. you know, from the company that developed the fk'ing software..

Idiots.

shane7218

Nemeses wrote: »

I was not suggesting Microsoft to continue support for XP.

XP's support should have been killed off years ago!


I'm just annoyed by the government ignoring advice.. you know, from the company that developed the fk'ing software..

Idiots.

I know you weren't my wording of the post was bad That's exactly my point Microsoft makes the OS and here's the little Irish government coming along and telling them they wont drop support. :rolleyes:

rolliepoley

A dead beat government working on a dead beat system.

:rolleyes:

howamidifferent

Probably keeping it because the public service people would want cash or pay rises to retrain for the new OS as a change in work practices or productivity benefits...

Phoebas

Nemeses wrote: »

I'm just annoyed by the government ignoring advice.. you know, from the company that developed the fk'ing software..

They're hardly ignoring it - they just don't accept it.

Obviously MS would love the millions of Euro in new licence sales, but I'm not sure the taxpayer feels the same way.

EyeSight

just to point out, this deadline was flagged years ago. MS didn't suddenly surprise the government.
There's not a chance they will continue support.

Phoebas

rolliepoley wrote: »

A dead beat government working on a dead beat system.

:rolleyes:

XP is a pretty decent OS. That's probably why loads of companies don't feel the need to move off it quite yet.

shane7218

Phoebas wrote: »

XP is a pretty decent OS. That's probably why loads of companies don't feel the need to move off it quite yet.

Most companies have migrated already to windows 7 and 8 but they knew this was coming years ago

My name is URL

“You’d have to ask whether Microsoft really will turn off their support,”

Absolute fool... what does he think, companies are obliged to pander to idiots who refuse to modernise their systems? And he's the guy in charge of IT for the government?! Jesus wept...

Sofiztikated

What....?

Microsoft: Lads, we're not supporting XP any more, you could be subject to hackers and viruses.
Gubbernmint: Wha? Shure, it'll be grand like.
Microsoft: No, seriously, I'm guessing you have secure documents and the like that you don't want people to access?
Gubbernmint: Yeah, but it'll be grand like.
Microsoft: Right. Seriously though. It's a good idea to upgrade.
Gubbernmint: Ah, shure, it works alright at the moment, it'll do.

Who is letting dinosaurs be in charge of **** like this?

Mr Benevolent

Bill McCluggage

Hah, what a great name for a gigolo.

minotour

ehhh, I agree with Mccluggage or whatever his name is, fair play to him for not pandering to the MS threats. Imagine how costly a switchover is, id rather we did it on our own terms and not theirs. He can haul in any of the top brass from MS anytime he wants, he will get his way too and rightly so.

Plus the UK are in far worse shape than us in this regard, try selling a web app to the home office, you are forced to support IE 6 for **** sake. They will be having words with MS too and they wont be pleasent.

The Backwards Man

XP still has 40% of the market worldwide. Microsoft won't turn off support until that figure comes down significantly, they're too cute to shoot themselves in the foot like that. McCluggage is right.

shane7218

The Backwards Man wrote: »

XP still has 40% of the market worldwide. Microsoft won't turn off support until that figure comes down significantly, they're too cute to shoot themselves in the foot like that. McCluggage is right.

They will terminate support and once they do that market share wont be long about coming down and windows 7 and 8 climbing more

rolliepoley

Phoebas wrote: »

XP is a pretty decent OS. That's probably why loads of companies don't feel the need to move off it quite yet.

Did they not stop the updates for xp a few years ago.?

Ray Palmer

There will not be a massive risk if they don't upgrade. The firewalls on the network will stop it coming through. XP is perfectly valid to be still used. It is just a push by Microsoft to generate money on licences. Upgrades by Microsoft are becoming increasingly pointless with features nobody really uses.

jester77

XP :eek:

lol, government still living in the past!

shane7218

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There will not be a massive risk if they don't upgrade. The firewalls on the network will stop it coming through. XP is perfectly valid to be still used. It is just a push by Microsoft to generate money on licences. Upgrades by Microsoft are becoming increasingly pointless with features nobody really uses.

There is a huge difference in features between XP and 7. That still wont stop web exploits and such coming through browsers

Phoebas

shane7218 wrote: »

Most companies have migrated already to windows 7 and 8 but they knew this was coming years ago

There's a Gartner report that says that over 15% of medium and large companies will still be using it after its sunset.

The state should be moving off it, but given that we're effectively bankrupt, I'd say its a difficult ask for an IT Manager in the public service in charge of a non critical system running XP to get a budget for an upgrade.

Phoebas

rolliepoley wrote: »

Did they not stop the updates for xp a few years ago.?

Security patches are still rolled out.

shane7218

Phoebas wrote: »

There's a Gartner report that says that over 15% of medium and large companies will still be using it after its sunset.

The state should be moving off it, but given that we're effectively bankrupt, I'd say its a difficult ask for an IT Manager in the public service in charge of a non critical system running XP to get a budget for an upgrade.

The entire PS uses XP. Considering citizen records and other sensitive data is stored on machines using XP and Windows server 2003 its ridiculous.

Czarcasm

"You’d have to ask whether Microsoft really will turn off their support,” said Mr McCluggage. “There are organisations larger than us [in government] that won’t be fully switched over by then. So the question is whether they mean what they say"

Misguided gobshìte. I truly have to wonder who advises these people, and then even worse lets them out in public to spout such arrogant waffle.

My name is URL

The Backwards Man wrote: »

XP still has 40% of the market worldwide. Microsoft won't turn off support until that figure comes down significantly, they're too cute to shoot themselves in the foot like that. McCluggage is right.

In 2011 usage for XP was around 40%. It's dropped massively since then to around 15%

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

They're not bluffing when they say that support will end.. that's just a basic support lifecycle. It's not in their interest to invest time and money on a system that fewer and fewer people use. And they want to progress anyway.. not enable users to operate on outdated systems.

minotour

shane7218 wrote: »

The entire PS uses XP. Considering citizen records and other sensitive data is stored on machines using XP and Windows server 2003 its ridiculous.

Agree, they should move to Linux altogether which it wouldnt surprise if this new chap is considering it.

Phoebas

Sofiztikated wrote: »

What....?

Microsoft: Lads, we're not supporting XP any more, you could be subject to hackers and viruses.
Gubbernmint: Wha? Shure, it'll be grand like.
Microsoft: No, seriously, I'm guessing you have secure documents and the like that you don't want people to access?
Gubbernmint: Yeah, but it'll be grand like.
Microsoft: Right. Seriously though. It's a good idea to upgrade.
Gubbernmint: Ah, shure, it works alright at the moment, it'll do.

Who is letting dinosaurs be in charge of **** like this?

Or...

IT Manager: I need €20m to upgrade my non critical system to Windows 7.
Government: No problem. I'll just need to shut down a hospital ward or two.

Sofiztikated

rolliepoley wrote: »

Did they not stop the updates for xp a few years ago.?

We still use in it work, and still get updates.

We'll be moving to 7 soon (how soon is soon, I don't know.)

What hinders us is the fact that we use browser based software. Doesn't work on new browsers. Doesn't work on older browsers. Fúcked if it'll work on anything other than IE. It's a royal pain in the arse. That and getting our Financial Controller to ok it. She is of the view point that "It works fine now, why do we need to spend money to change!"

To upgrade our whole system, your talking Win licences for approx 30 computers (in fact probably 30 new machines), plus licences for our browser based ****, interfaces, servers, etc.

I'm going to guess Gubbernmint is the same.

rolliepoley

Phoebas wrote: »

Security patches are still rolled out.

Ah service pack 3.

shane7218

minotour wrote: »

Agree, they should move to Linux altogether which it wouldnt surprise if this new chap is considering it.

That would be madness to do. Despite the huge compatibility issues that would appear imagine trying to train users how to operate it. Will not happen although this is Ireland so you never know

Eponymous

Dunno... This guy's twitter feed is quite ranty...

I'm looking forward to reading this quys tweets about the incompetence in the Government's central IT department.

I especially like his bio on Twitter: "I just love the why, what and how of new technology and specifically ICT, and how it can make our lives better". Doesn't really seem consistent with clinging desparately to a legacy OS like XP. His rationale that bigger organisations than the gov't still have XP is hardly a good enough excuse not to migrate.

Ultimately he'll just get in Deloitte or PWC or someone and they'll be paid a princely sum to tell him whatever he wants to hear. Same as always for ICT in the public sector.

howamidifferent

minotour wrote: »

Agree, they should move to Linux altogether which it wouldnt surprise if this new chap is considering it.

Hahahahahahahahahaha....joe blogs in PS/CS being asked to use Linux as a desktop OS? hahahahahahahaha.......Stop! I'm hurting here... :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D:D:D:D:P:P:P

The Backwards Man

My name is URL wrote: »

In 2011 usage for XP was around 40%. It's dropped massively since then to around 15%

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

They're not bluffing when they say that support will end.. that's just a basic support lifecycle. It's not in their interest to invest time and money on a system that fewer and fewer people use. And they want to progress anyway.. not enable users to operate on outdated systems.

37% of the Desktop market.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=174

donegal_road

shane7218 wrote: »

The entire PS uses XP. Considering citizen records and other sensitive data is stored on machines using XP and Windows server 2003 its ridiculous.

the household charge database, septic tank database, tv license database... God forbid any of this information was deleted

minotour

Eponymous wrote: »

Dunno... This guy's twitter feed is quite ranty...

I'm looking forward to reading this quys tweets about the incompetence in the Government's central IT department.

I especially like his bio on Twitter: "I just love the why, what and how of new technology and specifically ICT, and how it can make our lives better". Doesn't really seem consistent with clinging desparately to a legacy OS like XP. His rationale that bigger organisations than the gov't still have XP is hardly a good enough excuse not to migrate.

Ultimately he'll just get in Deloitte or PWC or someone and they'll be paid a princely sum to tell him whatever he wants to hear. Same as always for ICT in the public sector.

It pains me to agree with you here.

I remember looking into him when he was appointed and like Palpatine i thought "ill watch your career with great interest". Looks like he is off to a good start.

In terms of his reasons, he is saying that they will not end support for XP as there are others out there with it. Not that he wont migrate for that reason, in fact it appears the migration is ongoing but unlikely to be complete in time.

Regardless, its good to see someone standing up to these companies. He has a fair bit of work to do though with limited budget.

shane7218

minotour wrote: »

It pains me to agree with you here.

I remember looking into him when he was appointed and like Palpatine i thought "ill watch your career with great interest". Looks like he is off to a good start.

In terms of his reasons, he is saying that they will not end support for XP as there are others out there with it. Not that he wont migrate for that reason, in fact it appears the migration is ongoing but unlikely to be complete in time.

Regardless, its good to see someone standing up to these companies. He has a fair bit of work to do though with limited budget.

Standing up to them Why??? because they want to end support for a 12 year old OS so they don't have to create updates for it and move on to new projects. The government knew this date was coming well in advance.

Nemeses

minotour wrote: »

Regardless, its good to see someone standing up to these companies.

I don't think you get the concept of technology, software and how protocols do have to change and advance.

XP should have been buried a long time ago

minotour

howamidifferent wrote: »

Hahahahahahahahahaha....joe blogs in PS/CS being asked to use Linux as a desktop OS? hahahahahahahaha.......Stop! I'm hurting here... :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D:D:D:D:P:P:P

never intended to hurt you..........but im glad i did.

All they need are mail, word processing and spreadsheet packages. The servers stay under the covers. And if they still cant manage then you fire their assess and find someone who can. ignorance is no excuse for lack of efficiency.

Sofiztikated

minotour wrote: »

never intended to hurt you..........but im glad i did.

All they need are mail, word processing and spreadsheet packages. The servers stay under the covers. And if they still cant manage then you fire their assess and find someone who can. ignorance is no excuse for lack of efficiency.

Are you familiar with our civil service? Or Irish people in general?

shane7218

minotour wrote: »

never intended to hurt you..........but im glad i did.

All they need are mail, word processing and spreadsheet packages. The servers stay under the covers. And if they still cant manage then you fire their assess and find someone who can. ignorance is no excuse for lack of efficiency.

People don't like change and are used to Office and Windows. Changing to linux would decrease productivity not increase it.

Menas

XP support is stopping? The horror.

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k

minotour

Nemeses wrote: »

I don't think you get the concept of technology, software and how protocols do have to change and advance.

XP should have been buried a long time ago

I shouldnt bite here but i cant help myself. In my 20 years in IT I think i am starting to get its "concept" and "protocols" but please elaborate.


<sent from my still singing beautifully XP machine>

Uriel.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Misguided gobshìte. I truly have to wonder who advises these people, and then even worse lets them out in public to spout such arrogant waffle.

He's not a civil servant or a politician.

Judging by his background he's no fool in IT matters

For the time being I'll put more weight on his opinion than anyone on this website

Ray Palmer

Eponymous wrote: »

Ultimately he'll just get in Deloitte or PWC or someone and they'll be paid a princely sum to tell him whatever he wants to hear. Same as always for ICT in the public sector.

I am currently in a government department and there are very few XP machines about. They are also planned to be upgraded anyway. I don't think PWC do IT services.

Either way they don't use consulting firms for such things that is the internal IT department.

So basically you don't know what you are talking about.

kylith

Phoebas wrote: »

XP is a pretty decent OS. That's probably why loads of companies don't feel the need to move off it quite yet.

Which is probably why MS plans to shut off support; to force people to upgrade to one of the newer, shíttier OSs.

minotour

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I am currently in a government department and there are very few XP machines about. They are also planned to be upgraded anyway. I don't think PWC do IT services.

Either way they don't use consulting firms for such things that is the internal IT department.

So basically you don't know what you are talking about.

AHEM - under the strict guidance of Accenture who are adhering to a budget devised by PWC/DEloitte etc etc etc....

Nemeses

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k

Lol, Hows that working out for you?


Sent from MS-DOS 3.31

EyeSight

kylith wrote: »

Which is probably why MS plans to shut off support; to force people to upgrade to one of the newer, shíttier OSs.

you don't know what you're talking about. If anything Microsoft offers the longest support. Most Linux systems are free but even they upgrade every 6 months

When XP came out MS said they would support it for X years. i think they increased it to 12 later on. The OS is old, protocols change, hardware changes and new security risks get found every day. At some point XP becomes unpatchable

shane7218

minotour wrote: »

I shouldnt bite here but i cant help myself. In my 20 years in IT I think i am starting to get its "concept" and "protocols" but please elaborate.


<sent from my still singing beautifully XP machine>

Windows 7 and 8 have bitlocker, more resource friendly, compatible with all software, 64bit standard, improved group policy, hugely improved windows firewall I could go on .....

Menas

Nemeses wrote: »

Lol, Hows that working out for you?


Sent from MS-DOS 3.31

Go away out of that with your fancy pants MS DOS.
Yuppie show off.

Sent from my Sinclair Zx Spectrum 16k